So I see and have wishlisted several V4 morph sets by Ironman13 and Meipe.  I have also recently started to play with V4WM.  Will V4WM do pretty much the same body-part morphs as the morph sets, or do the morph sets add a different type and style of morph?  I'd prefer not to duplicate efforts between V4WM and the morph sets, but I am amazed by the beautiful morphs by Ironman13 and Meipe, and still plan to purchase these sets.  I hope I haven't confused everybody?

Thanks, -Starkdog

There are a few things to consider. 

1.  The morphs give you some control over your final outcome, which is nice if you are fiddler.  Mind you there is nothing stopping anyone with poser pro from fiddling with the Weightmaps either.

2. V4 WM is all about making v4 into a good basic figure. After the conversion she is a much cleaner and leaner figure (No JCMs or magnets etc)  It moves really well and most of the bends are much improved over basic v4 - phantom beat a lot of the ugly out of her!  

That being said there are some areas that some find unsatisfactory.  I think a lot of people have said that the elbows could benefit from a morph to give them a more natural look when bent.  Unfortunately none of those folks has seen fit to contribute such a morph.  

1. Weightmapping is going to primarily give you smoother bends, but its not really a sculpting tool so the morphs are able to add more detail and sculpting in certain areas.

2. V4WM does require clothing to undergo a simple conversion utility (Poser Place's Outfitter).  I am unsure if any of the fix morphs adjust the mesh far enough to cause clothing to need to be adjusted.

3. V4WM is free!!  I'm not sure what your final Bill would be for all the fix morphs on the market, nor how many you would need to be satisfied.

Thats not exhaustive and I'll admit to not being terribly familiar with the ins and outs of the morph sets so please nobody take offense If I'm incorrect on anything.

Hope it helps

I am watching this thread to see the answers.  Thank you, meatSim - your list is more than I would have guessed. :)

meatSim,

That is a great breakdown!  I will think it over a bit more, but I still plan to buy the Meipe morph bundle as it covers everything, plus the bundle is on sale.  There are sublties that the morph sets offer, that I didn't see with V4WM.  There's just so much out there, that my eyes are rolling.

Thanks, -Starkdog

Hi! I am a co-creator of the "Perfect" morphs. I'll give my 2 cents without trying to sound like an advertisement. ;)

 Pros of "Perfect" morphs:

• Works automatically on every pose combination. Each fix is actually made up of about 100 separate morphs, compared to other fixes which are a single morph designed for a specific pose (shin bend for example). Add in some twist or side-side on the shin, and the fixed mesh will tear. Not with "Perfect" fixes.

• Not only smoothes the ugly creases/bends, but also re-shapes each body part into a more realistic result.

• Lots of bonuses/extra touches such as adding detail to the soles of V4's feet, a spine detail pose, neck detail, etc.

• Toe movement - which is completely unique, a brand new feature for V4.

• An "Inject All" is coming soon to inject all of the fixes at once.

• Future plans to add a lot of goodies to the Perfect V4 series, including partnerships with other top Renderosity vendors. One of those goodies will be a "squish" product. Check out the last promo of "Perfect Torso". That's a little preview. ;) There will be a big breast variation too.

 Okay sorry, that did sound like an advertisement afterall, LOL! :(

 Here are a couple cons:

 - You will run into issues with clothing. Clothing does not adjust to the new fixed shape. You'll encounter this problem with all morph products though, not only ours. This is where V4WM has the advantage for sure. You can convert clothing to weight-mapped.

• There is an initial set-up of creating a "Perfect V4", which you then load the fixes onto. It's easy to do and there's a step by step video tutorial. But some find it a hassle nonetheless. The "Perfect V4" is the exact same as a normal V4, except she has hundreds of "Perfect" morph channels added to her. Remember the 100 morphs I mentioned? Well V4 only has 50 channels by default, so we had to add more in order to fix her to her full potential.

 Let me know if you have any questions. No hard feelings if you decide to go in a different direction!

Quote - That being said there are some areas that some find unsatisfactory.  I think a lot of people have said that the elbows could benefit from a morph to give them a more natural look when bent.  Unfortunately none of those folks has seen fit to contribute such a morph. 

