I'm crap at sitting on my hands when something I see in a forum agitates me. I've improved with age, but then, there was room for improvement, too.

And I think a lot of the people who has used and LOVED Poser for the past 10+ years tend to develope a sort of .. feeling... attachment if you like, to the program. And dislikes it getting dissed by various upstarts.

Because we KNOW that this is the POSER forum. I tmay have branched out to even include the Upstart program ;) as well as various modeling applications. But it started off as the POSER forum, and I must admit it sorta annoys me when I see one question after another IN THE POSER FORUM about how to make this-and-that work in other programs. Especicially when those Other Programs have their very own subforums here.

I wouldn't expect an answer to a Hexagon- or Photoshop related question in the Poser forum, not even if the end result is MEANT for Poser. I'd use the proper forums. I kinda thought that's what they were here for in the first place...

Then again.. I've been away from Rosity for over a year, and I do notice that this place is just the husk of what it used to be. Back then you could spend the day here, because there was always new posts with questions you might be able to answer, or answers to something you'd been wondering. Now.. I can check in once a day and find 2 new posts...

A forum that isn't lively isn't appealing. In the end everybody will check in once a week.. meaning that it'll take a week or more to get an answer to a simple question.. and no one is going to wait for that, and ultimately, the forum dies (this is put VERY rough, I know, and lucikly we're not there yet.. and I hope we'll never get there!)

This is THE only poser forum I've ever felt at home in (well except for RM, but they're dead and gone) and it's THE place I'd go for a technical question. But only as long as an answer can beexpected in a timely manner (and don't get me wrong, I'm NOT expecting anyone to just SIT here and wait for me to snap my fingers so they can answer MY question - but I DO expect "people" to be round here for input at least. Again. for the time being, they still ARE. but the forum, IMO, IS slowly dying... and that saddens me, because then where will I go? Npt to  The Upstart's forum and.. when all good is said about RDNA - and it IS a great place.. i've just never felt that as "home"

This is home. And I want my OLD home back! As much as I want my youth and innocence back! reaching for the sky here ;)

Quote - Short version, it's not because they're artists, or computer types, it's because they're crybaby dickheads who need a fucking good slap. 

Thanks for saying what have thought many times.

I can see becoming emotionally attached to objects. I can think of a few reasons why. Myself, poser is therapy. It helps with my mental issues and acts as a get away from RL. Yes there are other outlets for me and no I won't die if I didn't have poser, thought having to spend the last several days not being able to use it at all has made my unpleasent at times. :biggrin: I don't take it out here though and more than I take out my frustrations from work out here.

Quote - The only things I ever have any emotional attachment to are living beings.  Anything else is just stuff.

I hate it when people post song lyrics to a forum, but you've made me think of "Electricity", by Pere Ubu.

Quote - Cities are stones
People aren't important
People breed and die
They come and they go
Faithless

But stones are true
They don't die
They don't go anywhere, either

Substitute "Poser" (or whatever the obsession may be) for "stones".  :unsure:

I think there's probably a good dose of emotional displacement involved.  Coping strategies maybe get a bit out of hand.  People are strange, complicated, and varied.  Well, I am, anyway.

This post was probably completely unnecessary.  Your point is a good one.  We need to try to behave better, many of us, myself included.  :thumbupboth: 

Cage:

There are still such people around. I do have my preferred programs-but no animus towards those HEATHENS WHO DARE USE DS! Just kidding.

Joe

I remember a time when ANY nudity had to be on the one time sister forum-'Otica before it split completelely-and Nekkid Vicky in a Temple With a Dragon was allowed (with alerts) on Osity.

Ah good times! I forgot about the "Legume" wars, I think I was too busy editing Cr2's in a text editor to be much involved. Which side were you on? Just kidding-there may still be someone on the OTHER side reading this.

I remember Willow's Poser Forum Online-and then Renderosity-which I lost my first membership in (forgot my Too fancy user name-went for an easier one to remember! :-)

Cage- I weighed in on the benefits of The Millenium Woman-but I don't recall criticizing the Posette users. I had a favorite Lemurtek cat woman character at the time.

Quote - Been this way since the great battle of Possette Vs Vicky1.

The only "Poser" moderate is the silent lurker.

Artist are ALWAYS a particularly moody group. I had a friend who worked at Pearl Paint in NYC, and there is at least one fist fight per week between two artists on some miniscule ideological difference like a shade of burnt sienna, or what order of positive, negative, positive, to final cast is better for what material.

Been on PoserPros, and half a dozen other boards that folded up shop.

I remember hand editing OBJ files exported from Lightwave in a text editor to be able to rig them with god knows what tool we were using in 1999.

