I want to use Scarlet. I paid for her, and I have spent the better part of two days trying to make content for her. I don't only want to use her, I want to support her with free content. I wanted her to be "Poser as it was meant to be". I want the clothing to "just work". I would have bought clothing with the figure, but the clothes included in the release bundle won't be useful to me, so I have to make some. I also want the clothing I make to "just work." The promotional text says that she is creator-supported, and there are lots of add-on items ready to be released, and these will be fed into the store over the next few weeks. Before I purchase any of that, I want to see if the creator support extends to addressing the issues with the base figure that have been raised here. Possibly more issues will be raised. 

I found issues with the join between the hand and forearm that show up in pre-made poses that come with the figure, and that definitely show up in renders. They were immediately obvious to me. The promotional text and videos emphasise how much care and testing went into the figure. It doesn't add up.

I was also a little "gushy" when I had just bought her, but one has to be realistic. Even a freebie maker doesn't want to waste her time on making content for a figure that is not going to be used. There needs to be some positive energy around a figure, some enthusiasm, some give and take, others making free items as well, generating the goodwill that makes one want to create free content. 

Doesn't matter what a Vendor make, add ons, characters, figures, clothes, Merchants Resources. 

It seems that the work gone into something so many times goes unappreciated, instead of patience on something that's only been available a few days this thread has turned into a beat down of the skills of a person who has feelings. 

I'm not going to say Scarlett is perfect but has any figure been when first released, there's usually service releases after or updates.  

This community shouldn't be bashing him but trying to encourage improvements or updates to the figure, honestly if i read this as the vendor in question i'd say stuff ya and walk away.  Look into your own hearts on how you'd feel to be on receiving end of a lot of whats been said because honestly I wouldn't like it personally. 

There's errors, ok fine fair enough, but point them out nicely, be polite in criticism because you don't know what goes on in that person's offline life any more than they do yours. 

Just my penny's worth of thoughts on this. I'm nobody to you guys but i'm somebody to others, so is Sixus1 

I think the problem is that a flawed product is presented, and before people can point out the flaws and suggest ways to fix, other people start raving about how "OMG it's the best ever!" and "It's perfect, better than anything out there". The percieved anger about the flaws is most likely originally aimed at the people who are thus praising a flawed or broken product, not the creator, but tone and intent are impossible to read on the internet. And when the flaws ARE pointed out, others will often claim they aren't flaws, or "you don't see them when rendered", which is patently (and provably) untrue.

Ah, so it's all my fault for not jumping on the bash wagon, eh?  I mostly DON'T see the flaws when rendered. And unless you can find a way to see through my eyes, there is absolutely no way you can prove that I do. All you can claim is that I'm lying. If that's what you're insinuating, then at least have the guts to say it outright, please.

Those long tris usually come from automatc 3D generation software. Feed some pictures, and let the software create the obj file. => That's what ya get.

More likely Boolean modeling with automated elimination of N-Gons. 

I don't think this thread has been particularly hostile. People have a right to critique a figure or product they paid good money for, and if those critiques are angry then there's a reason for that.

The hostility in the community overall is something that's been frustrating to me for quite a while now, but I can't do anything about it because the PTB won't let me. So as long as people aren't killing each other, this is pretty much the way it is. It's also a big reason why most content artists/vendors avoid the forums these days.

Constructive criticism is always better than outright bashing for the sake of bashing. I don't think I've spotted any direct attacks on Sixus1's character as a person. Negative reviews are part of the game and require a thick skin. Having people tell you it's good when it's really not, just to spare your feelings doesn't help you or anybody else. If you (and I mean you in general here - not anyone in particular), can't handle your work being called crap when it's crap then you need to find a different job, and any studio will tell you that. And I'm not saying Scarlet is crap - I haven't touched her. I don't think she is, she just has some issues. There are other figures out there that really are crap. Some of them exist in everyone's Poser runtime.

Well, Valandar insinuates that I'm lying -- though why I'd do that, he doesn't say. I guess I'm just basically a dishonest person or something. LOL. But, you know, insinuations... surely "he didn't mean it that way", right? However, I do take issue with the "release a piece of shit" and "ripping people off" statement by shvrdavid. To accuse someone of ripping people off is a direct attack on that vendor's character. And "piece of shit" is outright hostile language. If those things are acceptable -- and the former is actually legal grounds for a defamation suit -- then just about anything is.

