I know I was being simplistic.  :)

I don't agree with the iron fist approach but I do think there should be a firmer approach to bad behaviour here.  Actually, I thought basicwiz had a pretty good balance.  It's just a damn shame he's had to step down.

I also know people aren't going to grow up; I just wanted to vent.  :D 

"If you can't say something good about someone, sit right here by me." - Alice Roosevelt Longworth.

One of my favorite quotations......

Quote - I'm anti-authoritarian by nature but in this environment I'm just not sure that depending on self discipline works.

Me too. But it wasn't self discipline I was thinking of. It was peer pressure. It may be a recognized evil among adolescents, but among adults it's what keeps us civilized most of the time. After all, it isn't fear of arrest that stops adults from shouting insults at one another in the street. It's the fear of the disapproval of their peers. Of course, some people are unaffected by that disapproval -- and they do shout in the streets. But most people succumb to it pretty quickly if the community is allowed to express it.

I know. It's the collective self discipline I'm questioning. I don't insist on the notion, I'm just not sure. In real life, people have different connections, e.g. the people at lunch are people you work with every day, may socialize outside of work with, have more opportunities to help or hurt you in various ways etc. They're also more likely to share at least a broadly similar cultural background. I think that in many ways, the online experience doesn't replicate that.

If anything, the online ethos, both positive and negative is seeping into the real world. I have no idea what the long term consequences of that will be. Some would say that the migration from the farm to cities and then to surburbia lessened the sense of community and increased isolation. The internet could have a similar impact - in either direction.

I do think that peer pressure can be effective, I'm just uncertain as to how well. If nothing else, those who spend hours in front of a computer playing with make believe people may not constitute the healthiest, most rational sample of mankind :-)

Maybe Rendo dev staff can do a web version of ToneCheck ("Sentiment analysis engine").  A member could switch in on to filter out posting with a particularly negative tone.  If this could be done a "beer filter" would also be much apprechiated to stop the posting of material and comments after consuming too much of the inspirational spirit.

If there was an active tone filter and beer filter, nobody would read anything I say.

if there was a way to subscribe to a posts digest by username, you'd be top of my subscribe to list.

it's easy enough to scroll passed the posts by people you don't want to read, it's especially easy if you have a scrollwheel mouse.  an ignore button is superfluous, imo.

Quote - If anything, the online ethos, both positive and negative is seeping into the real world. I have no idea what the long term consequences of that will be. Some would say that the migration from the farm to cities and then to surburbia lessened the sense of community and increased isolation. The internet could have a similar impact - in either direction. 

People tend to think of cities as being more barbaric and violent places, and yet in Canada, it turns out that violent crime is significantly higher in rural and small urban areas than in big cities. At least in some cultures, being forced to live in close quarters with other people seems to have a civilizing effect.

I would think you might see a similar effect on the internet: the more time spent conversing with others, the greater the tolerance for differences. When I consider the cultural changes just here in North America that I have personally witnessed since the WWW arrived, I do tend to think we're moving in the direction of tolerance and inclusiveness, and we're doing it at a rather astonishing speed.

I do have a tolerance for different cultures. The plain and simple fact tho is that being an asshole is universal ;).

Laurie

Everybody has an attitude.
Be it in real life or on the net.

We are who we are, and we can not change that.

I love a HONDA. Others like a Mercedes or Ford or BMW.

That is what makes us different, and equal.

Being tolerant, friendly and helpfull is nice, up to the point where some "XYZ" starts playing with our feet.

Some backfire sooner then others.

Have a nice day, and happy Psering

Tony

How about a point system.  Every post you get 1 point, max 5 per day.  Once you get 100 points you get $1 off a store purchase.  If a mod determines you are out of order in the forums they can DELETE some points! ^ ^

my Poser Animations

heh. those points would be useless to me ;) there is nothing in the store I want.

Quote - heh. those points would be useless to me ;) there is nothing in the store I want.

