PoC = Proof of Concept

This post is not a tutorial, I just want to proof a concept.

It's impossible to create dynamic clothes to DS4 without the expensive Optitex creation software ... WRONG !

See the pictures below, a special care with the commas (yellow) and with the variable values (green). I will be using the "Boxerslips" figure from "M6 Intimates" product, available at DAZ3D. It's a very simple and plain figure, appropriate to this PoC. You need to have an intermediary/advanced familiarity with the DSON format used by the DUF files. I'm using the advanced cloth control, but this also may work using the basic control.

So start a new scene, load the Boxerslips figure and save a file as "Scene Subset". Locate and open the new file with a good text editor.

begining of the file :
before

after

scene / nodes section (2 modifications here) :

before

after
---------------------

scene / modifiers section (after "DzMeshSmoothModifier" or "SkinBinding" modifier) :

before

after
---------------------

scene / materials section (append the lines to each material/panel in this section) :

before

after

Save the file, now you have a working dyn cloth. Start a new scene, load the cloth, load Genesis 2 Male, run the simulation.

Result:

The mesh used in this PoC was not designed to cloth simulation, so the results are rubish.

But using a proper mesh, load the obj file, load genesis, use the transfer utility to create a cloth figure. Save the new cloth as scene subset and perform the steps above.

More : you can create several sizes of the same cloth, that fits to several genesis's chars. Create a mesh that fits the desired shape. Load the obj file, use "Convert prop to figure", save it as scene subset and perform the steps above. Now you have a dyn cloth. To use it : clear the scene, load the cloth, load genesis and apply the desired shape. DON'T conform the cloth to genesis. Run the simulation starting from the genesis's zero pose.

These pictures uses G2M with Zev0's Youth Morph set to 50%. The shorts mesh was created with blender, the shirt mesh was created with MD2.

Limitations : Works only with simple clothes, without buttons, belts, etc... . The seams feature needs more reseach to be implemented using a text editor.

Now anyone with enough practice on DS4 scripting can create a "Clothify" script.

Appreciate the sharing :) Quite surprised that it is that simple, but effective :)

Now I just need to hunt for some "simple" clothing pieces to try out a bit more :)

Thanks again :)

Thank you for sharing this great information, and proof of concept.

Well done...

What did you use to open a duf file with, every text program I tried just shows gobbly gook of the duf file.

Your duf file might still compressed, you should be able to uncompress it with any unzip-like utility. Quite a few editors allow to open compressed files as well and uncompress them on the fly. Since I am on Mac OS X I am not sure if any editor recommendation of mine would do any good.

DS has a batch converter built into it, just use that to uncompress the DUF/DSF files.

I only have the basic plugin so I can't edit the cloth settings in DS, but even so I'm getting decent results with trial & error in my text editor, like this I dare say I could even make a hybrid dress, where the top conforms and the skirt part drapes.

Attached pic shows Genesis and the skirt on the left, in the middle we are on frame 30 where I've posed and morphed Genesis, and on the right is frame 30 after I've ran an animated drape.

To conclude my participation here :

DAZ officially recognized that the described method works. BUT the publication or distribution of this dynamic content is not allowed. It's ok for personal use, but you can't sell or offer as a freebie. I must admit that I understand the official DAZ advice, but I will never understand why the vendors need a such EXPENSIVE application to create content. This is binding DS4 popularization at all, I think that the agreement between DAZ and Optitex is a past conceptual mistake. But, if there is an agreement, it must be fulfilled.

The official DAZ position is here : http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/39635/P90 post #104

So, please, don't publish your creations using this method.

Actually only one human being can create cloth using Optitex software. IMHO DAZ should be more active and negotiate a really cheaper license to selected DAZ vendors. The argument that Optitex is a very complex software and that the users will not able to use it is BULLS**T and a hard offense to the PA's intelligence.

I'm happy to see that at least one user was able to create a clothify script, a very old friend from Poser 4 period. For obvious reasons, sorry, this basic script can't be redistributed.

I'm double happy because the same cowboy proofed that it's also possible to include the seams and buttons, although these features actually require the use of external applications to calculate and create the complex lines that are pasted into the duf file. So you can add pockets, belts, it's possible to do it. Just be curious enough to discover how to do it, all you need are in the duf files.

To those who call me "hacker": You must consult a psychiatrist to treat your jealousy. Sorry, but there is nothing to do about your stupidity, you must live with it.

