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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Sep 19 4:00 pm)



Subject: PP2014 Game Dev is available for download, sidegrade or upgrade.


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vilters ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 8:34 AM · edited Thu, 19 September 2024 at 4:20 PM

Read all about the new version here:

http://poser.smithmicro.com/gamedev.html

Upgrades and sidegrades from existing versions can be found here:
(Current serial number required)

http://poser.smithmicro.com/upgrade.html

Upgrade from PP2014 to PP2014 Game Dev is 39.99$ (till 08/31/14)

Happy Posering you all.
Best regards,
Tony

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


grichter ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 9:06 AM

Pardon the pun, but let the games begin :thumbupboth:

Not interested in game develpoment. But interested in the reduction of the meshes to load more  figures into a scene....IE Crowds of people that reduces the impact on resources and makes the scene look more real. Main figure (M4 or V4) on a semi crowded subway platform as one example. Billboarding doesn't cut it in my opinion if the accessory figures are closer to the camera. Hopefully the Game Dev solves the problem.

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"


aeilkema ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 9:22 AM

Interesting, but for me a few years to late :(

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk


ssgbryan ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 10:12 AM

Downloading now....



shedofjoy ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 10:30 AM

i wonder if anyone can answer this, it says "Kinect for windows" but can i use my 360 kinect which has its own power supply?

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.


jonnybode ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 10:35 AM

Ahh at last, downloading now (mumbling about extra taxes added but still quite happy).



ruscular3d ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 10:52 AM

I am interested in how they can reduce polygon, and still retain quad instead of triangles?


ghostman ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 12:57 PM

Quote - Ahh at last, downloading now (mumbling about extra taxes added but still quite happy).

 

LOL I did mumbling as well. ;)

"Dream like you'll live forever. Live like you'll die tomorrow."

Join PoserLounge Chat


ruscular3d ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 1:41 PM

I got feedback that it reduces polygon in triangles only


722 ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 2:44 PM

Dang wish i could get this. love to her about peoples experens wirth the new game dev software


seachnasaigh ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 2:55 PM · edited Tue, 05 August 2014 at 2:59 PM

file_506359.jpg

> Quote - i wonder if anyone can answer this, it says "Kinect for windows" but can i use my 360 kinect which has its own power supply?

     The unofficial answer:  Yes.  You'll need a USB adapter ($13 US, at Amazon or WalMart) and you'll need to install the Microsoft Kinect SDK (Poser Game Dev's runtime is enough for the Kinect for Windows sensor).

     Be aware that the Xbox360 sensor does not have near-focus ability;  the Windows version's near focus allows you to use the sensor in a small room space.  The Windows version also has control panel features.

Poser 12, in feet.  

OSes:  Win7Prox64, Win7Ultx64

Silo Pro 2.5.6 64bit, Vue Infinite 2014.7, Genetica 4.0 Studio, UV Mapper Pro, UV Layout Pro, PhotoImpact X3, GIF Animator 5


EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 3:06 PM

Can you use Kinect for Windows on a Mac?




seachnasaigh ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 3:12 PM

     For everybody's info, Microsoft only "supports" use of the Kinect for Windows and they charge a lot more for this "commercial use" licensing. It does have the advantage of being able to focus in close, which the Xbox 360 version lacks.

      The chassis look identical; if shopping eBay, note the logo: one has "Xbox 360" and the Windows version has "Kinect". Xbox sensors run about $25 US used; the Windows sensor will be $217 new and the best I've seen pre-owned still in box was $170. If you get the Xbox sensor, you'll also need an adapter (about $13) and you'll need to install the MS SDK.

     Essentially, what you're buying when you pay extra for the Windows sensor is licensing, i.e., Microsoft's blessing to use it for producing commercial content. The Windows Kinect is licensed for commercial use, has the adapter already included, and has the near-field focus ability.

     All of this is "to the best of my knowledge" and subject to correction by more knowledgeable folk.

Kinect sensors.  .

Poser 12, in feet.  