Edit: When you insult someone in the forums, you may hurt their feelings. When you bash a vendor, you're hurting his feelings and his livelihood. If he has a lawyer, he could get the forum shut down.

I don't think this thread has been particularly hostile. People have a right to critique a figure or product they paid good money for, and if those critiques are angry then there's a reason for that.

The hostility in the community overall is something that's been frustrating to me for quite a while now, but I can't do anything about it because the PTB won't let me. So as long as people aren't killing each other, this is pretty much the way it is. It's also a big reason why most content artists/vendors avoid the forums these days.

Constructive criticism is always better than outright bashing for the sake of bashing. I don't think I've spotted any direct attacks on Sixus1's character as a person. Negative reviews are part of the game and require a thick skin. Having people tell you it's good when it's really not, just to spare your feelings doesn't help you or anybody else. If you (and I mean you in general here - not anyone in particular), can't handle your work being called crap when it's crap then you need to find a different job, and any studio will tell you that. And I'm not saying Scarlet is crap - I haven't touched her. I don't think she is, she just has some issues. There are other figures out there that really are crap. Some of them exist in everyone's Poser runtime.

Well, Valandar insinuates that I'm lying -- though why I'd do that, he doesn't say. I guess I'm just basically a dishonest person or something. LOL. But, you know, insinuations... surely "he didn't mean it that way", right? However, I do take issue with the "release a piece of shit" and "ripping people off" statement by shvrdavid. To accuse someone of ripping people off is a direct attack on that vendor's character. And "piece of shit" is outright hostile language. If those things are acceptable -- and the former is actually legal grounds for a defamation suit -- then just about anything is.

Edit: When you insult someone in the forums, you may hurt their feelings. When you bash a vendor, you're hurting his feelings and his livelihood. If he has a lawyer, he could get the forum shut down.

Well if you are lying then I guess I am as well because I do not see a lot of the problems in the renders either.  OK I had to run the the figure through a few scripts alike SceneFixer and EZskin, I have switched on subdevision and the GC is an annoyance for me but that does not make her unusable even in this form.  To tell you the truth I have even had some fun playing with the figure to try a see what can be done.  I am not gushing and I accept that there are issues and the promo was maybe not reflective of reality but then few promos are.  If people really feel cheated then I think they should be given an refund and I can understand them becoming irate but then it is not the vendor refusing the refund. I have hated the DAZ - SM wars that have raged over the past few years as I do not think it helps the community one bit, but they are big companies no-one there is really going to get upset.  That is not the same here, the target is a couple of individuals who are no doubt proud of the efforts so far, just like my renders I know they are far from perfect but that does not mean I am not proud of them.  While the tone of the thread my not be very different from others the fact that it is individual vendors in the firing line changes it for me.  Sad to say I think we have sunk to a new low here and to think when I started the thread I thought the worse that could happen is it could turn into the usual DAZ/SM bun fight, how wrong can you be.

Quote: I totally agree, Even after spending hours trying to morph Roxie in the faceroom, she still looks like a psychopathic killer with flat eyes and a very limited range of expressions.

Really?

Well Scarlett looks indeed quite nice in upper body renders, I do like her face. It is only the hip/thigh part, that has issues, that is not bashing, it is a fact

For those that are enjoying using her, maybe you could counter some of the negativity with posting some nice renders of Scarlet here in this thread. Maybe that will help steer the conversation in a more positive direction.

Yes, I called the Figure a piece of crap, So be it, that is my opinion based on my level of modeling and rigging.

Saying that I should have presented myself differently is sort of odd considering I am the only person that even offered to fix it. No one else has unless I missed it.

But whatever. "Kinda goes away when rendered" is obviously good enough for some people, but it is not for me.

Maybe there will be an update, is conjecture. The creator has not responded, so no ones knows if it will even get updated.

