It's been pretty lousy for the guys in the Marketplace, but nowadays it almost seems like the vendors have pretty well written off any support whatsoever for the guys outside of the occasional texture for M4.

Is it time we just accept that the community isnt interested and end the charade? I ask this with all seriousness, because it's gotten to the point that one has to go through pages of the MP to find anything anymore. The Summer Vendor Sale didnt have a single thing for the men.

Yes, yes, I know, guy stuff doesnt sell. Well, if it doesnt, then let's tell Smith Micro and DAZ not to bother with a male mesh that no one really wants in the first place. It seems like this is where the community wants to go, so why are we pretending otherwise?

The big problem I see that DAZ wants to get into video game content provider market. From what I see, most video games use male characters. As you correctly pointed out, there is very little clothes for males. Unless the video game is Attack of the Bikini Bimbos, there is not enough content for them.

A better question is, would you be willing to pay premium prices for M4 stuff ? Cause the problem here isn't lack of content, but lack of money for anyone making the content. So, would you pay $200-$300 for new M4 characters ? $100-$150 for new clothing ?

Depends on where you're looking. Male content may not be released at the same rate as females, but it certainly isn't dead. You're just almost 3 versions behind if you're looking for M4 items or lower.

I'd say those who'd like to render more than just sexy wimmenfolk, never had it better than now:

Took me 15 years before I've FINALLY seen a simple, traditional raincoat that really looks the part:

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=110525

I mean, it actually has realistic folds and doesn't look like it was constructed from a sheet of styrofoam.

But you need above average skill to do good male clothing as compared to your typical "three triangles and a shoelace" bikini.

And of course you need to be willing to embrace new technology. Or willing to learn how to convert clothing yourself. (And again, converting male clothing to a professional level is much more complicated than converting your average Vicky cheescake gladrags)

Hope this sells good enough for Cayman Studios to do more male clothing.

Now, would someone PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN, TOO?

I, for one, will never stop making male content. I have one of each-male/female-so far, but my mainstay has always been male products when purchasing. I don't intend on leaving that behind in being a vendor. Clothing, characters, or props...no matter how sites trend.

I think there are many people want and like to make renders with male characters, I almost do things for only male figures, and even I am creating now a new male figure, "female content" market is bigger, yes it is and will be, but I think "male" market is alive too

Me I am just an dirty old man... I do love fremale and their great outfits the odd poke it is great Male(s) when they allow the male parts to be showed full it will make me happy to use the male more

Some good looking characters for Dusk just came out at RDNA.

"A better question is, would you be willing to pay premium prices for M4 stuff ? Cause the problem here isn't lack of content, but lack of money for anyone making the content. So, would you pay $200-$300 for new M4 characters ? $100-$150 for new clothing ?"

And even better question would be: why is such an environment necessary? If anything, you've underscored my point. There is so little interest that, in order for you to move anything, you'd have to charge twenty to thirty times as much to cover your costs.

Yes, there's some interesting things coming out for Dusk. Yes, the Genesis line has a few nice things. But it's all a blip on the radar. There's no market. And while I certainly appreciate the efforts made to give the guys something to work with, it's patently obvious that it's such a tiny share of the Poser/DS market that it might as well not be there at all. So again, why are we bothering with the male meshes? Even DAZ's support for its own M5 has been miniscule compared to the neverending wave of female characters. If DAZ doesnt care that much about its own work, why should anyone else?

SeanMartin posted at 10:01AM Tue, 15 September 2015 - #4228453

Yes, there's some interesting things coming out for Dusk. Yes, the Genesis line has a few nice things. But it's all a blip on the radar. There's no market. And while I certainly appreciate the efforts made to give the guys something to work with, it's patently obvious that it's such a tiny share of the Poser/DS market that it might as well not be there at all. So again, why are we bothering with the male meshes? Even DAZ's support for its own M5 has been miniscule compared to the neverending wave of female characters. If DAZ doesnt care that much about its own work, why should anyone else?

