Not trying to start a flame war on which is best. I'm really just looking for a comparison. I'm interested in switching from Bryce to Vue, in part because of its ability to import Poser figures. Looking on their website I can't remember seeing a single program with so many versions. Being new to the software I'd like to start with the less expensive Vue 10 Esprit. How do you think it compares in power and ease of use with Bryce? Would the higher end versions be more difficult to learn the basics on, or is the extra functionality well "hidden" until needed.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

First, have you looked at the Cornucopia3D.com gallery yet to see what versions of Vue were used to create the type of Poser scenes you're hoping to create?

To be very honest, I did download some kind of trial version of Vue and I got no further than installing it. I could find nothing that was intuitive to even begin to create a scene. On the other hand Bryce has always seemed intuitive and very easy to get to grips with from the moment it loaded up on the screen.

I can't comment on Vue vs. Bryce, having never used Bryce, but from experience you will probably want the Vue Ecosystem module.  I started out with Vue d'esprit but soon learned that Ecosystem was necessary for realistic scenes.  Otherwise you have to place hundreds or thousands of individual plants yourself.  Look at the price of Vue d'esprit plus Ecosystem module vs. buying Vue Studio. Hope this helps.

Quote - I can't comment on Vue vs. Bryce, having never used Bryce, but from experience you will probably want the Vue Ecosystem module.  I started out with Vue d'esprit but soon learned that Ecosystem was necessary for realistic scenes.  Otherwise you have to place hundreds or thousands of individual plants yourself.  Look at the price of Vue d'esprit plus Ecosystem module vs. buying Vue Studio. Hope this helps.

Thanks, this is helpfull. I couldn't help but wonder how you shrink a $1400 program down to $199 without a great deal of comprimises. Seems you have to customize the program for your needs. I'll have a look at the gallery as another poster suggested to see if I can get some more insight. I'm having trouble downloading the trial version.

I was getting back to Bryce after a many year absence and was a bit put off by the fact that the interface didn't seem to have been updated much. It forces a full screen, doesn't have multiple viewing angles, and the icons around the edges are miniscule on my 20". Somebody please straighten me out if those can be adjusted.

Get Vue complete. I started with Bryce and Vue is much better.

I started with Bryce, and Vue is much better, too! ;)

they are both very similar, actually.

always try the demo of an app, see the PLE version for Vue :)

Vue hands down....

IT's like compare TrueSpace and Maya

I am a long time brycer (started with v2.1 back in 1996) and it took me some time to give Vue a real try.

I tried Vue 1.2, then 3 and could not get past a few tests. I was used to Bryce and the Vue interface looked ugly and unintuitive in comparison. On top of that, it was quite buggy compared to Bryce and some features had obviousely been copied on Bryce.

I started using Vue with V6, mainly because Bryce had not been developed for a long time and lacked essential things such as soft shadows, realistics skies and ground vegetation. 
I got used to Vue and rarely looked back since then.

A few years ago, I did a feature comparison based on Bryce 6 vs Vue 7.
http://www.virtual-lands-3d.com/bryce-vs-vue.html

Many things have changed in Vue since then. The viewport previews are much better since V8 and the flickering I talk about is almost gone. The terrain editor is better (though I still feel the Bryce one was excellent)

Some things are still the same though, but the number of unique features of Bryce (those Vue does not have) has continued to dwindle.

One thing though. I considered myself an expert user of Bryce, having delved in the Real World Bryce 4 books and tried to overcome its weaknesses in every way I could. I used light arrays to make soft shadows, custom objects to make grass, HDRI skies from photographs, terrains to model objects. Bryce is easy to learn and you can ultimately feel you can master it.
On the contrary, Vue is becoming more and more a 3DSMax like product, with loads of features everywhere and loads of numerical values you have to tweak, test, tweak, test to get results that many times are far from what you would expect.
Even following excellent tutorials like Dax Pandhi's for instance, does not guarantee you will get the same results.

You waste considerable time with Vue (I feel) because of this. As much time as I lost in Max tweaking render parameters in Mental Ray.

The manual is in the same league as the one of Max: it describes every function individually, but you don't learn what every slider does in practice.

Vue has a classical interface with loads of unhidden math. The Bryce interface was made by Kai Krause and the teams of Metacreations who pushed useability to its very limits, hiding the figures and letting the user play with it.