The next time you see someone writing that it's impossible to create DS4 dynamic clothes, please, be active and assert that this is not true, you can create your own content.

Be free, be happy. 

Bye.

Thanks for all your work and contribution!

"Hacker" in itself is not a bad word. Nowadays it is often used for bad behavior - but really, there are other meanings.

"A hacker is someone who loves to program or who enjoys playful cleverness, or a combination of the two."

Now that isn't very nice, in fact it was just wrong.

Thing is that contract with Optitex was made by the origenal DAZ. DAZ stopped being DAZ three years ago when the last founder left; to open up a content store else where.

There is a lot of politics involved here we can only guess at. But it doesn't look like the cooperation between DAZ and Optitex is still going on. It seems to have died out shortly after DAZ changed hands.

If I recall correctly the one guy making dynaimc clothing for Studio left optitex. I could make some assumptions, but I really don't have enough info to. This is yet another feature that looked like it was going to take off like a rocket, then fizzled on the pad.

Which I don't understand hypercritical, cynical, pesimist that I am I have fun with optitex clothing all the time. It's one of my top tested features.

Like the clothes work fine with any figure if they are close to the same size. Morph genesis or G2 to a size resonably close to V4 and any V4 optitex clothes will work on her and can be animated. Want to put a dress on freak4? start genesis out in the v4 size, move the time line ahead 2 seconds, morph genesis to freak4, hit drape; note clothes may explode if streteched too far.

No assumptions ... the last Dynamic clothes came out this month (and guessing from the sku numbers, they were created recently): http://www.daz3d.com/optitex

The Daz3d I knew stopped being Daz when Dan Farr ... left.

The other guy who opened another store now was responsible for the catastrophic change to the Magento software that created a lot of mayhem and made the PC coupon less valid ... soooo ...

Chris is a freind, Dan never invited me fishing

None the less, you should check hivewire, quite a few of the people there are the people that used to be DAZ

I may be wrong but I think Dan is there too I mean there is more DAZ at hivewire then at DAZ

My point was there just doesn't seem to be any spark left in that DAZ/Optitex partnership.

good text thanks

Proof of excellence!

Oh how I wish some cowboy would anonymously, or otherwise, post the script at sharecg or the like for the scriptural illiterate like me.

And what external applications, exactly, are required to calculate and create the complex lines that are pasted into the duf file for the seams and buttons if one would learn to script?

@ mmogul  Thanks for this good POC, its a shame legalities have bought experimentation with this to a somewhat halt. But a very interesting experience all the same.

@ manleystanley I think for Daz Studio to have a better dynamic clothing experience the Optitex relationship doesnt look to have much of a future. Despite the technological capacity of this tech, the licence specifications have left it bound and quite niched. I for one would like to see a more inclusive and user friendly dynamic type clothing for Daz Studio.

@ manleystanley As far as I know Dan isnt involved with Hivewire3D in any official capacity his latest baby has been founding the salt lake city comic con. And as sad as it is Daz 3d changed because it had to, to survive as a business. And I for one have seen a improvement in a lot of area's. 

The dynamic in Daz si great but there isn't a lot of content, and I agree that it was a bit silly to limit it to just the one bloke! Trouble is now all he makes is stuff for Genisis and I'm still using the older models and don't feel/can't afford upgrading and all the expense that entails.

Quote - The dynamic in Daz si great but there isn't a lot of content, and I agree that it was a bit silly to limit it to just the one bloke! Trouble is now all he makes is stuff for Genisis and I'm still using the older models and don't feel/can't afford upgrading and all the expense that entails.

http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/Store.php

22 pages of dynamic clothing for Studio, for mil4 figures, at 1/5 the cost of optitex clothes on DAZ. That is what has caused the rift IMHO. If I buy any optitex dynamic cloths it wont be from DAZ. 

"I for one would like to see a more inclusive and user friendly dynamic type clothing for Daz Studio."

Ah Razor42 if you were only here when it started. We said the same thing at the time and basically got slapped down and told love it or buy Poser. You completly missed out on DAZ's claims and promises about Optitex dynamic clothing in Studio and Carrara. And how we were going to get the dynamic clothing creation app. Typical of DAZ, no follow through.

"And I for one have seen a improvement in a lot of area's".

And what color glasses are you wearing? Might they be rose?