I know. Terrible. It's sheer cussedness that keeps me from releasing my wonderful V4WM elbow fix for the community!!

If I could fix it myself, I would never have posted about the issue. I would have just fixed it instead.  But it seems that what you're suggesting is, if one lacks the skill to fix a problem, it means that problem does not really exist or should never be mentioned. Moreover, my experience tells me that daring to point out such an issue will likely result in permanent intermittent forum castigation for the awful sin of mentioning that possbily the emperor was missing his left sock.

--

Anyway...

I have all of Meipe/Xameva's fixes except the most recent.  They are more expensive than free, so can't compete on that front, true enough.

But they also fix more issues, and do not require clothing conversion. Yes, you will get poke through with some clothes. This is easy to fix by a combination of making the limbs invisible or using the morph brush.

I've got some of i13's morphs.  I like the squishes and use them from time to time, though I think we would be well served practicing with the morph brush/magnets to reproduce them, if we have the inclination. I prefer Meipe/Xameva for general fixes.

ETA: I don't believe that the Perfect Series and V4WM are necessarily mutually exclusive. Perhaps they can be used together. I've never tried.

ETA: I don't believe that the Perfect Series and V4WM are necessarily mutually exclusive. Perhaps they can be used together. I've never tried.

I can happily confirm that The Perfect Series and V4WM are not mutually exclusive and have been using the two together for many months adding the new ones as they are released.  I have had no real problems and even if there is poke through is small and easily rectified.  Often there is no poke through so long as the clothes have gone through Outfitter first.  The other benefit is that a number of the Perfect Series allows you to adjust the level of the effect, something very useful with some poses. 

Xameva, a quick question:  If we buy the bundle now, will we get the "Inject All" when it is ready?

Thanks,

  ~ Russ

Glad it hlped!  You'll definitly get more detail out of morphs than you will from weightmapping.  Rigging isn't really meant to be used to sculpt with and as mentioned above some of those morphs add some great detail that is a nice addition regardless of the bending.  I imagine that since v4wm and v4 bend completely differently the morphs would not work well with v4wm, but i could be wrong.  It would be great if they, or parts of them would work together because it really would be nice to add some of that detail - I'm a real sucker for nice sculpting

Quote - meatSim,

 

That is a great breakdown!  I will think it over a bit more, but I still plan to buy the Meipe morph bundle as it covers everything, plus the bundle is on sale.  There are sublties that the morph sets offer, that I didn't see with V4WM.  There's just so much out there, that my eyes are rolling.

Thanks, -Starkdog

Quote - If we buy the bundle now, will we get the "Inject All" when it is ready?

 Yes you will. :) Whoever owns all of the V4 fixes will get it free, as well as a bunch of other bonuses.

Quote - > Quote - If we buy the bundle now, will we get the "Inject All" when it is ready?

 Yes you will. :) Whoever owns all of the V4 fixes will get it free, as well as a bunch of other bonuses.

Thanks!  Another question...  I have Gen X and understand I can convert the Gen 4 figures to Genesis.  Does this obviate the need for your fixes?

  ~ Russ 

Quote -   I have Gen X and understand I can convert the Gen 4 figures to Genesis.  Does this obviate the need for your fixes?

 I'm not sure, as I don't use Genesis - it's up to you based on your preference. From what I can tell she bends a lot better than the default V4. I do believe her Booty is still a problem. It also depends how much the bonuses such as neck detail, sole detail, toe movement, etc. are to you, as Genesis doesn't have those. But Genesis can morph into a troll and gorilla. I don't think "Perfect V4" can do that.... yet. ;)

Quote - > Quote -   I have Gen X and understand I can convert the Gen 4 figures to Genesis.  Does this obviate the need for your fixes?

