or.. there is the PLE editions to try out. all the features and a few limits and watermarks. good to see if it's worth the money to you....

Quote - or.. there is the PLE editions to try out. all the features and a few limits and watermarks. good to see if it's worth the money to you....

Thanks that does appear to be the sensible way to proceed.

e-onsoftware.com/products/?page=try

add the usual in front ;-)

has exporting an stuff disabled but it seems to be a 30 day trial to me

if there's catch's I didnt see them

the ple editions are on same page (are they the ones you get as a student?)

Don't know what you're clicking on, Hornet, but if I choose UK as the purchase zone, it tells me the prices are "Excluding VAT and Shipment".

We can avoid the shipment cost by downloading, but we can't excape the VAT, and now, the 10% on top of that for Bank Charges.  And I made a mistake, Complete is actually $599, not $399, and Studio still doesn't include both modules needed for the EcoSystem to be complete.

• So $599 converted to Pounds Sterling would make it £356 for Complete.
• £356 + 20% VAT would bring it to £427
• £427 + New 10% Bank Charges would bring it to a grand total of £469
• £469 converted back to USD would be $790 for Vue Complete.
• That's $790 to us just because we live in England (even without a physical shipment).

Unless I've miscalculated that, it sure looks like we have to pay almost double the amount a US citizen would.  To us, Vue Complete is more like $790, not $599.  Cool as it maybe, there's no way I'm paying almost £470 to have the luxury of painting shrubbery into a scene.

Vue is always tempting, but I'd rather wait for it to come to Blender.  Like I said, it's the prices that keep me away from Vue, not the program itself.  Just be careful of how you add-up the costs, hornet, because the prices don't include VAT or anything else from what I've read on their website today.

Sorry heddheld, crossposted.
Ah, you mean the trials, yup I know about those, I thought you meant discout pricing ;-)

@Pumeco

I am in full agreement with your maths and it has long been the case that the dollar to pound conversion ends up at around 1:1, by which I mean we pay in pounds what they pay in dollers in the US.  However, when I put Studio in the basket and went to check out the total cost of Studio was marked as $399 including VAT and shipping so there is a issue somewhere.  I was logged in and it is a UK address so I not sure how I could have got it wrong.  This was for the physical copy as I could not find a download option but then I have never found the site the most user friendly but that could just be me.

If you're getting prices in USD, it sounds like you might be using the US shop rather than the UK one, and if that's the case, I'm guessing the transaction will get so far, and then they'll add on the VAT, and then your Bank will add on a totally unfounded 10% on top of that.

As soon as your address is input, you effectively tell them you're in the UK.  And to add further insult, the excuse the Banks use for the new bank charges is that it applies for anything that is not purchased in your own currency.  Makes no difference that we're part of Europe, they're allowed to do as they please.

The problem is that even on E-On's UK site, the prices are in Euros, not Sterling.  So that means the bank still gets to screw you for 10% on top of the already inflated total including VAT, even though you used the UK site and have paid your VAT.

Just looked into this, and the good news is that I just found out that the stealth charge of 10% is actually supposed to be 2.99% (or 3% unless you're sucked-in by banker talk).

You can re-adjust those calculations by swapping the 10% charge for a 2.99% charge and then adding yet another petty fee of £1 on top of that.  I'm going to be talking to my bank on Monday, because if this is another one of their illegal miser schemes I'll be switching to another bank.

So basically, Vue Complete in the UK can cost £437 ($735) with the adjustments.

"I'm not misunderstanding what Nygtfall said.  I'm answering his question: I'm saying why I don't think the workflow he suggested is worth the money.  Like I also said, my post is here in agreement with heddheld, that he should at least try to learn Blender while he saves for the other software.

Blender is free, so to not do so would be kinda pointless."

My Many years of experience as a poser user (fractal design poser 2 up to poser 6)
has Shown me one thing:

Poser users have very little interest in completely abandoning a posercentric workflow with regard to humanoid figure handling.
even those of us who have long abandoned
posers native render engine as a"delivery
option" for our stills & animations
This is not a criticism of poser users just an observable reality.

