Quote - > Quote - Basically I like Genesis, but not the house it lives in.

Lyrra

Exactly. Even as just an end user.

Very well put. This is how I feel about it too I reckon.

My personal hope for Genesis / DS4 is that Daz will rewrite a version of it as a kind of advanced figure plugin for Poser... or rather bring out a stripped down version of DS4 that can work with or within Poser as a plug-in... somehow.

I've always thought, if they really were serious about Genesis becoming part of CG workflow, for higher end app users, even... e.g. of 3DS Max or Maya, etc, then that's how it should have been done... as a plug-in-able core that can be hooked into Poser, Cinema4d, Carrara, 3DS Max, or whatever, via an adaptable, host-app-specific middle layer.

I kind of wondered if the deeper API integration, that Paolo has negotiated to be put in place by SM, for the forthcoming Reality Studio 3 for Poser, may open up the playing field a little more here.

I appreciate this is almost certainly entirely wishful thinking... and gradual improvements in both the Daz supported CR2 Exporter, on the one side, in tandem with gradual enhancements by SM, to, I don't know, whatever might continue to limit Gen5 in Poser, such as subd or scaling... e.g. probably almost coincidental, convergence... is probably more likely the limit of where its going, relative to Genesis in Poser.

Course, where would us Poser-based Genesis fanciers be without some wishful thinking, eh?

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2855108

Something is bubbling away in the cauldron methinks...

Cheers

tbh, Genesis doesn't appeal to me at all, I prefer my women to be women and my men to be men, ;)

In my opinion, if the same amount of creation time went into making just one figure, male or female, surely it would be time better spent....but I know nothing.....

Quote - tbh, Genesis doesn't appeal to me at all, I prefer my women to be women and my men to be men, ;)

In my opinion, if the same amount of creation time went into making just one figure, male or female, surely it would be time better spent....but I know nothing.....

Yeah, I do think that's a good point, Mystic.

Genesis offers a lot of convenience I guess... and does have some neat tricks.

I do think... and this is just my subjective opinion... that whilst a lot of standalone figures, e.g. Miki3, could be cited as having too much "personality" to be as widely used as she otherwise might, Genesis is, conversely, at risk of being too neutral.

But really that is just down to the quality and range of character morphs being produced I guess. Genesis is arguably more of a blank canvas, as has been stated.

But, from my viewpoint, I think that the "blank canvas" of Genesis should mean that character modellers need to put in more effort and probably, on average, develop greater character modelling skill, to get more diverse characters out of it. In principle, to my primitive oil painter's brain, a blank canvas means more work than a canvas with a "join the dots" or "paint by numbers" sort of outline already drawn on it, ready to follow (or indeed react against).

I think the potential danger of such base neutrality is more blandness, less range and diversity. Just my opinion. But, in my view there is already too much sameness in orbit around V4. Maybe this is down to market demand for slight tweaks of popular core looks though, rather than any other limitation...

...but this is possibly just so much subjective nonsence on my part.

In principle I will certainly still be getting hold of any and all good standalone figures that come out I reckon, e.g. Michelle (already got), Miki4, Tyler, Lucas... within reason... and likely working with them just as much... and I'm generally not averse to putting in effort with WW or whatever to do that.

But still, I'd be more than happy to welcome a possible "Genesis for Poser" to my runtime too and putting that through its paces, for what its worth...

Quote - PLEASE! Don;t use this as an excuse to bash either DAZ OR POSER!

As a poser merchant I am seriously interested in understanding the attraction of Genesis and it's clothing to Poser users. I can readily understand it's attraction in DS, with all of it;s many functions fully available and operational.. it really is a marvelous innovation. However, concidering the difficulty in exporting/importing the figure and it's clothing, and the fact that a great deal of the versatility that makes it so attractive in DAZ Studio is gone when imported into poser, I wonder exactly what about it makes so many people want to do so?

Is there some particular character shape or is it the clothing styles now available for it? Is it something that can be created for the number of figures that are built to work in poser and with poser's native features intact? Is it the shape of the base figure or a certain morph look?