How do you know it's no market? I'm sorry but you're speculating. There is a market, otherwise there wouldn't be 7 iterations of Michael. It's not as big as the girls, but I've been picking up several items for my guys including new figures. And I have 2 guys in queue that I'm making myself, and I've made enough off my men to keep making them. Like I said it depends on where you look. If you're looking at rendo for M4 stuff, then yeah, the market is dried up and hard to come by new items. You look on DAZ, there's male items there and a major male release happened a few weeks ago. You probably should change your title to specify Poser only because that's probably what you mean and this is the Poser forum. DAZ is doing ok with the boys. ;)

Ye Scott for G2M is still ranked high on the what's hot charts over at Daz and he was released around a week ago. Don't assume stats based off one market places behavior or available content.

"Even DAZ's support for its own M5 has been miniscule compared to the neverending wave of female characters."_

And M5 is a shape, not a figure. So there is no need to directly support M5 when nearly all content built on the G2M base is compatible with him. And with the available clones, that rule applies for all G1 and M4 content as well.

Zev0 posted at 10:22AM Tue, 15 September 2015 - #4228458

Ye Scott for G2M is still ranked high on the what's hot charts over at Daz and he was released around a week ago. Don't assume stats based off one market places behavior.

"Even DAZ's support for its own M5 has been miniscule compared to the neverending wave of female characters."_

And M5 is a shape, not a figure. So there is no need to directly support M5 when nearly all content built on the G2M base is compatible with him. And with the available clones, that rule applies for all G1 and M4 content as well.

Also keep in mind also that during that generation there as a Hiro 5, Freak 5, David 5, young teens and various male creature releases, there was still lots to choose from

what i see of the sexi men stuff seems to be for exciting dudes. want sexi men stuff to excite ladies yowsa

I wonder if part of the problem is the lack of support from the big three content providers in making the market more open to independent developers. I've seen a large amount of very good materials for the male characters, but at smaller sites with no publicity budget. By shoving the small business person/developer into the outer shadows it tends to destroy that market because, and this is speaking as someone who can't make this stuff, they just don't want the competition.

Alas, if only there were a website for these independent content producers where they could get decent coverage for their creations! Not knowing they are out there, and what their inventory consists of, makes it very difficult for these folks.

And even better question would be: why is such an environment necessary? If anything, you've underscored my point. There is so little interest that, in order for you to move anything, you'd have to charge twenty to thirty times as much to cover your costs.

I wasn't asking a rhetorical question. Me and a few friends have been toying with the idea of a Poser 'boutique' ie a Poser market that caters to specialized segments of the Poserverse that are typically too small to attract the usual content makers. Think of it as 'prosumer' grade Poser content that is more expensive then the mass market stuff but of considerably higher quality, tailored to your exact requirements and exclusive. Would people be interested in something like that ?

pa store sale 'Yura'

just bought a nice jacket, turtleneck sweater for g2m. 'air defender'

Personally I can't find enough good male stuff. I even buy stuff for the future because you never know what the creative bug will inspire. So for me, I think the OP is off target.

I can't do without content for the males.

I agree with some of the others. We need more content for the guys, not more expensive content. Based on what some here say The law of supply and demand would contradict the idea of paying hundreds for content. If the demand is low, the price should be kept down.

Lest folks think I"m whining, I'm not. I"m simply stating an obvious fact. There is so little need for the male meshes that if you look at DAZ's "what's hot", you will find exactly one thing for the guys amidst thirty or so for the women. Law of supply and demand seems to be saying that so few people care about using the guys that it's pointless even for DAZ to do it.

As for the response that "M5 is a character, not a figure!", look at the literally tons of things released when V5 was put on sale, and then tell me that V5 is just a character and not a figure. Figure or character, it doesnt matter. What reflects community interest is what's showing up in the stores, and it doesnt take much to look either at DAZ or here to see that the vendors simply do not care about creating stuff they know will not sell.