You can sing the praises of superior free high end solutions all you want, Blender,Houdini Apprentice,Project messiah etc etc.
but for poser users the only question that matters is this:

"can I open my poser Figures,mostly women, ( dressed or naked)
with ALL of my SKIN&Clothing Mats into _____________program and hit the render button and have them look Awesome like the renders I see at the SideFX,Autodesk,PMG,Foundry,Cycles etc etc web galleries???"
to that question, the answer for blender is a resounding No..sorry

Free means Nothing if it forces a poser user to give up using poser as a primary tool for figure manipulation for if that were so
no one would be buying $$copies of poser$$ and Fiddling about with some utterly ridiculous, kludgy,resource intensive "DSON" Simulation layer to use genesis,
they would ALL be using the "free" DAZ studio 4.X.

That's a pretty good observation :) but I must say I'm somewhere in between as many probably are. I can model my own stuff, pretty good, been a vendor for a long time now and before that I modeled and did a lot of graphics for games. Still, Poser has a certain appeal and I like to keep it in my toolbox. It's easy to use and gives results pretty fast and I'm really terrible at modeling figures. So, whenever I look for something new in 3D, I always keep in mind the workflow and being compatible with Poser somehow.

For what it's worth, I'm using more men the woman, but also kids and a lot of toon figures, but all of them are always clothed :)

you can make 2d .jpg plants in gimp.

in 4 to 8 hours ya could have a lot

day or 2 a forrest worth.

lol that lets me out if I had that sorta dosh I'd buy a bigger better comp ;-)

Heh, and I totally agree with you wolf (I hope you don't look too shocked) :biggrin:

I'm a designer at heart and I know exactly what makes the popular programs popular:

• Usable design
• Ability to handle figures easily
• Price

The best program out there is the one that has all of these.  So far, none of them do.  Poser has a usable design and works with figures, but it has a price.  DAZ Studio works with figures, doesn't have a price, but the design isn't as good as Poser.  Blender has no price, and the ease of use the others have, will come sooner or later to Blender.

• What will happen when Blender makes ready-made figures, morphing and Posing easy like Poser?
• What will happen when Blender makes painted instancing of plants easy like Vue?

There can only be one winner, eventually, so even though I love Poser and wish I had Vue, I'm perfectly happy to learn the do-it-all giant that is Blender, because it's future is assured, and my ability to have it at my disposal is always guaranteed.  I think that learning it is the best thing I can do, and ignoring it is the worst thing I can do.

You did ask, and that's the only possible answer I can give.

"For what it's worth, I'm using more men the woman..."

Dude, I could help you with that, I'm nearly always naked and willing to play in the Poser viewport!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

"So, whenever I look for something new in 3D, I always keep in mind the workflow and being compatible with Poser somehow."

Same here I am a big believer in have a broad Multidisciplined Skill set ,
I have gotten fairly decent at non organic modeling
very good at post effects with AfterEffects CS
but when it come to creating animated figures I have not been able to drop poser despite many earnest vows to do so on many past occasions.

"- What will happen when Blender has ready-made figures, morphing and Posing like Poser?
- What will happen when Blender can paint instancing of plants with the swipe of a brush like Vue?"

Well when that happens, along with a vibrant,divers &competitive blender figure & clothing content market on par with DAZ,
we may see a Paradigm shift  but alas there will be the economic issue of
"repurchasing everything when I have such a huge investment in poser/daz content"
not to mention leaving the familiar poser user experience

But I am curious as to why the The Blender Foundation has not done so thus far.
Blender has Fluids, Cloth simulation Hair simulation,particle and hard body Dynamic system and an excellent node based material and post effects compositor.
I think they may have a different mindset from the average poser user.

"There can only be one winner, eventually, "

Err.. Why??? this assumes that they are all competing for the SAME Clients/Customers....clearly they are not.

The end user market for CG/3D is way too divers& subjective for every and user to abandon their workflow in favor
of one do it all program ..even a FREE/open source one.

Blender has a free Fluid Simulator yet yet Nextlimit and Niad are still managing to market and sell theirs at exhorbitant prices.

Blenders FREE Node based post effects compositor is Excellent.

yet Adobe and The Foundry are still selling new versions of After Effects and Nuke respectively each Dev cycle.

I suppose I am an average Poser user in so much as I don't often move away and try other render engines.  I do have Reality 3 and thus Luxrender in my set of tools but I use it rarely.  I guess much of the reason is that it does take longer to get a result in the sense you do have to play with the textures/materials.  Reality does a great job of conversion but in the end it can only really be an educated guess.