And what color glasses are you wearing? Might they be rose?...meh

One of the main issues i have with optitex clothing is to access the creation tools, i need to license software with optitex for around 600 dollars per month for as long as i want to use them. an investment of around $7000 per annum is a lot to recap in sales before a profit is possible.(this is the main reason there isnt an abundance of clothing available imho)

For Daz to bring optitex dynamic creation tools into studio and carrara it would be reliant on setting up a deal with optitex. I have the feeling the issues may have been based around Price point. Optitex as i said for similar stand alone tools charges around $7000 per annum. How much would you be prepared to pay for a plugin in to daz or carrara?  Lets go nuts and slash it to $3000 one off payment? Still interested?

Most businesses arent big on setting up side avenues that massively undercut there main revenue stream.

What would you suggest to get this relationship back on track?

manleystanley  I've got all the optitex store stuff, but thanks for the link. Even here though I feel and it is just an "IMO", the creation of clothes has stopped, the new Genesis is just the old stuff redesigned for easy use with the new figure.

Also again in “IMO” the quality of the clothes was slacking off, at the beginning you got a lot for your bucks, but not so much later on.

That is suppose is the trouble with all your eggs in one basket. 

Can't argue with ether of you, your points are valid.

"Lets go nuts and slash it to $3000 one off payment? Still interested"?

For what DAZ is charging for optitex dynaimic clothes, that would take what 2 months to pay off? Even if it took 6 months to pay off it would still be worth the investment.

I know not every DAZ PA is using top of the line software, but some use 3DS; $3675, or Modo; $1495. So actually $3000 is what you would pay for a top of the line CG app. {and why I bought carrara to begin with. One good thing about carrara is the price hasn't went up in all these years still runs $550} 

But seriously, I don't have enough of a hint of what went on where to speculate what the issue is. I know things changed abruptly with the release of Studio 4; as did many things.

What I do know is DAZ made some wild promises to begin with and then failed to meet those promeses. But that is nothing new for DAZ and why DAZ doesn't announce much any more.

At the onset, when DAZ was hyping all this they claimed there would be the optitex sim in Studio and Carrara, that there would be the dynaimc clothing control for Studio and carrara, and I beleve it was a standalone for the creation app so clothes could be used in both Studio and carrara. Studio got the sim and control plugins, then we were told it wasn't coming to carrara, then nothing, dead topic that will be deleted off the DAZ forum in a heart beat.

It's is quite apparent what we have now is all we will get.

Now I will speculatate that the dynaimc clothes weren't the big seller DAZ was hoping they would be, so DAZ cut their losses by stopping further development.

As far as Optitex under cutting DAZ, when hasn't it been cheeper to go to the manufacturer to buy commodities? You always save money cutting out the middle man, and lets face it DAZ being a content broker means they are just the hosting middle man. And you know as well as I just how much of your pie DAZ gets. So any indavidual using Optitex software to make clothes has to keep their price high to cover that cost, then DAZ doubles that and wonders why Optitex clothes aren't selling well at the DAZ store. I know DAZ needs to make a profit, but you wont make any profit from nonsales do to over pricing. As in to make a profit off an item it actually has to sell. If it's over priced and not selling you aren't making any profit.

To tell you the truth I have never gotten Otitex clothes from DAZ, I have always gotten them from Optitex. Being a C.O.B{cheep old Bas} when I can get a clothing collection for the cost of a pair of pants and a vest on DAZ, that is where I am going to be shopping. In my little town here we have 2 gas stations. If one drops their price the other does, it's called compatition. If DAZ would rather lose sales then cut prices to be competetive, that's on DAZ.

Now I have been hunting for vids people have done using Optitex clothes in Studio, but I'm not really finding much. Not sure if very few people are using it or I'm looking in the wrong place. But Optitex dynaimc clothes don't seem very popular with studio users.

I've used the dynaimc clothes quite a bit; or atleast done a bunch of tests and experaments. I works well enough but takes some prep and effort to get good results. That in and of it's self may be the issue. Seems a lot of studio users don't want to put any more effort in to it then load and shoot. So prep work is not an option for them. If it doesn't just load and work, they wont use it. As in I was working on a scene with V4 sitting down in a chair then getting back up. The optitex dress kept swinging under the chair and snagging. I had to make a cube the same size as the chair base, run the sim, the replace the cube with the chair for the render. Worked well but simple prop swapping seems too much for some people.