OSes:  Win7Prox64, Win7Ultx64

Silo Pro 2.5.6 64bit, Vue Infinite 2014.7, Genetica 4.0 Studio, UV Mapper Pro, UV Layout Pro, PhotoImpact X3, GIF Animator 5


seachnasaigh ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 3:15 PM

Quote - Can you use Kinect for Windows on a Mac?

     I believe the answer is no, but not sure.

Poser 12, in feet.  

OSes:  Win7Prox64, Win7Ultx64

Silo Pro 2.5.6 64bit, Vue Infinite 2014.7, Genetica 4.0 Studio, UV Mapper Pro, UV Layout Pro, PhotoImpact X3, GIF Animator 5


ssgbryan ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 3:22 PM

Quote - Can you use Kinect for Windows on a Mac?

If you roll up your sleeves:

http://blog.nelga.com/setup-microsoft-kinect-on-mac-os-x-10-9-mavericks/

http://www.codingcolor.com/featured-articles/set-up-kinect-on-osx-10-8-mountain-lion/

http://www.alan-pipitone.com/index.php/en/blogeng/apple-mac/item/84-use-kinect-with-mac-osx

http://developkinect.com/guide-resources/mac-os-x

http://openkinect.org/wiki/Getting_Started#OS_X

 



bantha ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 4:34 PM

Kinect on the Mac uses the OpenNI-Driver structure. The Kinect plugin in Poser uses Microsoft's framework. Those two aren't interchangeable.

I don't have a Mac, so I cannot check, but I don't see any refernces to the OpenNI drivers in the handbook. Also, Windows 7 or 8 is mentioned in the requirements.

It seems as if the Kinect capture feature is Windows only. 


A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori


EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 8:03 PM

Hmmm, well, that sucks. I do have a Windows laptop, but I do all of my Posering on my desktop which is a Mac.




AmbientShade ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 8:43 PM

There seems to be a lot of people unsure of kinect functionality, not just in poserverse. From what I've been reading off various forums is that the xbox kinect will sometimes work on the windows sdk, but not natively and there's no official support for it. Others say it works just fine. Some have claimed burn-outs of a lens adjust feature. 

Either way, if I get one I'll go with the windows version. It sounds to me that it would be worth the extra price for the additional features, plus the warranty which would likely be void if I used an xbox kinect on windows and something went wrong. I don't have an xbox anyway, as I don't play console games. 

 

 



grichter ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 9:32 PM

So thousands of you have bought this today, yet nobody has posted any detailed usage images yet...whats up with that :laugh:

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"


piersyf ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 9:46 PM

Installed it... despite indicating that I wanted it to, it did not preserve any preferences, so back to factory default with everything. Also, python scripts are not in the scripts menu although they are still in the correct folder. I'll either need to reinstall them or find a way to get Poser to recognise the scripts are there.

Polygon reduction worked a treat.

Grouping works as well, but be careful of any clothes that use trans maps. Any skin underneath the transparent areas get deleted or hidden! There is an option to manually select the areas to hide, but of course that's slower.

For me, despite having no lack of power on my system, it freaked out when I tried to render something. Screens flickering, even got an OS warning that the GPU wasn't coping (despite being near top end with current drivers). Set to separate process, works like before.

Essentially, 2 hours on I have ALMOST got back what PP2014 was already giving me. I think that the poly reduction capacity will be worth it eventually (like in a day or 2). For $40 I'm not complaining (much). It would have been nice if it had just kept the scripts and prefs in place...


piersyf ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 10:15 PM

Just reinstalled Ezskin but no go, doesn't show up in the scripts menu. Haven't checked the new manual yet (yes, they did one!). Workaround at the moment is to add the python menu to my open windows on the UI and give one to Ezskin. The script still works, I just can't get it to show in the pull down menu.

Also noticed, there are now 2 runtimes inside the Poser Pro 2014 folder, both with python subfolders.


