I could never understand why there are only the two types of clothing, conforming and dynamic.  It seems there could be a type of clothing that simply maintains its fit as the body is posed.  I suppose there would have to be a lot of vertex level checking to do this, but I don't understand why form fitting clothing has to have so much poke-through.  Just thinking that some kind of collision detection to keep the clothing mesh from intersecting the body mesh would be needed, but without soft-bodies many poses actually require mesh intersection. 

Maybe there could be some way of doing a depth sort of the body and clothing meshes; if most of a mesh is in front of another mesh, the mesh poking through would simply not be drawn. 

Well, conforming clothing is a hack based off of a bug found in P4; it was never intended, planned, or programmed. It just worked, and the community ran with it. Outside the poserverse, the usual method for a dressed character is to have the exposed bodyparts welded into a standalone mesh for the dressed bodyparts. Saves on polygon budget, and pokethrough never happens as there is nothing there -to- poke through.

The kind of simulation you're thinking of would be computationally intense. Unless you could narrowly specify collision check zones, you would be running at least a per-polygon collision test between whatever the clothing item is, and the body part(s) being covered. Maybe down to a per vertex level. Then you would have to have some kind of dynamic displacement process to adjust the various parts. And it would have to affect both figures; tight clothing binds, and can deform the body. At the very least it would bar anyone without a strong computer from the arena, and depending on how things had to be MacGuyvered into the current Poser system, it might require a separate simulation run. 

Quote - jiggly breasts aren't the top things i'd like to find in next poser. not even jiggly testicals.

bwahahaa :)

No body tried the "Create Wind Force" button on breasts yet???

For the jugs that flap in the wind? LOL

Laurie

Quote - No body tried the "Create Wind Force" button on breasts yet???

I have used windforce with the hidden cloth spring settings, but I did not experiment with it enough to see if it is any better than other ways. If you had other wind forces in the scene, it would be murder to set up as well.

I have considered using that and using magnets as a stopping point for the effect as well.

There is the order problem as well, it is not so easy to rearrange the order of simulations.

Quote - Well, conforming clothing is a hack based off of a bug found in P4; it was never intended, planned, or programmed. It just worked, and the community ran with it. Outside the poserverse, the usual method for a dressed character is to have the exposed bodyparts welded into a standalone mesh for the dressed bodyparts. Saves on polygon budget, and pokethrough never happens as there is nothing there -to- poke through.

The kind of simulation you're thinking of would be computationally intense. Unless you could narrowly specify collision check zones, you would be running at least a per-polygon collision test between whatever the clothing item is, and the body part(s) being covered. Maybe down to a per vertex level. Then you would have to have some kind of dynamic displacement process to adjust the various parts. And it would have to affect both figures; tight clothing binds, and can deform the body. At the very least it would bar anyone without a strong computer from the arena, and depending on how things had to be MacGuyvered into the current Poser system, it might require a separate simulation run. 

The third method I mentioned seems much less intensive, but would need one sided polygon clothing.

Attached Link: http://youtu.be/CZO7ZD21lu4

This was done using a hybrid of PoserPhysics.  It should animate cloth quite nicely too.

Paul you are going to electrify Poserdom.

Wonderful

::::: Opera :::::

Can the squash be proportioned to maintain a volume?

Can the squash be proportioned to maintain a volume?

Yes, and you can set the speed with which it returns back to it's original shape/volume.

will you release this as an update for poserphysics or will this be a seperate item? and lastly when can we expect to buy this, as this is a must...

will you release this as an update for poserphysics or will this be a seperate item? and lastly when can we expect to buy this, as this is a must...

I haven't really thought about all this yet.  Unfortunately there is an immense amount of effort required to take something from "concept" to "release".  Having people say how much they want these features pushes it up the priority list though :-)  I'll post any progress on the blog and facebook.

thanks face_off.

Loved this thread, was a great read.  

Except for the whole "How dare you complain about a $400.00 program" part.  That part was just ... odd.  I'm always astonished how it is unacceptable to ask the same of virtual products, or to be just as critical, as people are of real goods.  I can say GE washing machines do not have all the features they should and nobody gets offended.  

Anyway...

I am relearning my new version of Poser and was just in the process of a scene where there is a girl  behind a glass door.  I was thinking that it would be neat if I could figure out how to squish her up against the glass, but had no clue where I would even start with that.  Then within an hour I came across this thread.  I am going to try the magnet solution (although I've always had minimal luck with Magnets, I give up too easy).  Well see how that works for someone with no skill in that area at all.  Excited to try though :)

Quote - Loved this thread, was a great read.  

I am relearning my new version of Poser and was just in the process of a scene where there is a girl  behind a glass door.  I was thinking that it would be neat if I could figure out how to squish her up against the glass, but had no clue where I would even start with that.  Then within an hour I came across this thread.  I am going to try the magnet solution (although I've always had minimal luck with Magnets, I give up too easy).  Well see how that works for someone with no skill in that area at all.  Excited to try though :)

You need either the X&M perfect breast morphs (not available here) or Ironman's "squish."  You can have your figure pressing up against the glass quite nicely using either of those tools.  I recall a black and white photo of Jennifer Connoly pressed up against a mirror that reminded me of what you want to do.  It was a beautiful photo, and I'm sure that you can create a beautiful render with that idea.