Ahh, misunderstanding, see, My picture shows Roxie. ;)

I totally agree, Even after spending hours trying to morph Roxie in the faceroom, she still looks like a psychopathic killer with flat eyes and a very limited range of expressions. (This may well be my lack of skill, but a figure that is easier to use is better for me, in my mind,) A certain person has made a reputation working with those characteristics (aka: girl with blade). And good for him. But it's not really my thing. However, given her superior mesh and rigging in the places where it really counts, I'll definitely keep her in mind should I develop an odd penchant for rendering extreme closeups of girls' buttcracks.

So your response is to basically say "well, the figure I bought is better than the figure you bought because I said so" eh? Way to do your typical passive aggressive bullshit to further the fighting!

lol nvm. prolly shouldn't post that...

Yes, I called the Figure a piece of crap, So be it, that is my opinion based on my level of modeling and rigging.

Saying that I should have presented myself differently is sort of odd considering I am the only person that even offered to fix it. No one else has unless I missed it...

My comment was intended as a general observation, and wasn't pointing out anyone in particular.  I apologize if you took it that way; Perhaps I should have worded it differently.
And, as I said, it goes both ways; minimizing obvious flaws just leads to arguments...

Pretty much everything leads to arguments around here. No one knows how to play nice.

I think that the tone of the criticism is a natural response to the rather lofty claims made in the promotional blurb. If you beat your chest and tell people she's "Poser as it was meant to be", "a rock solid figure" six years in the making, developed by industry professionals, with clothing that "just works" etc, etc, and she turns out to have more than her fair share of fundamental flaws, you'd better be prepared for a lot of booing and hissing from the pitchfork-wielding mob.

Quote:

I think that the tone of the criticism is a natural response to the rather lofty claims made in the promotional blurb. If you beat your chest and tell people she's "Poser as it was meant to be", "a rock solid figure" six years in the making, developed by industry professionals, with clothing that "just works" etc, etc, and she turns out to have more than her fair share of fundamental flaws, you'd better be prepared for a lot of booing and hissing from the pitchfork-wielding mob.

It has been the same with Dawn.

Exactly. Never over promise. You will shoot yourself in the foot if you cannot back it up. 

shvrdavid, I only commented because I was surprised by your comments.

I realize you were disappointed in your purchase.  I believe your comments are justified.  I just take exception to the vehemence with which they are delivered toward Sixus.

I believe part of your anger should be directed at Renderosity itself as that's where part of the problem exists, rather than JUST with Sixus.  If you look closely at the promo images, it's clear there are problems with the figure in EVERY SINGLE promo.  Ankle breaks, left thigh protrusions, polygon distortion in raised arms, shoes that don't even come close to fitting, and on and on and on. 

I personally take exception to the Sixus "what Poser was meant to be" claim as it appears from this figure that Poser was meant to be absolute junk.

But, I'm a bit surprised after working with you on AntoniaWM and V4WM to see you dish out the abuse we were subjected to on both of those projects.  You KNOW how discouraging this can be to the folks who busted ass to get the project done.  So much so that no further projects will EVER be undertaken.

Is that the solution you wish?  Isn't that where this always leads?  Yet another group of artists to just throw in the towel and quit making Poser content at all?

Traci, have you looked at the weight mapping in the character?

And believe me I am not to happy with Rendo either, but this is a thread about Scarlet.

If everyone thinks I should just take a back seat on this, I don't know what to tell you.

This is the first time I have been so harsh on something, and if you can not see why so be it.

Traci, have you looked at the weight mapping in the character?

And believe me I am not to happy with Rendo either, but this is a thread about Scarlet.

If everyone thinks I should just take a back seat on this, I don't know what to tell you.

This is the first time I have been so harsh on something, and if you can not see why so be it.

I DO see why.  I get it.  I agree with you.
I'm just asking what outcome you wish to see?  And how we can get there.

@Moriador
Just so you know, when Roxie sees that comment of yours, she'll be over the bloody moon!

Some people knock Roxie, but what they don't seem to realise is just how lean she is on polycount, I mean compare her to Scarlet for example, blimey (although I'm not knocking Scarlet, and my only comment about her was a compliment).  But at the time Roxie was added to Runtime, there was also Subdivision, and Roxie is perfect for making use of it, people should learn to switch it on!

