OK,,,**
**Here you go zanzo. I think if you want to try big breasts, you have to fix the ribcage first. V4 breasts are designed to go from A to Z. Her ribs are not. There are but a few rib morphs. I think the secret is to cave the sternum in quite a bit. Also to wrap the breast  up under her arm more instead of way out on her ribs (from profile). This is why they seem to grow as you rotate from front view to side view. They are set too far out on Z axis.

Zbrush and/or the morph brush are your friends. You cannot really fix everything in a FBM. But you can get part of the way there, then do a quick fix before rendering.

I add this pic which is far from correct either. Just better than my other tests I did today. I did do major work on the breasts as a FBM and posed object in Zbrush.

Quote - OK,,,
Here you go zanzo. I think if you want to try big breasts, you have to fix the ribcage first. V4 breasts are designed to go from A to Z. Her ribs are not. There are but a few rib morphs. I think the secret is to cave the sternum in quite a bit. Also to wrap the breast  up under her arm more instead of way out on her ribs (from profile). This is why they seem to grow as you rotate from front view to side view. They are set too far out on Z axis.

I'm starting to see what you mean.

Hmmm, I'm going to try and work a QUICK version of this suggestion into my workflow.  This will take a while to understand but you've got a good eye for detail.

Quote - Zbrush and/or the morph brush are your friends. You cannot really fix everything in a FBM. But you can get part of the way there, then do a quick fix before rendering.

Yes this quick fix is what I'm looking for with Zbrush before the render.

Quote - I add this pic which is far from correct either. Just better than my other tests I did today. I did do major work on the breasts as a FBM and posed object in Zbrush.

Keep in mind, I am not going for total realism. My point of view is biased towards fantasy & cartoon. So balance my suggestions out.  I would reduce areola size by 25-35% .. Slightly bigger nipples as if they've been iced so they're umm ready to go. A little bit bumpier would be nice around the nipple.  IMO your breasts are realistic which is a testament to your eye for detail, but is it a turn on? I'd like to see them more perfect, fake, hollywood, fantasy.  

Now let's put turn ons aside.  That render is realistic man and she seems like an interesting character. Her face stands out and is interesting.  She's like a real woman. Don't get me wrong ,I've seen your other renders and you know what HOT is :) ....

Here are my renders of different breasts. I'm looking for hardcore feedback, no holds barred suggestions from different points of view.  I need to take what richardson about the rib,sternum, wrapping the breast into consideration and try to understand how to implement it.

Richardson's comments are absolutely correct, its difficult to get an abrupt smooth undercurve with gravity on v4 because of this. Definitely something that can only really be remedied by some manipulation of the geometry in a modeling app. That's a really nice breast morph that he did in his example above, very realistic. By the same token, V4's small breast morphs are also severely limited.

Edit - that's better. Well the real ones seem to start under the arm pit, while V4's start well too far around the front.

there's no crease where the breast joins into the chest area also, with larger morphs it causes a plane of polys at an angle rather than a sharp fold where the join starts (if this makes any sense)... would show a demo render but I don't have any large breasted nude depictions of v4 laying around anymore. Just the idea of having to load her into a scene and start fiddling with morphs just isn't appealing to me at the moment.

There is actually a crease, it's just that it's in the entirely wrong place.

Other than the curve of the swell at the bottom of the breast away from the join, there is virtually no contact between the forms even at these exaggerated settings.

...where's the crease? all I see are compressed long thin polys (on the verge of being non-planar) at the join. Totally unrealistic.

And there's the reason the not so closet pervs and realism junkies have wanted some kind of soft body dynamic system for a few years, now. The structural complexities simply can't be addressed consistently any other way. Z-brush may make it possible to sculpt something realistic......so long as you don't mind doing it for each and every figure. And you have photo references so you know -what- to sculpt. And sbd is the only practical method if you intend to animate things....

Wow, this is better than the usual paper and cup of coffee..

I see I'm not alone. Zanzo, you see from examples exactly the issue. Another thing is, and I think it's been said, you are too far into the realism realm with this to say you are not. You have to deal with the math to some degree or resketch your FBM to go away from it a bit more.

@ Dale B, I'm just pointing out some things regarding the topic... I couldn't give a shit about masturbatory playing with dolls fetishism. Really not my cup of tea in poser. Likewise I think the stiflingly conservative forum obsession with photorealism in poser is equally pointless. You want photorealism in art, look at a photograph.

Sorry about the venom of my last post, need to get some sleep... sweet dreams.

ridiculous that this is still not possible in poser and daz world today 2012

these vids are created in 2008, and you can still not in poser or dazstudio 2012?

come on, how ridiculous is that?

http://metadoll.dojin.com/labo/2008_1_1.avi

http://metadoll.dojin.com/labo/2009muscletest01.avi

source: http://metadoll.dojin.com/labo/

Quote - And there's the reason the not so closet pervs and realism junkies have wanted some kind of soft body dynamic system for a few years, now. The structural complexities simply can't be addressed consistently any other way. Z-brush may make it possible to sculpt something realistic......so long as you don't mind doing it for each and every figure. And you have photo references so you know -what- to sculpt. And sbd is the only practical method if you intend to animate things....

you don't have to be a perv junkie.

just be an animator is enough and need of more realism.

Quote - ...the problem with trying to compensate for this with custom morphs is that you have to do a lot of sliding of edges in order to compensate for the geometry's shortcomings, if you don't you end up with the effect illustrated by a couple of zanzo's renders.

aaah more work for me :(   .... I wonder what a good Zbrush smoothing workflow is before final render.

1. Shoulders
2. Collars
3. Breast Cleavage check
4. Breast Bottom Check
5. Thigh Check
6. Booty Check

I am a perv but not a closeted one lol. I try to bring out the perv in everyone, especially the ladies since they can be nastier than men.

I have no clue about a Zbrush workflow.
I have Poser, Hexagon, my mind, and some fingers to work the keyboard. :-)

Interesting.

Likewise I think the stiflingly conservative forum obsession with photorealism in poser is equally pointless.

I think the realism obsession started as an innocent way to fix the Poser5 quirks and bugs when it came out with Firefly. Realism was the primer to make the material room behave. To make lights that rendered what your preview was showing.. etc. It was really exciting here in 2003-5 for me anyway. face_off came out with real skin shader. bagginsbill applied real math to the art of Poser nodes to come up with vss and predictable results... stewer came in and gleaned usable data from all the experiments going on to use in the next release. This was the realism thing... Once you can get something that works (rules), you can do just about anything else.. within the limits of the software... this is how I take it anyway. Then there's making the little 250.00$ app do occationally incredible things, factor.  

Now, so many years later it may not make sense to the casual viewer. I totally get it. There is a backstory to it though.

You want photorealism in art, look at a photograph.

Sure,,, but in cgi you get to make everything in your viewport, if you want. How you want. As far as you want to go.. Get more interactive challenge and stimulate the brainwaves... and keeps naked men in raincoats off the streets.

You have a point there, richardson. With the "naked men in raincoats" comment. Just take a look at all of the torture porn content that is available @ Renderotica... You have to wonder how many potential or actual serial killers are using this stuff as an outlet. I recall somehow ending up looking at a thread on a forum for a japanese hentai site that focused on poser porn with an emphasis on rape... Needless to say the participants comments were extremely matter-of-fact, and extremely creepy.

Ditto on some porn. As in any profession, some just lack a self-censorship button or limits for that matter.

I do own this thread so, dammit Zanzo... I must have gotten soft in the brain last night to start such a subject. X^P

Guys, you have to flag each post in which you either post nudity or quote a post with the nude image in it.  

IMHO, good things come in small packages, as the saying goes!

Richardson, I really would like to see the skin shader set up you have for the image you started this thread with! You have somehow controlled the 'over shiny' look I've been battling for months!

Hah! Life returns to this thread!

Latexluv,

It was a fail actually. The emitter was down to 2ambient. The shader was either quality 0.10 or 0.50. Distance to emitter helps. I corrected that a few clicks in paint app as well so it is degraded. I'll see if I can find it.

lesbentley,

You challenging me? ;D muah ha 

Here's what I found. Not sure if it's the same as I see the figure evolved a bit after this render..

Unless Victoria 5 genesis has fixed this?

Anyways, Richardson good find. Now we just need a permanent solution so we don't have to worry about this part in zbrush unless doing a touch up. I'd be happy with a basic version.

I wish Poser had an easy way to make injection files with custom morphs, I mean it's one OBJ file (yes i could just load it but i'm thinking about making the morph and relasing it as a freebie)

making an INJ file isn't that difficult... except for the whole 'compliance with Daz EULA' thing. The easiest solution to morph and inj woes is create your own custom morphs from scratch on a blank V4...or utilize a morph merchant resource. You could also release your morph as a MOR pose or dial spinner; which, except for the smoothing and perfect V4 fixes, I'm pretty sure it is.

Looks a lot like Milla Jovavich's torso in les bentley's images... now there is one gorgeous woman.

Looks a lot like Milla Jovavich's torso in les bentley's images... now there is one gorgeous woman

Totally agree. I have a FBM of her but her fingers got corrupted.*

Lesbently, that is about the same size I go for, and with some models, find it extremely frustrating when the mesh won't cooperate, but when going for cow udders, the morphs work flawlessly.  Look at the classical Greek and Roman statuary, you won't find any with udders.  Only in 3d graphics.

Saying nothing about realism either, to get my late teen, young adult figures, dial spin and morph brush on the PT.  Believeable, maybe.  Realistic, no.

D.

...I think that some of the combinations of the New Gravity Morphs look all right if used properly...

