After all the discussion about the new figure from DSI, had to try her for myself. First, let me say that this is clearly a labor of love and the folks at DSI have addressed many, many items that make this model very interesting to work with. High poly count, a lot of attention to facial expression and a more realistic jaw movement. Open mouth poses are much more do-able and there are less "bend and crease" defects in the extremity poses. Now for the criticism, and it has mostly to do with the choice of the original model upon which this is based, rather than the digital techniques employed. It is ironic to the extreme that so much trouble should have been undertaken with realistic scanning techniques to waste them on what can only be termed "extensive pre-production." I am sure the lady is very nice and I make no personal commentary here, but from a physician's standpoint--with a lengthy rotation in plastics--there are just too many basic figure faults encompassed here. Though they are splendidly camouflaged and compensated, still they make the character difficult to work with. The flaws are as follows: Despite the exuberant implants, the figure is quite masculine in basic parameters. The "high pockets" effect of the shallow pelvis is offset by the sloping gluteals, but without these, the figure is too short through the hip. The legs are slightly "knock-knee-ed" and this is reflected in the fact that the feet are rather flat and unbecoming. The shortness in the torso is compensated for by being quite under-weight which is evident in the spare and fairly shapeless contours of the extremities and the atrophic deltoids which contribute to the awkwardness in the shoulder and neck area. The trapezius group is tight and tied into the neck quite high. The effect is that the shoulders are too wide, which has been noted in prior comments, but that is an optical illusion. The shoulder area is "dense" but actually too narrow because you lose the round of the deltoid lateral to the end of the collar bone. The neck is thick and does not maintain a nice line in the bend and twist modes. I suspect the face would be nicer with its original nose. I tend to believe this is not it. The indistinct "edges" along the sides of the bridge and the centimeter extra space above the upper lip line, suggest intervention, which would be consistent with the decreased dimensions of the nares. I'm all for nose jobs, but the marked increase in the height of area between nose and upper lip is too simian to be attractive, except in chin-down poses. The joints of the fingers are a little too prominent, almost arthritic. I love the eyes, the "cheek" dimples, the tan-lines texture map. The pics included are without adjustment in the upper left and the rest with Nose Long and Body height vs width adjusted to 105%. The breasts were reduced 75% from Breasts Small setting, and lifted slightly, as were the buttocks, with magnets. I worked quite a while on the nose problem, but the distance to the upper lip is too far for my software to correct without distorting the mesh. eng

I think the strength of this model may be that it looks more like the average woman. Slightly overweight and imperfectly human - good for characters based on real people. But everyone wants the supermodels don't they? -JH.

True a supermodel dina isn't , but she's got potential. and she's pretty cool to work with. I'm still pretty glad i got her

I guess I don't understand how size G implants fore and aft constitute anyone's idea of an "average" woman. I would have gladly welcomed a more normal model. Upon closer scrutiny, this woman is not overweight. She is short-waisted and underweight with prostheses. You don't see rib and scapular margins so prominently with women who are even slightly overweight. Given the model is not "natural" to begin with, I believe the critique has some validity and reworking the face would enhance the potential of this model. eng

eng, I also got Dina and pretty much agree with your critique on her breasts and butt. When I try to reduce her breasts using the dials, they look mis-shapen. Any chance you could make your magnets available? buck

I find the deviation from the "supermodel" ideal to be a very appealing feature. A woman doesn't have to conform to some hypothetical ideal to be attractive, & neither does a poser figure. I feel the key element is the figure's ability to convey character & personality, & from what I've seen so far Dina has tremendous potential. If the model on which the Dina figure is based was surgically enhanced, I don't see how that matters much, as most of the parameters are readily adjustable in poser. I'm planning on getting her this weekend (no time for downloads during the week).

What's interesting about these renders, to me, is how cleverly ENGELKEN has disguised Dina's square, linebacker's shoulders. Overweight she's not. What she is, is stocky. Maybe she's had to build up her lats, traps and delts to make it easier to carry those huge hooters around.

I'm still not convinced someone didn't take liberties with the mesh before the release. Implants or not, she does NOT look like an average woman. If anything, she has the exact opposite characteristics. The average woman is either pear shaped - hips larger than the shoulders, or apple shaped - shoulders and hips about the same, but the stomache more prominent - no hourglass tapering. This figure has overly large shoulders, a tiny hourglass waist (with the obvious shelf between the ribs and the waist looks like 1800's with corsets or ribs surgically removed) and tiny hips. Working out at the gym, I've only seen one or two women come close to the upper body-lower body proportions, and they still looked far closer to the standard pear or apple shape. Every picture I see shows more flaws to the model. The high polygon count is great, the bends working is wonderful, but the base model, even after all the scaling, hiding, etc. still does not look right. I wasn't that thrilled with Vicki, but I could see possibilities. What everyone complained about was how stylized Vicki was and how hard it is to personalize her. Dina looks far more difficult to do. It's easier to significantly stylize a generic character, than significantly change a stylized character. Maybe with sufficient morphs, I'll reconsider. Currently, it's easier to Photoshop out a Vicki bend than to make Dina look average.