Sorry, just being painfully truthful here. If usage of the guys is now going to be dictated by special request modelling that requires a couple of hundred bucks just to get one outfit, then it's time to shut it down. I damn sure dont have that kind of money, and I doubt many others do for what is pretty much a hobby.

I"m just not seeing a whole lot of future here, sorry.

SeanMartin posted at 8:47PM Thu, 17 September 2015 - #4229046

Lest folks think I"m whining, I'm not. I"m simply stating an obvious fact. There is so little need for the male meshes that if you look at DAZ's "what's hot", you will find exactly one thing for the guys amidst thirty or so for the women. Law of supply and demand seems to be saying that so few people care about using the guys that it's pointless even for DAZ to do it.

As for the response that "M5 is a character, not a figure!", look at the literally tons of things released when V5 was put on sale, and then tell me that V5 is just a character and not a figure. Figure or character, it doesnt matter. What reflects community interest is what's showing up in the stores, and it doesnt take much to look either at DAZ or here to see that the vendors simply do not care about creating stuff they know will not sell.

Sorry, just being painfully truthful here. If usage of the guys is now going to be dictated by special request modelling that requires a couple of hundred bucks just to get one outfit, then it's time to shut it down. I damn sure dont have that kind of money, and I doubt many others do for what is pretty much a hobby.

I"m just not seeing a whole lot of future here, sorry.

There male outfits and characters today at DAZ or the M4 character and outfit that popped up on rendo the other day. Also M5 content hasn't been made in about 2 years because M6 is the current generation; I think from the responses in this thread, you're alone in your assessment.

I hope I am wrong. But let's look at what's out there for M6. According to DAZ, there are a grand total of 16 "wearables" for Michael 6. V6/G2 Females have 492.

Shall I repeat that? M6 — 16. V6/G2F — 492.

SeanMartin posted at 9:39PM Thu, 17 September 2015 - #4229056

I hope I am wrong. But let's look at what's out there for M6. According to DAZ, there are a grand total of 16 "wearables" for Michael 6. V6/G2 Females have 492.

Shall I repeat that? M6 — 16. V6/G2F — 492.

Yeah, don't use that search. It's borked just like here. More than 16 outfits, sorry. In my clothing directory (and I haven't bought every outfit) I'm counting 185. Clothing is running about 1/2 to 1/3 of the females. (and some directories have subdirectory of clothing grouped by vendor so it will go up from there.

EDIT: And if you are a bit more savvy, you can use a crossfigure utility and snatch outfits from the females. I've grabbed wings, tunics and bot armor and used it on the guys.

My two cents, and worth what you paid, but the guys could all use more everyday clothes. Loads of things for fantasy, or armor,or anything but what an average Joe would wear everyday. Not restricted to the daz things, not much more available for the poser guys, which I use just as often. But to answer Sean, take away the guys, and I have nothing left to work with. My problem is there just isn't enough male clothing to fill my needs (wants).

Doric

I, too, wish there was more content for the males and children. However, as a female I can tell you that I always had many more Barbie dolls than Ken dolls and even Mattel makes far fewer clothing items for their males than their females. Barbie can be anything from bikini babe to astronaut to princess to president, but poor Ken is lucky if he has one pair of swim trunks, one set of jeans/t-shirt, and a tuxedo.

From my personal experience in real life, men have far fewer clothing items (unless you count the number of different T-shirts and pairs of jeans) and shoes than their average female companions/spouses. My husband usually has 2-3 pairs of shoes at one time that he wears. I have that many different pairs of athletic shoes and I can barely even walk. I've literally had as many as 75 different pairs of dress and casual shoes at one time in my life. My clothes take up more than half the closet and I have an entire dresser more of storage space than my husband. Also, in my experience, men are much less likely to change hair styles as frequently as women. Maybe this is a matter of art imitating life?

I don't think the issue is so much the amount of clothing as much as it is the quality of the clothing and the lack of textures. A lot of male clothing would sell better if it was textured better.