Been here for 14 years. I fought in the Dr. Legume wars. ;-)

It’s summer. The economy sucks, and artists are usually very passionate, socially inept, people. “Poserites” are no different.

In few years only the people with hurt feeling will remember, and they won’t remember why.

(Unless they put links to it in their signature.) ;-)

Quote - Cage- I weighed in on the benefits of The Millenium Woman-but I don't recall criticizing the Posette users. I had a favorite Lemurtek cat woman character at the time.

Wait... umm.  When were we talking about Posette?  I'm confused.  Or maybe I have missing time (Slenderman paranoia ensues :lol:).  Oh, wait.  You're talking about the old Vicky controversies, when the figure was first released, right?  What was she almost named?  Millie?  :unsure:

Posette users are fine by me.  :laugh:  I only use Antonia, these days, but I would use Posette, if the right situation arose.  Or almost any other figure, really, if I were ever to get around to actually composing final renders.  I get really caught up in fiddle-tweak adjustments to existing projects, then distracted by Python and Poser Techie stuff.  :lol:  I love Poser for all the Poser Techie tweaks it allows.  So many fun options.  :woot:

 Yep-my Lemurtek character was Posette! And I do remember people called her Millie since Zygote was touting Victoria as "The Millenium Woman."

OH My- How could I forget the Slenderman Paranoia issues? Dang. Good times.

You do some great techie stuff.

Quote - > Quote - Cage- I weighed in on the benefits of The Millenium Woman-but I don't recall criticizing the Posette users. I had a favorite Lemurtek cat woman character at the time.

Wait... umm.  When were we talking about Posette?  I'm confused.  Or maybe I have missing time (Slenderman paranoia ensues :lol:).  Oh, wait.  You're talking about the old Vicky controversies, when the figure was first released, right?  What was she almost named?  Millie?  :unsure:

Posette users are fine by me.  :laugh:  I only use Antonia, these days, but I would use Posette, if the right situation arose.  Or almost any other figure, really, if I were ever to get around to actually composing final renders.  I get really caught up in fiddle-tweak adjustments to existing projects, then distracted by Python and Poser Techie stuff.  :lol:  I love Poser for all the Poser Techie tweaks it allows.  So many fun options.  :woot:

"I'm not quite sure what it means, but somehow I'd like to see a Poser render of the image this invokes." – Heh, heh when in Rome …

"A new generation of people who have grown up online and operate by a somewhat different set of assumptions about the way people communicate through text.."  

I knew mortality had a purpose. It relieves the old from having to suffer the follies of the young for too long.

"In the end, even as our tolerance for each other and for the differences among us improves with every generation, everyone these days, offline and on, seems a little less patient and a little more judgmental about the small things."

A great irony or it just proves that people will find something to argue about. If it ain’t teh gays, it’s teh Genesis – go figure.

"I also don't buy the "temperamental artist" schtick, either. It's an overused expression to excuse childish behaviour from people who'd probably get punched in the face in real life."

Agreed. The "Eccentric" artist/genius etc. gig is a nice one if you can get it. Sometimes the very people who should be intelligent enough to see through the dodge seem most enamored of catering to it. Of course, they also pay big bucks for embalmed cow ‘art’ so I suppose it works out. There are a some extremely talented people who are also genuinely impaired. You can have 10 million drunks, and suicides though, but one Hemingway etc. makes a stereotype.

"When Poser 9 and Genesis were both coming out, there was some talk about "rescuing Poser", with what was probably some hysteria. Others may similarly be concerned that Poser is moving in some undesirable direction …"

That’s the part I find hard to understand. Microsoft has made changes that arguably in some way had a negative effect on me professionally and even personally, but I’ve never felt the level of anger about that I’ve seen expressed here – or are people just acting. Without Poser, I would never have satisfied my any of my 'artistic' itch after my talent topped out in 2nd grade. I’m grateful and even though I’ll put my isolated,  computer dependent, neurotic credentials up against anyone's, the prospect of some change in Poser doesn’t drench me in a cold sweat or make me froth at the mouth. Peg me for insufficient loyalty I guess.