But that is a different argument

I just want to throw in my two cents, since I'm here anyway.  Really, this is cool that dynamic cloth can be "made" for Daz studio by anyone, but the fact that it should come to this is ridiculous.  If you ask me, Optitex should've worked a lot on dynamic cloth, said "screw daz3d" and sold their stuff elsewhere, it would've been popular. HOnestly, I prefer DS's dynamics to poser's, much easier to use and you don't have to use the timeline, and stuff, for it to work, just for really great renders.  Plus it's easier, just conform it, click a button, and let it go shrug I think some of the main turn-offs for users are, well, the expensive prices, for starters, and the fact that it's not that flexible.  take for example on of the dynamic shirts (an optitex freebie, the M4 one, what have you), and if you want them longer, you're out of luck, since there's no way I know of to change that.  That's another huge issue, forcing you to buy multiple products when adding a simple ability to scale up or down without having to worry about the cloth shrinking back to normal size, would be very helpful.  

One more thing that I think is hurting dynamic stoff, and Optitex's reputation, take one of their latest cloth items I've used, the V6 dynamic lingerie.  Used to you bought a dynamic cloth item and it came with several morphs, but now, nope, you get the same level of freedom as with the old freebie stuff, which has faded into obscurity, with no updates in two years or so.  But anyway, you get little-to-no useful morphs anymore, like with the V6 lingerie, the two dress-like things, length morphs would've been nice, or something.  I used genesis stuff before and it was the same way.  

Anyway, I can't think of what more I want to say, sorry for ranting folks, but I had to offer some input ^^; 

Totally agree bt12345678, the effort put into the clothes now is not what it was, but the price is still the same. If daz really had wanted dynamics to take off they'd have left it more open for others to get involved.

Im not sure if you guys are aware but optitex main market isn't Daz Studio or even clothing for daz. In fact i dont think you will find Daz mentioned anywhere on there site. I believe the main reason you dont see more optitex dynamic clothing is that optitex doesnt allow a hobbyist priced license for designing/converting the clothing. For a vendor to make this type of clothing they need to purchase software from optitex for around 7000$ a year. Plus i believe you need to purchase additional training modules to learn the apps. 

Optitex is aimed squarely at the top end of town with clients like harley davidson, victoria's secret, Tommy hilfinger...I honestly dont think Daz Studio is even on there radar, Unfortunately.

Have a look at there main site here http://www.optitex.com/

No I did not realise that this company had anythign ot do with the daz plug-in.No price is mentioned anywhere,must be if you have to ask you can't afford it!! :)

Hmm ... interesting, the converted clothing items that worked before don't work anymore in the latest release candidate ...

Wouldn't be surprised if they threw in a couple more obstacles to prevent this.

Quote - Hmm ... interesting, the converted clothing items that worked before don't work anymore in the latest release candidate ...

Wouldn't be surprised if they threw in a couple more obstacles to prevent this.

Insert snyd comment about DAZ

Quote - > Quote - Hmm ... interesting, the converted clothing items that worked before don't work anymore in the latest release candidate ...

Wouldn't be surprised if they threw in a couple more obstacles to prevent this.

Insert snyd comment about DAZ

Yeah, the hide to patch a hack that breaches licences...

Not arguing with you there, you're right. But DAZ fixing things by braking them is SOP.

Meh, well you know what they say about opinions...

Yup, opinions are like asses, everyone has one and they are usually full of .....

Seriously, you've only seen DAZ from the Studio prespective. Being a carraraest at DAZ is a real eye opener ;)

Try this. The new big feature in C5 was DAZ mil3 figure compatability and transposer, so you could move your scenes; including dynaimc clothing scenes/animstions, to carrara from Poser. DAZ borked that in C6. The new big feature in C6 was dynaimc hair, DAZ borked that in C7. Can't remeber what the new big thing in C7 was, but as far as DAZ builds of carrara C7 was the best. The new big thing in C8 was modeling in the assembly room, broke in C8.5, the big thing{and reason for} C8.5 was genesis compatability. Which is about an exceptable 85% compatable, G2F/M not so much. In fact any poses released by DAZ in the last 2 years for genesis or G2F/M do not work in carrara; so most of what we paid for in C8.5 is parcially borked.

So basically I paid for a 2 year out of date for their own content, DAZ app. And no update/patch in 9 months, and I'm some how suposed to be happy about that?

Do ya feel me now?

Well to coin another cliche for you, whats the definition of insanity?

Ive heard most these of gripes before. If carrara is so borked why dont you cut your losses and find something that lives up to higher expectations I hear Maya is good its about $5000. Or Vue Infinite for about $1200.

How much did you say Carrara cost you again? Or Studio? Or Genesis?

