Waiting for Poser 2016 PBR (physically based rendering engine)

I submit to you this puzzle.

I have never been able to do a decent rendering in these conditions.

If i don't learn to light this scene i'll go away from Poser.

This scene has inspired my post (https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2894079&page_number=2), unfortunately still groping in the dark.

I know that this type of scene is the worst to work with.

Surely among you there is more than one person who can do it well, these are the limits that you have to respect.

1 - Gamma Correction ON 2.2 2 - IDL (and / or the IBL if to give best result) 3 - None direct light sun in the room, sun is over the roof 4 - Only Poser Render Engine (yes firefly), external render engine are accepted only for demonstration 5 - No lights on the wall or roof (light bulbs to be clear) 6 - V4 skin must result on real final rendering (no burn etc) 7 - Do not change wall / floor / roof material color 8 - day External city skycrapers landscape visible outside

Here you can download the scene, everythings are obj, so there is no copywrite problem. DOWNLOAD_SCENE

Victoria 4.2 you must have high resolution and his skin You must have BB sphere

These things are in the scene, nothing else.

i think that i'm not the only one who want to learn how do these type of scene.

Thanks to everyone that will contribute.

PS i hope i'm not violating something on the TOS

Here a quick draft render using extremely low render settings.

Now you tell me what I did. => There is a hint left in the picture I uploaded.

1. The scene you uploaded is not the scene you showed. The light is coming from another direction.

2. Your issue is not with Firefly (that is doing a very good Job) but your issue is rendering OLD and obsolete material room nodes with newer render settings. => See the feet? => that is what the light blue in your Diffuse_Color is doing.

Use a node setup like above on V4 materials. => Remember to load the lashes at GC 1.000 and the color maps at GC 2.2

For the sphere use this setup. => Ambient at WHITE and value somewhere between 3 and 5. (Or follow BB's instructions, add a picture, and then play with his HSV node in his setup. )

As I wrote on the other site : Your issue is not with Firefly. You are rendering old node setups that use TONS of faking, (including that "sorry" stupid light blue) in a newer render engine that does not need that faking at all.

Any other render engine would give you the exact same result.

Your figure is in the shadow, and the figure is tinted light blue, and that darkens the figure more then required.

Hope this helps? Have a nice day.

To correct your issue? => Most of what I did was delete nodes that are no longer required.

Please remember to add the nudity tags to your images.

And if you want to play with the skin color, add a HSV node between Diffuse¨_Color and the texture. Here 2 examples, one more red, the other more yellow. => HUE => And you can change the Saturation and the Value too if you like. That's why it is called the H-S-V node.

Sorry Shane, my mistake. Thanks for adding them. ( It's been awhile I posted here. )

Oh, and see that I only use the Diffuse texture.

I use the Math_Functions node to create the greyscale map inside the material room. => Faster and less memory.... LOL.

Agree with most of what vilters has said. Xpdev. Did you model those props? If not it's almost certain that you are indeed violating someone's eula. The "don't worry, they're obj" in the context of redistribution rights is sorely misinformed.

render time 7 minutes. 12 bounces, IC=50, IDL samples = 1024.

ctrl-click to view full-size. increase bounces to 16, increase hsv to 64, increase samples to 4096, render with IC unchecked for better result. this may approximate time needed for similar result in PP2016 (3 - 5 hours).

it wouldn't allow me to add nudity tag on edit.

there was no cityscape scene in materials download, but it would be burnt out.

Many thanks tonyvilters and miss nancY I was not far away from good result as your guys. My mistake is that trying to correct skin issue, i add more and more lights or rendering setting.... So i lost the good way

Looking what you do on sky nodes, i ask myself if there is a reasonto use EzSkin.

It add a lost of nodes that you delete......

nerd announced they updated PP2016 to use GPU acceleration.

here's PP2014 test room with idl 0.8, 32 bounces, hsv 64 on envsphere. it seems to run up against some limit of bounces, as 32 appears same as 16.

may be necessary to increase IDL to 1.0, which I avoid due to diffuse multiplication between nearby surfaces. will try later.

it may be necessary in PP2014 to render as hdri optimised to get it to look better.