 I'm not sure, as I don't use Genesis - it's up to you based on your preference. From what I can tell she bends a lot better than the default V4. I do believe her Booty is still a problem. It also depends how much the bonuses such as neck detail, sole detail, toe movement, etc. are to you, as Genesis doesn't have those. But Genesis can morph into a troll and gorilla. I don't think "Perfect V4" can do that.... yet. ;)

Yes, I think Perfect V4 is much better than Genesis V4 from an anatomical standpoint.  Genesis' advantage is that it's very easy to fit clothing to it with Daz Studio, and it morphs very nicely into a lot of extreme shapes.  Also, I think the Genesis male is superior to M4 --at the moment--  but I hope that you'll have more fixes for him in the future (even though I realize they would not sell nearly as well as Vicky's).

Quote - > Quote - That being said there are some areas that some find unsatisfactory.  I think a lot of people have said that the elbows could benefit from a morph to give them a more natural look when bent.  Unfortunately none of those folks has seen fit to contribute such a morph. 

I know. Terrible. It's sheer cussedness that keeps me from releasing my wonderful V4WM elbow fix for the community!!

If I could fix it myself, I would never have posted about the issue. I would have just fixed it instead.  But it seems that what you're suggesting is, if one lacks the skill to fix a problem, it means that problem does not really exist or should never be mentioned. Moreover, my experience tells me that daring to point out such an issue will likely result in permanent intermittent forum castigation for the awful sin of mentioning that possbily the emperor was missing his left sock.

 

relax..I wasn't refering to you specifically.  The issue is apparent but out of scope of the WM project which was intentionally JCM free.  Its not a terribly difficult thing to adress and I have no doubt that a number of people in the community who are happily making use of V4WM do have the skill to adress it if they so chose.  I was simply stating that it is unfortunate that no-one has been willing to do so and share it so far.  As for your own hurt feelings that the project leaders didn't decide to expand the scope of the project to suit your likings.. well you will have to come to terms with those on your own.  I dont think that bone is particularly relevant to the discussion at hand.

Personally, I've been eyeing up this product for use with V4WM...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=91105

EDIT: Indeed this thread has reminded me I had it in my wishlist... I've just gone ahead and got it to try out. Will let you know how well it works with V4WM.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - That being said there are some areas that some find unsatisfactory.  I think a lot of people have said that the elbows could benefit from a morph to give them a more natural look when bent.  Unfortunately none of those folks has seen fit to contribute such a morph. 

I know. Terrible. It's sheer cussedness that keeps me from releasing my wonderful V4WM elbow fix for the community!!

If I could fix it myself, I would never have posted about the issue. I would have just fixed it instead.  But it seems that what you're suggesting is, if one lacks the skill to fix a problem, it means that problem does not really exist or should never be mentioned. Moreover, my experience tells me that daring to point out such an issue will likely result in permanent intermittent forum castigation for the awful sin of mentioning that possbily the emperor was missing his left sock.

 

 

relax..I wasn't refering to you specifically.  The issue is apparent but out of scope of the WM project which was intentionally JCM free.  Its not a terribly difficult thing to adress and I have no doubt that a number of people in the community who are happily making use of V4WM do have the skill to adress it if they so chose.  I was simply stating that it is unfortunate that no-one has been willing to do so and share it so far.  As for your own hurt feelings that the project leaders didn't decide to expand the scope of the project to suit your likings.. well you will have to come to terms with those on your own.  I dont think that bone is particularly relevant to the discussion at hand.

My feelings were hardly hurt by Poserplace's project. I don't know any of the people involved. I just happened to try out V4WM on the rousing recommendation of forum members and found a flaw that made it unusable for me.  Upon posting about it, I got accused of being ungrateful and asked why I didn't offer a fix.  I actually thought the passionate intensity of some of the responses was pretty hilarious.

It all depends on the extremity of the pose and whether the scene includes a nude v4 or a clothed v4.

I have all the Perfect morphs except for the hands and the new one. Sometimes they're the ticket, sometimes V4WM is the ticket. As far as the elbows on V4wm, I've fixed that on my own, along with the back and front of the neck, and the forearm above the wrist. And saved the fixes into my cr2.
Bad thing is that neither will work in Carrara, and sometimes it's hard to beat plain old V4, especially when the figure is clothed.

IMO, the best thing about V4WM is that it's scaling is far superior to any of the others.
Mike spent a good amount of time on the scaling, and it shows. Maybe it's not perfect, but it's 80 or 90% there.