Quote - Can the squash be proportioned to maintain a volume?

Yes, and you can set the speed with which it returns back to it's original shape/volume.

Looks great for deformations?  Does is also do the gravity/bounce/over/undershoot we have also been talking about?

Do you think it will ever be possible to do zone-based "bouncy" hair?  I was thinking it would be like a magnet zone, but reversed.  You'd want the most bounce at the outer edges with no bounce closest to the scalp.  By bounce I mean the delay between when the mesh starts/stops relative to the parent object (over/undershoot?).

Attached Link: http://youtu.be/B07Q8gKhn8s

Does is also do the gravity/bounce/over/undershoot we have also been talking about?

Gravity - Yes

Bounce - Yes

Over/Undershoot - This is a complex one.  What is overshooting what?  I think you are thinking breast poly's will over/under shoot the chest actor keyframe animation?  How will you define which poly's on the figure are "breast polys"?  This is a similar simulation to a boat's sail.  The sail (soft body) is attached to the mast (ridig body) - however in that case the attachment points are clearly defined.

it is a ball colliding with a wall; but the ball could be anything coming in the magnet zone.

As the ball moves towards the wall he comes under the influence of a magnet and gets sqeezed.

Anyone intersted in the "how did I do it?"

When the ball is outside the magnet zone? It stays a ball.
But when it comes closer to the magnet zone?
Or into the magnet zone? 
It comes under the influence of the magnet.

Quote - Loved this thread, was a great read.  

Except for the whole "How dare you complain about a $400.00 program" part.  That part was just ... odd.  I'm always astonished how it is unacceptable to ask the same of virtual products, or to be just as critical, as people are of real goods.  I can say GE washing machines do not have all the features they should and nobody gets offended.  

And how do this people know about the development cost of a specific feature anyway?

Quote - Does is also do the gravity/bounce/over/undershoot we have also been talking about?

Gravity - Yes

Bounce - Yes

Over/Undershoot - This is a complex one.  What is overshooting what?  I think you are thinking breast poly's will over/under shoot the chest actor keyframe animation?  How will you define which poly's on the figure are "breast polys"?  This is a similar simulation to a boat's sail.  The sail (soft body) is attached to the mast (ridig body) - however in that case the attachment points are clearly defined.

I guess I meant the delay between when a soft area starts moving and when it comes to rest relative to the part moving it.  Imagine a car antenna with a flag on it.  If the car begins moving, inertia holds the flag in place until the limit of the antenna's springiness is met (undershoot).  Then when the car stops, the flag will continue moving forward (overshoot) until finally oscillating to a stop.  The faster the parent's acceleration/deceleration, the more pronounced the elastic effect...

Are you saying there's no way to create a soft group adjacent to a rigid group on the same mesh?

Either way, this seems like a must have for many cool things!

Really, really glad I upgraded to PP2012!  I actually thought about leaving Poser behind.   A year and a half later and I have just finished my first paid Poser gig, started working on one of my most elaborate personal projects in years, and am now seeing the implementation of one of my most long-requested features.  (Not to mention using the most satisfying release of Poser I ever bought!)  Good times!

Quote - [quo te]

Loved this thread, was a great read.  

Except for the whole "How dare you complain about a $400.00 program" part.  That part was just ... odd.  I'm always astonished how it is unacceptable to ask the same of virtual products, or to be just as critical, as people are of real goods.  I can say GE washing machines do not have all the features they should and nobody gets offended.  

And how do this people know about the development cost of a specific feature anyway?

Well of course that's unknowable.  But soft bodies aren't like the moon race, we aren't asking SM to invent them.  They could add them via discussed improvements to the cloth sim.  They could make a special magnet that would "lazy follow" its parent.  They could graft in Bullet like everyone else is doing.  They could just make a springy bone of some kind and call the problem solved... 

At the very least, I'd hope they understand the solutions being presented here and make sure that nothing in the way Poser works or is exposed to developers is slowing these developments.  ( I know that Sparrowhawke felt his jiggles plug-in could be improved if he could hook into a part of Carrara he had no access to.  I don't know if that's the case with Poser or not.)

The number of attempts at addressing the problem indicate to me that this would be a worthwhile addition. 

i have GOT to check out this "bullet" thing i kept hearing about

hey vilters what are your mag zone and base settings in that mesh?  i tried it with two balls.  i put a magnet on one ball, set the zone and base in the exact middle, and then reparented the magnet parts to the other ball.  now i get a cool collision, but i'm having to fiddle like crazy with the zone settings to keep the collision against the ball from deforming too far into it.

that would be freaking awesome to have dynamics that worked that fast : )  just awesome.

we could possibly get there if we could custom shape our magnet zones beyond the simple oval.  maybe like a mesh that has regions of influence within it

The box gets a magnet.
Put the magnet base in the exact middle of the box.