This has to be kept in mind as well as the price difference that is now enormous.

I too used Bryce (5) for starters, but soon made the shift to Vue, and found Vue much more powerful and intuitive (!) to use.
I have Complete, and wouldn't recommend lesser.
There's always been this sort of religious war Bryce > Vue, to settle things a bit (in favour of Vue of course) just visit the respective galleries here, and see what people do with it.
A high level Bryce work would be an average Vue one...

Quote - A high level Bryce work would be an average Vue one...

I am not sure this is true. It depends on the scene. 

I think there are still things that Bryce do better than Vue in some specific aspects such as reflexive, metallic or water surfaces. It has a very clean antialiasing on these and they look very nice.

If you understand the function editor and use the Pro version of Vue, there is no way to put Bryce in the same category.

I also started with Bryce and still have it, but it does not compare nor should it. Bryce is free and with Daz Studio being free also, for a hobby you can produce some great stuff without buying Poser Pro or Vue.

To answer the question, if you are serious, can afford it and are experienced in rendering or 3D in general you only have one choice; Vue. If you go Infinite the only real limitation on what you can do is your skill level in the function editor and with lighting.

Vue has trouble rendering reflective metal and mirrors.  I remember Bryce 5 rendering chrome very well.  And that was 10 years ago.

I appreciate the responses and some things have been cleared up. It seems I will need one of the higher versions to get the complete experience. Vue does seem to give me more realistic renders right out of the box and the artwork I've seen created with view does in my opinion surpass what I've seen of Bryce. It should be kept in mind though that a free program like Bryce will attract a lot more hobbiests and experimenters where as Vue, with it's higher price, would attract more professionals and semi-professionals. Working with the free versions and having tested the higher end versions, Vue seems easier to use to me. The interface and menu based access to settings works better for me.

I will say though, that I've also heard a lot of vitriol directed towards the developers, here and on other boards, based on their pricing and lack of customer support. That's problematic. I may need to continue with Bryce a while longer until I can afford to take the leap.

Bryce 5 and Vue 4 were identical in features pretty much.  And I liked Vue 4's GUI better than Bryce 5's.  I bought Vue 5 because it had better outdoor lighting and it was a much faster renderer than Bryce.  I don't know if Bryce rendering is as fast as Vue now or not.

I haven't experienced 'lack of customer support' (Vue), on the contrary, the few times I've had to contact tech support, it has been swift. If you read the different forums and Facebook sites, they are often full of dissatisfied users (DAZ, Cornucopia, Renderosity or whatever) - because people are more likely to express dissatisfaction than the opposite.
It's a bit like you always hear about people being treated badly at the hospital, giving you the impression that all doctors are bad. But you seldom here about the many, many more cases where the treatment works...
(Of course it's very relevant to know about the pros and cons)

Quote: "Vue does seem to give me more realistic renders right out of the box and the artwork I've seen created with view does in my opinion surpass what I've seen of Bryce. It should be kept in mind though that a free program like Bryce will attract a lot more hobbiests and experimenters where as Vue, with it's higher price, would attract more professionals and semi-professionals."

About the pricing and quality - if Bryce had something to offer anyway near what you get from Vue, more 'semi-professionals' would use it, I guess.
Even the free Vue Pioneer offers beautiful realistic skies (rendered at a reasonable time) and use of pre-made ecosystems.

(Actually, I find it incredible that this discussion keeps coming up smile I'll quote from memory what another Vue'er wrote on Facebook, when DAZ made Bryce 7 free: "About Bryce, don't bother. If you have Vue, it's not worth the download time".

I don't know if a similar discussion DAZ Studio vs. Poser exists, but I think it would be much more tricky. IMHO the Studio is a quite powerful contender, prefer Poser though, because I know it better... ) 

I use Poser because that is what I know.  I never used DAZ Studio.  I see great renders from both.  It's hard to tell (for me) which is a "better" program.

Quote - It should be kept in mind though that a free program like Bryce will attract a lot more hobbiests and experimenters where as Vue, with it's higher price, would attract more professionals and semi-professionals.

....and serious artists or hobbyists who can afford or want the best available.

Quote - Working with the free versions and having tested the higher end versions, Vue seems easier to use to me. The interface and menu based access to settings works better for me.

You get what you pay or do not pay for. Bryce is many, many years behind.