And anyway, you can't blame "Girl With Blade" for being psychopathic, she's just the Roxie I have in my own Runtime, and yes, she absolutely is psychopathic, it's just the way she is, but there are other Roxies besides her.  Look at Timberwolf's Roxie, blimey, they don't get any "sweeter" than the morphs and renders he does with her!

@Timberwolf
Nice work as usual, I love the stuff you do with Roxie, and every time someone posts a good image or morph of her, it's further proof that the only problem here, is SM, for not allowing Teyon time enough to create a good set of default morphs for her.  I think Roxie is a good, lean figure, and she's easy the most human-looking in the Runtime as far as I'm concerned.

Traci, have you looked at the weight mapping in the character?

And believe me I am not to happy with Rendo either, but this is a thread about Scarlet.

If everyone thinks I should just take a back seat on this, I don't know what to tell you.

This is the first time I have been so harsh on something, and if you can not see why so be it.

I DO see why.  I get it.  I agree with you.
I'm just asking what outcome you wish to see?  And how we can get there.

I offered to rig a symmetrical wire frame, what more do you want? Yes I put conditions on it, but I am allowed to do that as well. Unless everyone thinks otherwise.

If that is the case, Let someone else rig it.

I totally agree, Even after spending hours trying to morph Roxie in the faceroom, she still looks like a psychopathic killer with flat eyes and a very limited range of expressions. (This may well be my lack of skill, but a figure that is easier to use is better for me, in my mind,) A certain person has made a reputation working with those characteristics (aka: girl with blade). And good for him. But it's not really my thing. However, given her superior mesh and rigging in the places where it really counts, I'll definitely keep her in mind should I develop an odd penchant for rendering extreme closeups of girls' buttcracks.

So your response is to basically say "well, the figure I bought is better than the figure you bought because I said so" eh? Way to do your typical passive aggressive bullshit to further the fighting!

My typical passive aggressive bullshit? So -- I refuse to bash a new figure and that makes me passive aggressive. Okay. This is what's wrong with the forum. It's not the coding. It's this:

If you don't bash, you're gushing.

If you don't gush, you're bashing.

The only acceptable thing to do is insult people.

And how many people who have problems with this figure have attempted to contact Sixus1 directly, I wonder.

Usually professionals prefer to work things out among themselves privately when there are problems, and it only becomes a public bashfest when those problems cannot be worked out. A day after release does not seem like a long enough time for the figure creator to even try to fix the problems, and yet already they've been painted as dishonest, incompetent, and fraudulent. It's disgusting.

It's a pitty with Scarlett, because she has quite a nice shape right ot of the box. Not every figure has that. Even Roxie needed lots of touch ups.

People who knock Roxie or doubt what a good figure she is, should stop playing with Vickies for a while and visit this guy's gallery:
Click Here for some really nice Roxies.

Fact is, Roxie is right, you're a "bunch of dumbasses" that are so far up Vickie's arse, you haven't even noticed what a cool figure entered the Runtime and is staring you right in the face!  You're too busy arguing about Genesis that is made by a competing company.  Meantime, poor Roxie is having to kill-off Vickies just because the "Poser" users still think they need "DAZ" figures!  So here's a challenge for you all, get off your asses and load-up a Roxie, and instead of mocking perfectly fine Poser figures, try supporting the figure that is part of the Runtime of your program of choice.

She's been trying to get this through to you all for almost two years now.
Don't forget to CLICK that gallery!

For those that are enjoying using her, maybe you could counter some of the negativity with posting some nice renders of Scarlet here in this thread. Maybe that will help steer the conversation in a more positive direction.

No. I'll just get accused of gushing. Fuck that. This community has shown its true character. As, it seems, has Renderosity. If SIxus1 releases more stuff on their own website, I'll be interested. But I'm done with this MP and this site.

I totally agree, Even after spending hours trying to morph Roxie in the faceroom, she still looks like a psychopathic killer with flat eyes and a very limited range of expressions. (This may well be my lack of skill, but a figure that is easier to use is better for me, in my mind,) A certain person has made a reputation working with those characteristics (aka: girl with blade). And good for him. But it's not really my thing. However, given her superior mesh and rigging in the places where it really counts, I'll definitely keep her in mind should I develop an odd penchant for rendering extreme closeups of girls' buttcracks.

