I wanted to buy "Bustier Dress V4-A4-G4" by nikisatez but it was "unavailable". I wrote the artist and was told that there was a Genesis version for sale on DAZ. I can't imagine an artist wouldn't want to make money off the old costume. All I can figure is DAZ is pressuring content makers to make their V4 stuff unavailable to force us into Genesis. Has anyone else seen other signs of this?

DAZ strong-arming vendors on a totally different site that they have no influence over to drop V4 and switch to Genesis? 

Now seriously, vendors decide what they want to support. Simply that's the bottom line.

I don't see that being the case at all, as they've been promoting V4 and M4 and a large portion of their Gen4 content pretty heavily since the spring at 80% off. It's allowed me to pick up products for them that I otherwise would never have spent the money on since I didn't absolutely need the stuff. I'm sure it's done the same for many others as well, on top of perhaps a little boost in Gen4 sales at rosity and other stores that still rely heavily on their gen4 content, sales that might otherwise not have been made. 

You might want to ask the vendor why they chose to no longer sell the V4 content. Perhaps they are the one who chose to promote their own Genesis content over their V4 content. Many vendors have moved to supporting Genesis1 and 2 (mostly 2 now) for various reasons of their own. 

Quote - All I can figure is DAZ is pressuring content makers to make their V4 stuff unavailable to force us into Genesis. Has anyone else seen other signs of this?

No, certainly never happened to me. In fact, recently they asked me to put my V4 stuff on sale. Its up to the vendors if they make V4 or Genesis, if its good it will go in the store :)

Without any verifiable facts, you are purely speculating which can be seriously misinterpreted and open to unnecessary and, perhaps, hostile debate.  I'm with Male_M3dia on this one, vendors chose to support whatever model they feel will produce the most revenue.  If you desire the V4 version, try to make special arrangements with the creator and vendor.  

Or no DAZ doesn't really want to support pre DAZ Studio products

It's why Exodus follows Genesis

@Jim: If that were true then they could just as easily pull their pre-Genesis figures from the store, which they haven't even done with V3 or V2, and likely never will. In fact if I'm not mistaken, someone said recently that V4 was just updated earlier this year. Not sure on that one though. 

That is true, V4 was quietly updated to correct some minor problems.

Yeah. I'm not saying they're necessarily doing anything nefarious if they are. The artist didn't say why they pulled it and I didn't want to bother them more than I already had. DAZ can make whatever deals they want with whomever they want. I just wanted to know if anyone had seen any other signs like that. If DAZ is actually trying to actively move people out of V4 I want to know about it. That's all.

Allowing the item to continue to be for sale is a "non act". Making it unavailable is an "act". I couldn't think why someone would do that. Thanks for your replies. By the way, sometimes things are put on sale right before they are removed from the store.

Thanks again!

Quote -
Allowing the item to continue to be for sale is a "non act".

Not entirely true. They will still be expected to provide customer support for that item, at least by their customers if not by their brokers, so they sometimes pull items they no longer want to support, especially if it hasn't been selling for a while. Each vendor has their own way of doing things but no one else can decide what a vendor does with their own products. 

Good point. I didn't think of that. Thanks.

What I am seeing is some of the hair vendors are making the same product for both Gen and V4 and sold in the same set. Same with some of the character morphs sets (They cover both Gen and V4). Smart move by those vendors as they covers all the bases.

I can also understand vendors getting what is commonly referred to as writers block with V4 when it comes to wearable items. Whereas the Gen character allows either recycling, recycling with additons-improvements or just more freedon since the the wearable content for Gen characters isn't saturated yet.

Since I do exclsuively story illustrations, it is the buildings and prop items that will worry me if the creators step away from poser. Still don't have enough things to create scenes to place V4 in that are made yet. I am the worlds worst modler, so I rely on content.

Half to remember as far as Poser in concerned DAZ is just a vender just like nikisatez .

all DSON really is ,
is a way for the vender DAZ to get there newer meshes in Poser so they can still be a Poser vender.

Does DAZ request ideams sold on there site to have DSON support ?
It seems most there store works with DSON

DAZ still supports Poser & V4 ,Even thou they have DAZ Studio & V6.

DAZ the vender seems to be willing to go to any length to try to keep every one happy.
even to the point of hurting them selfs.

