Its at 48% off right now ($285).  If you are a 8.5 owner already (or I guess that means 8.1 Pro), its another 50% off ($142.50)...and if you are PC, then another 40% off (~$87)

If you are not PC member, its cheaper to join, versus spending $142.50, as the PC Club costs ($24) plus the PC discount ($57) totals around $110

I'm out. End of the line for me. It's horendus to think my $50-60 assumption was so optimistic.

I don't mind being wrong, I do mind being this sort of wrong.

Mine says $285 for the upgrade. $285? Has someone lost their ever loving minds? I didn't pay half that going from C7 to C8. And DAZ expects me to pay that for a freaking .5 update?

And what really bites, or makes me question my fellow carraraests is it they are buying it. And not at the 50% off. They see it in the cart full price and still go ahead and check out.

If any of you have any sense you will boycott it till DAZ freaking comes to their senses.

I wouldn't pay that if that was the full update price. Think about this, do the math, if it's $285 for a .5 update what do you think the C9 upgrade will cost? $570, for an upgrade? I didn't pay that for carrara when I bought it.

But I'm out, DAZ has priced me right out of this. You all have fun. It seems my banning wasn't such a bad this.

Moving on.

It does not show up at $142.50, until you add to cart, and then go to your cart.  (if you are a C8.1 Pro owner, that is, there is still no obligation at that point)

Any further discount mentioned above is Platinum Club related, as mentioned.

Sorry to hear it, but a lot of folks still love and have fun with C7Pro, so where you are at is not a bad place to be.

C8.1. But ain't it a hell of a note when I am not pesimistic enough? Really? I wasn't pesimistic enough

That is 16 for 19 DAZ, and you wonder why I post my assumptions like a fact.

I'm just stunned, "$285 for a .5 update"????? Just keeps running through my mind.

What part of over pricing the C8.5 update is going to cost DAZ loads of money in G1/G2F sales doesn't DAZ get? If people don't upgrade there is certainly no reason to spend anything on G1/G2F.

Dear DAZ forum mods. After this please don't ever acuss me of this "posting untrue and exaggerated assertions misrepresenting DAZ" again. Because it is quite clear I don't exaggerate my assertions near enough. All those posts that were pulled when I was assuming the upgrade price, where in the long run, low ball assumtions to an extreme.

I never, even in my worst pessimism, expected it to be more the $160 full price.

This is just, ... wow

Seems to me Carrara dev's got hit with scope creep by the company on this one (i.e. called it 8.5, then got stuck with that number, but then had to add all of the Genesis, auto-fit, triax support, etc.)

Seems a pretty big add, that probably should have been called 9.0...

This release is going to appeal to the Genesis group, less so to the non, since the Pro bundles sweeten the pot.

Yes, but how many of the Genesis group already have them? They have been out long enough. If I had wanted them I could have bought them by now.

The question is what is the value of those freebies for a figure that is quite apparently, not in development? Yes, that is an assumption on my part, please check my assumptive track record

Yes I will still be using C8.1 but I am done being a DAZ customer. I can't use the new figures so no reason for me to shop there.

I can always shop on stonemassons site, I'd rather give him all the money straight up to begin with. I'll miss Jack, but Lisa and ken are at hivewire anyway. That only leaves 2 PAs at DAZ I am fan of, so......

I said Fan not friend There are PAs at DAZ that are higher on my friends list then PA list.

Does Carrara have an instruction/reference manual explaining the tools? I know Daz seems to have aversions to these. I can't justify spending that kind of money on a product if there is no manual.

The v7 manual comes with v8.5 apparently, but there is doco on new features, as we saw it in the forums before release.  Search at Daz forums for that, and you should be able to get some info.  I'll poke around for a link or two about it.

Quote - I can always shop on stonemassons site, I'd rather give him all the money straight up to begin with.

Stonemason's site?!

I didn't know he even HAD a site.

I'm not sure you can shop there, but if I had a choice

http://stefan-morrell.com/

I've been a fan of Stefan's since he was working onthe cloud car here years ago.

I have to agree with you, Stan. That's way too much for a point release for Carrara. I don't know if you can see the forums at DAZ, but Spooky or Jared replied to someone that the cost is pretty reseaonable considering the V5 M5 bundles you get. I and others don't see those bundles as incentive to buy.