"I wouldn't expect an answer to a Hexagon- or Photoshop related question in the Poser forum, not even if the end result is MEANT for Poser. I'd use the proper forums. I kinda thought that's what they were here for in the first place…"

Seriously? So to find out about making a Poser map in PhotoShop one has to go to the PhotoShop forum? If you want to put a Poser figure in a Vue scene or use a Vue background in Poser, where do you post. Sorry Trekkie that just seems needlessly isolationist and I think it is a part of the problem – dividing people by application rather than uniting them around a common interest. For better or worse, this has always been the most used forum and people who want their questions answered in a timely fashion (or at all) – just as you do – post here. There was a nice little thread the other day about using a Poser environment vs. Vue and Carrara got mentioned as well. I learned some things about all three as, I think did the other folks. I’d hate to lose that kind of experience because Poser users want to lock themselves away in a tower. Let your hair down Rapunzel ÷)

As an example, I just pointed someone looking for seam guides to SnowSultan’s. You all know his work and the contributions he's made to the ‘community. Good thing I looked them up and didn’t just point the person to freestuff. I found out that he pulled his stuff here, and is fairly frank in saying the reason was the negative stuff here because he uses DS. Now I don’t know who said what to who of how any blame should be apportioned, but it sounds like a valuable member lost due to the atmosphere here. Of course he uses DS so who cares, though I was happy to snag his Smacky character for V4 - despite the contamination - Oh hell, because of it :-) 

I guess I worded it badly :) It was late, I was tired. I didn't mean it to come put as isolationistic, but I agree it did.

What i meant was more along the lines of DS people coming in here asking DS questions. But I'm not sure I could say that with the new rules iin place. I will dare so anyway. Of course, some people DO use both programs. I don't.

Yeah, I agree about completely off the wall posts, though one still has to account for new users groping their way around. A polite pointer in the right direction is always nice.

It's unfortunate that the other forums don't get as much traffic, even things like 'Poser Technical' if that still exists, the questions end up here. This is kind of like the crossroads, maybe like living in NYC where you're liable to see or hear anything from anywhere in the world at any given time. It's a great opportunity to find out about things you wouldn't otherwise. Who knew there were Danish women with an uncanny knowledge of vernacular American English - our plan for culturaL imperialist domination has succeeded. I suppose it can get annoying if you're trying to find Poser stuff though.

If you still have "a life" with a spouse and friends and interresting things you can do outside the house, be thankful for it.

But there are circumstances that can make having "a life" pretty much impossible in a society that solely focuses on the healthy and wealthy.

So maybe, just maybe to some of us 3D art (and thus Poser) might be a wee bit more important in their "non-life" than to others.

I also said it before, the biggest problem is that some look at the Poser forum as their private chat channel and thus feel annoyed at the slightest hint of "controversy", while others really try to seriously discuss Poser and further their knowledge and share the progress they made with others.

I can be an asshat, but usually only if I have the feeling that people don't even bother to read what I wrote, less alone try to understand it and just like to troll for teh lulz because they feel like it.

Yes, there are forums that are more civilized, like http://www.missing-lynx.com/dg.htm for example where both hobbyists as well as professional historians and military scale modellers hang out.

Of course there are fractions and disagrements, but they are all united by a common goal:

Further the knowledge about WW-1 and 2 Military equipment and building more realistic, more exact, more true-to-live scale models.

(The only time things get really nasty is if a kit company releases a new model and still misses a few details or messes up the correct dimensions.)

But this "common goal" for Poser is missing, and not even Smith Micro seems to be so sure in what direction they actually want the journey to go.

i like poser.  and beer.  sometimes both together.

Quote - i like poser.  and beer.  sometimes both together.

Heh.. and that, in a nutshell was my problem last night. Too much of both I think L 

These complains come up now and then, mostly from the old core who has been around for a while. How about "And why do you look at the splinter in your brother's eye, and not notice the beam which is in your own eye?" The vicious attacks on the Daz company surpass anything I have seen in many years from various forums. And I could quote some remarks by the originator of this thread and fairly recently too. What goes around comes around. Please look to yourself first. Change occurs in our lives most people are dragged kicking and screaming into the future.

Hey, vintorix.  I note that I am flawed and that my behavior isn't always up to the highest standard.  I'm not trying to take any kind of absolutist stance here, and I'm not really complaining about the tone of the forums, although the matter prompted some of my thoughts.  I'm not trying to set myself, or anyone, up as special.  I'm not taking sides.  My core thought, what seems most important to me in the musings I posted intially, would be that we don't all need to use Poser the same way.  It is varied, it offers creative options.  We can all use it differently and find our own "correct" way of doing a number of things that are often discussed as if there could only be one perfect, absolutely correct approach.  That's what seems important to me, as I read it back.  If people want to engage in heated discussions on various topics, there's presumably room for that at any forum, and sometimes such discussions can be constructive or productive.