There's a old saying the toughest boss is the public.

Well Daz still has loads of V4 and M4 stuff for sale.  I recently made a purchase from Daz, the first in a couple of years and it may not be my last.  What prompted me was the 80% sale on the V4/M4 Elite Ethnic Faces Bundle and the M4/V4 Creature Creater Bundle.   At $89.90 for the pair at full price I would not have purchased them but at $17.98 I guessed it was not going to get any cheaper. 

This also meant I could then purchase some M4 morphs at Runtime DNA which were also on sale.  I have wanted these for a while but as they needed the M4 Morphs the total cost would have been in the region of $75 now I have purchased them for less that $22 and got the V4 morphs into the bargin.

Now those into conspiracy theories could say that this is because the intent is to stop selling V4 and M4 stuff but many of the massive sales include Genesis stuff as well.

Whatever the reason behind the sales, as it looks as though I will be using V4 and M4 for quite a while to come, I am a happy little bunny at the present moment.

Quote - They will still be expected to provide customer support for that item, at least by their customers  

I buy only V4 content and always let the vendor know how much I appreciate their continued support for Vicky.    

DAZ won't cut off V4, although Roxie's had a fair few goes at it!

Quote - @Jim: If that were true then they could just as easily pull their pre-Genesis figures from the store, which they haven't even done with V3 or V2, and likely never will.

I believe Vicky and Michael 1 and 2 are indeed  gone; at least I can't find them...

EDIT:  Victoria 1 is there, but not V2.  No Mike 1 or 2.....

There's a Michael 2 bundle, and an M3 to M2 figure comes with the M3 base for backwards compatibility. Still a bit of content available for M2 as well. 

It's difficult to find these things cause their site is a pain to search, as are most of these stores. 

The Michael 2 Bundle does not include Michael 2...

Contains the following products

• Michael 2.0 Texture Maps (high res)
• Millennium Beard
• Michael Clothing Pak 1
• Michael Clothing Pak 2
• Michael 2.0 Morphing Clothing Pak 1 & 2
• Michael Suit Coat Pak
• Michael's Wedge Cut Hairstyle
• Michael's Conforming Long Hair
• Michael 2.0 Character Pak 2

Michael2 is Don, i thought.  and V2 - Judy?

i heard, v1 and v2 are the same mesh, but v2 had more morphs.

Don and Judy are the native Poser figures from Poser 5.

Quote - Don and Judy are the native Poser figures from Poser 5.

yes.

all descends from zygote

I don't think DAZ would have such a policy. However, the newest clothes for Genny are often REALLY impressive!

If the product in question was for sale here at Rendo: A lot of people may not know, but if a product does not sell for a certain amount of time, it goes on clearance, and if still doesn't sell, it gets pulled from the store altogether. (I suspect there is a similar policy at other stores.) Therefore, unavailability of a product may have nothing to do with the vendor's choice to begin with.

I don't ever post on this site so let this be my first and only one.

Let's face it:

I've used Poser since Poser 4. I loved Poser when I could pose my 3d models for drawing references. As time went on, I started giving up on drawing and just doing more 3D art.

 I am currently trying to learn Daz3D because I can clearly see where the market will end up if things continue this way. Daz Studio is going to KILL Poser eventually. Hell Daz3d advertising is better, it's free, more artist make items to support Daz3d than they do Poser now. Poser is becoming a relic. Sure, it started the popularity but TIMES CHANGE and Smith-Micro does NOT seem to understand that.

Most of us would probably USE Genesis if it wasn't for Smith-Micro trying to "do their own thing" and not conform to the popularity that is DAZ3D models.

V4 is only getting support because some vendors REALIZE there is a big market for her still because WE CAN'T USE GENESIS properly unless we use Daz3D. Many TOP artist are not supporting Poser anymore and are only making things for Daz3D.  This is not just about Genesis anymore. Props, scenes, materials...EVERYTHING. And what is Smith-Micro doing:

"We won't conform because we were here first! You should conform to us!"

Smith-Micro isn't trying to make it any easier for us to use Daz3d products either. Instead all the effort appears to come from Daz3D.

Poser will be left in the dust because it will only be a matter of time before V4 just doesn't cut it anymore.

 And this is coming from someone that has known about Poser, loved and used it for longer than many. I enjoyed Poser but I can't ignore that the development team is now ruining it for all of us that would rather use it.

Meh, I think this is more about exclusitivity deals than anything. The dress the OP mentioned was a new product, it had been in the rendo store for no more than a couple of months when it got pulled, along with several other of nikisatez' items, to be released for G2F at Daz. Most likely, the got an exclusitivity deal that made them pull it from Rendo, as to why they didn't release the V4 items at Daz as well, I don't know. Maybe they already had a deal with Rendo that prevented them from moving it over?

This has been happening to several vendors. Mec4D removed several of her items from her own store, to release them exclusively at Daz. She had been working on several outfits for Dawn, but decided to release them for G2F at Daz instead, and she said herself that she will not be allowed to release them for Dawn at a later point, because they are Daz exclusives.

Money talks, simple as that. Daz gives better deals than other sites, and vendors need to make money. I don't blame them, but it does annoy me. shrug

@grimx

I have heard the same thing said about Microsoft PCs and Apple for years and guess what, they are both still here. 

Just because something is free does not mean everyone will use it, I happily pay for each upgrade of Poser rather than use Daz Studio, Personal choice.

As to one killing the other, well it is just as likely that something new will appear and kill them both but life is exciting enough without trying to tell the future.

@grimx - I mostly agree with you. However I don't see Poser being "killed" by DS any time soon. Too many people are still using various versions of it and will continue to do so long after it's no longer being developed, if that ever happens.

I think what is more probable, based on the way things have been looking lately, is that it will gradually lose its appeal to the majority of content vendors who no longer see it as a sustainable source of income, as the Gen4 figures grow increasingly older and nothing better replaces them that the Poser communities are willing to accept. Most people seem pretty adamant about not wanting to move to any figures that aren't DAZ (which is why I quit developing the figures I was working on as it's mostly a waste of time and energy at this point for anyone to try). Until that mindset changes across the community, nothing else will either. There have been several figures come along in recent years that had a lot of potential and could have been made better had the Poser community as a whole shown more support for them - in terms of buying or at least verbal support and encouragement. But that didn't happen, cause it wasn't from DAZ. Seems to me like a serious case of self-imposed grid-lock. 

Anyway, if y'all want to discuss positive aspects of what might make Poser or its content more appealing that's fine but this thread isn't going to become another Poser vs DAZ argument or I'll just lock it. The OP's question has pretty much been satisfied so most anything else regarding DAZ is just tempting fate. Just throwing that out there as fair warning.

I thought they had some real potential with Anastasia and Tyler.

I expected to see more support for her, but instead they threw another figure out there that could have used a couple more months of tweaking before release (imo). so it's back to square one.

wasted potential, (again imo) :glare:

if they could like release tools to allow content artists to
uv-swap/defined-poly-group swap, and not be stuck
with the limitations of the base obj.  
when they couldn't weightmap their own g2 figures,
something about symmetry,
tools to address those base .obj files sounds logical?

make the effort worth the while of the artists, eh?  

seems discouragement is high right naos.

Quote - Most of us would probably USE Genesis if it wasn't for Smith-Micro trying to "do their own thing" and not conform to the popularity that is DAZ3D models.

NO, no, no.

Smith-Micro realized that it would be foolish decision to tie their product to whatever parts of DAZ Studio that Genesis requires. Doing such a thing would leave them always two steps behind DAZ in introducing new features, and possibly limit their ability to innovate in different areas.

And with DAZ's ability to release a major update to D|S whenever they feel like it, Smith-Micro would either have to follow that with their own (not insignificant, and probably money-requiring) update, or hold off until their next planned Poser version. I don't see Poser users being fond of either option. And either way, Poser would always be lagging behind D|S in implementing features.

DAZ Studio exists because DAZ3D didn't want to tie their fortunes to the fate of Poser, which was rather questionable at the time. Asking Smith-Micro to incorporate the features into Poser necessary for Genesis would be essentially the same thing in reverse.

So why was it acceptable for DAZ3D to be independent of Poser's future but not for Poser to be independent of DAZ Studio's?

Quote - I enjoyed Poser but I can't ignore that the development team is now ruining it for all of us that would rather use it.