I'd much prefer a 'no bundles' option to upgrade, but probably not happening.

I'll probably skip this one unless they pull a DAZ and give the thing away in a month or two.

Not looking forward to seeing how much they're going to sell 9 for.

Quote - I'm not sure you can shop there, but if I had a choice http://stefan-morrell.com/ 

Thanks for the link.

No, you can't shop there, BUT he does have a few really nice freebies to pick up. I'm a big Stonemason fan too. I would get every item he comes out with if I could manage.

Quote - I have to agree with you, Stan. That's way too much for a point release for Carrara. I don't know if you can see the forums at DAZ, but Spooky or Jared replied to someone that the cost is pretty reseaonable considering the V5 M5 bundles you get. I and others don't see those bundles as incentive to buy.

I agree with the two of you. The price, even at $85 is pretty steep for my money right now. I DO have to admit, the two Pro bundles are appealing to me, because I don't already have V5 or M5 or any clothes for them.

Quote - I'll probably skip this one unless they pull a DAZ and give the thing away in a month or two.

I don't think they'll give this one away. I thought they were going to give C8Pro away back when they had the big Free software deal, but I was surprised they didn't.

I don't even plan on using C8.5 for awhile (I still haven't installed my C8Pro yet), but at some point I will need to make a move and don't want to get killed on the price.

Oooo! Cool stuff from Stonemason. Gotta love those freebies. Thanks.

Quote - I don't even plan on using C8.5 for awhile (I still haven't installed my C8Pro yet), but at some point I will need to make a move and don't want to get killed on the price.

 

I'm in a bit of the same boat. I do like some of what 8.5 offers, but I probably won't really get to use it for a while. I was anxious to buy until this morning. Ouch!

Quote - I was anxious to buy until this morning. Ouch!

Craziest part is, even if you wanted to spend the money, it probably wouldn't have come up as the right price in your cart. LOL!

I'm sure you've seen the people talking about that over at Daz.

Oh, yeah. I think I saw maybe a half dozen different prices quoted by various people. Some even had a different price each time the refreshed their cart. Why does DAZ even release products when no one's in the office?

Had to try several times to get the discount for owning Carrara 8 to work.  Finally did, got the update for $80 +/- (I re-upped for platinum club which I had let lapse, and caught up on a bunch of 1.99 items).  I am ok with the deal for the upgrade.

Klebnor

Quote - Had to try several times to get the discount for owning Carrara 8 to work.  Finally did, got the update for $80 +/- (I re-upped for platinum club which I had let lapse, and caught up on a bunch of 1.99 items).  I am ok with the deal for the upgrade. Klebnor

I'm glad the deal works for you Klebnor.

Let us know how the software works after you've played with it for a little while.

I have bought all Carrara  since version 1 from Eovia to version 8 pro from DAZ

I am a Pc member from its debut

I have paid for DAZStudio pro before it come for free

I have bought the two bundles coming with the Carrara upgrade

And on my cart i see 171 $ for upgrade to Carrara pro 8,5

So thanks Daz : not for me  now

martial, please either try it again, or send DAZ sales support a ticket with the order number of your Carrara 8 purchase.

I had the same problem initially, and then the cart got corrected for me. I didn't even have to send my request to DAZ. But other people have sent them sales tickets and got their discount properly applied. I hope this helps.

I got the $171 price too, put in a ticket, tried a few more times and, by DAZ magic, suddenly the discount kicked in.  No idea what did it.

I suggest going in and out a couple of times, and definitely start the check out, as it was never right in my shopping cart.

What a website.

Klebnor

Thanks every one 

I will try again  or maybe wait until after 1 september using also the platinum month discount for september

I'd suggest not buying it at all. It just encourages DAZ's thinking that $285 is a "neglagble" upgrade fee. Or has everyone forgoten?

neglagble: so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering; insignificant.

Seems everyone is looking at that $85 and not the actual update cost. The actually update price is $285, everyone has been blinded by this discount and that discount. Do you all honestly think $285 is a fair price for a .5 update when the actual full price of C7pro to C8 pro was only $225.

And I agree, the V5/M5 probundles just don't cut it for me. G1 has been out for two years, the V5/M5 probundles have been out nearly as long. If I wanted them I would have gotten them by now. And every one knows, G1 is dead, 2 years with no update.