They could give you a cash equivalent, or buy you a year's subscription to the DAZ Platinum Club. :lol: 

Quote - > Quote - heh. those points would be useless to me ;) there is nothing in the store I want.

They could give you a cash equivalent, or buy you a year's subscription to the DAZ Platinum Club. :lol: 

HA!!!

"I do tend to think we're moving in the direction of tolerance and inclusiveness, and we're doing it at a rather astonishing speed."

Maybe it's my own cynical perspective or as they say, location, location, location. Currently, the US is sharply divided )IMO) along patrisan lines and tolerance between the two sides is in shor supply. No doubt the more extreme voices have an outsized vocal presence, but the internet has certainly magnified them. The nutcases now have a global soapbox.

In theory, enabling different people to congregate would have a positive effect. Unfortunately, modern technology also enables greater isolation. As an example, the whole country used to get their news from a few major outlets. Now people can self select to only get the 'information' that reinforces their own ideological prejudices. Neo Nazis and other assorted crazies who were once isolated can now congretate and reach a large audience. Like every other technology, it gets used for good or ill. I hope your vision wins out but my experience of human nature doesn't make me optimistic :-)

Steven Pinker does a nice TED talk on the subject that, I think, is worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk

He also believes that technology that increases communication tends to enable greater empathy and a higher valuation of other people.

Neo-Nazis can reach a larger audience than the original Nazis? Really? I think during WW2 and the decades following, most literate adults had a pretty decent understanding of Nazi ideology and the names of the major political figures involved in their rise to power.

Can you actually, with confidence and without looking it up, name any Neo-Nazi leaders and list off their organization's current major goals? And even if you can, would you expect your neighbor to be able to do it or the cashier at the grocery store? I rather think the Neo-Nazis -- not the dissatisfied unemployed and under educated youth who borrow their symbols as a justification for rioting and vandalism, but an actual political organization --  are in fact pretty darned obscure. They have an implied historical link to the political party they take their name from, and even so I'll bet very, very few people really care about them.

How about Baader Meinhof, Red Brigades, ETA -- I'm told these guys are actually still active. Really? Well, if they are, they are not reaching a big enough international audience to get my attention. Even with the internet. I mean, they can reach people who are actively looking for them -- but preaching to the choir doesn't really net many fresh converts.

The internet is overwhelmingly a force for cooperation and the peaceful dissemination of ideas. The nasty voices are loud and they do get our attention at times, but they are still drowned out by the rest. That's why they have to use violence to get on the news -- because their ideas aren't strong enough to hold up to the scrutiny of the masses. With the internet that scrutiny flourishes more powerfully than ever before in the history of mankind. That's why despots hate the internet.

*"Neo-Nazis can reach a larger audience than the original Nazis? Really? I think during WW2 and the decades following, most literate adults had a pretty decent understanding of Nazi ideology and the names of the major political figures involved in their rise to power."

*In terms of resources, I'd say they're doing pretty vs. a nation state with the likes of Himmler et al at their disposal.

It's not important for the people to know the roster or the stated list of bullet points. I doubt that 95% of voters know the details of the Republican or Democratic party platforms and a disturbing number of people asked on the street apparently don't even know who the current vice president is. If you doubt the ability of a small group of people to have major consequences, look no further than current events in the Middle East. I threw out the Neo-Nazis as an extreme example. I agree that the denizens of the Stormfront website aren't the primary problem. The problem is (aided by the the ability of technology to spread/legitimize kookiness) fringe ideas spread to infect the populace. Thus, fully 45% of Americans are at least unsure as to whether the President was born in the US.

Dictators don't hate the internet, it presents them with too convenient a tool. They hate the free internet and take measures to control it.

I may be too old to believe. I hope you're right, but i've seen too many innovations come and go without changing the fundamentals of human nature to think that this one will be any different. Your points are well made though.

Ah well, Godel's (?) law has been fulfilled, Nazis have been mentioned, so I'll give it a rest and vote present.