Feel free to dredge up my imperfections and parade my foibles for all to see.  I am not happy about a lot of my own posts.  I am not altogether very bright, ultimately.  Sometimes I surprise myself with a bit of intelligence or some breakthrough, but often I am pretty dense.  I miss the point a lot, I ask stupid questions, I think I'm funny when I'm not, I get over-excited and lose my cool.  It happens.  The most frustrating point for me is that I can't subjectively tell whether I am being smart or stupid, most of the time.  It feels the same to me.  I have some issues.

I am sorry if my muddle-headed musings have somehow bothered you.  I'm not trying to be contentious or start a row.  (I want the shruggy guy again.)  Poser is a wonderful thing.  :thumbupboth:

Quote - i like poser.  and beer.  sometimes both together.

Oh, man.  Dangerous combination.  :lol:  I think I am amazingly funny, when I drink, which is not often.  I began avoiding forums while drinking after I thought I was being funny in one of the PFO war threads, way back when.  The next day I realized I was probably engaged in bog-standard trolling.  Oh dear.  :sad:

Cage I am terrible sorry I made a most horrible mistake I mistakenly though of another person (which shall be nameless) as originator, not you who have never showed anything than correct behavior. I apologize one thousands times!

Quote - Cage I am terrible sorry I made a most horrible mistake I mistakenly though of another person (which shall be nameless) as originator, not you who have never showed anything than correct behavior. I apologize one thousands times!

No problem.  Your point could probably be applied to many, if not most, of us on the forum, and certainly to me.  I have, in the past, posted vaguely partisan thoughts on Daz Studio, for instance, but I don't have much I can say on the topic that would be valid.  I don't use it and never have (I haven't had any need), and don't really use Daz figures much at all.  That is just the way I use Poser.  I'm a big fan of Antonia, because the figure is open and can be used more freely than the copyright-controlled figures.  At any rate, it wouldn't be hard to find forum posts by Cage which cast him in a bad light.  There are loads of them, oh my.  :lol:

That's proper gentlemanly behaviour from you two guys.  

this forum is much tamer than other forums Ive used. I used to post a lot on the Warmoth guitar building forum (unofficialwarmoth.com) but havnt in a while. too many rednecks and any post could be hijacked by a troll or de-evolve into political bashing.

Joe, I can absolutely understand & identify with anyone who, by choice or circumstance, finds Poser, gardening, their cat etc. an encompassing involvement. Not everyone is fortunate enough to enjoy the bliss of hearth & home, kith & kin, yada, yada. We all know that even those things are far from blissful for some. My only point is that some of the irrational (my characterization) stuff about company Z, figure X I just can’t understand. It’s like people rioting over a soccer game. If someone insults your wife, kicks your dog I can see it. If you’re talking about human trafficking, worker safety in Bangladesh or something else where peoples lives or welfare are in the balance then I can see it – may not always be appropriate but I can understand. Software – and I’ve been pretending to write code for longer than I care to think about – that I don’t get. But, I can’t walk in anyone else’s shoes, so I accept that it is what it is for them.

Pointless conflict, as opposed to creative tension, is the exact antitheses to the type of common vision you mention and the kind of collaborative atmosphere that would bring it about. Absolutely new ideas are needed, but frankly, sometimes creators aren’t the best salesmen (and yes ideas have to be sold, like it or not). They often have a tendency to believe that the obvious excellence of their creations speaks for itself and anyone who doesn’t recognize that is either a dullard or a villain. How many ‘’ultimate’ figures have we seen sink under the weight of that reality? As soon as one person comes out with a pronouncement that they have the truth and everything else is, at best, suspect, someone else is going to challenge them with equal certitude and suddenly you have more heat being generated than light.

You’re some handicapped in that (as far as I can see) you are presenting more of a concept and a technique, rather than a product. That and the fact that you’ve apparently hit on a fault line in terms of 3D philosophy. I have no freaking idea how many polygons are ‘optimum’ or what texture sizes or what kind of rigging. Common sense tells me there is probably no one answer, no matter how loudly the two or three sides argue in their own favor. It never seems to get beyond the point of back and forth, and the theological disputes seem disconnected from the average punter’s reality. It may be interesting and even informative in a general way, but after the 14th inning with the score tied at zip, maybe the fans in cheap seats start to throw a few beer cups and the boo birds come out. That’s baseball. I see you get a fair amount of praise for your work. If you feel abused or ignored, whether or not you subscribe to the theology, consider you’re in good company:

“And Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.” Mark 6:4

“The most frustrating point for me is that I can't subjectively tell whether I am being smart or stupid, most of the time. It feels the same to me.”