As someone who's been using Poser for only about 10 years(longer than some, not as long as others), I think the Poser dev team is doing an wonderful job in improving and expanding on Poser's functionality. I love Poser Pro 2014, and wouldn't consider going back to say, Poser 5.

Quote - Anyway, if y'all want to discuss positive aspects of what might make Poser or its content more appealing that's fine but this thread isn't going to become another Poser vs DAZ argument or I'll just lock it. The OP's question has pretty much been satisfied so most anything else regarding DAZ is just tempting fate. Just throwing that out there as fair warning.

SM is making Poser more appealing with every release.  At least to people that want to move beyond Load, Conform, Make Art.  That may not mean much to folks here, but it matters to those of us that are moving beyond NVIATWAS.

I think part of the problem is that people here conflate the 'Rosity community with the Poser community.  If you are moving or want to move past Poser 7, this isn't the place to be.

Another part of the problem is that SM have provided Poser users the tools to make the vendors less relevant.  A lot of people complained about lack of clothing for any figure not named Victoria 4 - SM heard us & provided us tools to address that need.

As a Poser 2014 user, I have access to all figures.  My figures have access to all of the clothing I have purchased.  Well, except for shoes. 

FBX import means I have access to all kinds of well made, quality props (esp furniture) - There is a serious lack of them in the Poserverse.

Combine figures means I can build fully clothed figures for a crowded scene quickly.  Granted, that isn't much use for the Gil Elvgren/Frazetta wanna-bes, but I moved on.

Simply run down the figure tab and look at all of the useful things that have been added over the past couple of versions.

Copy Morphs from means I don't care if clothing has the character morphs I need anymore (and they never do) - I simply delete all of those out & add the FBM I made from a vendor's dial-spin (or a vendor's Z-Brush custom morph) and add it to the clothing. 

No muss, no fuss - Clothing made for a mesh always fits - did I mention it is a WHOLE lot lighter on system resouces?  That matters when I have every seat filled (13 fully clothed characters) on one of my Star Trek Bridges.

The fitting room means I can slide V4 content onto Dawn in less than 30 seconds.  90 seconds or so for other figures.  I have V4 clothing that has never gone on a V4 figure.  I have clothing for V4 that has gone on almost every figure I own (Couragous & Valient Outfits for V4 and M4) - Everybody from Posette to Eroko to Roxie to Apollo Maximus to Tyler & everyone in between.

The morph brush gets major improvements with every release.

The add-on framework means that I get access to all of the brilliance Pret-a-3D (Reality 3), Semidieu (Advanced Figure Randomizer and INJ Builder - easily build & export your INJs), Snarly-Gribbly (EZ-Skin2, EZ-Mat), and Netherworks Studio (Hair Control System, Creators Toybox, Batch Material Convert - to deal with those @@@@@ vendors that build products for Poser 9+ figures using Poser 4 workflows) and even DSON to bring the golum into Poser.  Again, not much use for Poser 7 workflow crowd, but for those of us that want value for our dollar, to paraphrase the Vice-President:  "It's a big fcking deal."*

SM & DAZ have fundamentally different business models.  SM is not, nor have they ever been, dependant on content sales. 

As far as buying content for non-DAZ figures - I can't buy what isn't made.  I haven't bought everything I want for Dawn (or Antonia, or Michelle,) here at 'Rosity (& other storefronts), but I am steadily working through my wishlist.

OTOH, due to the advances in the past couple of versions of Poser, older content has become viable again, also made it's way to my buy list.

As an example, since Billy-T weight mapped TY2, I am using her again - and buying content I didn't already have for her.  TY2 looks fundamentally different than V4 - and I am after variety - not 20 ever so slightly different version of the same V4 figure that the vendors have been cranking out for the past half decade.

The same can be said for other content.  Granted, that doesn't help vendors who are making YAV4HO (Yet Another V4 Hookerware Outfit), but they are the ones who decided to take a "slash & burn farming" mentality for making and selling 3D content.

The best thing about Poser is I have access to a much wider variety of figures and vendors. 

Quote -
The best thing about Poser is I have access to a much wider variety of figures and vendors. 

Which means squat to anyone who only lives for the next dollar they can give to DAZ.

Quote - > Quote - Most of us would probably USE Genesis if it wasn't for Smith-Micro trying to "do their own thing" and not conform to the popularity that is DAZ3D models.

 

NO, no, no.

Smith-Micro realized that it would be foolish decision to tie their product to whatever parts of DAZ Studio that Genesis requires. Doing such a thing would leave them always two steps behind DAZ in introducing new features, and possibly limit their ability to innovate in different areas.

Not correct. The DSON file format (Genesis, Genesis 2 Male, Genesis 2 Female, Dragon 3, etc.) does not require any parts of DAZ Studio to work. It is a plain text file format, which has changed exactly once, when the changes were made that were required to make it work in Poser using the DSON Importer, which was the same time the user facing files (DUF) seperate from the back end files, were introduced.

The best move SM ever made was to NOT include a single line of code for Genesis.

DAZ left Poser compatibility at their own free will and SM can not be held responsible nor hostage by this move.

Every end user can choose what content or application suits them best.

On a side note :
In 1995 Poser was alone. Now in 2014 we have a dozen of apps in the same market, each with its ups and downs in possibilities and content.
Content sites come and go.
Vendors come and go.

And? 
The same content is build over and over again leading to market saturation.
It is too late for new vendors. The "big money" opportunities are gone.

AFAIK DAZ isn't releasing tools to anything but DS as evidenced by the HD stuff only working in DS

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Most of us would probably USE Genesis if it wasn't for Smith-Micro trying to "do their own thing" and not conform to the popularity that is DAZ3D models.

 

NO, no, no.

Smith-Micro realized that it would be foolish decision to tie their product to whatever parts of DAZ Studio that Genesis requires. Doing such a thing would leave them always two steps behind DAZ in introducing new features, and possibly limit their ability to innovate in different areas.

Not correct. The DSON file format (Genesis, Genesis 2 Male, Genesis 2 Female, Dragon 3, etc.) does not require any parts of DAZ Studio to work. It is a plain text file format, which has changed exactly once, when the changes were made that were required to make it work in Poser using the DSON Importer, which was the same time the user facing files (DUF) seperate from the back end files, were introduced.

Actually, he's right. In fact, that statement is a pretty good paraphrasing of the statement Steve Cooper released from Poser explaining why they hadn't  gone that route. The DSON importer (as I understand it, because I don't use it or Genesis) is a collaboration between DAZ and SM to allow Poser to get Genesis into Poser and allow it to take advantage of what features it can that Poser does support. So Genesis does work in Poser and still people complain.

Hay now ,no picking on my Gil Elvgren/Frazetta Girls ;)

No one ,not even HiveWire3D has ever really challenged DAZ.
DAZ Screams for it the most.
They fight the hardest to rule ,that's why they do rule in the DAZ ,Poser realms.

Anyone can go make characters ,cloths etc etc that's more of a interest then what's in the stores now ,anyone .

Out of all the Art mediums ,Who has the most interesting gallerys ?

Quote - Hay now ,no picking on my Gil Elvgren/Frazetta Girls ;)

---

No one ,not even HiveWire3D has ever really challenged DAZ.
DAZ Screams for it the most.
They fight the hardest to rule ,that's why they do rule in the DAZ ,Poser realms.

Anyone can go make characters ,cloths etc etc that's more of a interest then what's in the stores now ,anyone .

Out of all the Art mediums ,Who has the most interesting gallerys ?

Hey, I LOVE Gil Elvgren (I have a number of his prints scattered on the walls at my house.) & Frazetta.  It simply isn't what I want to do with 3D.

As far as DAZ, if it isn't 70% off, I am not buying.

Hivewire had (and still has) a shot - if Chris Creek ever decides to move with a sense of purpose.  He isn't in all that much of a hurry to finish up his latest mesh.  And doesn't appear to have any interest in developing ethnic morphs for his meshes - which will certainly limit their potential use.

I don't agree that anyone can make quality products - that takes some skill.  But it certainly isn't as hard as it used to be.

Anyone that has the CGI skills needed .
Could make some killer Game or SubDed ,characters ,cloths etc etc.for DAZ Poser
In the DAZ Poser stores ,Most of what I see is nice but simple & plane,
There's just nothing all that spectacular about it.
I don't care if it's 99.9% off ,if it's duel and borring ,don't bother.