The other reason I tend to stick in Poser is that my aim is not photo realism but a render that is 'believeable' and there to support a story.  If I did add Vue it would be to create believable, and sometimes vast landscapes.  I have used Vue in the past and enjoyed using it and the results it gave, even if I did find it a beast to use. 

From what I have read Vue 2014 is much slicker and the subscription takes away another of my reservations which was the high cost of staying current, particularly if using the module route.

Quote - Err.. Why??? this assumes that they are all competing for the SAME Clients/Customers....clearly they are not.

The end user market for CG/3D is way too divers& subjective for every and user to abandon their workflow in favor
of one do it all program ..even a FREE/open source one.

Blender has a free Fluid Simulator yet yet Nextlimit and Niad are still managing to market and sell theirs at exhorbitant prices.

Blenders FREE Node based post effects compositor is Excellent.

yet Adobe and The Foundry are still selling new versions of After Effects and Nuke respectively each Dev cycle.

Yes. Precisely.

If everyone who was interested in rendering posed figures was also extremely price conscious and gifted with limitless free time, then the free options would likely dominate.

I suspect, however, that a substantial portion of the CG market is made up of people who are already trained in one or several pieces of software, and that, in a commerical environment with tight deadlines and professionals earning more than minimum wage, it's cheaper to pay a couple of thousand dollars for familiar software than to retrain on a new and free version.

I mean, free (or cheap) is great, but if you can't meet your deadline with it, it suddenly becomes very expensive indeed.

Can't really answer the whole "why free is better" thing because it's such an involved subject and it would never be allowed in the thread anyway.

What I can say, though, is that most people misunderstand what is meant by "free software".  It has nothing to do with price; Blender is "free" because of it's licence, it's a licence designed for "freedom".  No one person or company owns Blender and no one person or company can make decisions for it - that's the beauty of it.

The users are in absolute control of everything Blender stands for, everything it does, everything it's made of.

Quote -
Can't really answer the whole "why free is better" thing because it's such an involved subject and it would never be allowed in the thread anyway.

What I can say, though, is that most people misunderstand what is meant by "free software".  It has nothing to do with price; Blender is "free" because of it's licence, it's a licence designed for "freedom".  No one person or company owns Blender and no one person or company can make decisions for it - that's the beauty of it.

The users are in absolute control of everything Blender stands for, everything it does, everything it's made of.

I totally get that Blender is free in more than just financial terms but along the lines of what Moriador posted, I dont really want to spend the time to learn software even if it is free.  I have used Vue in the past so if I do go down the Vue route that should help.

Nothing against Blender, I use the same principles when it comes to content.  I would rather buy figure for $30 - $60 rather then try and learn the skills to build my own, assuming of course I had the ability to learn those skill.  It might be an age thing as I am at that time of life where I want to enjoy making pictures not learning new software.

Quote - I totally get that Blender is free in more than just financial terms but along the lines of what Moriador posted, I dont really want to spend the time to learn software even if it is free.  I have used Vue in the past so if I do go down the Vue route that should help.

Nothing against Blender, I use the same principles when it comes to content.  I would rather buy figure for $30 - $60 rather then try and learn the skills to build my own, assuming of course I had the ability to learn those skill.  It might be an age thing as I am at that time of life where I want to enjoy making pictures not learning new software.

I don't think it's just an age thing. 

If you're in a commercial production environment, your software needs to fit into other people's pipelines in a way they are accustomed to, and they won't change just to suit you.

If you're a freelancer, you will think in terms of $ per hour, and if buying a figure for $30 saves you several hours of work (nevermind several months), you'll buy it.

And if you're a hobbyist, you'll want to spend your time doing what you enjoy, not what someone else thinks you should enjoy.

Quote - I don't think it's just an age thing. 

If you're in a commercial production environment, your software needs to fit into other people's pipelines in a way they are accustomed to, and they won't change just to suit you.

If you're a freelancer, you will think in terms of $ per hour, and if buying a figure for $30 saves you several hours of work (nevermind several months), you'll buy it.

And if you're a hobbyist, you'll want to spend your time doing what you enjoy, not what someone else thinks you should enjoy.