Blackhearted's Gnd4 small breast morph looks pretty good, also. Never really cared for the GND bodyshape though.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/i13-real-breast-morphs-for-v4/94079

These morphs offer a fair start toward achieving natural gravity in breasts (the gravity effect in the breast crease area).  Still, some work on geometry is needed and many V4 poses require time in Zbrush to get believable results.

Zanzo (sent you a PM).

Quote - > Quote - And there's the reason the not so closet pervs and realism junkies have wanted some kind of soft body dynamic system for a few years, now. The structural complexities simply can't be addressed consistently any other way. Z-brush may make it possible to sculpt something realistic......so long as you don't mind doing it for each and every figure. And you have photo references so you know -what- to sculpt. And sbd is the only practical method if you intend to animate things....

you don't have to be a perv junkie.

just be an animator is enough and need of more realism.

Oh, I know. That's my main impetus. But when you say 'animation' around here the reactions range from 'huh?' to 'Ewwww!!!'. Bringing the sex angle into it at least gets others to look at what you are talking about. Digital Bimbo Barbie with the Bouncing Boobies is easier to parse than the issues we have in animation.....particularly dealing with mesh compromises like the tit shelf built into V4. Maybe one day...... 

Quote - Sorry about the venom of my last post, need to get some sleep... sweet dreams.

No prob. I want the issues settled or dealt with for animation purposes....which is one of the quicker ways to kill things around here. Bring in the hormones, though, and people at least listen and look at the problem..... 

Quote - Here's an old FBM where I really modified the ribs to try to get a specific character.

richardson, those look like seriously delicious breasts, in fact the whole character looks good, though perhaps the rib cage looks pulled back a bit too much around the bottom of the breasts, though perhaps thats just the pose.

Even the morphbrush should work. Heck, I used to create all my sculpts with just magnets in ye olden days.

These four morphs are based on the 3rd gen mesh which is even denser than the 4th gen mesh.

Best way to create "tiny" boobs is to first make a clean slate by completely flattening the chest. Then you can "grow" them bigger like they do in real live.

That works better in my opinion than trying to fix Vicky's default boobshape.

;-)

Les,

Your pics would require a displacement map. She is really fit and cut. The mesh does not always flow like you hope. Custom joint fixes as well...  She's a beaut though.

Yes, her chest is forward to straighten her back.. V4 has a lot of curve in back.

Joe,

Wow, never went that far. How did you do it? Smooth? Did you UVs survive ok?

Right is V4 completely "de-boobed" using the MorphBrush. The new flattening brush is a great help, btw.

Left are some new breasts done with seven magnets. No DAZ morphs at all.

Could be better, but I just wanted to proof it can be done without leaving Poser.

:-)

Thanks Richard.

No problems with the UV's as long as you don't use a texture with painted on "underboob shadows".

No problems with the UV's as long as you don't use a texture with painted on "underboob shadows".

I really messed up the "areola" uvs more than a few times in Zbrush when I was trying to get results. I cannot produce data but I'm guessing excessive smoothing over chest/areola zones were responsible. I wish they were not separate. Nor the lips nostrils, eyesockets or even lacrimals.

Zanzo is going to love this new thread "development" ;)))

Quote - Zanzo is going to love this new thread "development" ;)))

:lol:
Yes, I guess I have a lot to answer for! Or perhaps its the lack of a lot, that I have to answer for?

Yep. Smoothing can easily crumple areas where low res parts meet hi res parts of the mesh.

I use tweak and flatten to get the general shape. I use smooth only to relax the parts of the mesh I messed up a little.

Leslie, and thanks richardson.

P.S.

The pubes are also very impressive! Is that available somewhere?

Is that available somewhere?

Sorry. Filed under a new name. There is a "brazilian" , a "full" , a "neat" in the prop file. Maybe someone will recognise it... It's pretty old now.

WAIT..." Merkin" .......gawd wait till I'm eighty...

Thought I would give the morph brush a whirl with V4.

Doesn't take to long to get a decent morph. The topology does present some problems with textures thou. The areas you really should use for the folds are not where they normally would have tanlines, etc.

Attached Link: PH for Antonia

I made something similar for Antonia. As it is a prop one should be able to reposition it and also to resize it to fit every figure.

Try to download it here: http://3d.ulliswelt.com/3d-dateien/Downloads/Antonia/AntoniaPH.zip

Nice! Thanks.

Yeah, I have that 'Merkin' prop, too. ChristianDarkin's @ renderotica.

Quarker (the creator of Sapphire Fox Hair) also made a really nice free one intended for A3 and Ty2 which can also be used with V4 with a little adjustment.

http://quarker.blog5.fc2.com/blog-category-2.html

I've found that a Transmapped Multiplane one sided prop with textures works best for close cropped effects, the strand based props tend to be a little sparse or too horizontally wirey (somewhat remedied by an underlying texture).