The most thought provoking thing I've read in some time. Profound indeed sir, and words we can all live by. We only have other people’s subjective response to tell us whether we are excreted a jewel or a turd. Then we filter that according to whether we think the other fellow is a prince or a putz. Factor in the innertubes lack of visual, auditory and olfactory feedback (can we really ‘smell’ fear?) and the whole thing’s worse than a crap shoot from the get go. All the more reason to at least have a pleasant time and reserve the ball-sack kicking for matters that at least rise to the import of Jeanie Or Samantha? Sorry, but nothing in Poser reaches IMO.

The french has a word for it, panache

No one likes more than me someone who shows off and excel, an expert modeler, a specialist who want to be an authority. But just adding polygons doesn't impress me. Instead take the Frock coat in Rosemary's "Frock coat and Pants for M4",

http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/freestuff/160/frock-coat-and-pants-for-m4

and retop it in a fabulous mosaic or quilting pattern. Based on the beauty and the pattern of the edge flows, then I might get impressed.

Ah, the golden times of days gone by. Selection bias and all that.

Personally I don't get heated over things immaterial (nor material for that matter) and generally don't care enough to post my opinions, but I'm not sure the frequency or vitriol of posts and threads have increased noticeably. But then again I'm not reading every thread ever written here. I remember some not-so-pretty issues from the past spreading from forum to forum even although perhaps the number of posters with an axe to grind has grown.

Years and years back Rosity even had a sort of "gloves off" subforum of sorts, but it was shut down due to unpleasantries if I remember correctly.

lmckenzie, the problem is simply this:

If realism isn't built into a figure right from the start, it's nigh impossible to add it later on.

So, unless I build my very own mesh exactly the way it'd needed to be built, I'll have to convince others that still have the energy and health to finish such a project to do that instead.

Sadly, both SM and DAZ moved away from realism and now put the emphasis on easy content creation.

And the 3rd party figure artists mostly want to create a figure they can imprint some of their own personality on and not create a neutral 'tool" for others to use.

And I don't have the money to have a mesh custom made after my own specifications.

So all I can do is throw some pictures out and tell people:

1. Realism is possible even in Poser.

2. If you want it, here's how to achieve it.

Sadly, those two simple concepts seem to be to hard to understand for most people.

Instead they act as if I want to take beautiful Vicky away and replace it with some fugly old hag.

As for the DAZ vs TheRestOfTheWorld skirmishes...

Remember I was mostly on the receiving end as I was always PRO BETTER FIGURES, regardless who made them.

That's just human nature. DAZ gave a lot of people a very rude awakening, and if I ever find the time to search through the old DAZ forums, I can show you the exact post where I predicted years ago not just the actual rift but also the wailing and gnashing of teeth that followed.

Don't forget that "fan" is derived from "fanatic", and unlike many other "My choice is better than your choice" conflicts, the Poserverse actually was directly influenced by DAZ' decision, so on an emotional level, the anger of the Poser users was completely justified.

You can't just make people addicted to your products and then simply pull out the plug expecting them to say "Thanks for the nice times we had" and then just go away.

The only problem is that anger alone isn't very helpful and that the energy was wasted on "community projects" which never had a real chance to give Poser true independence.

(As I said, if "realism" - and versatility-  isn't built right into a mesh from the very first polygon, it is impossible to add it later.)

Quote - Sorry, but nothing in Poser reaches IMO.

I agree with this, pretty much, but I also know that I can end up being... a little bit out of control, sometimes.  Part of not being able to tell whether I'm being bright or a dope is not being able to tell when I'm losing control a bit.  It's usually evident after the fact, but Renderosity is a place which doesn't allow after-the-fact post editing or deletion.  :lol:  If you can't "check yourself" in the moment, you can end up being stuck with a post you regret.  Which is largely why my posting history is full of dodgy material.  :unsure:  If I clamp down and try to be sure I'm in control all the time, I lose faith in my ability to state anything at all, and just don't have the confidence to post.  Man, it's frustrating.  :lol:  A worst case, for me, may be when I recognize that I'm losing control of myself and panic, try to clamp down and assert some control, but end up behaving very badly in the midst of that.  I need to work on knowing when to step away from something, obviously.  Hmm.

I am spending way too much time in this thread babbling about myself.  Umm.

Quote - It's usually evident after the fact, but Renderosity is a place which doesn't allow after-the-fact post editing or deletion.    If you can't "check yourself" in the moment, you can end up being stuck with a post you regret.  Which is largely why my posting history is full of dodgy material.    If I clamp down and try to be sure I'm in control all the time, I lose faith in my ability to state anything at all, and just don't have the confidence to post.

I tend to get this way sometimes and an easy fix for me is to do all my typing in notepad first, wait 5 mins, read what i've writen and only post if I still feel the same way. I find that this lets me avoid posts I will regret later on.