Ach, with a scene like this? => It is all about finding the right balance between direct and indirect light.

I use a single Infinite light that I set between 65 and 80% depending position. => Also => Set the Infinite light to Raytrace shadows. And the Ambient_Value on the sphere between 0.5 and 5 => (I remember at one time BB needed to go up to 800 to show something... LOL.)

Did you see the blue feet? LOL.

I saw them! but xpdev said not to add any lights.

Miss Nancy posted at 7:38AM Fri, 18 September 2015 - #4229038

I saw them! but xpdev said not to add any lights.

If light comes from outside, you can add it.

With no light, i mean no lights in shadows zone, under the roof, sorry, my mistake.

tonyvilters posted at 7:41AM Fri, 18 September 2015 - #4229033

I use a single Infinite light that I set between 65 and 80% depending position. => Also => Set the Infinite light to Raytrace shadows. And the Ambient_Value on the sphere between 0.5 and 5 => (I remember at one time BB needed to go up to 800 to show something... LOL.)

OK, give me infinte light position (x,y,z)

thanks

ok, meanwhile, thanks to both

Since it is not easy to follow you, do your best for rendering this scene.

When posting a new rendering, courtesy give me lights position and settings , the BB sphera settings and settings of IDL Firefly.

So i can reproduce and learn the best from you

Thank you.

tonyvilters please use for V4 (if you have) her high resolution skin, so i'm sure skin color variantion are not depending on different skin model but on scene light settings.

Thanks

xpdev posted at 10:58AM Fri, 18 September 2015 - #4229091

If light comes from outside, you can add it. With no light, i mean no lights in shadows zone, under the roof, sorry, my mistake.

I'll explain it better

I suppose that there are not lights in the shade zone under the roof, simply because in reality with great outdoor daylight, there is no need to turn on lights that are used at night time.

Ok, about these my renders, don't care about landscape, it's only visible in camera.

V4 skin is High Resolution Skin with settings suggested from tonyvilters

Miss Nancy settings BB Sphere HSV Value = 64

Lights None

IDL Settings Value = 0.8 Bounces = 16 IDL samples = 4096 IC = 60

What i see is that High value on BB sphere (64) burns skin a few. Or it's right effect?

tonyvilters

i'm not able to render with your settings, i haven't it.

Ach....

Nudity advisory don't work.

I'll let them know to check into the nudity advisory problem.

this one uses IDL intensity 1, 16 bounces, hsv value 64 on envsphere, no lights, no IC (IC unchecked). control-click for full-size image.

skin would burn out to yellow when using directional poser lights. in these I don't see much burnout, and there is no specular source. in poser render with no lights (PP2014 and earlier), you modulate appearance of specular highlights on skin with reflection node that should be part of snarly's EZSkin shader, but this may no longer be necessary with PP2016, if envsphere can be used as area light.

El Capitan (OS X) was scheduled for release Sept. 30; perhaps PP2016 release will be concurrent, since developers received the gold master of El Capitan last week.

here are render settings for scene above, using D3D's render firefly script:

I change slightly the pose of girl.

Thanks miss Nancy.

With a few clicks I got a result very much like Miss Nancys, just by applying EZMat/EZSkin2 to V4 / highres maps. Since XPDEV states in his signature that EZSkin is always used, I wonder where the issue comes from. Actually, EZSkin applies a BB shader setup from say 2009 which does have room for improvements but that''s beside the point. It removes the flaws for the texture setup and adds SSS into it.