So what are we getting for that $285? A few nice tweaks, light icons that look like lights. A change up to the UI so it is more freindly for studio users. And the ability to use genesis; that is free in studio. Do you honestly think that is worth $285?

If C9 had improved atmospherics, full dymaic clothes, full soft body, and maybe a few dozen other tweaks and features it might be MIGHT BE worth a $285 upgrade.

But a .5 update, with a few tweaks, and giving us the privelage to throw a few hundered in to G1. Not hardly.

Bad polititions are put in office by good people that don't vote.

Bad business policys are kept in place by good people that buy anyway.

Before you blow me off, think about this. My most pesimistic assumtion at the cost of C8.5 was $225 LESS then the actual cost. I am the harbenger of gloom and doom, the pesimistic, cynical, critcal, conspericy theorest. And I was wrong on the optimistic side on this one, and by a big margen.

Seriouisly. If I had posted 3 months ago that the update cost for C8.5 would be $285, what would you have thought?

$110 was the total for me, plus Utah sales tax because that's where I live.

Had to proceed all the way to the last page for all discounts to be applied. The DAZ site automatically finds the appropriate discount from your record of purchases, you don't need to supply any information, but you do need to log on for this to work.

Make the Plantinum Club quarterly purchase at the outset. If you forget, click edit the final billing page and go back to grab it. Keep on top of that subscription or you will be automatically rebilled each quarter, if it works the way it used to.

My cost for upgrading from 7 to 8 was higher than this, about $140 I think, and that was through a quarterly PC purchase also. I was very glad to get the 64 bit renderer with 8 virtual cores cooking all at once. It really does this full bore, I checked frequently through Task Manager just to watch all eight cylinders spike.

Each person will have to weigh for her or himself whether the added value justifies the cost. It did for me because: 1) the price was less than my previous upgrade; 2) Poser Pro 7 and 3DS Max 7 won't run on my Win7 64 system even in compatibility mode; 3) I want to say on the upgrade escalator because version 9 will cost more going straight from 8 compared to 8.5; 4) I'm sure I'll use the new features and character models now that I have them.

SMcQ

Not arguing with you at all just pointing out.

"1) the price was less than my previous upgrade"

I checked my sales receipt on this; of coarse I still have it.

Carrara 8 Pro Upgrade: $119.97

Platinum Club Discount: -$79.98

So full price for the C7 pro to C8 pro upgrade was $199.95.

The C8.5 update; that is a .5 update, is just a bit more, like $85.

Facts.

I'm sure glad you are not arguing with me, just pointing out.

Let me better define my terms, for the sake of pointing out.

"The price" in my usage means the final price I paid after discounts. I think that's common parlance. You are entitled to use the full retail price, not the street price after discounts, and I'm entitled to not understand why you would do this.

Maybe I misremembered what I paid or you got a better deal, but $119.97, whether including tax or not, is still more than $117.95 including sales tax, so my statement still stands as a true statement, given that my usage of "the price" is what was actually charged to my credit card. The price (I paid) was better than my previous upgrade.

I don't challenge your correctness on the full retail price but I mean no offense when I say I don't really care what it was. My subjective determination of value will be based on what I actually have to pay. As I'm sure you know, that's what the term, "price point" means in marketing, the price at which there is a propensity to purchase. $110 plus sales tax for 8.5 Pro was below my price point.

The full retail price for an upgrade to 8.5 Pro, without any PC or 8 Pro discount, was much too steep for me. I reacted with the same shock you did, although much less anger. But when I found out more about the actual price I could pay, $110 looked good. I'm not going to fret about the $285 sticker price, why bother?

Whether the hidden upgrade pricing is just an oversight by DAZ, or bad reverse psychology, I don't know. Personally, I would have headlined the marcom with something like, "Upgrades to 8,5 Pro as low as $110!"

Then we'd be pointing out, not arguing, about $110 being a fair price for what you get. The .5 numenclature means nothing to me, I consider the new features and add ons.

In the final analysis, though, I think we can agree that "fair pricing" is a highly subjective determination, and that $110 comes closer to it than $285. It passed the threshold for me, perhaps not for you.

