Re: Vickie's clothes

I wonder how much the way the marketplace works has something to do with the sort of products that are created.

I mean that there is a constant pressure to create new products, even for old figures like V4 that have more than enough already.

How many of a vendor's older -- but still perfectly working -- products get featured on the first page? 

If you're a top seller and get featured as VOM, surely customers will delve into your back catalog, which will drive some sales. But what if you're not there yet and still trying to make a name for yourself? Even if you are popular and known, being a front page feature once or twice a year -- is that enough?

Fabiana doesn't pad her catalog with new products. She's one of the very top sellers here (for good reason, too). But would she sell even more if she cut down the quality of her work and released something every 2 weeks?

This isn't something unique to Poser marketplaces. Ebay is the same. Amazon is the same.

An outfit takes weeks to make. Hair perhaps a bit less. Yet there must be pressure to stay on the front page. The competition is fierce.

Maybe every vendor who's been around for a while has had an experience where the outfit they were really excited about and spent two months making sells a bit and then falls into obscurity; and then a re-work of an old mesh, a miniskirt and bikini top, sells just as much for a tenth of the effort.

If outfits took a couple of days to make, I'm sure there'd be a huge variety out there. But a month or more of work is just too much investment of time for something that doesn't get noticed.

Every marketplace is inundated with skimpy clothes for the females. They even dominate the catalog for the newest figures. V6 has hardly any normal clothing, and not a whole lot of fantasy or sci-fi stuff either. But she's ready to rule the red light district.

There's really only one conclusion: Skimp wear for girls sells. It sells so well that it's hard not to make it and make more and more of it. It really IS what the vast majority of the customers want.

Unfortunately, in a free market, you're only going to see products that fill demand. And as much as one might groan and complain about it, it just ISN'T going to change until there's a complete cultural shift. Blaming vendors doesn't make sense. They are small businesses. They don't make enough profit to be able to throw some of it away on experiments.

I'm just thankful that occasionally vendors do see fit to make products for male figures at all. *The fact that vendors consider themselves artists (and many of them really are) and often make what they want, rather than what the boss or market dictates, is probably the only reason we have any male content. *

If you continue to use the same figure and, like me, your modelling skills are very limited,  you are bound to reach a point that very few clothes are anything new and it takes a rare vendor to have the imagination to produce something that is really different.

These days most of my spending money goes on props and scenes but some does still go on clothing.  If it is something a little different in the male clothing line it takes priority as this is rare.  I do occasionally buy some of the so say 'slut ware' but only if I see it has potential to be modified into a Sfi-Fi type outfit with a few changes to the mesh and playing with the materials, for my own personal use of course.

I do render with female figures a lot more than male but part of the problem when I do want to add a male figure is finding a matching outfit.  By matching, I do not mean the same, but something in keeping with the female attire, which is more difficult than it sounds......or at least, it is for me.

Moriador, check your PMs. :)

~Shane

I agree with people who say that male figures do not inspire much variation  on modern clothes, but to be honest, I do have to blame that on the vendors as a "lack of imagination". Granted, most male clothes today all tend to be the same. Jeans, dress pants, a tee shirt and  seem to be the best that today's vendors imagination can muster.  But frankly, most women's clothes have particular styles as well and as someone said earlier, once you've done them you can do the rest with texture sets. Look how many texture sets have been done just for the Morphing Fantasy Dress. Men tend to have activities, and their clothing tends to match those activities. Want to fill up M4's closet? Figure out what activities he does... or that you want him to do. Yeah if all you want him for is eye-candy for the ladies then you're going to be looking at a pretty barren closet.

Quote - I agree with people who say that male figures do not inspire much variation  on modern clothes, but to be honest, I do have to blame that on the vendors as a "lack of imagination". Granted, most male clothes today all tend to be the same. Jeans, dress pants, a tee shirt and  seem to be the best that today's vendors imagination can muster.  But frankly, most women's clothes have particular styles as well and as someone said earlier, once you've done them you can do the rest with texture sets. Look how many texture sets have been done just for the Morphing Fantasy Dress. Men tend to have activities, and their clothing tends to match those activities. Want to fill up M4's closet? Figure out what activities he does... or that you want him to do. Yeah if all you want him for is eye-candy for the ladies then you're going to be looking at a pretty barren closet.

Yes. You're right. Men dress in uniforms. I've been wanting a good quality fireman for ages. There are hundreds of occupational uniforms, for both men and women. Then there are sporting outfits, for hundreds of different sorts of sports. And recreational clothing, from fly fishing to mountain climbing to kayacking.

All I'm saying is that men have styles in how they dress. There's the jock look, rock, preppy look, businessman,  suave , sophisticated, player, gangsta, hip hop homeboy, goth look, emo... and all those are modern looks just for the man of today. And that's a least ten different styles you can make clothes for. After that, you have your sports outfits, adventure outfits, sci-fi outfits, fantasy outfits, historical outifts. And that's just what i can think of off the top of my head.

At the moment, MY biggest problem is that I lack the skill to make some of these clothes. Doesn't mean I won't be trying, though. Otherwise, how will I ever get the skill?

And that's just North America/Europe.

There are also cultural differences, and outfits worn in the rest of the world that vary greatly, and that people ask for, every once in a while.

I admire your response, EC. The challenge is where the learning happens.

Quote - I've been wanting a good quality fireman for ages.

Hmmm...  just so happens I am intimately familiar with fireman stuff.   A set of turnout gear (the firefighting suit {see avatar}, helmet, SCBA air pack, rope rescue harness) for Rex will go on my to-do list.  Maybe a class B everyday uniform too (as opposed to the class A formal dress uniform).

**
@Netherworks**
Are you sure you're replying to the right person?
Sounds like you're replying to someone else :-P

@Moriador
Oh yeah, that's exactly what men like is that!

That's just stupid stuff in IMHO, something for rich people to play with at parties.  If she were blonde she'd at least have been able to claim that it represents "Goldilocks and the Three Bears", but no, she can't even do that 'cause she has the wrong hair colour :-D

All vendors have the same motivation. Dollars. They make what sells.
No need to look furhter then that.

Is it the market that drives the vendors?
Or are the vendors driving the market?

None of the aove.

The "Dollars" make the market grow the way it does.

Quote - All vendors have the same motivation. Dollars. They make what sells.
No need to look furhter then that.

Is it the market that drives the vendors?
Or are the vendors driving the market?

None of the aove.

The "Dollars" make the market grow the way it does.

I agree to an extent, but then all that I've said before also plays a part. Only a few vendors can actually make a living at this anyway, and look who the most earning vendors are. Those that make props. If I was only in it for the money, that's what I'd be doing.

Yes Earl, sometimes It feels like "we" are the stupid ones.

Having to deal with all those bends, twists and side-sides, morphs and scaling.

**And then see? ?
**
The historical unrealistc Roxie The Roman still wins it from Rex.
(no woman went into battle in those days )

But both where fun to make.

LOL.

QUOTE:***
"I agree to an extent, but then all that I've said before also plays a part. Only a few vendors can actually make a living at this anyway, and look who the most earning vendors are. Those that make props. If I was only in it for the money, that's what I'd b*e doing."

***I've been thinking along those lines too.  I think I should forget about figure work and concentrate on props/scenes instead.  The good thing about creating your own props/scenes is you don't have to concern yourself with problems left by other vendors; you have complete quality control over the outcome of your own product.

Quote - > Quote - I've been wanting a good quality fireman for ages.

Hmmm...  just so happens I am intimately familiar with fireman stuff.   A set of turnout gear (the firefighting suit {see avatar}, helmet, SCBA air pack, rope rescue harness) for Rex will go on my to-do list.  Maybe a class B everyday uniform too (as opposed to the class A formal dress uniform).

Sweet! Even better when uniforms are made by someone who knows how they are supposed to look. I'll look forward to it. :)

poor Tyler neglected.

At this point, I've actually released more things for Tyler than I have for Rex. Tyler's got a suit, Sweats, a Cowboy oufit and cargo jeans and a shirt.

Quote - At this point, I've actually released more things for Tyler than I have for Rex. Tyler's got a suit, Sweats, a Cowboy oufit and cargo jeans and a shirt.

And they are great to have.

You know, I believe I have to take that back. Rex has a turtleneck, casual clothes, a Speedo, a tennis outfit, a bodysuit and a fishtail. That damn fishtail!!!!!

Quote - poor Tyler neglected.

Yeah. Nothing much happened there, did it?

I converted some M3 and M4 stuff for him, but since a lot of that is armour or sci-fi kit then it's actually fairly pointless. It makes very little difference what figure's inside it so might just as well save the effort and use M3 or M4 instead.

When I bought the M4 model there was a glut of clothing and items for him at DAZ.  But when I began actually rendering a year or so later everything just about dissapeared so I've been making my own stuff for him in Hexagon. (In fact I make everything, hair, props, sets and so on in Hexagon)  When I began posting renders there someone in the forums got excited and asked if I would release some of the clothing I made for the characters.

As a product you push what sells the most.  I think a lot of things that have to do with rendering revolves around selling products.  My email is often crammed with adverts from DAZ even though I have the box "recieve product notices" unticked in my settings.  If you post a comment or render to your gallery there, you'll get advertising from them soon afterward. 

Most rendering groups I've seen at dA and elsewhere often have contests and challenges that require using whatever is the latest release for a specific product.  I think the bottom line is, male figures just don't sell well and aren't a priority. 

All of my renders involve male characters simply because I couldn't afford to buy the morphs for the base V4 that came with DS at the time, this was just supposed to a side hobby that took a while to get into. 

Quote - > Quote - poor Tyler neglected.

Yeah. Nothing much happened there, did it?

I converted some M3 and M4 stuff for him, but since a lot of that is armour or sci-fi kit then it's actually fairly pointless. It makes very little difference what figure's inside it so might just as well save the effort and use M3 or M4 instead.

Tyler is a nice lookin male.  maybe if we posted more renders of him in the gallery he'd gain some support.