I totally agree with you, I was not thinking of the commercial aspect because I fall into the last category as a hobbyist.  My commercial skill set was in telecommunications with a little bit of computer work thrown in for good measure.  I have no artistic training at all and came to the world of 3D late in life.  As you say I want to enjoy my time and I have to admit, having retired, I have rather taken to the idea of not having to keep up so I don't need to have a working knowledge of Windows 8 or the latest phones from Samsung, Apple and the rest. 

I am happy to learn new skills but only if a can see enjoyment in the short to medium term.  Hence my intention to dabble with Vue because I have used it in the past and it could be fun again.

Quote - I am happy to learn new skills but only if a can see enjoyment in the short to medium term.  Hence my intention to dabble with Vue because I have used it in the past and it could be fun again.

Yes. Exactly. :)

I like to extend my skillset if I can see a future return in a reasonable amount of time. That's why I read the forums, and it's why I spend time trying to learn to use the software that I have as well as I can. A bit of tinkering can yield excellent results, but I'm not a tinkerer by nature. I don't enjoy it for its own sake.

I've considered going the Poser>Vue route myself, so this thread has been very useful to me. Lots of good stuff in here. The thing that has stopped me is the time it would take to learn another piece of software that I'd use exclusively for rendering. But it is tempting to give it a shot. If you've already got a familiarity with Vue, then it's just a matter of economics and efficiency, which version you need, etc, etc, and there's some good input in this thread in that regard. :)

The thread has been useful, before this I would have gone down the Esprit route and add a few modules but it would appear that a minimum of Studio would be a better place to start.

Quote - For that you don't even need to go Complete at all. Studio will be fine for that with perhaps the ecopaint module as an addition. Complete has the ecopaint as well as the 3Dexport module and an animation module. If you don't need to export from Vue and don't do animation, Studio will be the better choice.

I'm not interested in animating, and am not yet sure what features I will need, but I don't want to later find myself wanting a feature I don't have, either.  That's why I'm looking at Complete.

pumeco,

I may try Blender when the day comes I want to start creating my own content, but for the purpose I've expressed in this thread, Vue sounds like the ideal solution for me.

Thank you all for your input.  I greatly appreciate it.

I've installed the PLE, and will start learning how to use it while saving up for Complete.

Of course, in Blender you would never need to fit into any commercial developer's pipeline anyway.  Restricted formats are not welcome in Blender and will never be allowed into the code.

For those determined to learn Blender, restrictions disappear automatically (and permanently) from the moment they download it.

Click to see something even more confusing than you think Blender is!

Sorry Nygtfall, didn't see your post.

Don't mind me, I'm just replying to the trouble causers here :woot:
I'm sure you'll enjoy Vue big-time, it's a very cool program.

Quote -
Sorry Nygtfall, didn't see your post.

Don't mind me, I'm just replying to the trouble causers here :woot:
I'm sure you'll enjoy Vue big-time, it's a very cool program.

No worries.  It's all good.  Thanks.  :)

Quote - I've considered going the Poser>Vue route myself, so this thread has been very useful to me. Lots of good stuff in here. The thing that has stopped me is the time it would take to learn another piece of software that I'd use exclusively for rendering. But it is tempting to give it a shot. If you've already got a familiarity with Vue, then it's just a matter of economics and efficiency, which version you need, etc, etc, and there's some good input in this thread in that regard. :)

The last version I used was Vue 6 and it was only causally, years ago. Imagine my shock when I got back to Vue last year, overwhelming. I'll be honest, I'm not the person who sits down and watched tutorials a lot, only once in a while. I've only ever watched one poser tutorial in my life on dynamic clothes, the rest I figured it all out myself. Same for a lot of applications I do. The only real course in 3D I followed was when using Hash Animation Master years ago (very cool application by the way, but like blender a real odd one) With Vue I had to sit down and follow a good number of tutorialss, I was so lost without them :) I don't regret it at all. I've still got a number of tutorials on my to do list, did quite some already and it helped me so much.

