V5 and V6 were subdivided using Poser's own subdivision. SP3 was not.

I'm pretty sure V5 and V6 bend better in Studio, but some bend fixes appear to be lost during the DSON import.
And while they of course still bend better than plain V4, they don't bend as well as a figure rigged especially for Poser can.
"One size fits all" rigging is another factor here, too.

The bending could be relatively easily fixed with some additional JCMs and weightmap tweaking, and that's exactly what I had originally planned.
But now I will of course rather concentrate on the new "Dawn" figure.

So, Genesis I and II do work in Poser if you really, really want to use them.
But they won't bend nearly as good as a "native" Poser figure can, unless you do some fixing.

Personally, I'll rather keep working on my own figures and of course I can't wait to give "Dawn" a try.

Would have been nice to re-rig and fix Genesis I to have its full shape-shifting functionality in Poser, but with the arrival of Genesis II, Genesis I feels outdated already.
And if I put work into a figure, I rather work with something I have the feeling it is the best available.
Genesis II on the other hand brings only very few improvements and it looses all the shape shifting ability that made Genesis I stand out.

The sculpting is a wee bit better compared to Genesis I, but the 2000 additional vertices don't really make a huge difference. To make her look as detailed as V4 or V3/SP3, you'd need at least 20.000 more.

Oh, and yes, V5 and V6's arms are definitely too short.This is not an easy fix in Poser, as the DSON importer breaks Genesis' scaling.
To fix it, the scaling blend zones have to be re-created and adjusted using the Joint Editor.

OMG..that's ghastly. LOL

I think ur custom SP3 works better all the way around...lol. More realistic proportions and looks (my gawd, Vicky 6 is a flippin amazon) well, just plain looks better than the other two. Not really knocking Gene...it wasn't made to be used natively in Poser like SP3 was ;). Of course, your customizations can't be beat. Heh.

Laurie

Interesting.  SP3 defnitely bends better in your images.  (And is V6 really that much taller than the others?)

Would be interesting to see how they look in DAZ Studio. 

BTW and holy mergatroid....Vicky got BACK, doesn't she? LOL

Laurie

I still prefer my PosetteV3!  By the way, I made a V3 remap for Vicky 2!  You might like to check out how my Vicky2V3 would bend in comparison to the others.

dph

Wouldn't need much to bring her up to modern standards unless you expect her to be as limber as a Yoga master. (V2's default shoulders are actually better than V3's)

BTW, for those really sad about not being able to use V6 in Poser, here's a (very) little consolation:

Load Jessi 6, then do this:

Head = Scale 106%
Neck = yScale 94%
Chest = xScale 106%, yScale 97%
Hip = xScale 108%, yScale 103%
Thighs = xScale 115%
Shins = yScale 97%
Feet +Toes = Scale 118%

See, almost there...

With a prettier headmorph, ol' Jessi can be "just like Vicky 6".

(And you even get the short arms for free..)

;-)

Hell of a suntan on that girl. LOLOL

And yep, always thought Jesse's arms were way too short ;).

Laurie

V6 arms up in DS.

Quote - > Quote - Interesting.  SP3 defnitely bends better in your images.  (And is V6 really that much taller than the others?)

Would be interesting to see how they look in DAZ Studio. 

V6 arms up in DS.

conclusion...V6 in poser is not V6 anymore...she is...something else... :)

I'll notify Daz about this and see what can be fixed.

Quote - V6 arms up in DS.

Thanks!  Still doesn't look as good as Joe's Steph.  That weird flat section between her neck and shoulder looks very unnatural.

However, it does look much, much better than V6 in Poser.

I suspect V5/6's butt doesn't explode when you bend her legs in DS as shown in Joe's Poser image.  Just judging from the promo pics I've seen.

To me, this illustrates pretty clearly that it's time for a divorce.  :-)  Trying to maintain compatibility hurts both DS and Poser. 

Actually Daz was notified about it and it is being addressed:) The bulge maps for some reason are not coming over.

Quote - Actually Daz was notified about it and it is being addressed:) The bulge maps for some reason are not coming over.

But V5 looks just as bad as V6, so if the problem is with the importer, it's a long-existing problem that has still not been fixed.

And the old-tech SP3 looks better in Poser than V6 does in DS. 

Well thats what updates are for lol...they have been made aware of the issue..If nobody submits a bug report things will get overlooked. EG like V4's exploding ass in Poser 102014. Somebody notified SM, and the issue was addressed.

You know, in fairness, human arms aren't raised that way - not without breaking the shoulders. If you try to raise your arms from your sides like that, they don't go much above the shoulder at all. To raise the arms naturally, they need to twist at the shoulder, leaving the armpit facing forward. I would be interested to see how they compare that way.

