Is it just me or did anyone else find the episode a huge disappointment?

After the buildup, the stills, the trailers, all the hype, I expected to see at least a reasonable episode.  The plot seemed too contrived - even for Doctor Who - rushed in places, dragging in others.  The "Plot Twist" was pretty damn obvious from pretty much the beginning, there were enough holes in the plot to drive a fleet of buses through and at least one huge continuity error.

All in all, a great big letdown. 

I agree.

All I have to say re Doctor Who is :- rerun the old Tom Baker stories. The effects may seem amateur by todays standards, but you had good stories & good acting & the doctor didn't look like someone who, if you added a scar across his forhead & bolts on the neck, resembled the Boris Karloff incarnation of Frankenstein's monster.

Sorry, but i do happen to think Matt Smith fell out of the ugly tree & hit every branch on the way down.

On the up side 2+ years Catherine Tate free.

erm Sam... we don't think we've seen the plot twist just yet... a clue. check the casting.

Doctor...Who?

I like Matt Smith as the Doctor, ugly or not, he's a good actor and plays the part very well.  I think the standard of acting overall is far better than the earlier shows.  In general, I'm a huge fan and I've watched it from the very beginning, almost 50 years back.

In fact, this may be heresy but I think Smith is one of the best Doctors so far.  Tom Baker was always my favourite but I liked Tennant as much - most of the time.  Smith, I believe, is on par with both of 'em.

This episode, though... what a wasted opportunity.

@ khai - I think I know what you mean but within the confines of this particular episode, the "surprise" was anything but.

My son has been obsessed with that show for about the last month.  He just discovererd it and has been Netflixing like crazy.  I've never seen it.

I enjoyed it personally, and I didn't see the twist till late on....I think the fact you mentioned it will have prolly spoilt it for those that haven't seen it now....

As to the Doctor...I didn't like him to begin with, but he's grown on me and I now think he's one of the best of the recent ones, the last one aside....

Sylvester McCoy anyone...!

Exactly....

McCoy was shaping up to be a brilliant Doctor.. see Rememberance of the Daleks or Battlefield and you'll see what I mean..

or his reading (cold) of the Pandorica Speech...

http://youtu.be/s9_OkgWaRIs

Haven't seen the episode yet but would love to.  I like all things Doctor Who.

That being said, it took me a little while to get used to Matt Smith.  He's a little odd looking but he slips into the role well.  I'd like to see an older doctor again.

I think the only thing that kind of bothers me a bit about the last two doctors is that in some episodes they are written in as being so "full of themselves" and they come off as "you better run because I'm the doctor".  While yes, he is a dangerous enemy, I think it could have been a bit more low key.  I don't know if this is coming across right or others feel the same way.

I still enjoy watching all the episodes. 

I was glad when RTD left the show - his stories were the most contrived & predictable & he just didn't get the character of the master.

He turned the Master from a Machiavelian Manupilator ( as played by Roger Delgado & Anthony Ainley) to a raving lunatic (played by John Sim), the second worst piece of casting in the revived show, the worst being Catherine Tate who just ended up playing the same basic character she did in her so called comedy show.

Having said that I did like Captain Jack, quirky as he is, he is a better companion than Rory who tbh comes across as a bit wet behind the ears.

That said, David tennant was good, Matt Smith is improving, but for me the Doctor's best moment was in Genesis Of the Daleks when the Doctor agonises over wether he has the right to commit genocide, even if by so doing, he would save billions of lives.

I think one of the reasons Mat Smith works for me is he looks, well, slightly alien all by himself. Human, but not quite...if you know what I mean.  That makes the character a bit more realistic to me and I've been watching since the old Pertwee episodes.

Well I like Rory.  He plays a good everyman character but yeah, he's basically a repeat of Mickey (who I also liked).  I didn't really care for Rose (bratty), though she had her moments.  Both Donna and Amy are sassy and headstrong, which is fine with me.  Definately like River.