**I'm serious about these questions, since an undersstanding may provide a direction for my own creations. SO PLEASE! If you are viewing this please don;t act negatively and have the thread locked. **

hi there Letterworks...my answer to your question is anatomy...M5 - V5 are more anatomically correct than m4-v4...and to be honest with you M4-V4 have so many wrongs as figures that i spent serious time to liquify and overpaint their "problems"...

im not an average user so anatomy plays a whole deal for me...so are uv texturing....

working in superheroes with m4 and m5 i saw a large difference (had to learn daz studio in 2 days in order to make their promos for the supersuit...)

if someone makes a morph for m4 that correct i will keep using him....

of course it won't be necessary cause i have heard so many good things about he upcoming figures from SM... ;)

Quote - PLEASE! Don;t use this as an excuse to bash either DAZ OR POSER!

As a poser merchant I am seriously interested in understanding the attraction of Genesis and it's clothing to Poser users. I can readily understand it's attraction in DS, with all of it;s many functions fully available and operational.. it really is a marvelous innovation. However, concidering the difficulty in exporting/importing the figure and it's clothing, and the fact that a great deal of the versatility that makes it so attractive in DAZ Studio is gone when imported into poser, I wonder exactly what about it makes so many people want to do so?

Is there some particular character shape or is it the clothing styles now available for it? Is it something that can be created for the number of figures that are built to work in poser and with poser's native features intact? Is it the shape of the base figure or a certain morph look?

**I'm serious about these questions, since an undersstanding may provide a direction for my own creations. SO PLEASE! If you are viewing this please don;t act negatively and have the thread locked. **

To answer your questions about Genesis and it's clothing.  I love the styles/types of  clothing.  I'm not sure why, but there are things coming out now, different styles and everyday type clothing, that weren't available before. 

 Several items I would have purchased in a heartbeat come to mind... Stalker Girl pants & boots, Short Order Cook and the Surgical Gowns. These are just a few, they're not dynamic, just new ideas and outfits that no one produced prior to Genesis.

 I use Poser and can't/won't, use DS4, so those clothing items are not available to me.

 I have to admit, I also like the cool monsters that can be made with Genesis, lol.

Letterworks, I feel that a lot of what is driving this is simple inertia. 

In the past, Daz was the go-to site for figures and clothing for a lot of people. The quality of alternate figures was variable (Apollo Maximus is a much better character for instance - the SM figures however, at that time, were not.), but support for any alternate figure was spotty at best.

Some people feel that having genesis in their runtimes would be easier solution than to use Wardrobe Wizard or Xdresser.  All they are looking for is a 1-click solution.

I don't get the clothing issue - a large portion of genesis clothing appears to be a repeat of Gen4 clothing.  I am now starting to see the same repeats with characters, shoes and hair.  The examples that Cimaira listed are the only new items that I have seen.  Everything else appears to be a repeat or a variation of what has come before.

I know that in my case, I am not interested in cheese and beefcake renders, NVIATWAS renders, or variations of fantasy renders - so the Daz store has been a bust for clothing for a while.

As for what I am looking for - contemporary clothing that could be worn in a business setting.  Most of the contemporary clothing made available for V4 would get Vicky sent home to change.

I would like a good male business suit.  For me the gold standard was the Casablanca Suit for M3 - I haven't seen a business suit to match it yet.  Lots of movement morphs - lots of texture maps for it.  M4 never got a business suit that was it's equal - which is what drove me to using Wardrobe Wizard - now that I have somewhat mastered it, clothing is available for all characters.

Well here's the thing... as I sift thru what's been said here I see 2 different "schools" of thought, so don;t take this as argumentative, just bare with me and see if I'm correct.

There appear to be a school of thought that wants the FUNCTIONS that are found in DAZ Studio. Things like dynamic subdivision, morph mixing, morph following etc. Well frankly this is beyond the scope of the average content creator to fix and should be taken up with some programmers (with Smith Micro?) and left out of thise discussion.

The second school are people that want some of the things that Genesis has, more male support (dlothing and characters), more and varied anatomical morphs for males and females, more creatures (morphs or stand-alone figures?) etc. This is the area of discussion I'm most interested in pursuing at this time, simce it;s something that content creators CAN help in. So I propose we stick to this area and nail down some of the specific areas and steps to reach those areas that can be done with Poser native figures (inluded are the earlier, non-DS only figures from DAZ).

Let;s discuss where Poser usable figures can be improved

Let;s didcuss what clothing might be wanted (keep in mind that there needs to be a viable market for this clothing type, if it;s not going to provide a profit it;s likely not to be made)

Let;s discuss what type of creatures people would like to see made (again keep in mind that Content Creations is driven by sales).

