@pumeco

I agree to a point. I thinks it's obvious that the reason DAZ made Studio Pro free was because users were far more willing to shell out cold hard cash for Poser to create their scenes and shell out cold hard cash to populate those scenes with DAZ and DAZ compatible content. I've used both Studio Pro 4+ and Poser Pro 2014. Even tho Studio is free to me, I'm still more willing to pay for Poser Pro because I like it better. There are things that Poser does - Face Room, Cloth Room, Hair Room - that I would love to use but don't because they are either not compatible with the figures - Vicky and Mike - that I prefer to use or they are just too hard to use with those figures. I've seen Nerd's tutorial on Poser's fitting room, watched it a few times in fact, but I sill can't make that room work with Vicky. I'm sure that's more my fault than it is Poser's fault. I'm a dilettante, a hobbyist. I'm a professional photographer, have been one my entire adult life. The reason why I do CG 3D is because it gives me the opportunity to create realistic scenes that would be very difficult, maybe even impossible, and hugely expensive to create in a camera. One of my biggest complaints about Poser, other than the messy library organization, is that the various customization rooms - fitting, hair, cloth, material - are so Byzantine and not at all intuitive. They may be discernible to professionals or people who've spent countless hours over long years using them, but for most of us, they're simply too opaque. There's really nothing at all intuitive about them. And let me be clear, I've been a Photoshop user for over 20 years. I've learned it and know it well because I've used it daily since Photoshop 2.5 was introduced. In fact I'm quite comfortable using most of Adobe's creative suite. So I'm hardly someone who doesn't know and isn't comfortable using complex, high end CG software.

**I think the reason why Nerd created this survey and started this thread was because, as the now head of product development for Poser, he wanted to know what Poser users liked and didn't like about Poser. The problem with surveys is that don't always ask the questions you'd like to answer and they don't always give you the option to answer questions the way you'd like to. I truly do hope that Nerd's been following this discussion. I'm just one of thousands of Poser's users but I hardly think my concerns are in a vacuum. I like Poser and I'm still willing to pay for it rather than use the free option that I can get from DAZ. I don't think making Poser more compatible with DAZ's content is a threat to Poser and I don't think that giving Poser users better native character content is a threat to DAZ. It just gives all of us more and better options. What's wrong with that. 
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Have fun :-)

My apologies for the blunt response there but I've reached the limit of my tolerance with this stuff, I'm not doing it anymore after this post.

I've gone off a few times and said, that's it, fuck it, I'm beyond this, I'm just not wasting my time arguing or debating it anymore.  The problem is (and I admit this is strictly my problem), it's hard to let people ramble-on when what they're saying is so obviously flawed, that it's pitiful.  There's no easy way to say that without sounding offensive or coming off as a know-it-all, which is why I tried not to, but at the same time, it's unbearable to just sit back and sort of pre-watch stuff go wrong due to incompetence.

I can say with all honesty that when it comes to this stuff, I'm pretty-much bang-on every time, everything I predict, it's fucking Twilight-Zone spooky how I do it, not just with software, but with anything, but please don't hate me for that.  The reason I said iClone is Poser's biggest threat, is because iClone is Poser's biggest threat.  The reason I said that Genesis should not be given any native support, is because Genesis should not be given any native support in Poser.  You do not beat the competition by helping them out, you make sure that your own product is better than theirs, which Poser already is, so all they need to do regards the figures, is make one better than theirs, one less complicated, one the users can actually create stuff for without needing a mile-long printout of qualifications. Even your own comment shows that Poser has what it takes to keep you paying for it, so that alone should tell you how incredibly dumb it would be for SM to submit to DAZ figures.

THEY DON'T NEED TO, SM ALREADY HOLD THE ACE!

I don't get paid for this stuff, Nerd does, let's hope he's a wide boy.

Why get angry? You're preaching to the choir. I get you. Poser is better. I agree. But DAZ creates far better content. I would love it if the native content in Poser was equal. But it ain't. Not even close. Both are businesses. Both want and need profit. I get that too. Here's what I argue.... If SM/Poser included far better native content with the purchase of Poser, there'd be far less of a threat from third party content providers. Then again, if Poser included far better content with a Poser purchase, then it might make third party content creators not want to create content. It's a tough line to draw.

I love Poser. I love DAZ's characters. I love them both. I want both products and software to succeed. How do we make all this work? IDN. I really don't. What I do sense is that both companies need each other. And they seem to strive to make their products compatible. If SM/Poser gave us better content/characters, it would be an enhancement, not competition. We'd have more choices which would  be better. The community of users would have more to choose from. OK, fine. They my not choose V+ as often, but V+ would still be a very desirable and compelling option. As would whatever SM/Poser's native and far improved native character options would be. I love choices. I want more of them. That's why my wish list in Renderosity is so long. Give me choices. You won't die. You'll in fact thrive.

Why get angry? You're preaching to the choir. I get you. Poser is better. I agree. But DAZ creates far better content. I would love it if the native content in Poser was equal. But it ain't. Not even close. Both are businesses. Both want and need profit. I get that too. Here's what I argue.... If SM/Poser included far better native content with the purchase of Poser, there'd be far less of a threat from third party content providers. Then again, if Poser included far better content with a Poser purchase, then it might make third party content creators not want to create content. It's a tough line to draw.

I love Poser. I love DAZ's characters. I love them both. I want both products and software to succeed. How do we make all this work? IDN. I really don't. What I do sense is that both companies need each other. And they seem to strive to make their products compatible. If SM/Poser gave us better content/characters, it would be an enhancement, not competition. We'd have more choices which would  be better. The community of users would have more to choose from. OK, fine. They my not choose V+ as often, but V+ would still be a very desirable and compelling option. As would whatever SM/Poser's native and far improved native character options would be. I love choices. I want more of them. That's why my wish list in Renderosity is so long. Give me choices. You won't die. You'll in fact thrive.

No one has ever bought Poser for the content (unless it's the new folks that are buying GameDev.)  Daz doesn't need Poser users anymore - they have gotten themselves a completely new customer base.  As far as the Poser userbase - we have options - keep using legacy figures whether it is DAZ figures or good ones, use figures that are designed to work with Poser 9+, force the genesis figures into Poser, or my favorite - all of the above.  Like you, I like choices.

What very few people here seem to grasp is that each company has a different business model.  DAZ is a content brokerage that dabbles (poorly) in software - they sell razor blades.  SM is a software house that dabbles (poorly) in content - they sell tool kits.  SM has been steadily adding features to the software that allow us to repurpose our content and retrofit new technology into legacy content, thus increasing the value of the content we already own (not to mention saving money for things that are more important than that 73rd version of a corset for Vicky - like the next version of Poser).  Of course, to take advantage of that, the enduser has to get out of the Poser 4 workflow, but once they do, well, the sky is the limit.

I gotta disagree with the "DAZ makes better content".  The quality of what is being made has been steadily going downhill over the past few years IMO.  I have content (mostly clothes) that were made a decade ago that are better that what is currently rolling out of DAZ today.  Have you noticed that most of the clothing content no longer has movement morphs?  Good lord, we had that back in the Gen 3 era.  Then there is the fact that there is less & less variety of clothing.  Victoria 3, Sydney & Miki have a wider variety of clothing than the DAZ Gen2 figures.

As far as figures, they have gotten less useful as well, especially from a TCO perspective.  From Gen 2 to Gen 4, all one needed was the base figure and the head & body morphs.  The cost of the figures as gone up by about 50%, because now we need the base figure, the ++ head & body morphs & then all of the additional "base" figures (at $30 - $45 apiece).  And they all have different UV maps, which means I can't move 1 skin texture from 1 figure to another.  And don't get me going on all of the Caucasianized non-white characters I.e. very few of the Asian (or any other characters) have black eyes, for instance - but almost all of them have blue eyes, WTF?).

I have the most cost-effective, genius idea ever for sorting the figure situation out quite easily, but like I said, I don't get paid.
If SM wanna write me out a gift for ten grand, I'll point it out to them.

Of course they won't do that, but all that means is they'll waste even more money getting it all wrong again :-D

No one has ever bought Poser for the content (unless it's the new folks that are buying GameDev.)  Daz doesn't need Poser users anymore - they have gotten themselves a completely new customer base.  As far as the Poser userbase - we have options - keep using legacy figures whether it is DAZ figures or good ones, use figures that are designed to work with Poser 9+, force the genesis figures into Poser, or my favorite - all of the above.  Like you, I like choices.

What very few people here seem to grasp is that each company has a different business model.  DAZ is a content brokerage that dabbles (poorly) in software - they sell razor blades.  SM is a software house that dabbles (poorly) in content - they sell tool kits.  SM has been steadily adding features to the software that allow us to repurpose our content and retrofit new technology into legacy content, thus increasing the value of the content we already own (not to mention saving money for things that are more important than that 73rd version of a corset for Vicky - like the next version of Poser).  Of course, to take advantage of that, the enduser has to get out of the Poser 4 workflow, but once they do, well, the sky is the limit.

I gotta disagree with the "DAZ makes better content".  The quality of what is being made has been steadily going downhill over the past few years IMO.  I have content (mostly clothes) that were made a decade ago that are better that what is currently rolling out of DAZ today.  Have you noticed that most of the clothing content no longer has movement morphs?  Good lord, we had that back in the Gen 3 era.  Then there is the fact that there is less & less variety of clothing.  Victoria 3, Sydney & Miki have a wider variety of clothing than the DAZ Gen2 figures.

As far as figures, they have gotten less useful as well, especially from a TCO perspective.  From Gen 2 to Gen 4, all one needed was the base figure and the head & body morphs.  The cost of the figures as gone up by about 50%, because now we need the base figure, the ++ head & body morphs & then all of the additional "base" figures (at $30 - $45 apiece).  And they all have different UV maps, which means I can't move 1 skin texture from 1 figure to another.  And don't get me going on all of the Caucasianized non-white characters I.e. very few of the Asian (or any other characters) have black eyes, for instance - but almost all of them have blue eyes, WTF?).

Are you guys doing this again? Seriously. Here's the deal since you guys are "bashing to make yourselves feel better": Ssybryan is correct on the first paragraph. DAZ doesn't need Poser no longer as they have their new customer base. Also the while Poser users are debating and bashing, while the software hasn't been innovating... and adding features to convert 3rd party content because vendors can't be bothered with poser native figures isn't innovation, it's resigning to their own fate they created... poser users simply haven't been buying. Guess where users have been buying instead? It's that company you insist on derailing every thread with bashing.   Tying it back to the survey, one thing SM misses once again is addressing needs of the content developers, the ones that make... or used to make your content. DAZ simply makes the best software for content developers. That's why their figures are so good, that's why Genesis 2 content is now popping up on every site, now including RDNA and there's push on those sites for their vendors to open up DAZ Studio and learn it because now they can't get by without making their items for DS users. It's also why now more DS items are no longer including Poser support, especially in light of Iray being the new default rendering engine. 

Also on the movement morphs, there's been a few items that have movement morphs. The new Antfarm mech suit has a body suit underneath that have movement morphs, drop morphs and floor prop morphs... for both the male AND female. Pays to actually look at the store content before you are quickly proven wrong with something that released yesterday. Finally on that faulty TCO perspective: Gen 2 to Gen 4 had one figure base, true.. but those clothes couldn't easily be shared, nor new shapes added, no teens... Genesis 1 and 2.. are capable of sharing clothes.. there went your TCO argument. Adding custom creatures like the once from Rawart and Antfarm that can also wear those items... more savings on clothing.  Skins... yes there a different UV maps, but vendors aren't locked into them and you can pull over your Gen4 skins too. Lower TCO again. Then Lee 6... dude his default eyes are dark.  Then a bunch of asian characters released with him. Then Mei Lin for the girls, last month you had black male and female released.. a specialty characters to counter your Caucasian argument. I don't think you actually look at the site before you post, you're just making up stuff you imagined to go with your cut-n-paste responses you use over and over. A little reality wouldn't hurt you or anyone else thinks Poser is so much better that you can't help bashing DAZ to make you believe it. Hope you guys put realistic responses on that survey. I did. ;)

"I gotta disagree with the "DAZ makes better content"

Maybe I should have phrased that a bit differently. I should have said "characters" instead. As for the clothing/hair/accessories available in DAZ's marketplace, most of that seems to have been created for the various V + M generations by third party venders. My own experience with that stuff is, especially with Genesis 2 characters, the aftermarket clothing seems to conform quite nicely between the various DAZ characters and I've also noticed that now many of those items are V+M4 as well as Genesis 2 compatible.