I liked the storyline with the parallel worlds.  I like the girl in the fireplace.  The Astronaut line was fine, though I found some of the individual stories to be kinda weak.  But, you know, it's still Doctor Who. :)  Really liked the "angels" stories.  I like the concept of "the silence".

I've enjoyed the show from day one, all those years back.  Overall there have been more good episodes than bad and more good cast choices than bad.  For a show that's almost 50 years old it's not a bad average.

I've enjoyed almost everything about the comeback series (not a reboot, btw), including RTD's stories, for the most part.  This particular episode, though, I thought was a real let down.  The huge continuity error with Rory and the dormant Dalek shows a general lack of care and attention, which IMO was also present in the writing.

@ thefixer - I never thought of that, mate.  I apologize if I have given the game away but I hope I haven't.

@ khai - I agree with you about McCoy.  There was something basically sinister about him, reminiscent of Hartnell. 

I will say this about the episode... As a Dalek fan, I thought the Daleks themselves looked superb.  I guess I'm going to have to make some battered ones now.

And as for Karen Gillan...drool :) 

I propose for that amount of Daleks, we need a name. eg a Murder of Crows...

I suggest... a Brown Trouser of Daleks.

Nah.  How about a Trundle of Daleks, or a Glide, or a Clank...;)

My all time favourite alien creatures and I like 'em too much to find them scary.   

I agree with Sam. The episode was a bit of a let down. Without the hype I might have found it OK, but a bit of a waste of a decent idea.

Bring back the Yeti in Tube tunnels, scariest series ever (for me). Unfortunately the BBC wiped the original tapes (Patrick Troughton era, incidentally. my favourite Doctor until Tennant).

Was it a huge disappointment, no. But then, I wasn't aware of any hype, nor was I even aware something was coming until this thread to be honest. I've missed all of last season, and half of the season before, due to the way they schedule hap haphazardly Dr. Who here. A fine way to kill any show I imagine (firefly for example). I don't watch much tv, not saying I'm better than, more, there's little that interests me, and if what I'm looking for isn't on, I don't watch for the sake of it, I do something else.

 I've watched Dr.Who since Pertwee, (seeing the Hartnell and some Troughton after the fact) up to the first McCoy episode. Then it vanished here until Eccleston. That said Peter Davidson was my favorite doctor. I think Pertwee, Tom Baker, Eccleston, Tennant, and Smith were all strong doctors.

 I really liked Rose Tyler (Billie Piper), and those that think Rory is a annoying companion, I guess you don't remember Adric, who only redemption was a brilliant death. The only character to annoy as much as Adrick was Captain Jack (who has a slight redemption as the face).

 I think the concepts in the new Doctor Who's are good, but the eggs eggs execution is lacking for the most part. I think they have degraded the Daleks, they used to be as scary as the Angles (best new addition). I feel they way they deal with sexuality is brash and unbecoming of the classic origins of the show, just more poor execution of story. There are stories that have the classic feel, but many stories that make me feel like grabbing the torch and and screaming hieratic!

 I was hoping for a double twist near the end, I think she could have been a good companion.

Quote -  I was hoping for a double twist near the end, I think she could have been a good companion.

Ah well... :D 

OH and one more thing, I agree they total F'd up the Master.

to those that think the Master got fucked up...

you've forgotten TimeFlight?

er.. maybe. I have the book, my daughter a rather new fan of the Doctor is curently reading it. I wonder if I have a vhs that works..

Remind me why he's no longer a genius?

Heresy, I know, but I actually prefer the Master now.  At least there's a concrete reason for the way he is.  I never bought into the "Evil for evil's sake" type of character, anyhow.

The Masters Madness came from looking into the time vortex (at least as far as a knew, I missed a big chunk of Who's so I may well have missed something). I don't have a problem with removing his "humanity" as such, I have issue with him not being the master planner. I don't have issue with characters evolving just changing the core of the character.