So your response is to basically say "well, the figure I bought is better than the figure you bought because I said so" eh? Way to do your typical passive aggressive bullshit to further the fighting!

My typical passive aggressive bullshit? So -- I refuse to bash a new figure and that makes me passive aggressive. Okay. This is what's wrong with the forum. It's not the coding. It's this:

If you don't bash, you're gushing.

If you don't gush, you're bashing.

The only acceptable thing to do is insult people.

You set out to bait pumeco.  And you did. Success!

People who knock Roxie or doubt what a good figure she is, should stop playing with Vickies for a while and visit this guy's gallery:
Click Here for some really nice Roxies.

Fact is, Roxie is right, you're a "bunch of dumbasses" that are so far up Vickie's arse, you haven't even noticed what a cool figure entered the Runtime and is staring you right in the face!  You're too busy arguing about Genesis that is made by a competing company.  Meantime, poor Roxie is having to kill-off Vickies just because the "Poser" users still think they need "DAZ" figures!  So here's a challenge for you all, get off your asses and load-up a Roxie, and instead of mocking perfectly fine Poser figures, try supporting the figure that is part of the Runtime of your program of choice.

She's been trying to get this through to you all for almost two years now.
Don't forget to CLICK that gallery!

Figures are much like 3d software folks use, or 3d render engines they prefer. Tis one of those goldilocks points that each person has when it comes to such things. She's to ugly, her shoulders are to big, she is just right, blah blah blah. To use a real world analogy, your driving down the road at 55, the speed limit is 50, some guy passes you at 60, to fast, someone is going 50, to slow. :) Same goes for this stuff, you find a figure that works for you and love it... others don't cause of this or that... folks like Roxie run with it. Don't like Roxie then that is fine to ... I personally worked with Roxie a bit didn't find her to my taste or usable for my purposes. I'll revisit it her again I am sure as I do that periodically... I use just about every figure eventually or in some manner and work with them... but I'm an odd ball I don't really get fully wedded to anything.... I just use what is required for a project. In the end I'm fairly objective about figure usage, seen great stuff in about every figure that I've played with, and seen not so great stuff. Folks just have to accept folks don't have the same preferences and also see both the good and bad about a figure... but tis human nature to accentuate the negative or the positive depending upon the case and lose track of the other side.

I totally agree, Even after spending hours trying to morph Roxie in the faceroom, she still looks like a psychopathic killer with flat eyes and a very limited range of expressions. (This may well be my lack of skill, but a figure that is easier to use is better for me, in my mind,) A certain person has made a reputation working with those characteristics (aka: girl with blade). And good for him. But it's not really my thing. However, given her superior mesh and rigging in the places where it really counts, I'll definitely keep her in mind should I develop an odd penchant for rendering extreme closeups of girls' buttcracks.

So your response is to basically say "well, the figure I bought is better than the figure you bought because I said so" eh? Way to do your typical passive aggressive bullshit to further the fighting!

My typical passive aggressive bullshit? So -- I refuse to bash a new figure and that makes me passive aggressive. Okay. This is what's wrong with the forum. It's not the coding. It's this:

If you don't bash, you're gushing.

If you don't gush, you're bashing.

The only acceptable thing to do is insult people.

You set out to bait pumeco.  And you did. Success!

1. I pointed out that I am personally not skilled enough to do much with Roxie. Did you miss that part? It's in the quote.2. I thought Pumeco was proud of Roxie being a psychopathic blade wielding bad ass. So I thought -- especially in context of me saying it was probably my lack of skill with Roxie -- he would take it as a compliment. Mea culpa. 

2. I also pointed out that Scarlet was better for ME for MY PURPOSES. I didn't say Roxie was a pile of shit. Or that other people wouldn't be able to use her successfully. I didn't even imply it. Because she isn't and they do.

And yet for some reason, I'm the bad guy for actually DARING to like a product -- sold here -- because it isn't on the official list of forum sanctioned Poser figures. And Renderosity lets this vendor bashfest continue despite the fact that it is going to drive away their customers.

Go figure.