As I said previously, I got into this kind of out of curiosity and my use of both the software and the content is merely as a dilettante so my experience is probably not as extensive as most of the other posters here. I think I downloaded a trial version of Poser after stumbling across it and just wanted to know what it was. Jessie was the first character I ever tried to pose and that was only because it was included with Poser and I'd never heard of DAZ or it's stable of characters so my experience using this content probably isn't as extensive as most of the other posters here. But from my own experience use DAZ's characters from V3 through Genesis 2 is that compatibility and conformity props, hair and clothing has gotten far easier and better.

I seldom use Studio but when I do, I find myself craving the user interface of Poser and since I routinely bypass Poser's rendering engine for LuxRender, whether or not Studio's rendering engine is better or worse or just different really isn't an issue for me. But it's easy to understand why DAZ figures might render better in Studio. After all, why wouldn't DAZ make a rendering engine dialed in for their characters? They'd be crazy not to.

Maybe what we're seeing in the relationship between SM/Poser and DAZ 3D is a little like what happened a couple of guys named Gates and Allen realized that selling the software to run personal computers was going to be a lot more profitable that make and selling the hardware. DAZ is a little like Microsoft in that regard altho I'd argue their products relatively speaking are much better than Microsoft's (I'm a Mac guy through and through but let's not get started on that). Poser is the IBM equivalent - still in business and still profitable, still in the Fortune 500 but long ago bypassed by Microsoft in total value et al.

"The reason I said iClone is Poser's biggest threat, is because iClone is Poser's biggest threat."

Wrong ......  Sorry but just ....Wrong.

I conservatively estimate that less than 10 percent ( likely %5 or less,) of the current poser user base is interested in making complex character animation of any kind.

Start a thread here on animation and you shall find the same crowd

posting/commenting in it.

"wolf359" ,"Daleb"..Maybe "Mikemoss" and that other guy.

the overwhelming majority of the poser online community

are still renderers.

Iclone is for animators.

the default render in Iclone is garage!!( but animatiors dont care as we dont render deliverables in IClone)

yes they now have an OPTIONAL plugin to send Iclone scenes to indigo

for people with tricked out ,uber gaming graphics hardware.

but thier primary Market are users who will be sending retargeted animation DATA

out to thier preffered CG app rigs &rendering pipelines.

Poser alone is for still render artists

"Firelfy" is fairly decent at "portrait making" and subsurface skin

and poser transmapped hair.

Poser has several options to render in other physicaly correct, external render engines both paid and free.

and many of these will run on basic consumer graphics hardware well enough for a still render at least.

Iclone has Zero advantage over poser when it comes to rendering a still.

The Direct competitor for poser is DAZ Studio.

I dont understand how you can dismiss this Obvious reality

based only on your personal preference for that silly kindergarden "Kai Kraus"

Poser interface from the early 1990's

You say people will never migrate to DS and have to learn that "awful" DS interface.

While endlessly banging on about how EVERYONE will soon be using blender.

I must wonder how is it  that you think that DS interface is not usable

yet you claim to use the unreal game dev program "everyday"

and you have Pixoligic Zbrush,gimp and you are apparently a linux pro as well.

I wont make silly, gratuitous predictions about wether poser users will migrate to Daz studio....I dont bloody care 

Forget "genesis" for the moment

and the nonlinear animation system

and the native internal PBR that puts DS on par with Maxwell,Vray,Mental Ray et al.

DAZ studio supports more existing ,legacy,poser native content& formats than any program on earth.

So any Migration to DS would be far more attractive for the Still image Majority

that any appeal of Iclone.

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I personally want Poser to properly, natively, import the DSON format, and actually implement the Opensubdiv (Pixar Subdiv) format. 

It would save me significant work. LOL.