Still, I have to say that SP3 remains a favourite of mine - I always thought that she was the better looking of the 3rd gen family, both in face and with the more natural body shape.

"But V5 looks just as bad as V6, so if the problem is with the importer, it's a long-existing problem that has still not been fixed."

Indeed.

Genesis I's joints never looked good in Poser, but my plan was to keep the joint centers and just redo the rest once I could create a "stable" cr2 with a permanent object file, not the temporary one DSON generates each time Genesis is loaded.

Studio-Poser rigging compatibility was never 100% perfect anyway, not even in the Poser 7/8 - Studio 3.0 days, so I took the bad joints as a given limitation of the DSON conversion.

If DAZ can fix it, all the better. There are a few non-human Genesis characters I'd like to use in Poser.

"And the old-tech SP3 looks better in Poser than V6 does in DS."

Thanks !

I think DAZ compromised on the rigging to make cloth creation and conversion easier. Most people don't seem to mind, so from a buisiness point of view, that probably was the right decision.

But I do my own cloth conversions, so I don't mind if it takes a little longer.

:-)

"You know, in fairness, human arms aren't raised that way - not without breaking the shoulders."

For Vicky 5 and Vicky 6, I simply used DAZ' own "Arms Up-Down" dial that you can find under "Pose-Controls" in her body actor.

SP3 was then posed manually to match that pose.

Quote - You know, in fairness, human arms aren't raised that way - not without breaking the shoulders. If you try to raise your arms from your sides like that, they don't go much above the shoulder at all. To raise the arms naturally, they need to twist at the shoulder, leaving the armpit facing forward. I would be interested to see how they compare that way.

If I put my palms facing forward, I can raise my arms from my sides over my head...Actually, I just tried it with my palms facing inward at the bottom (and thus outward at the top) and can do it.  Perhaps I'm a mutant..

Quote - > Quote - Interesting.  SP3 defnitely bends better in your images.  (And is V6 really that much taller than the others?)

Would be interesting to see how they look in DAZ Studio. 

V6 arms up in DS.

broken arms?  why haven't the collars moved up. even V4 default has better 'Arms-up' posing.

Oops, forgot to move the collars fully lol. Was in a hurry when I did that example..Here is one with collar movement. She also has lats and shoulder morphs, but I just used her as is.

Oh dear....what's it look like with morphs? As is doesn't look all that stellar ;). Of course, every Poser figure in existence looks bad with the arms up, don't they? LOL

Laurie

What is the polycount of V3 vs. V4 vs. Genesis 1 and 2?

Polygon Counts:

Posette:                                 17100

Dork:                                     19368/19408  (Genitals on/off)

V2/MilGirls:                            29704

M2/Stephanie I :                     34700/34322  (Genitals on/off)

V3/M3/SP3/D3/A3/H3/F3 etc:  75230

V4/M4/K4:                              67550

Genesis 1:                     Cage: 19592  SubD: 75488

Genesis 2:                     Cage: 21818   SubD: 85253

Thanks!  They posted the stats for Dawn, and I was wondering how it compared to Genesis.  Couldn't find a polycount for Genesis anywhere, though.

Dawn looks like she'll drop in between Genesis and V4:

Total Vertices:39096
Total Triangles:1702
Total Quads:37624
Total Faces:39326

Hmmm...Wonder why so many triangles? Will have to see the mesh to see what that is all about. Might be an issue making morphs if positioned incorrectly on the mesh. I preffer working in quads.

"Wonder why so many triangles?"

Maybe because Firefly isn't a gaming engine ?

Maybe because Chris Creek knows what he's doing ?

;-)

Seriously, Firefly doesn't mind quads, tris, poles or even n-gons.

And Poser's SubD doesn't care either.

And there is a gazillion of Poser stuff around, including figures, that has lots of tris. Some clothes are even made out of tris only.

And they all work beautifully.

Sometimes "old school" still is the best school.

:-)

"If they think you're crude, go technical; if they think you're technical, go crude. I'm a very technical boy. So I decided to get as crude as possible."

I hope so..I have seen some weird effects from bad placed tri's before. Hope these are all good. And ye, sometimes old school aint bad either.

So why does RorrKonn say that meshes should be 100% quads to work with SubD, like Rex and Roxy?

Just curious.  I have done a little modelling, but nothing past the point of "Yay, it kind of looks like a mushroom!"  Never got to the point where I actually worried about what kind of polys there were.

Don't know.

I only care what works in Poser. Quads are good, but often tris have advantages, too.

Pic shows the M2 topology. As you can see, Poser has no problem subdividing that "messy" mesh.

Thanks!  Maybe RorrKonn is exporting the figures to some other program.  It sure doesn't look like the tris are pinching there.