@Moriador
Woah, you misuderstood me but I'm happy to take the blame for it this time.  My post wasn't aimed at you (notice I never addressed anyone specific for that post).  I was just speaking in general terms.  But I can see how it looks like I was replying to you specifically, so please accept my apologies, I'm sorry about that.  Don't know what Glitterati's problem is though, maybe she can't read.  The only thing I've said about Scarlet was a compliment about how the shoulders were handled!

@Glitterati
Sorry, but you can't blame me for the general behaviour of people when heated figure discussions take place!

@CreativeGuy
True, but there's definitely a Vickie suck-up thing going on.  Can you imagine, if every Poser user suddenly gave Roxie a chance, used the Morph Brush to change whatever they wish, people started using her more, more and more morphs would appear for her, and that in turn would create more Roxie users and less Vickie users - a knock-on effect.  But while everyone is busy supporting figures from the competition, that doesn't happen.

I think everyone needs to relax and go watch some youtube comedy or go get some fresh air or something for a bit. Things are starting to sound like personal attacks.

Stop with the personal attacks.

@Moriador
Woah, you misuderstood me but I'm happy to take the blame for it this time.  My post wasn't aimed at you (notice I never addressed anyone specific for that post).  I was just speaking in general terms.  But I can see how it looks like I was replying to you specifically, so please accept my apologies, I'm sorry about that.  Don't know what Glitterati's problem is though, maybe she can't read.  The only thing I've said about Scarlet was a compliment about how the shoulders were handled!

@Glitterati
Sorry, but you can't blame me for the general behaviour of people when heated figure discussions take place!

@CreativeGuy
True, but there's definitely a Vickie suck-up thing going on.  Can you imagine, if every Poser user suddenly gave Roxie a chance, used the Morph Brush to change whatever they wish, people started using her more, more and more morphs would appear for her, and that in turn would create more Roxie users and less Vickie users - a knock-on effect.  But while everyone is busy supporting figures from the competition, that doesn't happen.

I didn't read most of your post as directed to me, actually, except the part that you clearly labelled as to me. Which is why I didn't think I needed to explain myself to you. My reply was meant for Glitterati. But of course, I can see why you'd read it as meant for you as well. Well, tbh, Glitterati did put a doubt in my mind as to how you might have taken my comment, and I was ready to apologize if you indicated that you interpreted it other than in the spirit that I meant it. When you said, "Roxie will be over the moon!" I took that to mean that she was beaming at my comment. Because, well, why wouldn't she? :) And your remarks about Scarlet have been totally reasonable, in my opinion.

@Moriador
Woah, you misuderstood me but I'm happy to take the blame for it this time.  My post wasn't aimed at you (notice I never addressed anyone specific for that post).  I was just speaking in general terms.  But I can see how it looks like I was replying to you specifically, so please accept my apologies, I'm sorry about that.  Don't know what Glitterati's problem is though, maybe she can't read.  The only thing I've said about Scarlet was a compliment about how the shoulders were handled!

@Glitterati
Sorry, but you can't blame me for the general behaviour of people when heated figure discussions take place!

@CreativeGuy
True, but there's definitely a Vickie suck-up thing going on.  Can you imagine, if every Poser user suddenly gave Roxie a chance, used the Morph Brush to change whatever they wish, people started using her more, more and more morphs would appear for her, and that in turn would create more Roxie users and less Vickie users - a knock-on effect.  But while everyone is busy supporting figures from the competition, that doesn't happen.

Interesting in theory, i am not adept at the morph brush yet, I have timelines on my projects so not usually built in. I want to learn me up though ... though ZB might be where I go but not everyone has that option. I don't have uber mojo skills yet to do self service on many of the SM provided models. I can't build all my own content and in my case time is money. Now eventually I'll get to the level of being able to do all of these things to my own personal standards... so far I suck at morph brush but I keep on trying :) The inertia your dealing with is that like her or not V4 has a plethora of content out there. That folks can drag and drop etc with relative ease ... call it the lazy bear effect :) ... You don't necessarily need EVERY poser user to do so you need a good group of vendors and the like to do so and pave the way... which is really the trick of all of that and why many of these figures just simply fail. In any event good talk.