I only followed www.geekatplay.com tutorials, paid and free ones, since they're affordable. There are others who teach Vue, but they ask way to much for me, Vue was already more then expensive enough. I'm not saying I'm a master at Vue yet, but the tutorials sure helped me to master Vue :)

If I look at my gallery and compare my first renders to the ones Im doing now, I like the progress I do see. Vue is an application you need to sit down for and learn, it's worth it and before you know you're creating some stuff you never thought you could create, but wished you could..... at least that's the way it has been for me :)

ok pumeco 
I manage to explain Marilyn Monroe to ya with out ya thinking I'm crazy.
See if I can explain commercial CGI to ya.
Lets say we work for I.L.M .
We walk in to I.L.M. at 6:01 am Monday morning and George Lucas goes.
Steven Spielberg wants this 2 1/2 minutes long video 100% in CGI buy 11:59 pm Friday night.
Cause he's going to start editing Saturday so the movie will be ready buy Monday.

and I.L.M. does not buy meshes.
so I.L.M has to make all the meshes in the video .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7fWNGrarFY

So how are we going to get all this done buy 11:59 pm Friday night ?

No problem, RorrKonn, we can do this by 11:59PM, no sweat.
Follow me, I wanna show you something ...

How about ya tell me what's going on here, pumeco?
It's my secret Blender-based CGI company in the making!

Yeah but ya have like 100 nodes here, must be big on licence costs.
It's Blender, not Max or Maya, it cost nothing, just relax and trust me on this.

But what about ya Spielberg and ya Lucas?
Ask me that question again when Blender is Industry Standard.

But ya got to learn Blender first, pumeco.
Sorted, I was doing that while you were busy spending thousands on Max!

BTW, I think I just spotted the first hint of a potential EcoSystem in Blender:
[**Click for cool stuff!

**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XZGulDxz9o)

nice demo reel but

"But ya got to learn Blender first, pumeco.
Sorted, I was doing that while you were busy spending thousands on Max! "

takes a couple of mins to spend on max at least a year or so to learn blender :-(

ps you can do fake an ecosystem with dupliverts and weight painting (maybe not as easy as vue)

@Nyghtfall have fun, long time since I tried the demo but as I remember Vue is great

I was exactly the same with the early versions of Blender, but since they updated the interface, it's no harder to take in than Cinema4D or LightWave3D.  I think the problem is that when people see something cool done in Blender, they try to follow a tutorial for it and get confused.  They don't realise that the confusion probably comes from them not learning the Basics of the Blender interface first.

It's like the saying goes, "Don't try to run before you can walk".

if you can drive a chevy then ya can drive a ford.

so if you know how C4D works then you allready know how to use
TS ,Blender ,LW ,Autodesk ,etc etc

if you know gimp then ya know adobe ,corel.

poser,daz

zbush ,mudbox

Quote - I was exactly the same with the early versions of Blender, but since they updated the interface, it's no harder to take in than Cinema4D or LightWave3D.  I think the problem is that when people see something cool done in Blender, they try to follow a tutorial for it and get confused.  They don't realise that the confusion probably comes from them not learning the Basics of the Blender interface first.
It's like the saying goes, "Don't try to run before you can walk".

Quote - you can drive a chevy then ya can drive a ford. so if you know how C4D works then you allready know how to use
TS ,Blender ,LW ,Autodesk ,etc etc

if you know gimp then ya know adobe ,corel.

poser,daz

zbush ,mudbox

I somewhat disagree with you 2 on this one..... When I started modeling I started out years ago with Cinema4D v5. I had used Poser and Bryce already before that. I had no problem at all with C4D's interface at all, had nothing to learn really, it's logic, it's build like about any windows application. Switched to TrueSpace & GameSpace later, again even though their interface is different somewhat, there still was no learning curve at all. From then I've used Animation Master, 3D Studio Max, Lightwave, Hexagon, DS, Amorphium, Amapi, Vue, 3DCoat and more. Picking them up was easily, the UI's are quite similar, at least you find everything where you expect it to be and even the workflow is quite similar. Yes, you have to learn their specific tools, but no need to completely relearn the UI and most tools are familiar, work as you expect them to work, as you've learned in others.

That is simply not the case with Blender, not back then and still not now. Blender first of all is way too overwhelming. For blender you need to sit down and learn the interface, that takes time. You have to figure out where everything is. Secondly, a lot of things work differently in Blender. You cannot just pick it up, the tools work in a different way. Blender takes time to learn, a lot more time then other applications I've used.

With Blender you have to learn twice, with about every other 3D application, you can mosltly skip the whole learning the interface part and dive right into it learning other stuff, but even most of that doesn't take ages.