Quote - I tend to get this way sometimes and an easy fix for me is to do all my typing in notepad first, wait 5 mins, read what i've writen and only post if I still feel the same way. I find that this lets me avoid posts I will regret later on.

That is a very good suggestion!  :woot:  Thank you.

Mods are very happy to delete any posts that you regret. Just ask.

Quote - Mods are very happy to delete any posts that you regret. Just ask.

I think maybe... 2003 through 2005, and almost everything since early 2012.  With the odd extra thrown in, here and there.  Actually, it's probably good that we can't delete our posts, or many old topics would be swiss cheese.  :lol:

I wasn't aware that we could request this.  Thank you.  I am glad to know this policy.

Quote - Mods are very happy to delete any posts that you regret. Just ask.

You do not have that kind of time unles you can whack and entire account with a keystroke. :D

Quote - > Quote - Mods are very happy to delete any posts that you regret. Just ask.

You do not have that kind of time unles you can whack and entire account with a keystroke. :D

ROFL... I was refering to things just a few hours to a day old. The stuff that's been here forever is part of what you have to live down! :) Believe me... I know... am SO tempted to delete some of the stuff that I posted before becoming a Mod!

Here is a link to some good information for those interested in removing the negativity from this forum.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2869540

Quote - this forum is much tamer than other forums Ive used. I used to post a lot on the Warmoth guitar building forum (unofficialwarmoth.com) but havnt in a while. too many rednecks and any post could be hijacked by a troll or de-evolve into political bashing.

Harmony Central guitar forums were like that.  So much so, a bunch of us left and formed our own community.  Much better.  No trolls and not too many fights.

I think the world in general is becoming far more polarized. I dont know why that is. Maybe because people just have too much time on their hands. People who are frustrated with their lives for some reason need to engage in oneupmanship. Similar I think to "road rage"

I think people who have little power or influence in their lives try and find it where the pickens are easy and the risk are low. I also think people who dont have a well formed self image and are not really comfortable with how they fit into the world. They try and find this by aligning themselves with some group or idea. The proliferation of gangs for instance.

This, which software is better debate is kind of a gang mentality.

I started out using Poser. I tried Daz and found its interface unfamiliar and confusing. I really didnt take the time to learn it. I'm sure circumstances could just as easily been the reverse. It is what it is.

I remember older times.

Ha- The old PC versus MAC discussions.

Modern people are more vocal. More "individuals".

Me and myself, home alone behind my PC. You home alone in your home, behind your MAC?

Then I just "have" to fight you. LOL.

You have a cat?  I have a dog.
You have a Nvidea? i have a ATI card.
You have an AMD? I have an Intel.

Any reason is a reason.

Recently, I went back.
Back to facts and figures.
No discussions any more.

Facts and figures.

happy Posering you all.

Quote - Recently, I went back.
Back to facts and figures.
No discussions any more.

Just one problem here, Tony...

You know for a fact that low-poly figures are the best/most usable for your renders. You can demonstrate it by the result of your renders.

I know that high poly figures are the best/most usable in my renders. I can demonstrate this by the results of my renders.

Which of us is right?

Truth is, neither statemnt is a fact. I suspect you and I have different goals in our renders, making the results we get better TO EACH OF US.

We all have to remember that what we perceive as the truth has passed through the filter of our own situations. This is what creates opinions.

But to get back to your position, I agree... if you have a position, you need to have something you can post to back it up. If you can do that, you have gone a long way toward moving your opinion to fact. I used to tell my students: "I could care less what you think. I care a GREAT DEAL WHY you think it!"

That is how you get as close to the truth as you can get.

$.02

I have no problem with high polycount when it is justified by detailed topology.

My well known polycount comment is more like:

Do not use high polycount as a sales argument, when the high polycount is not justified.

When modeling high polycount, then DO something with the polygons, or stay lo poly.

Quote -
When modeling high polycount, then DO something with the polygons, or stay lo poly.

Of course, the argument here will be, "When is it justified." And I'm not trying to resurect this debate. We've beaten it to death. I was simply using it as an example of when a fact may or may not be a fact.

Quote - ROFL... I was refering to things just a few hours to a day old. The stuff that's been here forever is part of what you have to live down! :) Believe me... I know... am SO tempted to delete some of the stuff that I posted before becoming a Mod!

You make me sad.  :lol:

Oh well.

In your posts following the one I quote above, you are making the sort of point I was groping toward, only much more effectively.  Thank you.  :woot:

Quote - happy Posering you all.