@Moriador
No worries, and yup, you can bet Roxie will be very pleased that you see her as a "Psychopathic Blade-Wilding Badass" - that's what I meant.
She's out culling Vickies at the moment, but I get the feeling I'm in for a whole week of superiority-strutting when she gets back :-D

That comment of yours will make her bloody year, nevermind day!

True, but there's definitely a Vickie suck-up thing going on.  Can you imagine, if every Poser user suddenly gave Roxie a chance, used the Morph Brush to change whatever they wish, people started using her more, more and more morphs would appear for her, and that in turn would create more Roxie users and less Vickie users - a knock-on effect.  But while everyone is busy supporting figures from the competition, that doesn't happen.

It's not about a Vickie suck-up. It's about having a figure that is at least as versatile, if not better than V4, which is nearly 10 years old now, and so far none of them have achieved that. At least not on a community-wide scale. Don't want to start any mud slinging there. I know different folks have their own recently added favorites.
Roxie would be a much better figure if she had more geometry to work with. Especially in the face. Or at the very least if the geometry she does have was laid out better in order to allow for proper muscle flow and bony landmarks. As it is, she is not very easy to morph well, and takes a lot of patience to get to an acceptable level. The lack of geometry also limits the variety of morphs she can have and really does require working on her in an external modeling/sculpting app. If Poser's sub-d allowed for actual sculpting then that would be much better, but it doesn't, so it's really pretty much a pointless feature, because all it does is smooth out the morphs you do create. It doesn't allow any actual manipulation of the added geometry. I've been working on a full body resculpt of Roxie for quite some time, so I'm speaking from experience here.

True, but there's definitely a Vickie suck-up thing going on.  Can you imagine, if every Poser user suddenly gave Roxie a chance, used the Morph Brush to change whatever they wish, people started using her more, more and more morphs would appear for her, and that in turn would create more Roxie users and less Vickie users - a knock-on effect.  But while everyone is busy supporting figures from the competition, that doesn't happen.

It's not about a Vickie suck-up. It's about having a figure that is at least as versatile, if not better than V4, which is nearly 10 years old now, and so far none of them have achieved that. At least not on a community-wide scale. Don't want to start any mud slinging there. I know different folks have their own recently added favorites.
Roxie would be a much better figure if she had more geometry to work with. Especially in the face. Or at the very least if the geometry she does have was laid out better in order to allow for proper muscle flow and bony landmarks. As it is, she is not very easy to morph well, and takes a lot of patience to get to an acceptable level. The lack of geometry also limits the variety of morphs she can have and really does require working on her in an external modeling/sculpting app. If Poser's sub-d allowed for actual sculpting then that would be much better, but it doesn't, so it's really pretty much a pointless feature, because all it does is smooth out the morphs you do create. It doesn't allow any actual manipulation of the added geometry. I've been working on a full body resculpt of Roxie for quite some time, so I'm speaking from experience here.

Cool stuff, maybe we should split to a roxie thread as finding some interesting stuff in here and I'd like to learn more without being a detriment to the Scarlet thread here... good to know the good, bad, ugly, and awesome ...

@Shane
Honestly, I don't have a problem with her topology although I agree it's not always ideal, but no figure I've ever seen has been ideal.

@CreativeGuy
I sold my ZBrush recently.  I was just fed-up of the interface and I've been getting better stuff out of Blender anyway, so I don't need it.  And to be honest, even when I had it, I often prefered using Poser's built-in Morph Brush for almost everything, it's surprising how good it is once you get the hang of it, so yup, you should definitely have a play with that.  But I agree, this is starting to get OT so ...

Regards Scarlet, I think it's a nice effort (especially around the shoulders), but I think the mesh being pre-subdivided was kinda silly considering Poser now has Subdivision.  And while I understand what Shane was getting at there, the point is it still smooths-out the edges when doing renders etc, so I like the idea of a sensible poly-count that can be subdivided at will.  Roxie is way ahead in that respect, so I think them subdividing Scarlet like they did was a bad idea.

Anyway, I wish them well with her, I applaud anyone who attempts to enter this marketplace that is so Vickie-orientated.

As God is my witness they're not going to lick me. I'm going to live through this and when it's all over, I'll never be hungry again.