But I know its not about how much you paid its about the broken promises, the failure to live up to sales hype?

I give you a challenge mate find another app with half of the capabilites of Carrara for an equivalent price?

Developers have finite resources. These apps are constantly evolving and improving but no developer can throw limitless amounts of capital and resources at projects. R&D is always closely tuned to return and investment. If things are not working the way you want in Carrara I imagine there are real world problems that will require real world resources and capital to create solutions. If the investment is greater than the expected return its called leaking captial. Leak to much capital and a business will capsize. Then you will have a long wait for updates of any kind.

The hard reality is maybe Cararra is not selling enough to generate a high enough potential return to invest in solving these issues.

You feeling me?

My Jeep needs a powersteering pump, the neutral sending switch is giving me greif, the turn signal is broke on one side so wont auto off and being half deaf I don't realize it's on, the drivers seat is shot, the paint is scratched. So should I give it up?

Are you mad?   Give up my Jeep?   I'd rather do what ever I can to fix it

And with DAZ and carrara all I can do is gripe 

"Developers have finite resources."

"The hard reality is maybe Cararra is not selling enough to generate a high enough potential return to invest in solving these issues".

You make it sound like DAZ is doing poorly, quite the contray, DAZ is doing quite well, it has an exsive amount of money coming in compared to it's cost of operation.

And DAZ has never promoted carrara with the vim and vigor it does with Studio. Look around, the only place you saw anything about the release of Carrara 8.5 was on the carrara forums, and pretty much from users not DAZ. That is the way it has been since DAZ bought carrara. DAZ has always fail to promote it well, if at all.

So the free app; Studio, get 6 updates in 3 years, and the paid for app gets one. Does that sound right, or fair to you? Why should I buy something DAZ is failing to suport? So once again DAZ costs it's self sales.

If carrara isn't selling well all the blaim is on DAZ.

DAZ doesn't seem to realize carraraests are just as much customers as Studioers.

I wouldn't be in this forum if I didn't use Studio and was a DAZ content customer. But I am forever made to feel like a second class citizen at DAZ. The way to change that isn't to leave DAZ.

Quote - You make it sound like DAZ is doing poorly, quite the contrary, DAZ is doing quite well, it has an extensive amount of money coming in compared to it's cost of operation.

Yes after a lot of reform and structural changes I believe Daz is now doing quite well as an organistion, from what I hear. I believe though it's more a question of revenue streams. When you have a number of success stories do you pour the returns into a struggling dwindling stream or reinvest in the streams that are flowing nicely. Decisions like these ones can be the difference between doing quite well and closing the doors due to lack of capital.

Quote - So the free app; Studio, get 6 updates in 3 years, and the paid for app gets one. Does that sound right, or fair to you? Why should I buy something DAZ is failing to suport? So once again DAZ costs it's self sales.

Maybe Daz Studio has a revenue stream that is more than %600 larger than Carrara?

Strange that a company called Daz3D would prioritise there in house developed app called Daz Studio. While maintaining but not quite so vigorously supporting app's they acquired that call back to the days of yore when Ray Dream Studio and Metacreations were stretching there legs. A real head scratcher :)

Quote - DAZ doesn't seem to realize carraraests are just as much customers as Studioers.

Any idea what the market ratio is? Maybe 90% of customers are Daz Studio Users? If thats the case seems that maybe Carrara'ist's are getting a little more than there fair share? Maybe I should complain to Daz3D, heh?

As far as your Jeep analogy goes, what would happen if you were driving along in your much loved old jalopy and accidently you dropped your pipe and when your reached for it you had a small run in with a signpost. You call a tow truck to the mechanic and he looks the Jeep over and says. "Well sorry mate, the cost to repair this one will be more than what its worth. " Do you pay to repair even though you can purchase a newer model in better condition for a cheaper price than the repair quote?

I'm not saying Carrara is a write off. But I think you need to keep things in there perspective. A lot of your issues seem to be quite overblown and dramatic. I think a lot of people tend to discard the issues you raise because of the drama attached. People do tend to discard all kinds of arguments if there is a sniff of irrationality about them.

As far as being second class goes I think thats a mantle you've placed apon yourself. I do understand your "gripes" but from what I've seen its the negative light that you place Daz3D in and the tendency to be over dramatic that causes so much contention. Try Constructive Criticism rather than holy smokes it's a flaming troll maybe?

;) As far as not leaving Daz, maybe you guys just need a little marriage counselling. You know to bring out the best in each other rather than surviving in an abusive relationship.

Hang in there Manley :)

Dude I sware I'm going to pull out that Sp3 DAZ cheerleader. You make it sound like it takes more then one person at DAZ to maintain the store. DAZ is little more the a content broker now, one or two people could keep things running there and the way it looks, that might be all there is at DAZ; full time.

Please take in to account there are many people with far more credbility then I saying the same thing about DAZ and carrara. They just seem to have this ability I don't, which is to say bad things nicly.

There is a difference between some machanical foubals that can be fixed but don't impead the operation of the vehical and a totaled out wreck. Carrara is far from a totaled out wreck. But lets carry on with that anology. You take your car to the machanic, it needs it's 50K mile tune up. You go back to pick up your car, you get the bill, pay it and on the drive home find the car runs worse then when you took it in, the radio and left turn signal dosen't work and the brakes squeck. So you take it back to the machanic and he says sorry we'll call you when we can work on it, then doesn't call you. So you are stuck with the vehical your machanic borked and charged you for then proceeded to avoid their responcability to fix it, at all costs. Even at the loss of sales and long time patrines.

"Yes after a lot of reform and structural changes I believe Daz is now doing quite well as an organistion, from what I hear. I believe though it's more a question of revenue streams."

Yes, they bought out DAZ, fired all the origenal people, and turned DAZ in to nothing more then a content brokerage with a minimal coast of operation, maximising their profit and putting none of it back in the busness. They have been doing it for 3 years.

And beleive me, all carraraests feel like second class citezens at DAZ, not just me. I wouldn't get this sort of argument on the carrara forum because everyone there agrees with me.

"Lets see put money in the tinker toy sales gimmick or the actual CG app? Hmm, well you know people will forgive bugs and issues in the free one so it doesn't matter how well that one is developed. The people with the actual CG app want it to work right and work as advertised. So lets put our time in on the tinker toy app because it's usesers are more forgiving or our inept development".

Tell me you don't forgive Studio many of it's flaws because it's free.

DAZ puts development money in to carrara; or what's left after they cut their profit margen out of it, based on carrara sales. DAZ puts money in to Studio based on content sales.

Please tell me what is over blown about me expecting the application developer to actually, well, develop the app, or at least fix it. If you listen to DAZ C8.5 was the best selling build of carrara to date; and the BS meter says./. If that is so why hasn't any of that revenu went back in to carrara to fix all the bugs and features DAZ broke in the release?

Well that is easy, DAZ has no developers on staff.

And beleve me, I tried to do it the right way. I have been a game and application alpha/beta tester for 16 years; I was a DAZ Hexagon 2.5 beta tester. I tried to work with DAZ, I treid to be a good supporer, I got kicked in the teeth. I actaully had a DAZ rep tell me that DAZ would tell us carraraest what we wanted in carrara because we didn't really know; and that person is the one person I have no respect for but will still argue tooth and nail with.

As I have said, you see all this from the DAZ golden child prospect, you need to climb down from that guilded cage and stand here in the muck with the rest of us in the DAZ family.

Really is it asking to much for DAZ to fix what they break and give us what they promis, is it asking to much to get what I PAY for?

Man this is a solid rant, to be honest theres a lot here,mainly speculation and opinion but it quite a wall of text all the same.

Quote - There is a difference between some machanical foubals that can be fixed but don't impead the operation of the vehical and a totaled out wreck. Carrara is far from a totaled out wreck. But lets carry on with that anology. You take your car to the machanic, it needs it's 50K mile tune up. You go back to pick up your car, you get the bill, pay it and on the drive home find the car runs worse then when you took it in, the radio and left turn signal dosen't work and the brakes squeck. So you take it back to the machanic and he says sorry we'll call you when we can work on it, then doesn't call you. So you are stuck with the vehical your machanic borked and charged you for then proceeded to avoid their responcability to fix it, at all costs. Even at the loss of sales and long time patrines.

I'd go to a new mechanic... (Your telling my you cant squeeze this ferrari V12 into my model T...)

Quote - to avoid their responcability to fix it, at all costs.

Freudian Slip here maybe?

Quote -  You make it sound like it takes more then one person at DAZ to maintain the store. DAZ is little more the a content broker now, one or two people could keep things running there and the way it looks, that might be all there is at DAZ; full time.

Inaccurate speculation and opinion. Bordering on slander.

Quote -  Yes, they bought out DAZ, fired all the origenal people, and turned DAZ in to nothing more then a content brokerage with a minimal coast of operation, maximising their profit and putting none of it back in the busness. They have been doing it for 3 years.

Sheer opinion and also wrong in what I've personally seen.

Quote - "Lets see put money in the tinker toy sales gimmick or the actual CG app? Hmm, well you know people will forgive bugs and issues in the free one so it doesn't matter how well that one is developed. The people with the actual CG app want it to work right and work as advertised. So lets put our time in on the tinker toy app because it's usesers are more forgiving or our inept development".

This is a moot point, as you said Carrara and Daz Studio have different profit models one being a ticketed price the other being Freemium. Both valid and honest ways of making a profit from a software package. Neither makes the other a tinker toy. Though one is slowly becoming a bit of a dinosaur. ;)

Quote - DAZ puts development money in to carrara; or what's left after they cut their profit margen out of it, based on carrara sales. DAZ puts money in to Studio based on content sales.

I see, sounds like you have eyes on the inside... oh wait, just more speculation.

Quote - Please tell me what is over blown about me expecting the application developer to actually, well, develop the app, or at least fix it. If you listen to DAZ C8.5 was the best selling build of carrara to date; and the BS meter says./. If that is so why hasn't any of that revenu went back in to carrara to fix all the bugs and features DAZ broke in the release?

Site a reference here or just more speculation? Unrealistic expectations may be something you have heard before in the past?

Quote - As I have said, you see all this from the DAZ golden child prospect, you need to climb down from that guilded cage and stand here in the muck with the rest of us in the DAZ family.

Er... no thanks mate. Your not quite the sales man you think you are. Im perfectly happy where I am. And to be honest I can be quite a cynic at times but I dont have anything on you mate. The world is what you make of it, maybe you see muck and I see fertiliser to nourish my veggies :) 

You keep grinding that axe and you'll lose an arm my friend :)

Look Manley I do understand that you have frustrations with Carrara development and some of the implementation of newer versions. Not being a Carrara user myself I guess I have a different view of Daz3D and its operations as its not impacted by these issues.

Being from such different view points we are probably going to struggle to ever come to any kind of singular view point on these things.

So I propose a truce, I will sympathise and empathise with you Carraraiest "the red headed step children of the family". I will also try to keep an open mind to the issues you guys face with the development and lack of updates to solve real problems that you are dealing with.

All that I ask of you is that you respect there a lot of people who are quite happy with Daz3D and its software. And While its not all perfect. Pls try not to piss in my coffee everyday just so I can also know the taste that makes yourself so bitter. Given time these issues will either be solved or become redundant. Maybe any day now Carrara 9 will drop and leave everyone drooling over the deftness of its implementation or maybe it will be quite a wait and tbh I wouldnt expect it anytime soon.

Also Pls understand that ranting in the Daz Studio Forum about Carrara Issues isn't the best platform for gaining traction with Daz3D regarding fixing the issues with Carrara.

So what do you say we agree to disagree?

Seriously, just the acknowledgment that the DAZ you; or Dazzers/Dazzies{?} see is not the same DAZ we carraraest have to deal with, was enough for me.

Sorry I am just sharpest in the AM; in more ways the one lol

You want to see something interesting? Go to the carraracafe and see if any one but me is cheering for gensis or G2F/M. 

DAZ's push to bring carrara in to the DAZ fould{?} was to make carrara DAZ content freindly. Fine by me. I've done it the long way, I have nether the patience or the attention span for it lol I love all the DAZ redyware/use content. I love that DAZ has carrara and Studio communicating as well as they do, I make full use of it; and am one of the very few. So don't think it's all bad. Most of the time I can work for hours on end and not sweet the small stuff. Like having to reapply textures. Minor issue at best because I have to reset the shader any way, just a few extra clicks to reapply the texture and effects maps.

Look at it this way; some thing I can actually do, if DAZ hadn't borked autofit in the release version of C8.5 I wouldn't have learned what Studio was capable of as far as clothing conversion. It was a bumpy ride but I am having fun with it now. I mean I have to learn mostly from hunt and peck, apply it and see what happens. I have issues understanding video tutorials. I need them in small terms with plenty of circles and arrows. lol

But when it comes to forums, judge me by my work, not the amount loud expletives used to get there.