Hooray for Poser!  :woot: :woot:

I used to use Poser as an endgame. The final piece to my image puzzle. Than I got Bryce and that became my renderer/scene creator, with Poser figures living in the worlds I made.  Later, after time spent with Rhino, wings, XSI, silo and rediscovering Max and modo I have realized that for me, while in my day job Poser is still my endgame, I like using Poser models as jumping off points in other programs. Especially ZBrush. If I could do character concept sculpting all day long I'd probably be a happy camper.

Thing is though, Poser's always been a part of it and a lot of what keeps me coming back are the people involved in it. Both in making the program and in supporting it.  We all have disagreements from time to time but I admire the community and its support (and often extension) of the program. Hopefully new visitors to the forums will see that for all the occassional bickering there's a wealth of knowledge to be had here. 

Quote - Poser is a fabulous creative tool.

I'm late to the party, maybe because I was busy using Poser as a fabulous creative tool. :D I just want to register my approval of this thread, although I suppose it's vaguely disturbing that people need to be reminded of such a basic fact.

One of the attractions of Poser, to my mind, is that it offers different attractions to different people - which may be the very definition of a worthwhile hobby. If you like delving around in the innards of CR2s and making morphs with an Excel spreadsheet, Poser is for you; if you like pursuing photorealism, Poser is for you; if you want a basic image that you can paint over and/or postwork to death, Poser is for you; if you want to make your own depraved pornography, Poser is for you. ;)

With such a wide user base, it should be no surprise that there are disagreements. Maybe I ought to round off my list with: "if you want to pick a fight, Poser is for you." :P

As a new guy here I read this thread with interest.

There seems to be a lot of bubbling discontent here. It's like you are all cleaning up after the remains of a virtual massacre. But don't worry all forums go through the same processes. It's hard to weed out the troublemakers before you start  losing too many of the valiant few. Mind  you I'd love to get Carrara and Poser to talk, but after TrekkieGirls comments I am not game to ask for hints here :)

Quote - As a new guy here I read this thread with interest.

There seems to be a lot of bubbling discontent here. It's like you are all cleaning up after the remains of a virtual massacre. But don't worry all forums go through the same processes. It's hard to weed out the troublemakers before you start  losing too many of the valiant few. Mind  you I'd love to get Carrara and Poser to talk, but after TrekkieGirls comments I am not game to ask for hints here :)

Poser fourms are for Poser help.

I Don't know if there's a Carrara PoserFusion.

Thanks RorrKonn, there's a Carrara guy who does his best to help but Daz has recently burnt him I think, so he's not so evident as previous. Carrara has Collada export but it doesn't work to get it into poser. It;s not a major problem. I really meant to say that to attract new users to this Poser Forum then sometimes people have to realise that those new users might be coming from other platforms and would like to integrate Poser into their work flow. It's not helpful if there is an apparent elitist attitude here.

Anyway, I really shouldn't have posted here , so take it with a grain of salt!

Thanks for your reply :) cheers

"Anyway, I really shouldn't have posted here…"

Nonsense, it's all one happy, though dysfunctional family. Carrara gets mentioned at times, as in the landscape thread I mentioned earlier. DustRider is an accomplished Carrara/Poser user and I'm sure there are others who will be glad to answer questions if you post them. The vast majority of folks here are incredibly nice and helpful the vast majority of the time so don't get the wrong impression. I think Trekkie's comment wasn't what/how she meant to say if you read her followup. Also, Carrara, Vue, Max, Maya, Hexagon, etc. aren't never elicit much clash of civilizations type excitement anywway. * *

Quote - I really meant to say that to attract new users to this Poser Forum then sometimes people have to realise that those new users might be coming from other platforms and would like to integrate Poser into their work flow. It's not helpful if there is an apparent elitist attitude here.

I think TrekkieGirl backed away from the more absolute tone of that first post, in subsequent ones.  I think as long as Poser is part of a topic or question which also relates to some other software, it will still be valid material for the Poser forum, although I am not a moderator, certainly.  And thatnk Tarim for that.  :lol:

Quote - One of the attractions of Poser, to my mind, is that it offers different attractions to different people - which may be the very definition of a worthwhile hobby. If you like delving around in the innards of CR2s and making morphs with an Excel spreadsheet, Poser is for you; if you like pursuing photorealism, Poser is for you; if you want a basic image that you can paint over and/or postwork to death, Poser is for you; if you want to make your own depraved pornography, Poser is for you. ;)
With such a wide user base, it should be no surprise that there are disagreements. Maybe I ought to round off my list with: "if you want to pick a fight, Poser is for you." :P