• Scarlet 

This is a puppy. It wants to play...

I think that people should play with puppies. I think they should play with puppies a lot. People who play a lot with puppies aren't easily upset and doesn't afraid of anything...

(In other words, if one is getting very incensed about this discussion, one should consider playing with a puppy in order to receive magical puppy goodness that can enable them to have interpersonal interactions without the threat of conflict.)

Quote Moriador: "In this community, it takes less than a day to go from reasonable to vile. If anything, anything were to persuade me to wave goodbye to Poser forever it would be this. Not the software features, not the figures, not the content, not the phone home activation in Game Dev, not the price, not the vendors -- but the community. I just don't want to be a part of it anymore.

And I expect I am far from alone in this feeling."

You aren't alone. I lurk more than comment now because of precisely this. Folks hide behind the "I speak honestly" or "I tell it like it is" but there is still a place for tact.

How about we talk about Scarlet and what we can do to help Sixus improve her, because I don't know about you guys, but I'm sick of V4 and i want something new, and although I will create content for DS users, I have no intention in stopping my use of Poser for my own personal artwork.

Constructive criticism is what we need, not "this product sucks". Why does it suck? 

Lets start with the crotch. I know nothing about rigging, but do you honestly think that if people are having an issue, Sixus is going to ignore you? No, they are awesome people. Message about this has ben passed on to them.

Lashes. Message about this has been passed on to them.

Boobs. Who complains about this? Do you like default V4s boobs? No you don't. Someone is bound to make some boobs for Scarlet.  

Last I checked, no one was rendering V4 sans morphs and with her default textures. Lets move forward with how we can get Scarlet to be our replacement for V4.

MR's from moi coming very soon. 

Scarlett's hi-res mesh is more an advantage, than a disadvantage. I like Roxie, but I wish her mesh was hi-res. How to make detailed morphs on a low-res mesh? Mesh density is defnitley a plus on Scarlett.

Hello, Rebekah of Sixus1 here.  Stopping in to give an update.  A service release for Scarlet is pending approval and will be available very soon.

Addressing concerns voiced by our customers we have made a few additions and a couple of changes to Scarlet. They are as follows:
1.) Joint Parameter / Skin Weights adjustments on the Hip/Thigh area

2.) Eyelashes - 2 morphs have been added for the top and bottom lashes for user preference adjustments on placement of the lashes & the Lengthen morph has been changed

3.) Scarlet's material settings have been changed to work better with the default Poser render settings regarding gamma correction

 
If you have ANY questions, concerns or comments, please don't hesitate to contact me.  Thank you for your support!  We have much more Scarlet products, packages, morphs, poses, kits, tutorials and resources coming...and if you have any requests please send them our way so that we know exactly what our users are looking for.

Woot woot!

Hello, Rebekah of Sixus1 here.  Stopping in to give an update.  A service release for Scarlet is pending approval and will be available very soon.

Addressing concerns voiced by our customers we have made a few additions and a couple of changes to Scarlet. They are as follows:
1.) Joint Parameter / Skin Weights adjustments on the Hip/Thigh area

2.) Eyelashes - 2 morphs have been added for the top and bottom lashes for user preference adjustments on placement of the lashes & the Lengthen morph has been changed

3.) Scarlet's material settings have been changed to work better with the default Poser render settings regarding gamma correction

 
If you have ANY questions, concerns or comments, please don't hesitate to contact me.  Thank you for your support!  We have much more Scarlet products, packages, morphs, poses, kits, tutorials and resources coming...and if you have any requests please send them our way so that we know exactly what our users are looking for.

What about a symmetrical mesh?

Serious question. 

Is the problem with the mesh just a matter of not being able to mirror morphs or is there another reason

I didn't get to morphs, I stopped when I discovered that you cant mirror the rigging on the legs. I was going to just rig my own version, but the mesh presents a problem.

Why re-rig?

So it will bend without crushing the mesh, etc. You can't even straiten out the forearm with the default rigging.

At this point I just want a symmetrical mesh. Everything you do when you build a figure depends on that or you have to make compromises at every step past that. 

I don't want a figure full of compromises because the foundation (mesh) has errors.

I am not going to go into further details, it will just be taken negatively.