K, so this is what I've gathered from this thread. 1. Once upon a time we could make our own dynamic cloth. Which is great because folks are right: the DAZ dynamic content is extremely lacking. Sure I look at what's available. They're mostly meh. I have specific uses for what I buy. Only one object in the past year, the shawl, has met the need. 2. Now we can't make the dynamic cloth because with 4.7 that's broken? Tell me it ain't so cuz... I have specific needs.... 3. To stay on topic and run the risk of being completely ignored past the ranting and round about unhappiness with things that have nothing to do with DAZ, the moon, unicorns and various things, has anyone tried to beat the problem again? Not that I think we should fix what DAZ keeps breaking so much as we need to fix what DAZ keeps breaking, and understand I've been pretty darned unhappy with DAZ since they broke how I used pwtoon and gave me drama over it when I filed a ticket. SSsooo... can't afford to buy one of these other programs, I make do. 4. Dynamic cloth? Anyone? Wah.

No, not at all. We could never make dynamic clothing for Studio. The problem is easy to beat, buy the application to make them it's only $$$$. Or shop at Optitex, which has a much larger and growing store of dynamic clothing for Studio, and for much less then DAZ charges. 

And there in lays the rub. Optitex selling dynamic clothes on their own site was sort of a fist shaken in DAZ's face, so...

I looked at optitex's site this morning and still it's all meh. So we could never make dynamic clothing for Studio, but no really we could we're just NOT SUPPOSED TO, and yet the instructions that were here used to work. My question was had anyone gotten them to work since the last update. Cuz quite frankly I don't care if Optitex is selling dynamic clothes. Sure they're affordable, but they're also not useful to me. I do care that they have a monopoly on it. But if it can't be done anymore it can't be done and I move on.

K, so this is what I've gathered from this thread. 1. Once upon a time we could make our own dynamic cloth. Which is great because folks are right: the DAZ dynamic content is extremely lacking. Sure I look at what's available. They're mostly meh. I have specific uses for what I buy. Only one object in the past year, the shawl, has met the need. 2. Now we can't make the dynamic cloth because with 4.7 that's broken? Tell me it ain't so cuz... I have specific needs.... 3. To stay on topic and run the risk of being completely ignored past the ranting and round about unhappiness with things that have nothing to do with DAZ, the moon, unicorns and various things, has anyone tried to beat the problem again? Not that I think we should fix what DAZ keeps breaking so much as we need to fix what DAZ keeps breaking, and understand I've been pretty darned unhappy with DAZ since they broke how I used pwtoon and gave me drama over it when I filed a ticket. SSsooo... can't afford to buy one of these other programs, I make do. 4. Dynamic cloth? Anyone? Wah.

DAZ Studio has never had a way to make Dynamic Clothing. Nothing is or was broken in that respect. DAZ Studio has a plug-in that allows you to use and drape cloth that was created in Optitex and then prepared to work in DAZ Studio. Optitex is a (the) professional clothing design software package used by the fashion industry and produces not only very realistic drapes (and with the correct hardware it does it in real time) but also lets you automatically take that same pattern and use it on a Professional Clothing manufacturing machine for cutting from cloth and sewing it. Naturally for all its capabilities, it is not a cheap piece of software. (Depending on your exact features and licensing it is, at the low end, in excess of $10,000.)

The player in DAZ Studio, is just that, a player, and that is all it has ever been. 

A certain individual that was a DAZ 3D, made several promises that should never have been made, and due to these there are a number of people that make all sorts of claims, loosely based on these promises. 

So there is no Dynamic Cloth Creation, other than the Optitex software suite itself which requires a conversion plug-in that has never been released, tools for DAZ Studio, and there never has been any such thing in DS. Nothing has gotten broken. 

Not working for me. Can you help?

This thread is rather old and i believe changes were implemented to close the gaps that this exploit originally made use of unfortunately.

The method posted here still works to an extent, you have to use an Optitex outfit to trigger the drape in anything using the method posted in this thread, grab the free bikini from their site, load the bottoms and set it to collide only with the figure, set the opacity on it's surfaces to 0% to hide it, and then set the dynamic control to drape "all cloth in scene".

bet Bruce is off running to Rob to report that one lol

Lol :D

Still think Daz should be talking to VirtualWorldDynamics and begging the guy to create a plugin for Daz Studio like he's been developing for Poser ;). I'd buy it. LOL

I've made quite a few dynamic items for Poser and I'd LOVE to be able to do the same for DS. I just can't afford such exorbitant prices to do so. If a plugin for dynamics were developed just for DS without such corporate "greediness" to put it mildly, I think DS would have a thriving dynamic clothing line indeed. Just wishful thinking out loud ;).

Laurie