Quote - If you doubt the ability of a small group of people to have major consequences, look no further than current events in the Middle East...

I believe the video sat unnoticed on YouTube for at least a month until a news agency in Egypt chose to feature it in a TV broadcast. We are still, it seems, in thrall to the older technologies.

In any case, I think you're thinking of Godwin's Law, though Gödel applies with force here too. :) Out of reverence for the former, I'll leave it at that and continue to hope my global optimism prevails even in the short term.

*"We are still, it seems, in thrall to the older technologies." *

Absolutely, though I'd say it's OS Homo that's long overdue for an update

"In any case, I think you're thinking of Godwin's Law ..."

I knew God was in there somewhere :-)

Keep the faith. As Dr. King said, "The Arc of the moral Universe Is Long But It Bends Towards Justice ."

what are the rules for sarcasm?  step away from the keyboard? 

mphhh mfff

Quote - what are the rules for sarcasm?  step away from the keyboard? 

mphhh mfff

Probably ;). Which makes it really hard for me since I'm about as sarcastic as they come by nature. LOL.

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - what are the rules for sarcasm?  step away from the keyboard? 

mphhh mfff

Probably ;). Which makes it really hard for me since I'm about as sarcastic as they come by nature. LOL.

Laurie

You do have a natural disadvantage, though... You're not a Brit.  We elevated sarcasm (and its refined cousin, irony) to an artform. 

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - what are the rules for sarcasm?  step away from the keyboard? 

mphhh mfff

Probably ;). Which makes it really hard for me since I'm about as sarcastic as they come by nature. LOL.

Laurie

You do have a natural disadvantage, though... You're not a Brit.  We elevated sarcasm (and its refined cousin, irony) to an artform. 

I have British friends and am starting to watch a lot of British comedy. I'm learning...lol. Watching a lot of Russell Howard and Mock The Week...lmao. I do agree that as a people, Brits are some of the funniest creatures. That's speaking as an American, we having a more cerebral, yet similar sense of humor ;). Think high school. LOL

Laurie

Yep, obviously. :)

"You do have a natural disadvantage, though... You're not a Brit. We elevated sarcasm (and its refined cousin, irony) to an artform. "

I wish I'd said that.........

You will Mystic, you will.........................

Quote - That's speaking as an American, we having a more cerebral, yet similar sense of humor ;). Think high school. LOL

A perfect example of highly evolved cerebral high school humour: American Pie. It's fortunate indeed that I had a Texan friend with me to explain everything when I first saw the film or else I might have mistaken it for crudely comical sexual farce and buffoonery, rather than the witty high brow commentary on education and parenting that it really is. ;)

It was funny though.

So, if sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, what's the highest... Benny Hill?

Or maybe it's "You've been maimed" style viewers video clips of (probably staged) domestic trampolining accidents?

My 10 month old already has a great sense of physical comedy. He laughs his head off if you drop something, including pretending to drop him, or trip on something... look surprised in a comical fashion... etc... or if the dog trumps, then looks round with a "who did that" expression on his face (yup, genuinely).

Black  Adder uses lots of analogies. 

Still hard to believe that's Hugh Laurie, (Dr. House)  "Distinctly Minty" lol

Sarcasm definitely is not the lowest form of wit, although it was said (I forget by whom) that it's a blunt instrument, where irony is a rapier.  There's a very fine line between the two but, like many things, the vernacular use of irony is completely different from the original definition.

I have a theory about the roots of humour but it'd take the thread even more off target so I'll leave it for another time. 

Quote - I have a theory about the roots of humour but it'd take the thread even more off target so I'll leave it for another time. 

Sounds like a great OT thread, all its own, to me... will look forward to that one

Quote - > Quote - I have a theory about the roots of humour but it'd take the thread even more off target so I'll leave it for another time. 

Sounds like a great OT thread, all its own, to me... will look forward to that one

Yep :)

Laurie

OK.  I'll start the thread later.

I always thought that Irony meant "Like Iron" :biggrin: