Renderosity is also currently looking for help in the forums. You can apply if you like. Who knows, maybe you can do a better job than anybody.

http://www.zetaboards.com/ has to be this one.
with the advertisement of NO STRESS.:lol::glare:

oxymoron ,no stress forum

EClark1894 :Your drafted as a Mod ,Congrats :huh:

I've been following this thread, but have not posted until now :)

What I don't understand is that members feel the need to sit on the moderator throne. To many cry havoc right away when someone is making a comment they don't like. It's one of the reasons I stopped posted regulary here. Let the mods do their job and let us members discuss, even debate, converse, share thoughts and so on, without someone right away shouting things like "oh this thread will be locked soon"

Let a mod decide who's a troll and who isn't, let them do their jobs. Let them lock threads that may get out of hand or shouldn't be there. Let them lock a topic we've seen over and over again. You may not agree with the way they do their job..... fine, that's the time to use sitemail and let them know :)

There is one problem I've seen over the years here, that has never been dealt with and I think pumeco has pointed it out quite rightly. There are a number of members that constantly put out bait. They come in a thread, often not adding to the discussion at all, but just making a comment which offend others or are out of place. The replies to it often gets dealt with, but those putting out the bait seem to run free time after time. I'm getting the impression that the baiting is done on purpose, but I could be completely wrong. All I know is that after the bait has been put out, a thread often derails quite quickly.

For what it's worth though...... if you've been around long enough, you know the forums are quite tame these days. It was a lot different a few years back.

@All
Thanks for the replies.  So I take it that as no one was able to explain why any member should have to put up with that, it was fair of me to assume that people will continue not to put up with that no matter what is changed.

@Clarkie
You're right, it doesn't give anyone the right to disrupt anything, but my point it these things do cause people to disrupt.

@RorrKonn
Cool vid, but I look at the way it's all been going and can't help but recall the title and band name of This One.  That is one accurate representation of the way things are in the world, a great way to symbolise a situation with cover art.

@Moriador
I have no problem with Shane either, not 90% of the time, but that other 10% is in a state of misunderstanding as has been made clear in his post.

@Shane
People here aren't aware of it, but we both know I have taken these issues to the mod over these things (that mod being you).  Three times in total I've asked why something has been removed and/or not been put back after an explanation or rethink.  I get no reponse to my effort for doing that, nothing.

So even when I behave as expected, nothing comes of it.  Look at it from the member point of view and ask yourself, what does it look like to them if you do these things, and then when they contact you, you ignore it?

If you truly have no issue with me and expect some respect, then be prepared to repsect what this member is telling you.  Despite how you read it, my reply to Khai could not have been in better humour, in fact it was worded to lighten the atmosphere, to cause a giggle.

If you cannot respect what I just told you and take that as the truth, then you have no respect and therefore you have none in return.  I've just told you, openly, in public, that the post was intended to give a lighter atmosphere to what was really a depressing thread.  I don't want you to remove Khai's post, I'm perfectly happy for it to remain because he posted what he wanted to say.

What I want is for you to trust me and put back my reply to it, and to understand that when people make the sort of comment Khai made, it's pretty obvious they're going to get a reply to it.  My reply was perfectly acceptable by any standards, others here might not have replied to such a comment with humour, they could have gotten nasty about it.

I did the opposite yet it still got removed, that's just not on.

**
@aeilkema**
I agree, and very well said

Quote - EClark1894 :Your drafted as a Mod ,Congrats :huh:

No thanks.

@Clarkie
In my opinion there's only two people on this forum who have shown themselves to be suitable mod material.

Nanette Tredoux:
Because despite the fact I've only ever spoken to her on one occasion, I cannot help but be taken back at how level-headed, calm, and sensible she is.  I've never seen her dictate, argue, start a fight, side with anyone, nothing like that.  She has a neutral nature about her, cool at all times.

People like that deserve respect, and I think the respect she shows others is perfect grounds to ensure those people would respect her as a moderator in return.  If people respect the moderator, the result is a calm forum.

aeilkema:
Again, good moderator material but for different reasons.  In this case it's because he's the only person so far that has been man enough to agree with me and to hell with whether people like to be seen to do that (as if siding with pumeco is siding with the devil).  He's the only one here who has recognised that what I'm pointing out needs to be taken care of, and just as importantly, he was prepared to stick his head out and agree with me.

Wow!

With that sort of attitude, the one thing you can be sure of is that issues like the one I have, would not exist in the first place.  He recognises that you can't go around removing stuff in a fashion that is unfair and expect the forum to remain calm.  He understands that members such as myself, who want to behave and contribute, cannot do so when baiting is allowed to run riot, but the replies to them are removed.

Pumeco: We do not normally discuss issues between staff and specific forum members openly in the forum. It's innapropriate and not the concern of anyone else in the community. I made an exception with my previous post as a courtesy to your request for an open explanation. In retrospect I probably should not have done so. I'm happy to discuss the issue further with you in PM to help you understand how my decisions are made, but this is as far as it's going to go here in open discussion. I think you've made it clear enough for everyone reading that you don't agree with certain aspects of my moderating style. I respect that and I do take into consideration the various critiques that different people spice their posts with. I know that not everyone likes me or is going to agree with the way I handle things. That's fair and to be expected. If anyone has issue with my moderating style then you're welcome to contact Kimberly or Tina if you're not satisfied with the explanations I've given you. Anyone is welcome to PM me whenever you feel like you have something you want to say or discuss or even suggest. 

How about we get back to the original subject and stop making everything so personal. My delete button still works very well. 

~Shane

Quote - How about we get back to the original subject and stop making everything so personal. My delete button still works very well.

I can't seem to find my delete button though :biggrin: Sorry, couldn't resist that, sometimes I have no control over what I post..... Back on topic! At times I read over my posts and notice I perhaps should have worded things a bit differently and I run into a huge problem..... the edit time is quite short on Rendo. May be others feel the same way.

Pumeco, Aeilkema

Sure people post things that are inflammatory. Yes. They do.

In real life, people say inflammatory things, too. In real life, they get away with it. Life, in case it hasn't yet become obvious, isn't perfectly fair.

Kindergarten teachers recognize that children have trouble coping with this fact of life. Most grow up and learn that as adults, the onus is upon them as mature human beings to choose their battles wisely and not fly off the handle every time someone says something they don't like.

We have agency. We have choices. If someone says something that you believe is baiting you, you have the ability not to respond. And in a group of adults who are discussing their opposing opinions, it's EXPECTED that we won't take offense and go on a long series of rants in response. Because retaliation is childish.

[self edited]

Most of us will make mistakes at some point or other. God knows I have. But I try very hard not to make a HABIT of it.

[self edited]

I've written about thirty posts in reply to things that were said in this thread and deleted almost almost all of them before hitting 'post reply'.

I'm sick of doing that. But, believe me, if I were to post the things that I'm thinking, I'd be thrown out of this forum immediately, and rightly so.

The most effective form of moderation among adults is self-moderation -- which is why after not self-moderating this post, I may find it better just to leave the forums for a year or so again.

Quote - I've written about thirty posts in reply to things that were said in this thread and deleted almost almost all of them before hitting 'post reply'.

I'm sick of doing that. But, believe me, if I were to post the things that I'm thinking, I'd be thrown out of this forum immediately, and rightly so.

I do think this counts for all of us :)

Quote - > Quote - I've written about thirty posts in reply to things that were said in this thread and deleted almost almost all of them before hitting 'post reply'.

I'm sick of doing that. But, believe me, if I were to post the things that I'm thinking, I'd be thrown out of this forum immediately, and rightly so.

I do think this counts for all of us :)

Well, I'm sure it counts for you. :) As far as I remember, you've never said anything that I'd have a problem with.

I'm sure there are others who think differently about that :)

@Shane
The admin here already know how I feel, and I already did contact you and nothing came of it.  I had hoped that mentioning the problem to both you and the admin would have at least resulted in the post being put back by now.  It hasn't been so I assume that's because they are leaving it up to you to decide.

And for what it's worth, I don't hate or dislike you.  I agree with your take on a lot of things.  As "one of the lads" on the forum you're fine, but you have the wrong demeanor for a mod (I reckon so anyway).  That's not meant to get at you personally, it's just an observation*.

*So anyway, if I contact you by PM, are you going to put my totally harmless reply to Khai back?  I already contacted you once so I don't see what difference it would make, but if you want me to contact you again, I will, no problem.

@Moriador
Like I said to Shane, no one has been able to give a reason why any member should be expect to put up with a perfectly harmless post being removed while the bait that caused it, remains.  Even if Shane put the comment back I'm guessing only one or two more people would see it, so that alone should tell you that this is all about the principle of the thing.

I only want it putting back because it should not have been removed in the first place.

I couldn't care less what Khai said, but the point is I've been silenced from telling him I couldn't care less what he said.  If he's allowed to say that to me then surely I'm entitled to reply to it in the manner I replied to it.  I could have gone the nasty route and replied how a troll would have replied.  Instead, I respected the ToS and posted something in good humour instead.

It still got removed and the post that prompted it is still there.

Like I said before, it will either get rectified or Renderosity won't need to ban me, I'll simply stop posting here until they sort things out.  That might sound like a victory to the mod, but actually, all it does is indicate a failure because he was unable to bring himself to accept he was wrong, and put it right.  I'm never going to forgive him for removing it unless he puts it back because there was no reason to remove it.

I'm not in the wrong here, Moriador, so I hope he will rectify it.

Moriador, shame on you, I just logged in specially to see your post and it has gone!
I hope you wasn't being horrible to me :-D

Pumeco, the people who make the rules get to decide what they mean and how they should be enforced.

You're not an admin, therefore you don't get to make that decision, and your opinion is, actually, irrelevant. Repeating it over and over and over and over doesn't change that. 

If you want your opinion to be relevant, you need to become a site admin.

Quote -
Moriador, shame on you, I just logged in specially to see your post and it has gone!
I hope you wasn't being horrible to me :-D

I wasn't being horrible. Not terribly horrible anyway. :)

Pumeco, For some reason, you really, really can't seem to let this go. If you want to say it's the principle of the thing then fine. I'll go along with that. But frankly, I'm sick of reading about it.

So, I'm asking you to stop posting about this ... problem in this thread, and if you honestly feel that much violated about it, start your own thread where you and anyone who wishes to continue on with it can discuss this topic ad nauseum. Who knows, maybe RorrKonn will even stop in and derail your thread by posting about something completely off topic from what your discussing.

Do you know I have also replied more than once to this but always thought better of it before posting.  Deep breath, count to 100 and press the ignore button.

It appears this thread has become an example of what it's trying to stop.

and here's what I was pointing out in action. this could and should go to PM. and yet, the rest of us have to put up with it...

I hate being right on stuff like this.

Trolling traits? Khai? Nah, for those of us who know him, that's just how he is. Blunt and honest, pulls no punches. He doesn't do it for attention, he only gets that way to annoy alledged trolls.

Any other time, he's not too bad to talk to.

Quote - It appears this thread has become an example of what it's trying to stop.

 

Ironic, isn't it? The thing is, I LIKE Pumeco, normally. Never had a bad word with him. To that point I've refrained from saying or doing anything until this point. Even asked him to start his own thread where he can rant and rave all he wants. Yet he seems bound and determined to disrupt other threads. Unfortunately, he doesn't respect me enough to stop derailing my thread.

Now I'm going to ask that everyone return to the original discussion and nature/spirit of this thread. 

No more personal attacks or critiques. I think for the most part everyone has remained civil and brought up some good points that we would do well to consider. 

Keep it clean and respectful to each other please.

~Shane 

Well I suppose if nothing else the thread has proved the 'take it to site mail' idea has limitations, now all we have to see is if it does work for people who are normally peaceful but have had a bad day or briefly see red.

Quote - Trolling traits? Khai? Nah, for those of us who know him, that's just how he is. Blunt and honest, pulls no punches. He doesn't do it for attention, he only gets that way to annoy alledged trolls.

Any other time, he's not too bad to talk to.

Unfortunately, it is too often up to...(ahem)...these types...who is alleged and who is not...but by what authority?  And "Those of us who know him" well, there are all kinds of behaviors that are justified simpy because someone "knows them" and "if you only knew them"  Oh, okay, that excuses everything.

I agree with the (presumably) banned or suspended chap that it is wrong to sanction "These types" simply because "If you only knew them..." that is called a "Good 'ole boy" network and it is a highway to abuse.

Quote - and here's what I was pointing out in action. this could and should go to PM. and yet, the rest of us have to put up with it...

I hate being right on stuff like this.

We'll where trying anything and every thing we can think of.
Can't say where not trying.

but anyways since ya so good at being right .
What the H... is the right answer ?

Quote - Pumeco, For some reason, you really, really can't seem to let this go. If you want to say it's the principle of the thing then fine. I'll go along with that. But frankly, I'm sick of reading about it.