A routine Google image search recently led me to a page of "show more like" images on DeviantArt, which ended up being mostly Poser-made pronography.  It was remarkable how varied the images were, even when the same base figures were obviously showing up over and over again.  It's been a long time since I've browsed any gallery of Poser art (of any kind), so the variety and creativity on display, even with such risque material, was a bit exciting.  There was... an awful lot of the stuff.  :lol:  Determined to get to the end of the page, I kept coming back to it throughout the day, scrolling and scrolling, periodically responding with "Ooh!  Look at that!" and "Ewww!  Look at that!"  :lol:

The porn itself, not so exciting, really.  Allerleirauh once commented on how Poser had affected her view of the world, stating that she found herself admiring the "texturing" of other customers' elbows as they waiting in line at the grocery.  Scrolling through what was supposed to be titllating material, I found myself admiring lighting and composition, the joint handling in one case, the materials in another.  Some of the most interesting compositions seemed to have been made back in the Poser 4 days, with the primitive lights and shadows, materials and rendering options that we had back then.  It began to seem to me that a lot of the images more obviously rendered recently (SSS tended to be the main giveaway), the compositions themselves were less impactful as images.  (As erotica... meh, anyway.)  This raised a vague thought in my head (where most of the thoughts are vague already :lol:) that maybe Poser has become less right-brainy and more left-brainy, as more capabilities, options, and tricks have been introduced.  Maybe like things were getting bogged down in details, and the bigger picture was being missed, a lot of the time.

Of course, it may just be that the less impressive older images didn't survive the test of time, to be posted fairly recently at any website, whereas any merely adequate render made more recently might make the cut and be posted.  There's probably some sampling error or confirmation bias at work here.  But I found it interesting.  Probably I should spend some time perusing a few higher-brow Poser galleries, now that I've gone through a somewhat trashy one and been surprisingly wowed.  Wowed and sometimes squicked.  :unsure:

And... have I been babbling about, umm, Poser porn?  Umm.  :scared:  Umm-umm.

Renderosity ceded these forums to the trolls long ago,  either because it matched the general atmosphere in the office or because they thought it made good business sense to encourage the unrelenting bashing of their competition/lifeblood. 

How many pages did a thread called "another dud from daz" last only to be locked once it "stopped being positive"?  It was only at the point that one of the anti-daz messages was discredited that the thread became too negative to continue, when it's whole purpose was negativity from the start.  Heck, if the members aren't starting enough Daz bashing threads on their own, moderators will step in and pick up the slack.

If you wonder about other forums, I've got my own sour grapes with Rendo,  but when I behave like the trolls here, when I make an anti-renderosity comment at Daz, they moderate me. Here that kind of negativity is fostered and encouraged.  You wonder about the cause, it's just what Renderosity is.  Maybe the right staff changes have just finally brought it to the surface these last few years.

“… maybe Poser has become less right-brainy and more left-brainy …”

Been saying that for a while. I’d call it ‘revenge of the nerds’ except I’m pretty sure that both sides would qualify as nerds to the cool kids. You probably get some people obsessing over getting the numbers right and the numbers may put off some of the art-brained. The pendulum may swing back or not who knows. Could just be our faulty perception as well.

The real answer is so obvious I missed it. I kept wondering why people would rumble over a figure or polygons or texture sizes or some company. Why they would pursue some quixotic crusade or whatever else instead of just making art with whatever was available – what I assume a passionate’ artist would do – speak through their art. It didn’t ever make any sense. I now realize it didn’t make sense because it’s not about art, and it’s not about Poser. Those are only proxies. People have suggested the economy etc. and I suppose that’s part of it, though I’ve always found it interesting that we almost never seem to see the women here getting into the conflicts. Maybe, as someone may have already suggested, this is just a reflection of the world changing and people having trouble coping with reality being turned upside down. That might be especially true for some. Visions of prying copies of Poser from cold, dead hands notwithstanding, at least that does make sense to me so I’ll stick with it for now.

I agree 100% with lmckenzie...

Can we return to the OP's message and leave the bashing of EVERYTHING behind? I'm growing weary of this thread wandering off course. It seems some folks just have to have an axe to grind.

Message: Go grind it somewhere else.

Hmmm, I don't see how Renderosity saw themselves profiting from the war. They host forums and have content for both programs. If anything, they stood to lose members. There may well be some agenda going on but it's not immediately obvious, to me at least. 

The moderation - again memory may fail - but it's never been quick to eject people. I think that general policy has indeed failed of late, but I don't know that it was deliberately lax for this one topic. Overall, as Napoleon said; "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explaned by incompetence." I could of course be terribly wrong :-)