The evil for the sake of evil is something I don't really like in literature either, and to me that seems the route they sort of are taking with the daleks. They were supposed to be the sped up evolution of their people with genetic modifications to make them “stronger”, by weeding out “emotions that would make them weaker” to help them win the war.

Bah I'm starting to sound like some sort of Treky for Dr, Who, I'm not really, it was just something I grew up with and hold dear. Everything I'm saying could be dead wrong, I'm just going by a biased memory that's not all that good any more.

And BTW, I'm really looking forward to your grunge Daleks.

Hehe.  I'm experimenting with Snarly's Snow Machine for dust but I'll have to do Dalek skirt panels with lots of Booleans in them to account for missing hemis.  Then there's the dented hemis, the broken guns, battered panels and so forth.

Could keep me busy for a while and I still haven't finished the Special Weapons Dalek or the New Paradigm. 

Ah, I'd emailed you Paul, before I saw this thread.

Just watched the first ep on iplayer tonight and actually, overall I liked it.

Noted re. earlier points about the execution... it can be clumsy / rushed at points, it seems to me.

Too much is having to be crammed into too short a show time, I think.

There are'nt the changes of pace, to build dramatic tension, to the extent I think there needs to be.

But I would level that criticism at the last two sci fi films I've seen, Prometheus and Total Recall (remake).

I don't know to what extent the pacing, that is applied, is deliberate... to try to appeal to a broader audience. A lot of storyline also needs to be fitted into a pretty short programme slot too, of course.

Anyway... the Daleks really stole the show, I thought... and I certainly look forward to seeing more of Jenna Louise Coleman, in due course...

By the way... the count is up to 160, Paul.

I could probably add more... and I may still do. But rendering now to see how it looks

160!  Impressive.  Looks like the model came in useful, then.  I'm doing low poly versions of the others, too.  Have a Mk1 half done, which will make most of the others easy going.

I'd like to see more of Ms Coleman, if you get me drift.  :) 

Oh, going back to the subject of annoying companions...

Bonnie Langford, anyone?  Squeaky ginger bastard.  Should have been run over by a flail tank.  Repeatedly.

Agreed.

Quote - to those that think the Master got fucked up...

 

you've forgotten TimeFlight?

OK, I just rewatched it. I still don't see your point.

BTW, man was the sound bad back in the day.

Quote - Oh, going back to the subject of annoying companions...

Bonnie Langford, anyone?  Squeaky ginger bastard.  Should have been run over by a flail tank.  Repeatedly.

Bonnie Langford! Urgh! In my book she beats even Catherine Tate hands down in the most annoying category. Similar casting call to Tate, i.e. already well known in the field of light entertainment. Not a good call, I don't think.

I think Bonnie Langford was the real reason the Daleks created the Special Weapons model.

EDIT: Actually, wait... the Daleks probably saw her as a thing of great beauty :lol:

Still, I do remain thankful that Russ Abbot was never cast as The Doctor...

I was irritated at the time by Sylvester McCoy. But, in retrospect have accepted him... and do like a lot of his episodes.

I found Sophie Aldred's character Ace somewhat irksome too, initially... but again I've been won over, retrospectively, over time... and my Dorothy Cowan character, that I've invented for my series of alternative universe DW renders, owes something to her I've realised.

Quote - 160!  Impressive.  Looks like the model came in useful, then.  I'm doing low poly versions of the others, too.  Have a Mk1 half done, which will make most of the others easy going.

I'd like to see more of Ms Coleman, if you get me drift.  :) 

Cool as.... Lo polys of the others will be fantastic.

I get your drift... :nod:

...maybe the online-only mini-episode format will allow for more of "that kind of thing"... we've had an "Ood on the Loo"... so barriers are clearly being broken down...

...still it wasn't actually a nude Ood, I guess :blink:

Good or bad, I'm just tickled I can finally watch the show in high definition!