Perhaps it would be a good idea to also include some ideas on how much we would be inclined to PAY for support in these areas, what is an acceptable price for non-beauty queen/king figures, what would you pay for non pinup style clothing styles, and what price point would you concider reasonable for a modeled. rigged and textured non-human figure? Again, program FEATURES that aren;t already included in Poser should be dirrected else where.

I not sure if you are going to get swamped with replies for things that would only sell in small numbers but then I guess if we don't highligght what is wanted we won't know the numbers.

Most of my renders are in the Sci-Fi field and so for me I would be interested in any futuristic clothing.   I know many will say there are lots already but I would be interested in something stylish and just not another twist on slut wear.  Things such as the Ray Suit, Complicated Eve and Liquid Halo spring to mind.

Next choice would be some good fantasy outfits again more with the idea of it being fuctional.  I see so many so-say warrior outfits that leave large portions of the body with no protection at all.  Fine for pin-up work but on a real battlefield they would be dead in minute, if not from enemy action then it would be from exposure.

As to price for me $25- $35 if the outfit was good or was a fantasy outfit that could double for a Sci-Fi outfit with a change of tectures.

Personally I'd really like to see more historically accurate period clothing.

Sets along these lines are good. Renapd's Napoleonic sets are excellent I think, for example.

Some more First World War military, medical staff and civilian clothing would be useful.

Some more 1940s, 50s and 60s everyday civilian clothing would be great.

Sets that have clothes for the whole family, e.g. V4, M4 and K4, would be fantastic.

Period sets that have outfits for role stereotypes would be great; e.g. 1950s Policeman, Banker, Housewife, Workman, Doctor, Nurse, Schoolteacher.

I'd imagine a lot of this variation could be achieved with morphs and mats for a core set of cleverly constructed clothing figures perhaps?

Just throwing some ideas into the mix here... perhaps others will agree on some of them, in which case it would likely be worth someone's time to make these for the market I guess?

Overall, quality and attention to detail is all important really, I'd say, for these sorts of items.

They may well just not be worth a commercial vendor's time to undertake?

On the other hand they may well be, but just on the basis of paying a smaller dividend over a longer timeframe?

Cheers

I look in my runtime and I see that, thanks to Xurge and Luthbel, Mike is amply supplied with quality fantasy and sci fi gear. 

He's missing a lot of modern civilian stuff, though, fortunately, for men, there doesn't need to be nearly as much variation in style as in color, texture, and pattern. The same short sleeved shirt can be a casual Hawaiian shirt or a policeman's uniform.

Me, for modern stuff, I want a working Mike. A doctor, a fireman, a policeman, an airline pilot, delivery boy, chef... you name it. But it seems that one or two outfits could be textured and perhaps morphed to cover a very wide variety of occupations. Accessories could provide the details. And I'll admit right now, my interests may be a little more than mildly salacious: if the outfits had a few of the standard pinup type open/tug morphs, it would be a desirable bonus.

Some of this stuff is already in the Poser marketplace. But for the most part it has those funky joints.

A set of magnets to improve those funky joints on existing clothing... Hmm. I could really go for that.

I think, though, that there's a problem with accepting our word for what we want and what we'd pay for before we've seen the finished products.

I've seen a few creators complaining in the forums that they made what people asked for and didn't see the sales materialize. There are maybe a couple of reasons for that. 1. It's way easier to say you'll spend money you don't have than to actually do it, and 2. Sometimes the finished product isn't quite what you expected. Not sure how you can deal with that. It can't be easy.

Quote - .....

Most of my renders are in the Sci-Fi field and so for me I would be interested in any futuristic clothing.   I know many will say there are lots already but I would be interested in something stylish and just not another twist on slut wear.  Things such as the Ray Suit, Complicated Eve and Liquid Halo spring to mind.

Next choice would be some good fantasy outfits again more with the idea of it being fuctional.  I see so many so-say warrior outfits that leave large portions of the body with no protection at all.  Fine for pin-up work but on a real battlefield they would be dead in minute, if not from enemy action then it would be from exposure.

.......

Pretty much the same as this. And preferably lots of it for GNDAnatasia!

And I want Swidhelm to make some more 15th century armour please! :)