I do have some notes on Miss Nancys rendering setup:

• for 64-bit PoserPro, a 64 bucket size is optimal while 32 is best for Poser and the 32bit PoserPro.
• Pixel Samples can just be 3, resulting in 3x3 anti aliasing. 4 is needed for large size renders made for large-size hires print. Larger values make no sense unless one is using the DoF (focal blur) functionality of Poser, which I strongly disadvise since its pretty ugly at any setting. I do it in post instead.
• the Shading Rate should be about 0.5 / square(Pixel Samples) otherwise one of them makes no sense. So, when using PS=3, SR = 0.05 (<0.5/9) is fine. The combi shown, PS=8 and SR=0.5 will result in longer render times without the resulting quality that might go with it.
• GC=2.2 is a fine compromise for classic Poser lit scenes, but reduced values are advised for IDL and/or SSS intensive scenes. I''d use 1.8 instead.
• 16 raytrace bounces is a bit over the top, the scene does not have this much reflections. The IDL bounces however can be increased for better results in the corners (where the wall meets the floor or ceiling), you can just type in 99 when the slider appears to be limited.
• I recommend IDL cache values between 80 and 90 for final renders. Values <80 will reduce image quality while values >90 increase render times disproportionaly. I use 85.
• I recommend IDL Samples between 1500 and 2500. Increased values will improve the image without increasing render times that much. I use 2000.
• I recommend the Sinc filter, and value 2 for soft cloth and female skin while using value 3 for male skin, fur and rough cloth where details are important. So, Miss Nancys choise here is well supported.

I''m just back from leave, I''ll see how the result can be improved by adding some (external) direct light to it.

Waiting for your rendering aRtBee.

Thanks for your time

next to running V4 through EZMat as already stated, I rebalanced Indirect and Direct light by

• changing the Alt Diffuse swatch in EnvSphere from white to (200,200,200)
• adding four Infinite Lights with no specular, reduced Diffuse intensity and quite limited shadowing. Purpose: get rid of the IDL artefacts (dark splotches)
• as in the image, with xRotate +/- 30 and yRotate -45 or -135

Then I rendered with settings as mentioned earlier

And after say 3300 sec Firefly produced

Just for reference (and as a tease), Octane produced this in 1/10th of the time, including some DoF, at 1600s/p quality

My personal opinion: I like Firefly a lot for its artistic functions, but it takes far to much time and effort (and dedicated skills etc) to bring it close enough to quasi photo real / PBR like results. That's it, have fun !

aRtBee This my personal opinioni, OK ?

I like your octane render, really good.

But your Firefly render is totally wrong

You said it yourself... this kind of scene is hard for any renderer so Firefly is certainly not gonna give you good results here. Either wait for cycles or if you can't wait, work with third party rendering.

aRtBee posted at 8:20PM Sun, 20 September 2015 - #4229294

With a few clicks I got a result very much like Miss Nancys.

ghonma Did you seen this post? This is why i said that.

Hi there

I would love to do quick render and test my settings which I usually do,but at moment I'm rebuilding the PC and my parts will be here sometimes in 2-3 weeks as they're custom and then I can post my renders etc

Thanks,Jura

I'm sorry - I could not resist. This is rendered in Poser 11 beta. There is hope.

I got rid of the white sphere and used my new sIBL sphere. This is two spheres - one to look at, one to use for lighting and reflections. The lighting and reflections one can be much brighter and HDR, while the one you look at is tone mapped for human perception. Thus - what you "see" is not what the surfaces are seeing. This results in good lighting, both in FireFly and SuperFly (Poser 11 version of Cycles renderer.)

Meanwhile - I modified almost all your materials since none were quite what I'd use. The skin is very simple - Scatter + Specular (with blur). In SuperFly all specular nodes generate reflections, too so this is in the very best style that I can also do in FireFly but let's look at something new, right?

I closed the eyes because I didn't feel like messing with them just to get 20 more pixels correct.

The walls and ceiling were too gray - I set the color swatches to white on them. Until I did that, the floor color dominated the room, which meant the skin had too much orange. Truly if you simulate an orange room, the skin will be orange - hardly a surprise.