For the magnet set:
xScale and yScale to 150%

For the magnet zone set:

xScale and yScale to 5000%
zScale to 50%

Your box should now look like this:

Now make a wall, I did this with a second box scaled up to X and Y 1000.
Place the wall wherever you want, I put it slightly behind the blue magnet box.

It should look something like this.

It should look like this.

Ready?:
Slide Posette against the wall.

And slide the magzone in- or out until you have the effect you desire.

Play with the settings to fine tune.

Good luck.

All you have to do is set the blue box invisible to the render.

And go ahead.

Voila gentlemen, now you have all the info to play with....

Good luck...

Yes, it is experimenting to get exactly what you want, and you will have to experiment for floors, and so on, but you have the "trick" and the tools now to do so.

Happy posering
Tony

Mmm...  meat cubes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPJ9a1KwEw

I can even splash a ball wide open against the wall....

Only cranked the xScale and the yScale up to 300 on the magnet...
:-)

I'm using pp2012 Does the blue square represent the magnet base?  Mine is a yellow rectangle

I tried using magnets on fingertips but found THAT exercise utterly frustrating!

Follow the tutorial :-)

You start by loading a box from primitives and coloring it blue.

Then load a magnet for this box, and yes that magnets base is yellow.
Then put the magnets base in the middle of the blue primitive box.
 Use a wireframe mode, and a side view to do that.
The box is blue, the magnets base, invisible as it is inside the box is yellow.

Have a nice day.

errr I was exhausted when I was reading through it the first time, must have missed that part.  Sorry : /  Gunna give it a go with actually going step by step with the tutorial right now.  Thank you!

Well I am a little stuck right now but maybe I can get past it.  I just don't see the magnet zone like in your images.  I have it set as visible in the properties but all I see is the circle not the rectangle red lines like your images show.

That was a good tutorial I did learn some things from it.  I found when working with V4 and following it that using one magnet seemed to spread her breasts out from the middle making it appear rather odd.  But if I used the same concept on 2 different magnets - one for each breast I got a pretty good result.

Thank you Vilters!

Ok, I just learned something new!

If you want fingers to deform flesh, follow Vilter's formula and do the following:

1.  Create a primitive ball and scale to 15%

2.  Carefully place the ball on the third digit of a figure's finger.

3.  Parent the ball to the third digit.

4.  Create a magnet on the ball.

5.  Adjust the y, x and z rotations so that the magnet applies force in the same direction as the finger tip.

1. Under the properties tab for the magnet, select "add element to deform" and choose the body part of the figure you want the magnet to influence.

2. Make the ball and magnet invisible.

8.  Move the finger digit and the flesh on the other figure will deform appropriately!

I'd show you, but this would violate the TOS . . .

;)

LOL

super neat i'm gonna do finger magnets too.  parenting the ball to the fingers is the way baby.  then always just load the set as smart props right?

by the way i found the setting that lets loops on a mesh in dynamic cloth slide closer together.  it's the shear setting.  i really really had that one wrong.  from the description of shear, i thought that that would prevent say, a square poly from falling to become say a diamond.  but all you have to do is set shear to .001 (and i'm using fold at 1000) and as the cloth bunches up in the folds of an arm or something, the polys in that area reduce their width so that you get a smoother bend. 

i realize it's not super realistic.  after all we do get folds of cloth on our body's joints.  but in poser, even with fold at 1000 and cloth against cloth and every other restraint i can imagine, i still get the cloth polys rotating aound each other and cutting through each other until the sim fails.  not to mention awful looing renders of cloth polys cutting through each other!  ugh.

so this is working with very tight clothes across joints as long as no joint vertex crosses into the polys on the other side of the joint.  you need to make morphs to prevent that from happening.  or magnets across joints or double magnets if you can get that to work.

for wrinkles in fabric, i recon we can make a few morphs lifting (or scaling in a direction, rather) the loops up a tad where we know the bend occurs, and add them after the sim.

i'm gonna run some more sims tonight and drop some more info later.

i gotta tell ya, the description of shear in the documentation really really lost me there.  i kept fighting with stretch, intuitively believing that there was a negative stretch setting that would tighten the cloth.  that is not the case that i've seen.  stretch only allows cloth to stretch futher or less, but does not aid in contracting the mesh at all, period.  shear seems to be the setting that allows for compression of the mesh, in fact, higher shear seems to prevent the compression of the mesh.  so go for a very low shear to compress mesh.

here's a couple showing this very even mesh.  it's just two of the same tubes, the bottom one is a figure with 2 bones.  top is cloth

neato!

so i think i got that one down. 

now anyone know how to get soft decorated groups to behave?  mine have so far always just floated all over the place to the point i just gave up having them and spent tons of time on workarounds

Quote - so i think i got that one down. 

now anyone know how to get soft decorated groups to behave?  mine have so far always just floated all over the place to the point i just gave up having them and spent tons of time on workarounds

A soft decorated item should NOT be welded to the main cloth and have at least one face that faces the main cloth on the underside. For instance, say you'd like to create a hem. You'd choose a ring of faces of the main cloth in your modeler and do something like a shell extrude. It creates a separate mesh that isn't welded to the other and it has faces that face the item on the underside.

Laurie