I know BBC America itself has offered a hi-def signal for some time, but until just a few weeks ago, DirecTV has not bothered to provide it.  Well, alittle over a month ago, DirecTV finally started broadcasting TCN's hi-def signal and about a fortnight later, BBCA.

So Saturday night right before 9 PM DST, I anled my 47 inch screen; stretched upon the sofa; turned on the tele' and tuned the channel to 264.

If nothing else, the Daleks never looked better!

Oh, hopefully this won't spoil anything, but I enjoy the idea Daleks can engage in conversation beyond the ranting "chant" of "Exterminate!"  It helps reenforce the idea that there are "creatures" within those shells, and that they are not simply robots.  It makes them far more creepy.  (Which is why I liked the "Cult of Skaro", Daleks waxing philosophical, disturbing stuff.)

Sincerely,

Bill

Yup... agree with you Bill, on the "creepy" factor. Creepy and tragic.

I think Asylum's storyline was a great one indeed, from this point of view.

...and I think it explores the hypocrisy that always seeps around the edges of their xenophobia too... hopefully that's a reasonable way of wording what I'm trying to say.

I like the "Revelation of the Daleks" storyline for similar reasons.

Quote - > Quote - to those that think the Master got fucked up...

 

you've forgotten TimeFlight?

OK, I just rewatched it. I still don't see your point.

BTW, man was the sound bad back in the day.

they're 140 million years in the past on prehistoric earth.... why did he dress up in that disguise? it wasn't needed.. it was like he was disguised because that's what the Master does, so we do it to him.. it had no reason in the plot at all..

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - to those that think the Master got fucked up...

 

you've forgotten TimeFlight?

OK, I just rewatched it. I still don't see your point.

BTW, man was the sound bad back in the day.

they're 140 million years in the past on prehistoric earth.... why did he dress up in that disguise? it wasn't needed.. it was like he was disguised because that's what the Master does, so we do it to him.. it had no reason in the plot at all..

There are many levels to this answer.

 Why disguise himself, his tools, and his objectives?

 Like a counterintelligence agency, that leaves a thinly veiled guise that they are leaving point A heading west for point B, when digging deeper you find they left point A for point C in the east. When in reality they were never at point A, and had no intention of moving anywhere.

 So after watching Time Flight and a few other older Doctor Who's, I would be left to believe that they were in fact really bad, and that thinking, that maybe my imagination at the time had filled in the gaps, and that the new ones are really much better.

 That of course that is somewhat plausible, but like good doctor said, as long as you remember they won't cease to exist.

 Could my memory be correct and it's the past that's been messed with? But by who? Rather not Who, but the Master of deception, eh Khai-J-Bach? If that is indeed your real name.

 I think I have confused myself again, I need a good cup of tea, and directions to Monkey Cloud's Dalek invasion.

I think, overall, I rather like it when the script and / or production leaves room for my imagination to fill in some gaps... patch up continuity errors, etc

I'd rather they made an honest try of getting things right.  Keep in mind this is supposed to be the Beeb's flagship show, a "Superbrand", as described by BBC Worldwide.  When it features the most iconic baddies ever, they should try a lot harder.

They could have even CGd the missing dome lamp in easily enough.

I'll go along with Bill, though; the Daleks looked superb and were definitely a whole lot creepier than of late. 

I'm just about to give it a second watch... I'll have to see if I can spot the missing lamp this time round.

I obviously wasn't "paying attention" at that bit. Nor were the production team by the sounds of it, eh?

I'll see how the pacing seems to me on a rewatch too... sometimes I think its me that's not watching at the right speed, when I feel like something isn't paced right. LOL :lol:

OT but why the name monkeycloud?  It always reminds me of the "Death by Monkeys" mushroom cloud in Toy Story 3.  :)

He he. Like that analogy.