I guess that means that stock posette is above average then??? The only problem REALLY is the joint bending/shearing then??? Hmm. I'll pass on Dina and wait to see DSI project #2. Perhaps they are reading and will take live model selection and your above comments into account. (No offense to the REAL Dina.)

Engleken, Thanks for sharing your professional evaluation, would love a comparable one of Vicki2's structure and proportions. Especially, where would some additional mesh detail make the most improvement? (Besides totally redesigning the shoulder structure!) I'm looking forward to the next generation of female and male characters - with the high-poly count put to best possible effect. But would prefer highly accurate and attractive natural figures with lots of capibility for us to do our own plastic surgery. And please save some of those polys for non-angular ear tops, etc!

Hi, I think the "problem" with Dina, (in as much as there is one) is more psychological than anything else, if you were going to design a woman from scratch how would you make her look? I'm betting that almost nobody would come up with Dina if they had a blank canvas to play with. I think the problem here is less one of mesh density and more one of simple "beauty" people like playing with beautiful things... later jb

Attached Link: http://www.thegrc.com

In no way am I saying that Dina is the perfect example of a woman's body (what is that anyway?), and yes, the original model had some "enhancements", so she is not quite the "norm". As far as I know, she did not have a nose job, but who knows for sure. I also remember Vicki getting criticised just as harshly when she first came out, and to my eye, Vicki has worse anatomical "defects". Vicki's torso is too long, her hips are too deep and her crotch is not even close to being realistic. It's not just a lack of gentialia, but the fact that it comes to a point between her legs. Her hands are too big in proportion to her body. Her arms are too long. Her neck is way too long and her eyes and mouth have some definite problems that have been helped by the Vicki 2 morphs, but not completely corrected. Vicki's proportions are more that of a fashion model, which is nowhere near the norm for most human females. She is not "average" enough in any way to be considered a blank slate, and yet many people have made very attractive characters from this model. I think that one of the things that is happening here is that everyone's eyes are used to looking at Vicki's proportions (and even SMV which is more like a fashion illustration's proportions than a fashion model's), so Dina looks squat in comparison. I know how easily this happens from working in retail fashion for many years and looking at pictures of models all day long every day. After a while, a more normally proportioned woman looks short and fat. Posette, too, has her anatomical anomalies. Her neck is also way too long and her breasts don't really look like breasts at all, "enhanced" or otherwise. But people have taken both of these models and added their own vision of what is beautiful to them. The same will happen with Dina. I'm seeing it already. I've done some morphs for her myself because I prefer her legs and hips a little more shapely and her abdomen a little heavier. I also tweaked her nose and lowered her eyebrows. But that's my taste. It may not be the next person's. The morphs are available free on both www.thegrc.com and www.renderotica.com (warning, renderotica is for adults only). praxis22, please don't tell me that if you were to design a woman from scratch you would make her look like Vicki or Posette? :-)

Actually, don't have Vicky 2. I work with Michael for the most part. This was an interesting departure. I really don't work that much with the Vicky 1, either, except in the earlier days when there was no Michael yet and Vicky was filling in for a male model, which she did quite well...probably not a great recommendation, but I really appreciated her flexibility that way. I know this discussion tends to slide on over to the competitive side of the street, but I made no mention of the super models or Vickettes, Posies, or whatever, and I did not evaluate Dina in light of these other, no doubt excellent, models. And I am thoroughly amazed at how the "chimp lip" defect has been so handily fixed. Big improvement. Thank you, eng

Diane, Well, as a longtime fan of Posette, I'd have to say that if I were designing from scratch and she came out looking like Possette I'd be pretty pleased with myself. But then as a would be sculptor who has designed women from scratch, I have to say that getting the torso the right shape, (and peversely enough, the feet :) are always the most difficult parts of the construction process. In fact that's one of the reasons why I like poser so much, it's easier and quicker than the month long labour of love that is building a figure from scratch. Hell it can take the better part of a week to build a decent armature :) But to answer the question, I would have to say that if I were building the perfect woman, then apart from changing the eye colour to green, I'd be happy if she looked like one of my old girlfriends, (a litteral "gift from God") but failing that I'll take SMV with smaller breasts and the face I have on her at the moment, (a happy accident :) although if she looked like Handspan's Brigit (The basis for the current face) I'd be just as happy... The point I was trying to make above was that unlike the arrival of Vicky, when "ugly or not" she was the most advanced thing on the market, now times have changed, expectations are higher, and even Daz took the hint and make V2 passably pretty. So it's perhaps a tribute to the programmers art, and the maturity of the audience, that mesh density alone is no longer enough. Even though, by her very nature, Dina is extensively morphable, out of the box she isn't pretty, and given that most people aren't morph masters the reaction she provoked is understandable, but only if people are thinking of her as a woman, and not an .obj :) which has to be good. Like most I'll probably wait untill somebody creates a "pretty" version, but when "perfection" is possible, why settle for less :) later jb