The more wicked cool & spectacular it is .the more I'll pay.

lets say we have a wicked cool game character made and it's magnificent.

do we
A : rig ,test and sell at DAZ Poser stores for $10.00 and and have a 50% off sale
and have a lot of but I don't like this or that about it and it don't morph in to everything
and a lot of crying about a lot of nick pick stuff.

or

B:no rigs or testing needed. so less work
sale the mesh at pro sites for $50.00 instead of $5.00 that's $45.00 more
No crying or complaing. they can modifie the mesh anyway they want with there Pro App's.

Quote - AFAIK DAZ isn't releasing tools to anything but DS as evidenced by the HD stuff only working in DS

HD works just fine in Poser.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Most of us would probably USE Genesis if it wasn't for Smith-Micro trying to "do their own thing" and not conform to the popularity that is DAZ3D models.

 

NO, no, no.

Smith-Micro realized that it would be foolish decision to tie their product to whatever parts of DAZ Studio that Genesis requires. Doing such a thing would leave them always two steps behind DAZ in introducing new features, and possibly limit their ability to innovate in different areas.

Not correct. The DSON file format (Genesis, Genesis 2 Male, Genesis 2 Female, Dragon 3, etc.) does not require any parts of DAZ Studio to work. It is a plain text file format, which has changed exactly once, when the changes were made that were required to make it work in Poser using the DSON Importer, which was the same time the user facing files (DUF) seperate from the back end files, were introduced.

Actually, he's right. In fact, that statement is a pretty good paraphrasing of the statement Steve Cooper released from Poser explaining why they hadn't  gone that route.

No, the statement from Cooper was they would not support the DSON format, which would be like DAZ Studio not supporting the CR2 format, it had nothing to do with DS code in Poser.  No DAZ Studio Code would be needed by SM to support the format. 

The DSON Importer is the way it is because Poser does not support the DSON format. 

Shows what I know (I'm still reluctant to $pend any more Scheckles or shillings)

It is my understanding that the DSON Importer converts DAZ's Triax weight mapping to Poser's more generic industry standard weight mapping.  If I am correct than Poser would need to add code to use the DSON format natively.

Quote - It is my understanding that the DSON Importer converts DAZ's Triax weight mapping to Poser's more generic industry standard weight mapping.  If I am correct than Poser would need to add code to use the DSON format natively.

It does not do that. Poser's weightmapping is not Industry Standard, nor was it in Poser before Genesis was released. 

Yes, Poser would need to add code to support the DSON format natively, which is what I said, but it does not need to add DAZ Studio Code or be dependent on DAZ Studio.  

SM's WM approach is not built on an "industry standard" but it is built on the idea of progression from what already existed in traditional rigging (spheres and whatnot).

Unlike DS, which holds two dissimilar systems (traditional versus triaX) but does allow conversion in one direction (traditional to triaX), Poser allows easier hybridization and doing things like using traditional rigged objects on a weight-mapped figure or the other way around and mixing traditional and weighted in the same figure or articulate object.  I find that beneficial in Poser's case, others may have a different opinion on that.

DS supported the cr2 (etc) format because it was initially designed as a Poser alternative.  So without that support, at the time, you'd have a Poser customer base and a competing "clone" without content.  Cr2 was supported out of necessity, don't you think?  The analogy really has nothing to do with two different approaches to weight mapping in two different programs.

By Poser adding the code, it still means SM adopting the DAZ way of doing it, while both have their own systems.  Regarless if it has happened or not, keeping up with TriaX doing this in 4.1 or that in 4.3 or the other in 5.0 still means that there is pressure to keep up with production cycles of a different, competing company.

You could always offer a Poser-native version of your figures (out of the box), but I would guess (and would find it reasonable) that it doesn't really fit into long term plans.  You have goals and a focus.  Same exists on the other side of the coin, I would expect.

Quote - SM's WM approach is not built on an "industry standard" but it is built on the idea of progression from what already existed in traditional rigging (spheres and whatnot).

Unlike DS, which holds two dissimilar systems (traditional versus triaX) but does allow conversion in one direction (traditional to triaX), Poser allows easier hybridization and doing things like using traditional rigged objects on a weight-mapped figure or the other way around and mixing traditional and weighted in the same figure or articulate object.  I find that beneficial in Poser's case, others may have a different opinion on that.