Genesis compatability is the only new feature/addon. That is free in Studio. Why should I pay DAZ for the ability to use/buy Genesis content? If the ability to use genesis was of any importence to me, I'd use Studio. It's free and works much better with genesis; much better 

In a couple of weeks, when it jumps up to $171, please tell me the value then. But then that would be $190, wouldn't it. And it was what? $200 for a full upgrade to C8pro, no discounts?

You may find the value in it. I've used the beta for 2 years, I don't. Something to ponder on, I'm about to sacrafice 2 years of work by not upgrading to C8.5. 2 years of work and it still doesn't have the value for me DAZ has placed on it.

Try this. If the C8.5 base price was $140, that would have been exceptable, 50% off plus the Pclub discount would have put it down to my predicted price. A price most peopel would have been more then happy to pay. But, I'd be whiling to bet DAZ lost at least 50% of the sales it could have gotten if C8.5 had had a reasonable price; and that is probably optimistic.

So the over pricing is probably costing DAZ coming and going. DAZ's screw up. One of these day they may learn. But so far I haven't seen any evidence of that. I mean the fewer people that buy the C8.5 upgrade the fewer people will be buying content. And isn't content the steam that drives the free Studio?

But hey, If you're happy, have fun.

So yeah, let's boycott Carrara! Let's try to convince people to not buy it! Let's whine and piss and moan on every Carrara forum on the web!

Seriously?

What's always been the BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS problem with Carrara is that it simply doesn't sell well enough for DAZ to pump an endless amount of resources into its development. There are plenty of reasons why DAZ has always struggled with Carrara: DAZ can't seem to figure out how to make a good case for Carrara, the (ignorant) perception of Carrara is that it's too advanced and complicated for the Poser/DS crowd, yet not advanced enough for the pros- (Neither statement is true) And the list goes on...

Seriously though, Carrara's biggest obstacle is Carrara users! I know for a fact that there are plenty of first-rate artists using Carrara, yet they rarely, if ever, post their work online. Every time Carrara comes up in a Poser or DS forum, nobody steps in to correct the endless stream of ignorance and misinformation that's being spewed by some mouth-breather who gave up on Carrarra five minutes after stealing it from a file sharing site.

Most of all it's the constant complaining by Carrara users. How many people have the whiners turned away from Carrara? How many people are illegally downloading Lightwave right now because DAZ made the unforgivable decision to charge half of what Carrara is actually worth?

So let's band together and boycott Carrara! Let's intentionally hurt the people who rely on Carrara! And maybe, if everything works out, DAZ will stop making Carrara and can all take out second mortgages and buy Maya!

~Jess

It's funny, having Poser, Poser Pro, Daz Studio and Carrara ... I have always been amazed at the value proposition of Carrara compared to other entry level apps.  I appreciate the robust tool set coupled to the ability to use Poser and Daz content.  I think it's actuallly pretty cheap on a value for money scale.

But that's just me.  I spent more taking my wife to dinner Saturday than the upgrade cost, and the upgrade will last me an awful lot longer.

Cheers!

Quote - But that's just me.  I spent more taking my wife to dinner Saturday than the upgrade cost, and the upgrade will last me an awful lot longer. Cheers!

I don't spend that much on groceries in a month. It's a matter of prospective.

Hell, my monthly cable bill is more than the 8.5 upgrade!

When I first bought Carrara 5 from Eovia, it was $550 and I thought it was an absolute steal considering everything the app is capable of. I agree that DAZ's efforts with 8.5 would've been better spent on features other than Genesis support, but that's just me.

I wholeheartedly agree that the constant negativity from the Carrara community isn't helping anybody. I think our goal should be getting more people using Carrara!

Jess, thank you! :) I was getting to my own boiling point with all the stuff I was reading in the forums, but now that I've read your answer, I see that somebody else has said what I was feeling, so now I don't have to :).

And I agree with you, jt411! We should get more people to discover and use Carrara. I usually try to brag about it whenever I find people who'd listen :). But I'm not sure my art is good enough to do it justice, so I may not be the most convincing person to do it :(...

What's cable?

Just trying to keep it in perspective

How much of that negativety is about carrara?

I may gripe about autofit, or Genesis, and defenetly about DAZ, but not about carrara

I'll also point out I was a bit of a cheerleader for the tweaks to softbody and the new light icons. And I'll miss those more then genesis.