The skin still looked too red (because red scatter is added by the shader). The skin texture was designed before scatter existed. So - you actually do have to remove some of the burned-in red of the skin. Don't listen to Vilters rant. I am sure that using an HSV with a blue color chip is the right approach here and that is what I did. If your skin texture is actually set for Diffuse (not Diffuse + Scatter) then you don't need that. But almost all the V4 textures contain both the Diffuse color and the Scatter color combined. They should not - but they do, so that is how you fix them. I used RGB 230, 240, 255.

The plant wanted translucence. In Poser 11 with SuperFly, translucence really works. I just plugged the texture into translucence and all is good.

The floor wanted Fresnel - easily added even in Poser 10 - you should know better by now.

The beta does not have all the controls we should have yet. As a result I could not get at the antialiasing devices. So the rails looked jaggy. I had to render double size, do a Gaussian blur, then reduce image size by half, to get the rails to look OK. I'm sure that will change before final release.

Note: My presence here is not a sign that I have forgiven Renderosity for the atrocity they have perpetrated on this forum and its users.

If you reply, I will not receive an ebot notification so don't expect an answer.

knife-edge rails was causing jaggies AFAICT. that why I increased pixel samples to 8.

apparently sIBL outer sphere (emitter, 102% scale) don't need to emit specular (as area light) since superfly specular reflects diffuse as well.

bagginsbill posted at 3:53PM Mon, 21 September 2015 - #4229838

Note: My presence here is not a sign that I have forgiven Renderosity for the atrocity they have perpetrated on this forum and its users.

If you reply, I will not receive an ebot notification so don't expect an answer.

Just in case: C O O L ! Thanks.

Almost everything looks much better. I just noticed that my monitors must be calibrated differently. I was going to comment on the chair producing too little shadow, but when I move it to my second monitor it looks better.

as BB mentioned, concentric spheres solve problem of blowout. you set exterior sphere emitter value as high as desired, whilst interior hdr background sphere can avoid blowout.

Thanks to everyone.

BB, Miss Nancy, It is always an enlightening read your posts.

bagginsbill posted at 8:09AM Tue, 22 September 2015 - #4229838

Note: My presence here is not a sign that I have forgiven Renderosity for the atrocity they have perpetrated on this forum and its users.

Now I understand why your post "BB sIBL for Poser" has no news from first August days, even if i don't understand what you mean.

i hope you'll come back here asap

Here are my test renders,2 of them are rendered in Poser Pro and one is rendered in renderer which I'm beta testing

First render is rendered in Poser Pro with IDL,GC ON,render settings are not high,due this you can see light leaks,I've altered walls on all of them as I don't like the grey walls and I've used single light as Infinite light set at 85% with raytrace shadows set 6.0

In this particular I've used 2 Infinite lights,first one is just for shadows set at 75% and second one just for brightening up set at 25%,render settings always has been same

Last render has been rendered in beta render SW which I'm testing and render took around 15mins in CPU mode only and in GPU mode(OpenCL mode on R9 290) this particular scene took under 5mins and settings has been pretty much average and I wouldn't say they're been high for this test(as you can see around the ear there is light leak),for lighting I've used only mesh light and dome and for floor its done by plugin only texture I've used

For rendering in Poser Pro using only dome light not sure if I would use,you will need extra source of light,that's my view on this

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura

i would like know the render time with the same pc with octane render and superfly .. is it possible ? ;-)

Wimvdb is the only one of whom I know offhand who has both an Octane license and the Superfly (Poser to Cycles) render engine, along with CUDA GPUs.

You may find this comparison useful.

As I thought ...;-) (but I wanted to see with poser and not with Blender)

thx for info!

andygraph posted at 1:39PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237607

As I thought ...;-) (but I wanted to see with poser and not with Blender)

Unless they did something strange, it is Cycles code.

I meant that I wanted to see (Cycles code vs Octane Render) under one software: Poser

I understand, Andygraph. Wim is the only one of whom I am aware has all the hardware and software to compare them.