It would be nice. I don't often get to see my clothes on the Poser figures. Not much fun making them if you feel no one's ever going to use them.

is Ben Poser 6 and Ben Poser 7 exactly the same?  subtle differences?

Quote - is Ben Poser 6 and Ben Poser 7 exactly the same?  subtle differences?

Yes. Their faces are slightly different. P6 Ben's head is a bit larger and more rounded. The mesh and rig is the same. 

Same with Kate. And both Ben and Kate are the same mesh.

~Shane

Quote - Tyler is a nice lookin male.  maybe if we posted more renders of him in the gallery he'd gain some support.

Quote - It would be nice. I don't often get to see my clothes on the Poser figures. Not much fun making them if you feel no one's ever going to use them.

Alright. I take that as a challenge. Time to flex my rendering muscles and see what I can do. :)

he needs that lil line of hair though, under the bellybutton.

Ah yes, a happy trail ;)

Laurie

Hah. I spent several hours experimenting with all of his features the other night. I was quite impressed. But I also came to the same conclusion. It's a crying shame to put clothes on that body.

yummiii moriador

gave him a try with Ben's hair.  a young robert redford?

he needs a morph to like bring down the dome of his head a bit, to fit more hair props

NTITWABA = Naked Tyler in a temple with a broadaxe.

To me he looks very much like a young Peter 0'Toole. He just needs those exceedingly blue Irish eyes. :)

Quote - NTITWABA = Naked Tyler in a temple with a broadaxe.

Hmmm. Male attendance at religious institutions is much lower than that of the females. Perhaps we could render him in an arena. :D

Naked Tyler in a hammock with a beerr

Naked Tyler in a gym with a wrestler

Naked Tyler in a dream with a boa

:roll:

I hope that's a female wrestler, preferably covered in jello, grease or mud.

nope, not a female wrestler ;)

Naked Tyler in a catfight with ...

no one's made catfight poses for Anna or tyler yet. or mud suits. :)

Quote - I hope that's a female wrestler, preferably covered in jello, grease or mud.

Nah. This is our fantasy. I don't know about Misty, but I figure, as long as I'm just looking, 2 naked guys are better than 1. :D

Quote - > Quote - I hope that's a female wrestler, preferably covered in jello, grease or mud.

Nah. This is our fantasy. I don't know about Misty, but I figure, as long as I'm just looking, 2 naked guys are better than 1. :D

Well, being neither gay, bisexual or female... I'm out. :)

a swole fbm for tyler would be something i'd spend a few bucks on ;)

needs more character head morphs too.

Have you noticed the Alex head morph that comes with Tyler? I prefer that one to the default. More masculine, less creepy/Ryan, lol. 

~Shane

Quote - Have you noticed the Alex head morph that comes with Tyler? I prefer that one to the default. More masculine, less creepy/Ryan, lol. 

 

~Shane

Oh, gawd, yes. Even Gabe's "fixed up" Ryan face is, um, well... he's not the best looking fellow I've ever seen, let's put it that way.

Tyler has enough morphs in his head that I can make quite a variety of characters, and generally that's the first thing I do after I load him. Nothing wrong with the Alex face at all. I don't know why that's not the default.

well, i hazhis wetsuit

just need it to be alot more peek-a-boo  :laugh:

if only the pollen would let me breathe >.<

Quote - well, i hazhis wetsuit

just need it to be alot more peek-a-boo  :laugh:

 

if only the pollen would let me breathe >.<

What is preventing you from making it "a lot more peek-a-boo"?

Pull the texture into your .jpg manipulator of choice and have at it.

I myself rarely make Male renders-and if I do it's likely going to be a look alike character (I.E. a movie/TV star)

was there a tyler render thread?

he was bundled into the anastasia d/l, so he really didn't have his own fanfare?

Quote - was there a tyler render thread?

he was bundled into the anastasia d/l, so he really didn't have his own fanfare?

As far as i know, Tyler never had a render thread.

Quote - > Quote - Tyler don't need no stinking clothes.  tee hee.

Hah. I spent several hours experimenting with all of his features the other night. I was quite impressed. But I also came to the same conclusion. It's a crying shame to put clothes on that body.

Have to agree, looking at that! :thumbupboth:

What was I thinking, wasting my time putting clothes on that?!

Agree the Alex head is better than the default. Still, who needs to see his face?

Was there ever an update to fix his foreskin? Blackhearted did mention something about looking into fixing it, but I don't know if anything ever happened.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Tyler don't need no stinking clothes.  tee hee.

Hah. I spent several hours experimenting with all of his features the other night. I was quite impressed. But I also came to the same conclusion. It's a crying shame to put clothes on that body.

Have to agree, looking at that! :thumbupboth:

What was I thinking, wasting my time putting clothes on that?!

Agree the Alex head is better than the default. Still, who needs to see his face?

Was there ever an update to fix his foreskin? Blackhearted did mention something about looking into fixing it, but I don't know if anything ever happened.

Foreskin?

Quote - Foreskin?

Yeah. If you switch his foreskin morph on and then try to pose his junk, or add any other morphs - horrible things happened. Horrible, horrible things..... :scared: