Conforming cloths
Ya get a lot of dials but no idea what they do.
So ya half to waist time experimenting with them all to see what they do.
Then ya go threw it all again with another out fit.

Dynamic cloths are a lot easier to use and lay a lot better ,
but yet conforming cloths rule.why ?

Because people want's it to be easy. So easy rules over better. ;)

I've completely converted to using only dynamic clothing, the results are amazing and I can use the same clothing on any figure I want with some minor tweaking. Even if the results are not perfect, the morhping tool fixes everything.

Conforming clothes are much easier, the cloth simulation takes time and produces unusable results from time to time. If the cloth simulator would be easier to use and faster (see MagnificientDesigner for example), people would use it more. But having to calculate a scene for half an hour just to see that the cloth went to the body and went boom makes people stick to what they know.

If you know what you are doing, dynamic is better. But it has a learning curve, and many don't want to go that road.

I once tried to use dynamic clothes for a prison scene.  so I set up lots of sims then tried to import them all into one scene but the program got mixed up with all the same named vicikes.  Unfortunately.

everytime I use dynamic something always seems to use up all my time.  crowd scenes are problematic.

But yes, the simulated clothing looks the best.

Love esther

I am going to be honest I have never used dynamic clothing. I have only had Poser for a few months and for the past several years I used Diaz so I am more familiar with those dials. But I want to try dynamics once I figure out how.

IMHO Conforming cloth is still the most often made clothing becasue DAZ couldn't use dynamics till reciently without extra cost and hardship in varity. Poser users have been tied at the hip with DAZ until reciently. That is one of the reasons everyone wants/wanted Genesis to run in Poser.

Dynamic cloth is actually quite easy to use once you understand a few simple things. As for it being slow to use, that is an incorrect assumption probably based on an older version of Poser. The dynamics in PP2014 are extreamly fast on my modest 8 year old computer.

I've noticed that there is a heck of a lot of dynamic clothing appearing at DAZ for use in Studio. Conforming cloth is exactly what it claims to be. It is easy for the end users who are more artist that technician. Dynamic cloth seems to be more effort than it's worth is what everyone is told, and like sheep; most users carry on grazing in their field without looking to see what lies farther out unless they are lead there. Folks syaing dynamic cloth is hard, time consumming, inaccurate in result and crashes often are shepherds keeping the flock grazing over and over again in the same field. No new grass to experience.

I animate. Dynamics produce great results and conforming not so much. Many here do still renders. They pose and render quite happily with their conforming cloth. For a pixie sitting on a rock staring vacantly into space this is fine. What most users don't understand is that semi naked chick swinging the sword is just that. Moving. When you take a photograph you are freezing a moment of movement. That runway model you are trying to reproduce in a still pose was moving when the referance photo you are using was taken. 

That alone is one of the most revelant things a person needs to understand. Movement. Something conforming cloth cannot do. Stop doing all your work on Frame 1. Instead start doing it on frame 30. Do as you have always done up till now. Your still renders will be no differant than before.  After you get used to that back up a few frames and change the pose slightly and allow Poser to calculate the animation through to your final pose. Do the same thing again with Dynamic cloth and you will see why it is superiour.

That is also why DAZ is making dynamics easier for Studio users. Modern video games and sfx use dymanics. Our machines and tech easily allow us to as well. DAZ has clued into that. We knew it all along but were scared away from it by missinformation. Not a purposed missinformation but a misguided one.

It's not a simple one click operation to do a render any more. We mess around with lights, materials, morphs, render settings. Why not just add a few more clicks to do dynamic calculations. Poser has a lot of capabilites for animation and our renders are but a moment frozen in time. Those tools are there to be used by all Poser artists no matter what your final render type may be and dynamic cloth is one of those tools.

As long as vendors feel that we only want to use one or two figures different figures, in simple static poses; we will will not break away from conforming cloth. It is usually pretty easy to rig and poke through doesn't happen in the poses the vendor tries. Dynamic doesn't need rigging and poke through sledom happens except in extreams.

You would think this a no brainer for merchants. Make the cloth and don't worry that you need to put in morphs for every possible itteration of the target figure. Your life will be easier. But; you only get to sell your item once. It can then be dynamically fit to most any other figure. There goes the income stream. You cannot keep selling the same item over and over again, rigged, and morph included; for a different figure.

I make a lot of simple cloth for my usage. All of it dynamic. It can be refit for any figure in a few seconds and always flows correctly. I am sad to say that in all the years Wardrobe Wizard has been in Poser I haven't used it or bought any of the licences. This is not a reflection on PhilC. The man is brilliant and I have learned a great deal from him over the years.

This missive is just my opinion, but then; you ask for opinions.

With the agravating conforming dials and all .
Ya don't think in the long run there just making it harder on them selfs ?

Dynamic cloths  easy  Conforming clothes not to  easy  i  use  easy not a bunch of  dial  spinning and  conform to  with  magnets for  cloths  to  work

Quote - With the agravating conforming dials and all .
Ya don't think in the long run there just making it harder on them selfs ?

No.

I am going to make a guess that the VAST majority of Poser users have either never entered the cloth room, or did so once... got apoplexy, and never returned. The cloth room is a far more difficult learning curve than is load...conform...fix poke-thru, especially now with the auto conforming options in Poser 10.

I am, persopnally, a big advocte of dynamic clothing because of the way it drapes. That said, I still use a great deal of conforming clothing. Between the auto-conform help and the ability to use the tighten function in the morph brush, I don't see where conforming clothing takes any time at all. If the auto conform doesn't work, that just means you need to push the figure morphs into the clothing, and that takes no time at all to speak of.

Yes, dynamic clothing looks more realistic.

Yes, conforming clothing is light years easier to use unless you make it hard by insisting on doing all of the fine adjustments yourself.

Dynamic clothes produce better results ... Sometimes. But they give up that with the fact that they are difficult to use, really difficult to use if you want more than one item in a scene and often produce useless piles of mesh.

Conforming aren't as good but they are more reliable and don't take as much time. They can aldo be used in multiple programs.

Conforming clothing rules for the same reasons that MAT Poses still exist: people are trying to make their products compatible with Poser 4 or are still making products with Poser 4.

I have mixed feelings on dynamics versus conforming. As a content maker, I actually do love to do dynamic clothing. In fact sometimes I can make them so fast, I have to slow down. Conforming takes time. And I think I know now why V4 has so many skimpy clothes.

But as a content user, and especially as a person who does a graphic novel, it's much easier to use conforming clothes. Particularly if you have a scene full of people.

Of course, something else I've done in the past is to use the cloth Room to create natural drape morphs for clothing when people are sitting or standing. You can save those dynamics to the library.

Well I am running Poser Pro 2014 and my visits to the cloth room are few and far between.  I am not trying to make it compatible with Poser 4 or any other earlier version.  About 95% of my Poser clothes are conforming and I have a great number.  I only render stills so I have no need for movement.

I can use the cloth room to a degree but only really use it if I want to put a sheet over a loving couple or fly a flag or two.  It may be more realistic but when if you go down that route you really want that satin dress to look as though it is made of satin and that means playing with the cloth attributes which is as bad, if not worse than dial spinning.

As to spinning dial with conforming clothes, well I only ever did that to prevent poke-through and these days I tend to use the morph brush and ignore the dials.  This allows me to push, pull, loosen, thighten and sag clothing without the danger it will finish up as a pool at my figures feet.

"I animate. Dynamics produce great results and conforming not so much. Many here do still renders. They pose and render quite happily with their conforming cloth. For a pixie sitting on a rock staring vacantly into space this is fine."

This ^^

The great majority of poser users only render stills and the Entire SM marketing Approach is targeted at that majority.

With that in mind there is no need for Merchants to largely embrace Dynamic Cloth as it would require people to expose themselves to unfamiliar terms like " keyframe"

And some really good merchants at Daz actually model in "drape& fold" morphs into conforming clothing but again with the expectation that it will only be use for ONE frame.

I dont see what is at Issue here when you consider that alot of the dynamic cloth is naturally mult-ifigure compatible anyway
and modeling your own dynamic cloths in Blender or wings3D etc. is way easier that creating conformers.

Well I actually think Blender is easier than Poser.
I know That puts me not in the majority.

Maybe if Poser dynamics room had all the moderen tools
Might change some Artist minds.

Seems like Poser and most of all DAZ follow the crowd with their apps also.
Poser hasn't seem to upgrade Dynamics cloths or hair much since Poser 5
Last version I had before 14.

I know DAZ was making there meshes & DAZ Studio more like main app's.
Then when the Poser crowd didn't like it .DSON took over.

I know DAZ Poser is all about easy,fast for the customers.
but seems like the customers make it harder on them selfs then it has to be
cause they've never been tault a better way.

and all the unnecessary steps you half to go threw making content ,
It's easier to make every thing from a cude in zBrush character and all.
Then it is to put one conforming outfit on a Poser character.
and from 5 to 14 no one thought to fix this ?

Anyways there's a universe of CGI out there.
With a lot of diffrent ways of doing something.
Maybe smithmicro might like to look around.
Get some new ideas.

Well, Blender is definitely faster. I've only used it once or twice though. I can't quite get the hang of the dynamics. It's actually easier for me to export my cloth to the Poser Cloth room to get a natural drape then import it back into Blender.

Couple questions, but first I do use dynamic at times and enjoy the challenges, like watching the clothes make the results, and do take my time cause I want great results for a render.  Using Poser9 though, it does take quite a bit of time if you're doing 20 or more frames, especually using my 32 bit computer, so Pro 2014 just may be faster at it, a lot of people still don't have Pro 2014 so you can't really use that excuse.  Static clothing is largely produced cause it's compatible to both Poser and Daz Studio, dynamic clothes for DS or Poser are not compatible to the other programs, thus static clothes sell more... more users means more sales.  I admit though I do wish there were more dynamic clothes on the market, there are times when I see a static clothes and want to drape it in certain ways, still don't know how to use Poser's magnets to get different results.

1st question, where is this "morph brush" some speak of?  Does Poser9 have it?  It would be interesting to learn.

2nd question, for EClark, what do you mean when you say "export to clothes room"?  I'm wondering if you can export static clothing to cloth room to drape it?  I know you can export/import as obj, but it's been eons ago and forgot how to do it, so I would like it if someone can refresh my memory on that.

...wolfie

Quote - > Quote - With the agravating conforming dials and all .

Ya don't think in the long run there just making it harder on them selfs ?

No.

I am going to make a guess that the VAST majority of Poser users have either never entered the cloth room, or did so once... got apoplexy, and never returned. The cloth room is a far more difficult learning curve than is load...conform...fix poke-thru, especially now with the auto conforming options in Poser 10.

I am, persopnally, a big advocte of dynamic clothing because of the way it drapes. That said, I still use a great deal of conforming clothing. Between the auto-conform help and the ability to use the tighten function in the morph brush, I don't see where conforming clothing takes any time at all. If the auto conform doesn't work, that just means you need to push the figure morphs into the clothing, and that takes no time at all to speak of.

Yes, dynamic clothing looks more realistic.

Yes, conforming clothing is light years easier to use unless you make it hard by insisting on doing all of the fine adjustments yourself.

Your guess is right on the spot, yep, i once entered the cloth room and was like lol wut? ... i only use conforming clothing.

I use dynamic clothing frequently and would prefer to use it all the time. BUT, dynamic cloth props lack seams, hems, piping, buttons, pockets and other features that make clothing look realistic. It's fine for a nightgown or a monk's robe, but until we start seeing clothing props that look like actual clothing, conforming clothing will reign supreme.

Having said this, many of my characters are not proportioned in a way that allows conforming cloth props to work very well. Bosomy females, in particular, often look completely ridiculous in conforming clothes. Muscular males have problems with poke-through, too. The newer versions of Poser (I have Poser Pro 2014) are better, but it's always a trade-off with me.

I have a copy of Marvelous Designer, but I've not taken the time to learn it . . .

Quote - I use dynamic clothing frequently and would prefer to use it all the time. BUT, dynamic cloth props lack seams, hems, piping, buttons, pockets and other features that make clothing look realistic. It's fine for a nightgown or a monk's robe, but until we start seeing clothing props that look like actual clothing, conforming clothing will reign supreme.

Dynamic clothing lacks those things because Poser does not see them as part of the overall mesh. They will fall through the material and onto the floor or whereever they stop unless they are constrained, and constraining doesn't always work as it should in the Cloth Room. I'm not sure how Malevolent Designer attaches pockets and buttons so I don't know whether they need to be constrained or not.  I do try to attached pockets and buttons, but other stuff like piping and hems are problematic.

Quote -

Dynamic clothing lacks those things because Poser does not see them as part of the overall mesh. They will fall through the material and onto the floor or whereever they stop unless they are constrained, and constraining doesn't always work as it should in the Cloth Room. Well then, they need to FIX that!

:)

Quote - 1st question, where is this "morph brush" some speak of?  Does Poser9 have it?  It would be interesting to learn.

  I'm not sure if Poser 9 has the Morph tool. It SHOULD, but I can't say for sure. It it does though you should find it among the other Poser tools like the Grouping Tool, The Paint Bucket, etc. > Quote - 2nd question, for EClark, what do you mean when you say "export to clothes room"?  I'm wondering if you can export static clothing to cloth room to drape it?  I know you can export/import as obj, but it's been eons ago and forgot how to do it, so I would like it if someone can refresh my memory on that. ...wolfie

Hi, Wolfie. Been awhile since we last chatted. Yes, you can import an object into Poser and take it into the Cloth Room. You can take a conforming Cloth item into the Cloth room, but if you do make sure it is one complete piece that you are making dynamic. For example, you can make the skirt part of a dress (a good example would be the MFD). Say you want to show V4 sitting in a skirt and you can't get a good enough working of the conforming skirt to look right. Go into the cloth Room, Clotherize the skirt  and have V4 sit down on a chair or even cross her legs. The skirt will follow.

EClark1894 : 

not my mesh and I might be confussing apps
but I swear Poser 5,6.had dynamic pants with pockets ,seems and all ,
thay where tan If anyone knows what I'm talking about.
So I'm betting Pro 14 can have buttons ,pockets ,a knights out fit ,
Anything dynamic thing ya want ,If it's model accordingly.

Quote - EClark1894 : 

not my mesh and I might be confussing apps
but I swear Poser 5,6.had dynamic pants with pockets ,seems and all ,
thay where tan If anyone knows what I'm talking about.
So I'm betting Pro 14 can have buttons ,pockets ,a knights out fit ,
Anything dynamic thing ya want ,If it's model accordingly.

I didn't say it couldn't be done, and I DID say that you can constrain them. Just that if you don't do it right, it can be problematic.

1st question, where is this "morph brush" some speak of?  Does Poser9 have it? 

According to the Smith Micro comparison chart support for pressure sensitive morph brush was intorduced in Poser 9/2012 so the tool should be there in 9.  That said there were major improvements made in Poser 10/2014 and that really changed the brushes usability.  It was this change that made me abandon the morph dials to a large degree.  You can specify the figure, say V4, and the distance that the clothing should be away from the surface of the mesh and then just paint.  That alone is a real benefit but then you have other features like smooth, push, pull and sag (which will let you sag material in a specified direction, though I am not sure you could then call it sag).

I find this more predictable than the cloth room and you can tweak part of an outfit without having to run another simulation on the whole outfit.  The results can be seen in real time and if it is not what you want you can switch the brush to restore.  The cloth room is almost certainly capable of producing a better finish but you really do need to know how to make the room work.  I find the Morph Brush much more intuitive and if all else fails you just clear the morph and start over.

You can find the Morph Brush  in the Morphing Tool (Click the Finger, than Create). The image should help you find it.

Quote - 2nd question, for EClark, what do you mean when you say "export to clothes room"?  I'm wondering if you can export static clothing to cloth room to drape it?  I know you can export/import as obj, but it's been eons ago and forgot how to do it, so I would like it if someone can refresh my memory on that.

You can make a static mesh from a conformer to drape it. Often, you will need to fix things, though.

Dynamic meshes need to be welded to work well, or they will fall apart in the simulation, often they are not welded. Things like buttons need to be put into "Rigid Decorative", things like Pockets or visible Seams should be put in "Soft Decorative". Still, it's try and error for me.

Holy moly, thanks a lot, bantha, I hovered my mouse over those tool icons and found morphing tool, I'm gonna really play with that thing hehe.  And yes, I now remember that when I export the clothe, I check "weld together), gonna go ahead and start playing around :)

...wolfie

"Weld identical vertices" may not be enough. I have several clothes in which the vertices are nearly identical, but not enough for the importer. You may need a modeling app to weld them. Sometimes, marking them as "Soft Decorative" in the Cloth Room works too.

I can use both dynamic and conforming clothing.   Sometimes I will take my conforming clothing and turn them into dynamic clothing.

I think conforming clothing is still being used because it produces acceptable results for rendering images.  I only started using dynamic clothing this year only because the poses that I've started to make require more flexibility than what conforming clothing can offer.

The Cloth Room is much more reliable in recent versions than it has been at times, but it still presents some problems and complications.  Personally, I don't like having to recalculate multiple simulations if I tweak a pose, and I like to do single image renders in frame 1 rather than frame 15 or 30 or 60 with a long lead-in so the cloth can simulate.

Conforming clothing has its drawbacks, too, and both types have their strengths.  One reason I love Poser is that we have both, and can mix them up like we can.  Conforming-dynamic hybrid garments are often my favorites.

Quote - **IMHO Conforming cloth is still the most often made clothing becasue DAZ couldn't use dynamics till reciently without extra cost and hardship in varity.**Poser users have been tied at the hip with DAZ until reciently. That is one of the reasons everyone wants/wanted Genesis to run in Poser. Dynamic cloth is actually quite easy to use once you understand a few simple things.

I've noticed that there is a heck of a lot of dynamic clothing appearing at DAZ for use in Studio.

I animate. Dynamics produce great results and conforming not so much.

That is also why DAZ is making dynamics easier for Studio users.

You would think this a no brainer for merchants.

I make a lot of simple cloth for my usage. All of it dynamic. It can be refit for any figure in a few seconds and always flows correctly.

Can Daz3D use the same dynamic cloth items that Poser can?

I've been told that to make dynamic cloth that can be used in Daz3D you need a $10,000 application called Optitex?

( http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/44301/ )

I've not used Poser since 2006 (I left 3D altogether, only recently got back, and it was cheaper to upgrade my Daz3D so I have. My Poser upgrade is pending and becomes a choice between it and Vue or Carrara) - but i remember taking a simple flat plain and just clicking a setting somewhere to turn into a piece of dynamic cloth.

Is dynamic cloth made in Poser compatible with the new dynamic system in Daz3D?

Because if not - that is a very big reason to stick with conforming clothing if you're a merchant - so you can sell your stuff to the largest number of users.

If the same item sold as Dynamic Cloth for Poser can also work in Daz3D, and vice versa - then yes I would say a lot more items should be produced as Dynamic cloth because I remember how nice it was. Its a big motivator for me to reconsider getting Poser upgraded at some point if I find myself unable to take things from my Poser 7 back into Daz3D.

Unfortunately Poser dynamic cloth doesn't work in DAZ studio, and vice versa. I like that Poser can take an ordinary obj file, and use it as dynamic clothing.

Personally im a dynamic cloth freak :D

Try as much as possible not to use conforming cloth, it simply looks to stiff in my opinion, and very often you get weird poke throughs and bad bending with a lot of poses. And the time it takes to fix those ill rather use in the cloth room, and to be honest i find it a lot faster than fixing conforming cloth. I dont think i spend more than maximum 1 min to set up a cloth simulation with everything. And if you have saved it as a smart object its pratical just pressing 3 buttons and then calculate it.

But when that is said conforming cloth is very good for solid clothing like armors etc. And you can get better details into it, that would most likely kill the cloth simulations. 

So for me it depends on what type of cloth im using, but for all fabrics it will be dynamic cloth without a doubt, looks a lot more alive and can simulated movement of the character and its always fun to see what you end up with in the end as you are never really sure. 

"Then ya go threw "

I stopped reading at that point.

Quote - "Then ya go threw "

I stopped reading at that point.

Keep at it. You'll learn to read better one day and then you can finish.

EClark

Actually, my friend, you need more explanation as to "HOW" to convert that bottom part of the dress to use as a dynamic clothe, what you were saying was more like "this is what I can do" without explaning how to, rather then a short lesson.   I'm not new to Poser anymore, nore dynamic clothing, but when it comes to converting whole or part (like your bottom half of a dress) to dynamic, I'm a bit behind lol.  I just got a python script to convert figure to prop (3DAge & some others'  clothes don't work) but half or part of a clothing piece?  I'm lost here.

...wolfie

Attached Link: Ceremonies and Celebrations Promo Video

It didn't work as a strictly conforming garment.

Actually, Wolfie, I posted this before the lesson... "Yes, you can import an object into Poser and take it into the Cloth Room. You can take a conforming Cloth item into the Cloth room, but if you do make sure it is one complete piece that you are making dynamic. For example, you can make the skirt part of a dress (a good example would be the MFD). Say you want to show V4 sitting in a skirt and you can't get a good enough working of the conforming skirt to look right. Go into the cloth Room, Clotherize the skirt  and have V4 sit down on a chair or even cross her legs. The skirt will follow."

When you're setting up the simulation, Poser will ask you if you wish to clothify an object. In this case you just pick the Hip since that is what you want to clothify. The body part could be named something else like 'skirt" or "dress" so that is what you will select to clothify.*

lol smacks self I really should've known, but then I didn't even know you can clothify any figure parts (hips, dress, chest, etc...).  I know you can't clothify a figure with the body selected though.  This can be interesting though, since a lot of clothes don't come with S4's PBM (breast volume, glute upper depth, etc.).  Then again with Morphing Clothes, that problem's solved, this is just another play field I can play with.  And of course, the skirt is a major issue, especially making it look like she's actually sitting in a chair, with it draping on it.

Thanks guys!

...wolfie

Doing is learning, Wolfie. Why don't you go ahead and try one while you've got my attention so I can help if you need it?

Doing a render right now... ;)

Oops, I forgot to let you know that I uploaded the render... http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/?image_id=2553899 (Kacy's first model party)...

...wolfie

I saw it. It looks spectacular.

Quote - I saw it. It looks spectacular.

Thank you friend!  And thanks again for the help :)

Well worth all the effort