So, I'm asking you to stop posting about this ... problem in this thread, and if you honestly feel that much violated about it, start your own thread where you and anyone who wishes to continue on with it can discuss this topic ad nauseum. Who knows, maybe RorrKonn will even stop in and derail your thread by posting about something completely off topic from what your discussing.

CGI ,CGI ,CGI All I want to talk about on a CGI Forum is CGI.
But it's bloody difucult to do this when every " insert a hole lot of cussing " one of my threads get locked.

I'm not blaming any of this on any Mod.
I know you have a job to do.
But I want the posters responsable for getting all my threads locked gone.

Quote - Who knows, maybe RorrKonn will even stop in and derail your thread by posting about something completely off topic from what your discussing.

I want to see that happening. A perfectly decent and highly technical discussion about CGI -- derailing a venting thread. It would be a thing of beauty! :)

Back to the topic at hand.

I do have a question: Can people you've ignored actually sitemail you? Because if they can't, they can't take it to sitemail. On the other hand, if they're being ignored by someone, that person won't read his/her replies in the forum either.

If only being close in the forums could make us a community of artists, but this is truly a problem that does not make an easy situation to diffuse or calm, which unfortunately is why theads get locked.  

There are times that I have found my statements on forum sites to seem rude, or aggressive in tone when in all honesty that is not at all how I wanted it presented. If what I am saying warrants a "Sitemail" response I would rather someone tell me before things get out of hand.  Sometimes I don't realize how my words can be misrepresented.

Nobody can see the person behind the posts, we lose that visual cue that we need to understand whether someone means aggression or not.  Giving a little benefit of the doubt before we call a member a problem is a must if this idea goes to fruition.

:)

It is a good idea.

Putting your point across in the manner that you intended is always difficult, I struggle and English is my first and only language (unless you include profanity) which is not the case for many people here.  It becomes more difficult where the people involved are passionate over something.  I tend to be passionate about fair play and I dislike anyone being taken advantage of or mislead.  In instances like this I think the taking it to site mail campaign may well work.

Unfortunately this forum suffers from a problem that has become common with the Internet in general and that is people think they can say what they like without a recourse or resposibilty.  For some it provides a means to be rude, childish, bulling and always right and all from the comfort of their home.  I doubt the campaign will have any impact on these people, sad but a fact of life.

eclark, don't let them rile you up.  just ignore them like the rest of us do.  it's guaranteed stress-free.

I think Direwraith and Hornet make very good points. It's very, very easy for your words to be misunderstood. And I have, like Direwraith, had the experience of looking at my own words and thinking, "Oh, my. That does sound aggressive."

Even if we were all English Lit PhD students, we'd probably still argue over meaning and semantics. 

I think the best solution is to adopt a more humble approach if your words are misconstrued, and just apologize. Amazing how many conflicts between reasonable people can be put to rest this way.

Not with the extremely lame "I'm sorry if you misunderstood," (putting the blame on the other person for failing to get your meaning) but rather, "It wasn't my intent to offend you. But I can see how you could read it that way. I'm sorry that I didn't make myself clear enough," which takes responsibility for the error in communication.

Edit: 99 times out of a 100 (in my experience), an apology like that provokes the other person to apologize as well for jumping to conclusions or overreacting or whatever.

Now, if I can just remember to do this myself! (I do try!)

I found it; It must be the global warming. :-)

TOS add on :

Cold shower required before posting to cool the externals.
Complemented with a 220 gr icecream to cool the internals..

Quote -  

I think the best solution is to adopt a more humble approach if your words are misconstrued, and just apologize. Amazing how many conflicts between reasonable people can be put to rest this way.

Not with the extremely lame "I'm sorry if you misunderstood," (putting the blame on the other person for failing to get your meaning) but rather, "It wasn't my intent to offend you. But I can see how you could read it that way. I'm sorry that I didn't make myself clear enough," which takes responsibility for the error in communication.

 

I agree with that 100%.  I was a technical trainer for around 10 years, although I regarded myself as a facilitator, and I always found the most productive response to to a student if they did not understand something was "Sorry I clearly did not explain that very well".  Often I would then try and understand more about the person such as familes and hobbies and try to use that information to make an analogy that would explain the subject better.  Which is why I preferred the term facilitator, my job was to find the correct words and examples for the student to understand,  if they did not understand I had failed.

Of course that is so much easier in person which makes the above suggestion even more important on a forum where facial expressions and body language is mossing.