Netherworks ( ) posted Tue, 05 August 2014 at 11:41 PM

I've had a not very good day today, so if I posted this already, forgive me.

XBOX Kinect works if you install the 1.8 Kinect SDK from Microsoft (Windows 7 or higher only).  You do not get zoom ability but the Poser Kinect can change the elevation.  There is an accessory for a few bucks (Amazon it) that will change the zoom to require less distance.

.


bantha ( ) posted Wed, 06 August 2014 at 12:54 AM

Quote - There seems to be a lot of people unsure of kinect functionality, not just in poserverse. From what I've been reading off various forums is that the xbox kinect will sometimes work on the windows sdk, but not natively and there's no official support for it. Others say it works just fine. Some have claimed burn-outs of a lens adjust feature. 

I use the kinect for 3d scanning since quite a while and I know some other people who do similar things. We did not have problems with the XBOX Kinect and the Microsoft SDK, as long as there are no OpenNI-Drivers around.

OpenNI is the open source framework for the kinect which started to evolve before Microsoft published it's own SDK and anounced the first Kinect for Windows. If you have OpenNI on your machine, the Primesense driver will be used for the Kinect, and the Microsoft SDK won't find the Kinect. If that's the case you will have to remove the drivers from your system before installing the SDK. 

I haven't seen any burned out lenses or stuff like that. Most people start with the XBOX Kinect since you can get an used one very cheap on Ebay.

If Poser would support the Kinect V2 at some time, it would be great. The V2 needs Windows 8, but it has a much better depth sensor and can even capture finger movements with ease. The V1 Kinect cannot do that.


A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for.
Sail out to sea and do new things.
-"Amazing Grace" Hopper

Avatar image of me done by Chidori


wolf359 ( ) posted Wed, 06 August 2014 at 9:13 AM

That is a decent upgrade price for existing poser pro owners.



My website

YouTube Channel



shedofjoy ( ) posted Thu, 07 August 2014 at 7:00 AM

I have downloaded,uninstalled the previous version of Pro2014 and installed the new version, but i cannot find any of the new functions, where are the new options?

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.


shedofjoy ( ) posted Thu, 07 August 2014 at 7:10 AM

been at this for two hours and have found none of the game dev features in my downloaded version, and no reference in the manual inside poser to these features, i have no idea whats going on

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.


shedofjoy ( ) posted Thu, 07 August 2014 at 7:28 AM

Right the main splash screen is exactly the same as the normal pro2014 and everyhing inside is the same, i have got the "Poser Pro Game Dev Addendum.pdf" documentation which says i should have

"file>export>FBX"

"Figure > Combine Figures"

of which i have neither of these, can anyone please help as im at a loss to tell whats going on, so far im thinking i have just lost £30

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.


vilters ( ) posted Thu, 07 August 2014 at 7:42 AM

With your download you recieved a new serial number.

Goto help => personalise, and isert your new serial number to activate the new functions.

Happy Posering

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


piersyf ( ) posted Thu, 07 August 2014 at 7:46 AM

Agree with Vilters. It isn't at all obvious, but that is what you do. Take the new serial number SM sent you, do as Vilters says, and the splash screen will show and the addendum manual will be available in the help menu.


shedofjoy ( ) posted Thu, 07 August 2014 at 8:01 AM

Thankyou Vilters and piersyf that helped, I think they should have made that clear, i reinstalled poser 4 times thinking uninstalling would remove my previous registration,clearly not,lol. now i can have some fun

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.


AmbientShade ( ) posted Fri, 08 August 2014 at 12:09 PM

Can the game dev version be installed separately or does it only work as an upgrade?

 



vilters ( ) posted Fri, 08 August 2014 at 1:33 PM · edited Fri, 08 August 2014 at 1:34 PM

The Game Dev version can be installed as an update :
(it will look for your existing PP2014 installation)

But is is a complete version that comes with a full PoserPro2014 version,
upgraded to SR4, and all content and support files.

Default :
It will uninstall your current PP2014 installation.
Install the new PP2014 Game Dev version build 10.0.4.27796, with the new support and content files.

Then you go to the Help menu => Personalise
=> input your new serial number to activate the Game Dev functions
Restart Poser.


But If you choose : You can install to another folder on your PC.
I can not see why?
As the new version is PP2014 SR4 , AND unlocks to the Game Dev version by its new serial number.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


AmbientShade ( ) posted Fri, 08 August 2014 at 1:38 PM · edited Fri, 08 August 2014 at 1:46 PM

Thanks Vilters.

Reason being, I want to make sure everything that currently functions in 2014 will function the same (or better?) in 2014 GD. So the ability to install it separately will help me determine that, and if there is some kind of new bug my stable copy of 2014 won't be affected. 

ETA: so SR4 is also part of this new release? It's not listed on Poser's update page.

 



vilters ( ) posted Fri, 08 August 2014 at 2:01 PM · edited Fri, 08 August 2014 at 2:02 PM

Yes, the new version includes SR4.
And the GD functions are activated by the new Serial number.

And YES ; it is even far more stable then PP2014 SR3.1

I could not find anything "newly broken".
And I write that in confidence.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


vilters ( ) posted Fri, 08 August 2014 at 2:07 PM

Many moons ago, I also kept the older versions; "Just to be sure". LOL.

I do not do that any more on my main Poser PC's.
But I have an older PC with "most" of the older versions.

It's been months that that one booted up. LOL, and for other reasons then Poser.
Mostly just to let him load all the Windows upgrades from time to time.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


hornet3d ( ) posted Sun, 10 August 2014 at 3:46 AM

I have downloaded and installed the Game version doing a default installation which uninstalled my current 2014 installation.  I had a few problems with my custom set up and Poser would not launch in my 'preffered state' but narrowed that down to a third party script, so it was not a Poser problem and I have since resolved the issue. 

Had the same problem as others in not seing the new features but thanks to threads here I went the 'Personalise' route and everything appeared.  In fairness the Game Dev Addendum does describe the procedure, in fact it is the first thing discussed which is logical.  Only helps if you download and install the Poser Support download and then read it so it trips up those like me that become impatient to play with their new purchase.

 

Had a few hours play with it last night, which for me means trying to break it and all seems fine so far.  Might be my imagination but the raytrace preview looks to be slightly faster with better results but, as I said that might be my imagination.  Other than that looks good to me so far and at this price how can you complain. 

So the plan today is read through the Addendum and tackle the new stuff.  Not realy interested in the game stuff mind, more interested in filling my still renders with characters.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.


piersyf ( ) posted Sun, 10 August 2014 at 4:36 AM

I have a couple of observations, which may have already been there but gone un noticed 'til now...

previously, when I saved a character and then loaded it, the last item in the heirarchy was what showed in the preview list (usually shoes). Now it shows the top item (the main character). That is good! Although it still loads the hip...

Also, the delete function... did it always hve the check box to delete all attached? If so, I've been doing it the slow way (one at a time) for no reason... if it's new, it's a good idea!

Just a question... why does Poser change to the properties tab when activating or removing IK? What is it on the properties tab that relates to IK?


bopperthijs ( ) posted Thu, 14 August 2014 at 5:25 PM · edited Thu, 14 August 2014 at 5:26 PM

I think I found an easteregg: When you load something from the library, and you look in the materialroom all maps will have the correct gamma setting, colormaps have the user settings (2.20 probably) and bump-, specular- and displacementmaps are set to 1.

Having said that, they fixed some bugs in the renderengine and improved it somehow: dynamic hair and IDl-lighting didn't go always well and renders now without problems and figure and propbased hair looks much better now.

I can't compair it with poserpro 2014 anymore, but I'm sure my renders are looking much better now.

greetings,

Bopper.

-How can you improve things when you don't make mistakes?


Jan19 ( ) posted Fri, 15 August 2014 at 11:10 AM

Hi, I posted this in the feature request thread, too.

Since Smith Micro has released this Game Dev version of Poser, could we get support for pbr materials, at some point?

Thank you!

I love me some Modo!  :-)


Santel ( ) posted Sun, 17 August 2014 at 2:46 AM

Gee, when I tried to test fbx import, poser crashes everytime, I'm not talking about a specific file, it crashes immediately before another input box. duh


Santel ( ) posted Sun, 17 August 2014 at 3:01 AM

OOPS. solved. I opened the download manager to re-install the executables and noticed the update tab where I found the service release 4. Downloaded that and re-entered the new serial number and all is good lol!!!


Jan19 ( ) posted Sun, 17 August 2014 at 8:25 AM

I haven't done that -- thank you, I need to check to see if my SR is installed.

I love me some Modo!  :-)


vilters ( ) posted Sun, 17 August 2014 at 8:52 AM

The SR4 is version 10.0.4.27796

The Game Dev functions are activated by the new GD Serial Number.

Have fun using the new Poser Tools.
Tony

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


Jan19 ( ) posted Sun, 17 August 2014 at 6:49 PM

Well, I installed an update over the upgrade, I guess.

Ah, well -- hopefully no harm done.  :-)

I love me some Modo!  :-)


hornet3d ( ) posted Mon, 18 August 2014 at 5:38 AM

In fairness the activation process is well described in the addendum.  Question is can you get to the addendum from the help menu if the game version is not activated?  If not you have to download and break into the support folder to be able to read it.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.


grichter ( ) posted Mon, 08 September 2014 at 4:54 PM

Quote - In fairness the activation process is well described in the addendum.  Question is can you get to the addendum from the help menu if the game version is not activated?  If not you have to download and break into the support folder to be able to read it.

Been traveling on business and was in town for the weekend before going out for 3 more days and upgraded to the GD verison I bought a few weeks back via the download manger and addded the serial number and no addendum shows up. The functions are active inside of Poser.  Nothing that looks like an addendum next to the standerd docs or the python docs that I can see.

When you say above the support folder.....Can I assume the addendum is in the support file installer and try re-installing just that when I get back Friday?

If possible can somebody post the full file name of the addenum so I can search to see if it got installed someplace odd.

I am on a Mac BTW.

Thanks, Gary

 

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"


hornet3d ( ) posted Mon, 08 September 2014 at 5:35 PM

My addendum is placed here-  

"C:DocumentationPoser Pro Game Dev Addendum.pdf"

 

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.


grichter ( ) posted Mon, 08 September 2014 at 6:38 PM

Quote - My addendum is placed here-  

"C:DocumentationPoser Pro Game Dev Addendum.pdf"

 

Thanks

I searched on the word addendum yesterday and nadda. I am already traveling again until Friday. I will try reinstalling the support part of the update see if that solves the problem

Gary

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"


hornet3d ( ) posted Tue, 09 September 2014 at 3:00 AM

Quote - > Quote - My addendum is placed here-  

"C:DocumentationPoser Pro Game Dev Addendum.pdf"

 

Thanks

I searched on the word addendum yesterday and nadda. I am already traveling again until Friday. I will try reinstalling the support part of the update see if that solves the problem

Gary

 

It should do, I used the download manager and that is where it placed it and I also found documentation for Poser Pro 2010 and 2012 in the same folder so it looks like a default folder.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.


grichter ( ) posted Fri, 12 September 2014 at 7:28 AM

Hornet3D back for 1 day before I travel again and reinstalling the support files did the trick.

now can can see the Game dev addendum and can get to work and make even a bigger mess of things while traveling :)

thanks

Gary

"Those who lose themselves in a passion lose less than those who lose their passion"


hornet3d ( ) posted Fri, 12 September 2014 at 9:55 AM

Quote - Hornet3D back for 1 day before I travel again and reinstalling the support files did the trick.

now can can see the Game dev addendum and can get to work and make even a bigger mess of things while traveling :)

thanks

 

Glad you managed to sort it.   Enjoy your travels and stay safe.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.


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