Quote - I will say though, that I've also heard a lot of vitriol directed towards the developers, here and on other boards, based on their pricing and lack of customer support. That's problematic. I may need to continue with Bryce a while longer until I can afford to take the leap.

I would not say a lot. A handful of people and some I suspect cannot be satisfied no matter what. Some because they simply do not understand that Vue is designed to take full advantage of system capabilities and get wrongly upset when they cannot do with a low end system what can be done with a high end workstation. They just don't seem to get that.

Some think everything is overpriced and that other people don't deserve to earn a living from their work. They think the world owes them everything. No company can make them happy.

Some complaints are just frustration over what happened right then and if you asked them they would not complain about Vue in general. When things mess up humans get frustrated and overreact.

E-On has excellent customer support. They are very quick at responding to real bugs that are reported the right way to Support, instead of bitching on a forum and not reporting it. I don't blame them when they ignore a report from me that is not there fault and I'm being dumb. Everytime they don't get right back with me, I find out  that I'm wrong and Vue is not the problem.

Quote - I don't know if a similar discussion DAZ Studio vs. Poser exists, but I think it would be much more tricky. IMHO the Studio is a quite powerful contender, prefer Poser though, because I know it better... ) 

Daz gets Studio's bugs all ironed out, Poser is in trouble I think. Poser had a unique niche until now and they may have to share it with an equal program soon. I find them equal and like you, I only use Poser because I know it better and it's an easy way to get even my own models into Vue.

I finally started taking a serious look at it lately and I have to admit that it's easier to pose in Studio, but their file system puts me off.

Quote - Poser had a unique niche until now and they may have to share it with an equal program soon.

What was unique? Poser and DAZ Studio have been sharing the same drives for over 6 years now.

Quote - > Quote - Poser had a unique niche until now and they may have to share it with an equal program soon.

What was unique? Poser and DAZ Studio have been sharing the same drives for over 6 years now.

I'm not sure I care enough to debate syntax.

I never viewed Studio as a replacement until recently. How you view it may be different.

Ok.  Understood.

"It should be kept in mind though that a free program like Bryce will attract a lot more hobbiests and experimenters where as Vue, with it's higher price, would attract more professionals and semi-professionals."

Actually the point I was making here is that with Bryce's low barrior to entry a lot of users may just play around with it that have no desire to improve their skills. It kind of pollutes  the waters with low quality Bryce artwork (not that people don't have right to produce low quality artwork).

I just recently came across this most excellent artist KuzMich who uses both Bryce and Vue. Seems obvious that in the hands of a talented creater either program can get great results. I still lean slightly towards Vue in that the renders have a certain quality that I like. The final art still doesn't speak to the overall ease or difficulty of achieving the final output though.

Quote - I just recently came across this most excellent artist KuzMich who uses both Bryce and Vue. Seems obvious that in the hands of a talented creater either program can get great results.

That artist's style does a good job of hiding flaws in Vue and Bryce.  But once realistic scenes are depicted using those environment settings, the magic soon falls flat.

Bryce vs Vue is like Peewee Herman vs Mike Tyson in his prime.

One good test would be to have that Howie guy (that did those pond scenes for Carrara and then converted some to Vue) convert some to Bryce and see if they are just as good as the Vue versions.  Maybe he already has done some for Bryce to compare?

false1 posted at 11:33PM Thu, 24 November 2016 - #4006676

Quote - I can't comment on Vue vs. Bryce, having never used Bryce, but from experience you will probably want the Vue Ecosystem module.  I started out with Vue d'esprit but soon learned that Ecosystem was necessary for realistic scenes.  Otherwise you have to place hundreds or thousands of individual plants yourself.  Look at the price of Vue d'esprit plus Ecosystem module vs. buying Vue Studio. Hope this helps.

Thanks, this is helpfull. I couldn't help but wonder how you shrink a $1400 program down to $199 without a great deal of comprimises. Seems you have to customize the program for your needs. I'll have a look at the gallery as another poster suggested to see if I can get some more insight. I'm having trouble downloading the trial version.

I was getting back to Bryce after a many year absence and was a bit put off by the fact that the interface didn't seem to have been updated much. It forces a full screen, doesn't have multiple viewing angles, and the icons around the edges are miniscule on my 20". Somebody please straighten me out if those can be adjusted.