Of course, once you've gone through the process of learning Blender, everything gets familiar to you, but I still think that after all these years Blender is overcomplicated and unlogic. You know what? I'm not the only one, it's still the general complaint about Blender and rightfully so. Blender is harder to take in then most other 3D applications.

Again this has nothing to with how good or bad Blender is, it is an excellent modeling application that could have been a lot more popular if it would have an easier learning curve.

Back on topic..... Vue has a learning curve as well, but again, I didn't have any problems with the interface coming from Poser or other 3D applications. I, as most, simply had learn the whole basics of landscaping and using Vue specific tools like ecosystems, editing plants and constructing atmospheres.

Aeilkema, lots of people don't agree with what Blender users say, because they don't understand Blender.

Some might say Blender doesn't fit into an "Autodesk" pipeline.

Those people don't understand that Blender will never need to fit into Autodesk's pipeline.  If there is any conforming to be done, it will be Autodesk that will have to cater to the open standards of Blender, not the other way around.

***Some might wonder what the famous directors would want you to use.

***Those people miss the point that Blender gives them the tools to do for themselves exactly what these famous directors are doing.  The difference being that Blender won't cost them for the priviledge.

Full-on Blender users couldn't care less about "Autodesk" or the demands of industry professionals.  Blender is an industry in it's own right, it exists as part of the freedom in software movement.  The people that use and develop it have absolutely no interest in hidden code or being charged to use something they have no control over.  I suppose you could say that learning Blender takes the right attitude as well as the will to learn.

Anyway, someone will have to take the first step back in this discussion or it will continue to loop.  I'm making no further comments on Blender in this thread.  I love talking about it but it's going to land us in trouble if it doesn't stop, and I'm convinced Shane has a very close eye on me right now.

Back on topic, I'd like to see how many Vickies have been pinned to a tree by Nygtfall now that he's got all those trees to play with :woot:

Yeah, like that Nygtfall dude has the right idea, wouldn't mind doing that to a few Vickies myself!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

That's not what I'm saying at all, I don't care what Autodesk or any company has for a pipeline, I'm just talking about common UI here. Every windows user is used to doing things in a certain way.

I can pick up Corel Paint, Paintshop Pro, Photoshop, Serif Photo plus, Gimp and so on. Once I understand the UI and basic tools of one, I pretty much can move from one to the other. Sure some things are different, but the general idea is about the same. That has nothing to do with let's sat Adobe's pipeline, some of the others have been around long before Adobe discovered Windows :) They just use a common Windows UI and set up their tools in a logic way, making moving from one to the other quite easy. You don't have to re-learn everything, you can use gained knowledge in each of them. That's the power of Windows, if it is used right.

I hope this makes more clear what I'm getting at. In the 3D world, so to speak, Blender is one of the few odd ones out. It has chosen to follow a very particular route, instead of using common Window UI and common 3D basic tools. Blender has to do everything in it's own particular way, for some reason I never understood.

If anyone having used 3D before decided to pick up Blender, that person has to re-learn everything. The UI, the basic tools and the advanced tools, IMO that is a bad thing, that is Blenders greatest weakness. It's also a huge waste of time, having te re-learn everything you already know, because Blender insists on doing it all it's own way.

Blenders song will always be..... I DID IT MY WAY AND BECAUSE OF THAT I SCARED NUMEROUS POTENTIAL USERS AWAY :)

I guess I've said enough about this topic by now, enough Blender, I made my point :)

I messed my email up ,dang.

anyways some like blondes,reds or brunets.I just love all girls.

some companies like Pixar ,I.L.M have there own in housed programers & CGI software.

I so want to play with there software.I just like playing with all the software.

& wouldn't it be cool to go hey clyde I need a plug that builds me a city scape in 5 minutes.

You two are doing your best to make me talk Blender again, but I'm not going to :biggrin:

I'll let someone else do the talking this time:
Click here for my answer to aeilkema
Click here for my answer to RorrKonn

Gotta rush, Roxie just demanded a Cheeseburger!

Let it go

I've no investment to let go, RorrKonn, you have.

yep :)

Well I'm glad someone finally gets it!

I prefer rendering in poser, but there are some scenes eg crowd scenes or nature scenes where you need vue.  Sometimes I render a spherical HDRI in vue and map it to the BB envirsphere in poser.

Love esther

I'm $160 away from Vue 2014 Complete.  I'll be signing up for their monthly upgrade subscription plan as well.