Well dang it! I was part of the V4WM crew and I never got to rail and fume at you! Is it too late? :-) Just kidding. Really!

The website has been unavailable to me due to some mysterious DNS issues that seem to be solvable with the right Windows tools-I'm on a Mac.

I use V4-WM only these days-there was a lot of work done to improve the character. Still, it was pointed out that the mesh had several limitations-and certainly not all was perfect-but it was decided to release the final version-it was and is free-and the people doing the most work were getting rather worn

I have some of the Perfect Morphs-and they do look good.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote -

My feelings were hardly hurt by Poserplace's project. I don't know any of the people involved. I just happened to try out V4WM on the rousing recommendation of forum members and found a flaw that made it unusable for me.  Upon posting about it, I got accused of being ungrateful and asked why I didn't offer a fix.  I actually thought the passionate intensity of some of the responses was pretty hilarious.

OH! that is one area that could use this improvement. Please let me know how it works!

There was a V4-WM beta with somewhat better elbows-but it seemed to create other issues.

Quote - Personally, I've been eyeing up this product for use with V4WM...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=91105

EDIT: Indeed this thread has reminded me I had it in my wishlist... I've just gone ahead and got it to try out. Will let you know how well it works with V4WM.

Quote -

 
ETA: I don't believe that the Perfect Series and V4WM are necessarily mutually exclusive. Perhaps they can be used together. I've never tried.

I can happily confirm that The Perfect Series and V4WM are not mutually exclusive and have been using the two together for many months adding the new ones as they are released.  I have had no real problems and even if there is poke through is small and easily rectified.  Often there is no poke through so long as the clothes have gone through Outfitter first.  The other benefit is that a number of the Perfect Series allows you to adjust the level of the effect, something very useful with some poses. 

Yeah, I"m using the toes morph and saved a CR2 of v4WM and the toes together.  I"m planning on getting the neck one - looks amazing and the torso fix for nude renders.

They actually work very well with v4WM and add a lot of functionality.  That being said, V4WM is  a beautiful improvement all on her own - they did amazing stuff with her and these are just icing on the cake.

@Eric Walters:

To get into Poserplace I followed the advice in post #25 in this thread:

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?69088-M4-Weight-Mapped-NEXT./page2

It points to a Google page explaining how to do it. I just added 8.8.4.4 after the two DNS numbers that already were in my list. I'm on a Mac OSX 10.6.8.

Hi !

I tried all,

V4WM good but take too many time to conform clothes.

i13 make my computer full of lags ( Phenom x4 8 Go ).

The better, Perfect series.

Quote - - An "Inject All" is coming soon to inject all of the fixes at once.

Let me know if you have any questions. ...

Any time line for this? When might everything be out?

Thanks

Quote -
Any time line for this? When might everything be out?

 We're working around the clock at the moment. Hoping for sometime late next week.

Xameva, you have done an excellent job on the perfect morphs, I only wish I had all of them at the moment, but soon enough. I also have purchased a few of the squish sets while they are nice I do tend to use the perfect set more. Pretty much starting out v4 with them, using pretty legs, feet, and buttox, I have noticed one thing i recently purchased the i13 breast pack, just giving this info out in case others are having the same problem as I encountered with it. I used that poser breast inj on the custom cr2 which gets made by the pretty legs set and if the two injs are combined and you go to save as the pz3 scene file it shuts down Poser 7. The Daz version works fine in poser and saves the scene no problem. Just a heads up if this problem occurs.

But the pretty sets are amazing you and meipe did awesome on them, and I thank you immesely for them.

Quote - It all depends on the extremity of the pose and whether the scene includes a nude v4 or a clothed v4.

I think this get over looked a lot. If the issue is the shoulders or the elbows and either is covered by the clothes worn by the character...the fixes aren't in the clothes and base character is covered. So the fix really needs to get transfered to the clothes. Now if the skin is exposed the fixes available by several vendors work very well.