I think the name is inspired by a mixture of the infinite monkeys theorem and the late 70s, early 80s TV series Monkey.

But I'm not always entirely sure where my mind is going with these things... tbh.

That missing bulb is a bit of a clanger eh?

I do like the almost David Lynchian moment, when Amy is hallucinating, more on second watch though... 

The lamp continuity error repeats itself later, with Rory and the Daleks trying to say "Exterminate"  The two Daleks swap sides.

Yep, the Amy bit is good.  I never thought of Lynch but it's a fair comparison.  Of course, Lynch would have a midget and a flickering light in there, too. 

We just watched Asylum last night... and I really enjoyed it. The writing for matt gave him a darker, more serious older less goofy feeling then the last season, and made me like him more. Same with the Ponds.

Promotion wise, I think the promotion was mainly referring to the entire season's story arc, not one specific episode, so we weren't disapointed.

I really enjoyed the whole thing and especially the ending, second watch, much more actually. I didn't get why the Daleks were so afraid first watch...

...looking forward to the story arc progressing.

I still think it was bobbins.

Yeah... watched it right through a few times now.

Despite its redeeming features, I do still wish they'd done so much more with it.

Especially, I think, with the Asylum Daleks.

Although I realised it likely wasn't going to be the case, I had been hoping for a two parter for the first story indeed... I don't think a good cliffhanger right at the start would have done any harm to the ratings. 

I hope what's to come in the rest of the series will further redeem it, relative to this point though...

...I had similar issues with the start of the last series to be honest... and then it never did actually fill in those blanks for me. Although, what it did instead was pretty damn good, I suppose... and to be fair, did entirely distract me from my misgivings, at the time.

On the topic of cliffhangers, have the Beeb had really negative focus group feedback on cliffhangers in DW or something? Does the cliffhanger format not work so well for modern audiences?

I came to Doctor Who towards the end of the Tom Baker era, initially, wherein single storys would regularly run over multiple episodes. Having anything wrapped up in one 45 minute episode just didn't happen. Cliffhangers were integral to the format... but the seasons were much longer running. For example six stories in season fourteen, each four episodes, apart from Talons of Weng Chiang, which was six episodes. Episodes were maybe nearer the 35 minute mark at that point iirc?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/index_fourth.shtml

I've watched DW since the begining and I have to say that Matt Smith is the lamest I have seen. Tennant is the best, he showed a very broad range of emotions from anger to love to sorrow etc but I could always see the core "lonely man" persona. By comparison MS has the acting ability of a mushroom, he seems to constantly confused or bewildered then in the last 10mins he "becomes" intelligent and fixes everything.

Since MS's incarnation there is only one episode I would watch again and that was the one where Amy was trapped in a terminal and grew old. Matt was in it at the begining and end. Amy, I like a lot but her character does suffer from the occassional bad scripting

The latest episode, I have to admit, was slightly better than past episodes but the daleks got screwed - they now have no memory, therefore no fear, of DW - what is that about?! I kinda liked the plot twist but not the continueity errors

Amy's husband's only claim to fame is that he waited 2000yrs outside the pandorica for Amy (and he's still plastic? in acting and substance). I was really hopeful at the start of the episode with the talk of divorce, but even that was a bit soap operary for Dr Who.

And while I'm here, what ever happened to Jenny (DW's daughter), she looked like a great character for future interactions. I remembered her because in this episode when it was established there was a girl in a ship on the asylum I thought, Great  Jennys back - then I saw it wasn't her and was disappointed .

Such is life, let's see what the next episode brings.

Yup - I had the exact same thoughts regards Jenny... and the Oswin character maybe being Jenny.

Well, assuming she isn't... I remain hopeful Jenny might still return.

Are we past the point of concern about spoilers now by the way? Surely everyone who wants to see the episode, who might read this, will have seen it?

I haven't but I don't mind spoilers. :D  I hadn't realized the season started up. Was expecting it later this month.