There no way I can afford $1400, but in three months I can save maybe half of that, so is it possible to buy the basic version and upgrade bit by bit? The two biggest disadvantages for Bryce is I can't import Poser animation and the render time is way to long. It took me 14 hours to render a 30 second scene, (but the result was beautiful)

It's up to $1400 now? I started with Vue Infinite back when it was $599 I think for version 5. And for a hair more, you could get Lightwave 7 with it. Definitely not priced for the hobby guy/gal anymore.

Wow, Vue Infinite has changed a lot since this thread was started.

Bryce is very capable, but it makes no sense anymore to compare it to Vue Infinite. Vue Infinite has moved into the studio realm, while Bryce is more for a hobbyist. For those who need Vue Infinites features, Vue makes sense. Expensive at first but after you get into the Maintenance plan it's annual costs are pretty reasonable.

Bryce is what got me interested too many years ago to admit. I loaded it a few weeks ago and realized I'd almost forgotten how to use the UI. Like all software, Vue becomes very intuitive after you have used it for a bit. The UI is very well thought out.

For a hobby though, I'd say cheaper versions of Vue are still superior to Bryce by far, as long as you have a capable workstation to run it on. It's not for a weak machine.

I've noted often people who complain don't understand how powerful Vue is and your experience will be very different if you don't have a powerful machine with great GPU with lots of VRAM and loads of RAM. Vue's performance is directly related to the quality of workstation its on. It's just not for an over the counter computer.

I never did learn how to make my own materials in Bryce. It's GUI was too alien for me. I could only import stuff and hope for the best when rendering them. When I first used Vue, the objects/material controls/menus were all properly labeled just like in any other modeling/rendering app. I ran Vue on a Pentium 4 single-core 32-bit computer for years before getting an i7 quad-core 64-bit computer. Going from "worrying about PC resources" to "not worrying about PC resources" while creating a Vue scene.

We've got a new VS now..... everyone can afford Bryce vs no one can afford Vue :) Aside from that, Bryce loses on every count and pretty much is abandonware.... shame, since it was at least affordable.

Bryce VS Vue: HMMM, that's like pestilence vs cholera. o.k, o.k, o.k. I'll go with Vue. I could never done anything with Bryce. MainReason I really, really hate Kai Krause UIs. They look like UIs designed for todlers' toys computers by e.g. Fisher Price. Telling the user, that he is to stupid to manage an User Interface, so they make it simple. Second main reason editing your scene in a wireframe mode makes it hard to have an overview over your scene. It's just frustrating. Third render times are way longer than with any other software I've tried. Vue: I've started with Vue d'esprit4, as it was the way better alternative to bryce. Buggy, but a way better Interface. Pretty allright compared to its time. Too bad e-on sftware wanted to put more and more in it. It seemed, that an average home computer was not able to handle the app without crashing. Real time scene navigation became more difficult, longer render times, in case you made use of advanced features and bug. bugs, Bugs and more bugs. One of my "favourite" once in a while returning bugs is the "shoot camera into nowhere-bug". One tiny touch of your camera cotroll and you cannot find your scene anymore, because your editor camera has been shot into who-knows-where. Every Vue render I did and I've seen by other amaizing vue-artists, that contain plants and athmosphere have a grainy and aliased look. Some don't but rendered with VUE Xstream in Maya or Max using I think Renderman. There seam to be no way to render a picture, that looks antaliased in VUE nativley. As soon as Vue establish a new better renderer, I am back in. The Path Tracer is a good start, but not what I hoped for, because it supports only a few features. So I keep hoping for further VUE versions. At least there is hope. One big Plus in Vue has been the Poser import option. This might be a reason, why Vue made it to the top. So yup, I'll go with VUE, if I had to choose.

People dont seem to understand that Bryce and Carrara are dead, get it through your heads and move on

Tomas1975 posted at 7:29PM Tue, 28 February 2017 - #4290848

There no way I can afford $1400, but in three months I can save maybe half of that, so is it possible to buy the basic version and upgrade bit by bit? The two biggest disadvantages for Bryce is I can't import Poser animation and the render time is way to long. It took me 14 hours to render a 30 second scene, (but the result was beautiful)

Unless you just have money to burn or plan to get into this really hard core, go for Vue Complete. It's far less money than Infinite and should do what you need.