In V4WM, certain dresses with helper bones in the skirts or how the vendor set up the zones in the skirt section can drive you (well it did me) crazy trying to sort out to look right if the legs are posed say right leg forward and left leg back like in walking. Based on the design of one dress it didn't convert well to dynamic, but finaly stubborn me figured it out and it worked as a hybrid (below the hip dynamic and above the hip WM).

Not sure there is a clear cut 100 percent works for everything solution yet. But V4 in a string bikini :blink: then pick either a fixers you need or V4WM and have fun. :biggrin:

Coop has hinted in other threads here the people in Watsonville are busy doing something relative to WM'ed characters. Interesting to see what tricks they have up their sleeves (there short sleeved shirts so their elbows are exposed)

I don't use any of thEse products, or the one I'm about to mention.  There's a beautiful bends package over at daz3d.  It uses magnets. Magnet effects easily transfer to the clothes on the figure.  That seems like it may be a worthwhile feature given some of what has been said above.

Quote - I think this get over looked a lot. If the issue is the shoulders or the elbows and either is covered by the clothes worn by the character...the fixes aren't in the clothes and base character is covered. So the fix really needs to get transfered to the clothes. Now if the skin is exposed the fixes available by several vendors work very well.

This is very true.

It's my experience, though, that fixing clothes with magnets or morph brush is a whole lot easier than fixing a body.  Clothes bunch up and fold.  If they're conforming, they aren't going to be "correct" in any real sense. So there's a lot more room for error with those tools. Screw up on the flesh, on the other hand, and tiny errors are instantly noticeable.

ETA: With dynamic, naturally, it's not an issue, and that's my preference, in any case, for clothing that would be deformed by the body. So most of the time the fixes work wonderfully for me.

Xameva. I thought I'd just say that I thought I had the bundle because I had to get it to get the price durring that sale a few weeks ago.  Then the FIX came out and I discover I didn't have them all!  Ahhh!

Anyway.  I was just wondering if there is an order to applying the morph++, the Elites, and The Perfect V4 Complete?  I love the perfect V$.  I finally can pose Vicki without too much fear of the plastic crimped tube look. Oh! and what are all the dialed fixes for?

Is it to fix a part that went wrong?  Oh sure, I have to try them all out and experiment.  It takes forever to try all the permutations.  Later and Thanks.

Quote - I was just wondering if there is an order to applying the morph++, the Elites, and The Perfect V4 Complete?

  Any order should work fine!

Quote - and what are all the dialed fixes for?

 The LowerFix dials are for when you need to blend in the fixes better on certain poses and full body morphs. For example if using GND4, the fixes were not designed for that vastly different than default V4 morph, and the fixes look better at about 70% power on it. Don't get me wrong though, the fixes still work surprisingly well on GND4 is most cases.

 I'd like to also take this message to apologize about the Upgrade product not being free as promised earlier. The "Collect All Fixes and get the Upgrade free!" promotion was not allowed. I spoke too soon. We really wanted to do it, but it was just not possible. (I can't go into details).

We feel really badly about it (we wanted to reward our long-term customers). We added in a couple extra bonuses to the "Upgrade" product to try and make up for it (That breast super-morph could easily sell as a stand-alone product). Sorry again, we promise that the whole package is worth it - it's been a year in the making, no corners were cut, and we didn't release until we were fully satisfied. 

 Some more exciting news: You know how I said clothing is a problem with the fixes? Well, we're working on a solution for that. It's huge news, a game-changer. It won't just work on our fixes, but will fit most clothing to every custom morph (such as GND4). Stay tuned. :)

Thanks much.  And I was just sayin'.  In fact, ya'll are worth every bit of the energy exchange known as money.  I've never had so much fun posing Vicki.  I'm gonna make a series of artist images.

OK, that was just mean. Dangle a carrot like that and run off with a grin. How cruel can you be?

Should I say I'm waiting on pins and needles until this new 'thing' arrives. I'm all for game changing stuff. Especially if it actually does change the game. Whatever it is, I'm sold already!

Quote -  Some more exciting news: You know how I said clothing is a problem with the fixes? Well, we're working on a solution for that. It's huge news, a game-changer. It won't just work on our fixes, but will fit most clothing to every custom morph (such as GND4). Stay tuned. :)