What's the latest version of SkinVue?

I really wouldn't know.

I think I found out, at Cornucopia3D.  SkinVue Elite, and there's an upgrade for compatibility with Genesis 2.

Do you need to be a student to use the PLE Version?

Was just going to give it a try myself but notice there's two versions; the Trial Version lasts 30 Days, but the PLE never expires.

Thing is, is the PLE version a student only thing?
Also, is PLE just a plugin for other host apps or is it an actual stand alone product?

I'm not actually interested in xStream or Infinite, but if they work the same as Complete apart from the hosting abilities, I was thinking maybe the PLE would be a good way for me to try Complete without a time limit.  I don't get why they do a PLE for xStream and Infinite but not the others!

PLE is for everyone to use. There are a few restrictions. It has a rendering size limit and a logo on it. You can save your work with it, but you cannot open it in any other version then PLE. There may be a few other restrictions when it comes to exporting, but I don't recall them. Oh, just remembered another one, it's for personal use only.

PLE is the full applications in other words Infinite with a couple of restrictions. I don't know if there's a xStream PLE as well.

The reason they do Infinite as PLE is to suck you in :) As a hobby user, a lot of people don't need Infinite at all, but they still buy it after using PLE. It has a slightly different UI for a number of functions that simply work better then the Artists versions. It of course offers a number of features that the Artist versions lack. I tried the PL version first and also the 30 day trial of Studio (the version I wanted to get). I had a hard time going from PLE to the Studio trial, you right away miss certain features and notice that PLE has a better setup then the Artists versions. To this day, I still miss a number of features.

That is why I don't recommend using the PLE when you can only afford an Artists version. Pick the 30 day trial of the version you can afford, that is really the best route to go. If you can't decide in 30 days if you want or don't want Vue, then you don't need Vue at all. If I recall correctly, when the 30 days trial expires, you get special offer, a discount on the Artist version you have been using the trial version for. But don't hold me to that one, but I do think it's the case.

So short answer.... no, PLE doesn't work exactly the same as the Artist versions, there are noticable differences. Infinite is definitely more thought out and expanded then the Artists versions are.

Thanks for that, aeilkema!

I didn't realise there was other differences, I thought the only differences would be down to making the hosting features work, that sort of thing.  I wouldn't be able to buy it, not for a long time, and I'm not interested in the hosing features so that's why I though using the PLE would be a good way to maybe get into it at my own pace, then if I like it, I'd buy Complete further down the line.

No point me doing that if it's going to cut out in 30 days, so it's a shame PLE doesn't work like Complete.

I'll take a look at a few YouTube videos before I download anything, see if I can pick-up on what the main defferences are between Complete and xStream.  I always thought they were basically identical to Complete but with the ability to be hosted in another 3D package!

Anyway, thanks for the info, you might have saved me making space on my drive!

I'm not a 100% clear on all the versions myself. xStream is indeed for hosting in other applications, but Infinite isn't, but I'm not sure if you can use xStream stand-alone as you can with Infinite. Infinite is the top stand-alone version of Vue and PLE is based on Infinite. While Infinite and Complete share most features, Infinite has some extra and works a bit differently though. I do think that xStream is the same as Infinite with the whole working inside another applications difference.

I never realized there was a difference between the Artist version and the pro-Versions, besided the obvious lack of features in Infinite. After playing with PLE and then getting Studio, I realized there was more going on then just some missing features. When following tutorials it even gets more obviuous. The tutor will do certain things in his UI and then you suddendly realize you can't do that at all, you need to find a different way of doing it. It's not a major issues, but the differences are there.

Especially when starting to use TPF plants & trees the difference gets real obvious. While it is easy to change things like season and so on in Vue Infinite, that is a lot less pleasant to do in the Artist versions. The Infinite UI is perfect for this, but the Artist version UI is horrible. Not having TPF myself, it is one of the main reasons I don't buy TPF plants for Vue. While you can use them fine in Vue without TPF, I do find it quite akward to edit them in Vue Complete. That aside from all the other problems there are with TPF plants.

Under the hood there's a lot more difference between PLE and the Artist versions then one would think.

I'd say whenever you're closer to getting Vue then you are now, download the demo of the version you think of getting. Or get PLE now, but keep in mind you're going to miss features and not everything UI-wise is done the same later on.