DS supported the cr2 (etc) format because it was initially designed as a Poser alternative.  So without that support, at the time, you'd have a Poser customer base and a competing "clone" without content.  Cr2 was supported out of necessity, don't you think?  The analogy really has nothing to do with two different approaches to weight mapping in two different programs.

By Poser adding the code, it still means SM adopting the DAZ way of doing it, while both have their own systems.  Regarless if it has happened or not, keeping up with TriaX doing this in 4.1 or that in 4.3 or the other in 5.0 still means that there is pressure to keep up with production cycles of a different, competing company.

You could always offer a Poser-native version of your figures (out of the box), but I would guess (and would find it reasonable) that it doesn't really fit into long term plans.  You have goals and a focus.  Same exists on the other side of the coin, I would expect.

And yet, unlike the CR2 format, the DSON format has had only one change since Poser 8 was released. The analogy is sound, it is simply how a figure is defined.  Also note that the CR2 format, as it existed in Poser 8, as it existed in Poser 9 and as it exists in Poser 10 is not sufficeint to define Genesis, or Genesis 2. So no, the offering of a Poser Native version of Genesis or Genesis 2 is not possible unless Poser supports DSON.  

Cr2 Format: How so?  It's sufficient enough to translate into a Poser native figure via DSON Importer for Poser (building one on the fly via GUID created assets).

The cr2 format has only been changed to accomodate new settings.  The spec, it itself, hasn't been depreciated and its still backwards compatible because the structure hasn't changed.  There's a difference between adding something within the existing structure and re-writing how the code works.

Just saying... not intending to nitpick.  I support both platforms going down different paths, if that's what each company feels like it needs to do.  There certainly is a bigger picture here.

Quote - Cr2 Format: How so?  It's sufficient enough to translate into a Poser native figure via DSON Importer for Poser (building one on the fly via GUID created assets).

The cr2 format has only been changed to accomodate new settings.  The spec, it itself, hasn't been depreciated and its still backwards compatible because the structure hasn't changed.  There's a difference between adding something within the existing structure and re-writing how the code works.

Just saying... not intending to nitpick.  I support both platforms going down different paths, if that's what each company feels like it needs to do.  There certainly is a bigger picture here.

That is not how the DSON Importer for Poser works. You can convert to a CR2, but you lose most of what makes Genesis, Genesis.  So I can load Roxie, or even Allyson 2 in Poser 4 or even Poser 8 and they will work correctly? (And we both know that isn't true.)

That's not what I meant.  The cr2 is altered to accomodate additions to Poser but it is not "re-structured".  You would know that since DSON for Poser uses the customData declaration.

Obviously, if you try to use technology made for Poser 9 in Poser 4 it isn't going to work.  But chances are that something will still load because Poser is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand.  You'll get a Roxie but it's not really going to bend correctly because that tech isn't available in that version.  That was a bit silly, honestly.

If you rig a dress for V4 in Poser Pro 2014, it still works in Poser 4 or whatever, as long as you design using the tech that Poser 4 understands.  Just because the cr2 was made in Pro 2014 is irrelevant.  The only thing that needs to be changed is the version number of the cr2.

However, for example, you decide to put everything on .duf and remove the capability to produce a .dsa (or the number of variants .dsb, dse, whatnot), you've lost those using DS 3.1 (for whatever reason they still might be using it).  Sort of would force you to stay on the current version, wouldn't it? ;)

Quote:- Most people seem pretty adamant about not wanting to move to any figures that aren't DAZ (which is why I quit developing the figures I was working on as it's mostly a waste of time and energy at this point for anyone to try).

I thought your male figure was looking great and I was getting quite excited.  What people want is a figure that is better than DAZ figures. If you look at the promos for the new indie figures compared to daz figures that came out in the last few years, I think not many of the pictures look all that good by comparison, and promos are people doing presumably their best work.

People had high hopes for dawn but her bending seemed more like vickie 3 than 4 and her chin looked big in many promos and the corners of her mouth seemed to be longer than looks good for nonsmiling people, and turn up slightly at the ends, in many of the promos - well at least that is what I noticed.

I have seen a couple of renders of dawn that looked amazing, but I would need to be able to see a lot more to be convinced.

so anyway I think it is the quality of the figure (that happy number of polygons, the bending, the look of the figure, and the versitility) and it's support that make the difference, and I suspect a really good figure would get more support.

Love esther