Also note, check my threads on what has become of all the carraraests on the carraracafe. I wont argue that many of us really need to leave a bigger foot print

So where's this DAZ gallery so we can? {or maybe I should say you can, because I can't }

I've never tried to hide what I am about, I want everyone to know my nature so they can judge my posts acordingly. If a new user needs help I will jump right in and try to help {*}  But I am not going to pull punches or candy coat anything.

Now look at this from my prospective, $285 is more then my living expences for the month. Feel me now?

Just a side note: With AT&Ts DSL bill going up steadily, cable with broadband is looking like a viable alturnative.

hey I bought it at 85 bucks.

The included content is useless to me. I use k4 happily or m4 or v4 etc and see no problems with them.

I thought the potential "cloth sim" might have improved over 8.1, and it has, but it's still so slow to be unusable unless you have a very low poly garment - and then it's still slooooow. Compared to Poser offering Daz should be ashamed of it.

Ultimately.... my thoughts- we have to give DAZ a reason to keep developing Carrara.

Whing and moaning or deciding to boycott Carrara upgrades will just end up getting Carrara trashed.

Mind you it's easy for me to say as I have a job and income etc.

I wouldn't be suprised that after daz has played skim the market they will offer the upgrade cheaper without the m5 etc bundles.

At the moment though I have 8.5 I can't really see any reason not to use 8.1

That's what I'll be using

C8.5 simply does not have the value to me DAZ has placed on it. I'll just wait for C9; unless it is horendusly overpriced as well. But I get this feeling DAZ has priced me right out of carrara. Hey, doesn't hurt my feelings to have no reason to buy content

Just means more money to spend on something else.

Well, I'm not boycotting DAZ, but the cost of this point update is too much for me for what little value I'd actually get. I mean, $285 is NOT a nominal fee. And I'm not spending $25 so I can get the update for $85.

I do not do Genesis and probably never will. All the Genesis content improvements are probably nice for someone who uses Gen, but not for me. In the end, it's just not worth the price...for me. Everybody has to make their own call. I don't have enough money to buy something just to support the company. If they produce something I need, of course I'll buy it, but not this time.

I'm with Stan. Carrara is great! I use it often. DAZ not so much.

Hey, Andrew! :)

Boycotting was an old stratagy to bring companies in line. Now there are just too many people that will gripe all the way to the check out, and buy it anyway. So there is no way for the stategy to work, and most companies count on that now.

I finally bought it for $85 and i think it is ok for this price

Continous support is the better way to have new version

I'm not really intending to admonish anyone for buying it. I can full understand why peopel would want to jump on it ASAP to get all the discounts. But to me this just sends DAZ the wrong message.

Yes, if $85 was the base price it would be great. But the only support people are giving is in DAZ's beleif $285 is a fair price for a .5 update. People buying in to this now practically guarantees the C9 upgrade will be pushing $600. And I don't even want to hear "oh that is an assumption, it wont cost that much". I was told that when I said DAZ could charge as much as $160 for the .5 update. 

Honestly people. Think about this, in your opinion is $285 a good price for a .5 update? Forget about the present discounts and sales. If there weren't any, would you be spending $285 for this?

Will anyone disagree with me that C8.5 at $285 is egregiously over priced?

People are looking at the out of pocket cost; and whom wouldn't, not that the actual price is way, way out of line. It's $225 more then my worst case senario.

Just give me C8.5 at a resonable price, forget the discounts, forget the bonuses, keep the content. I'd rather pay full price for carrara and it be $120, then $85 after a bunch of short term discounts. I have little issue with $120 being full price, I have major issues with it being $285.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. How would you all have reacted if I had said 3 months ago C8.5 would cost $285?

Be honest.

It's a product. We're consumers. We are not required to be cheerleaders; that's what our purchasing power is for. And legitimate complaints — such as, you're charging more than you promised for a release that is largely centered around selling us new content and fixing bugs from the previous release — should be heard. Relentless positivism is simply driving me batty. Carrara is a product, not a religion. There have been, particularly with Apple and the Mac versions, some serious problems  (with Mac, we're now almost THREE operating systems further along since 8.1, for instance, and 8.1 stopped working for most of us with a new OSX three months after 8.1 was released — two years ago). I'm glad some of you are ecstatic. I'm a little annoyed at being charged full upgrade price (albeit with discounts) for a release that fixes bugs and makes it possible for me to buy new content. I find it ironic the bug tracker completely changed right before this release, and all the previous history wiped clean.

I'm truly as positive as they come, and I'm irritated at the general, "How dare you have concerns." For instance, DIM still isn't installing for Mac successfully, into the Carrara package, and there are no instructions anymore on how to do it manually. And CMS isn't working at all on many Macs, but there's no guidance at all on what to do. Bringing up the problem, however, is being negative. Whatever.

CarltonMartin please note there is a lot, and I mean a lot of moderation going on on the carrara forum on DAZ. The reason you are seeing a lot of chearleading is because most everything else is getting pulled.

I've watched the page count on the sticked carrara announcement thread drop pages, several times over the last few days.

I don't know. Carrara 6 to 7 upgrade cost me $49 including a $20 discount, probably for Platinum club, while my Carrara 7 to 8 upgrade says $0 in my account. I thought the latter actually was less than $40, if I'm not getting it mixed up with Bryce. At any rate, something must be up with Daz to cause this inflation, especially when they're throwing in stuff to boost the price. Maybe they'll go cheap later on after the high spenders are all reeled in.

Maybe. I have all my receipts going back to C5; and I mean for everything I have bought on line.

DAZ will have to do something, I'm sure the sales have already started to drop. Once the payday is friday crowd is done, that will be it.

Well Daz have the 30 day guarantee.

They have enough people taking carrara back they will sit up.

1. if people buy it then Daz knows people are interested.

2. If people then take it back Daz will take a look at itself.

3. If people don't buy it for various reasons then Daz will not know whether a) there is no interest, b0 there is interest but it is too expensive, c) etc.

buying it and taking it back  is the best way to get daz's attention and to ensure a better future for carrara

Or DAZ could just read the posts they are pulling

I'd give that a go headwax, but I'd need the money back not a DAZ voucher. And I wont have my divedend check till the last of the week next month, so.....

That is why I hate limited time sales. I usually don't have the money at the time and the sale is over before I have any. I'd love to see DAZ go back to the days they had reasonable prices all the time and sales were an event. Not everything over priced and sales all the time. People are blinded by the sales and don't seem to realize the cost of content is half again what it was 2 years ago. I can understand rasing prices to cover the rising cost of production, but not by 50-75%.

That is an old marketing scheme, mark it up 40% this week then put it on sale at 30% off next week. Jack the price up 50% so people think they are getting a real bargen when it is 30% off.

Of coarse I'm wondering how the cost of production can go up after you lay off half your staff. Or how the cost of prodution can be so much when you don't actually produce anything. 95% of the new content in the DAZ store DAZ didn't produce.

Wasn't it a year or so ago that they were refering to us as unruly children or something, and then telling us that going forward there would be no more constant sales?

I seem to remember that right after that there was a sale.

And the sales haven't stopped.

DAZ isn't looking for artists, hobbiest, or profesionals, they are looking for consumers and little more.

And the one thing I have learned in all my years with DAZ is you can't believe anything they tell you.

**smoke and mirrors ** (American & Australian) something which is intended to confuse or deceive people, especially by making them believe that a situation is better than it really is.

dog and pony show

Fig. a display, demonstration, or exhibition of something-such as something one is selling. (As in a circus act where trained dogs leap onto and off of trained ponies.) *Gary went into his standard dog and pony show, trying to sell us on an upgrade to our software. *

Quote - DAZ isn't looking for artists, hobbiest, or profesionals, they are looking for consumers and little more.

Yeah, I do get that impression when I'm over there. This is one of those times when 'the good old days' really were the 'good old days'.

Quote - Wasn't it a year or so ago that they were refering to us as unruly children or something, and then telling us that going forward there would be no more constant sales?

I seem to remember that right after that there was a sale.

And the sales haven't stopped.

Yeah Books, 

But the sales don't seem to be real sales. There are a never ending stream of "savings" but they are mostly "Buy one, get the other at 30%, a 2nd one at 40%" type.

I would rather have the old sales back. You know, where I actually saved money when I bought stuff.

daz stuff is very expensive, compared to how it used to  be , as far as I can see, no proven facts though, just a feeling, lucky a lot of stuff is genesis which i don't want