Look at men's pants in real life. They either have pleats or they don't have pleats, they have cuffs or they don't have cuffs - that is pretty much it. What we do have is lacking in good texture sets for those pants. In the case of clothing for the genesis series figure, the complete lack of movement morphs built into that clothing, and the horrible, horrible texture choices made by vendors. I have ignored lots of male clothing at daz because I could not tuck in a shirt or button a jacket. A lot of male clothing made over the past few years just isn't very well made. I think that the best suit made for a male figure is the Casablanca Suit - it was made for Michael 3 and has never been bettered.

I would also add in the vendor attitudes towards men's clothing is also an issue:

"I once made a product for M3, Apollo Maximus, etc, a decade ago - it didn't sell very well, so I have never made a male product since." The fact that it was poorly made and had colors and patterns that no man would ever be caught dead in never once enters the vendors mind.

Example of poorly made product - plaid shirt - the back of the shirt had 2 panels running at 45 degree angles from not only each side of the back, but also didn't line up with the front of the shirt. And the vendor couldn't grasp why people didn't pay 25% more than their female outfits.

There are solutions to these problems however:

Let go of the Poser 6 workflow. If your workflow consists of "Load, conform, "Make Art", yeah, you are kinda limited in what you can do.

End users have the ability to separate the clothing from the figures, so it is possible to build a fairly extensive wardrobe - I certainly have. You just have to learn how to use features that have been added to Poser over the last 15 or so years.

Take off the training wheels and the problem goes away.

we just gettin started.

I don't think the issue is so much the amount of clothing as much as it is the quality of the clothing and the lack of textures. A lot of male clothing would sell better if it was textured better.

You are not a vendor so stop speculating. The majority of users and customers in this market are males, and they prefer to buy content for the opposite sex. Even if a male outfit is created way better than any female outfit, all it takes is a bikini or lingerie set to beat it's sales. That is the reality of the situation. It has nothing to do with texture quality or this and that. It's simple logistics.

In closing, I respect any person who continues to make male content knowing there is easier money in female content.

Zev0 posted at 8:57AM Fri, 25 September 2015 - #4230667

I don't think the issue is so much the amount of clothing as much as it is the quality of the clothing and the lack of textures. A lot of male clothing would sell better if it was textured better.

You are not a vendor so stop speculating. The majority of users and customers in this market are males, and they prefer to buy content for the opposite sex. Even if a male outfit is created way better than any female outfit, all it takes is a bikini or lingerie set to beat it's sales. That is the reality of the situation. It has nothing to do with texture quality or this and that. It's simple logistics.

In closing, I respect any person who continues to make male content knowing there is easier money in female content.

Unlike you, I was here for the great male clothing flame wars - my "speculation" is based on what vendors actually told us along with looking at all of the male clothing I have purchased over the past decade plus.

Shouldn't you be reworking your G2F content for the fat chick?

Unlike you, I don't go on old information and comments based on a few years ago. That's silly, specially if you are a content developer. They gave input based on figures available at the time. And yes I am reworking some of my stuff for the "fat chick". It's good money. I'd rather support the "fat chick" than some dead wannabe figure. Don't know why you think she is fat, unless you have eyesight problems:)

Displacement cellulite for fat chick might be cool.

Already exists via displacement, as well as via HD morphs, depending what platform you're using.

This subject is old & tired. Things will never change. I'll never pay hundreds of dollars for any "Poser stuff."

cedarwolf posted at 10:49AM Mon, 28 September 2015 - #4228467

Alas, if only there were a website for these independent content producers where they could get decent coverage for their creations! Not knowing they are out there, and what their inventory consists of, makes it very difficult for these folks.

Could this be the place ? Click Here

I use my male models a great deal, mainly because I am not into pretty faces or cheese cake shots. I tell stories and I generally design a new character for each and every render. I use the male models a great deal because they tell the story in their face better.....

Zev0 posted at 11:26AM Tue, 29 September 2015 - #4230685

Unlike you, I don't go on old information and comments based on a few years ago. That's silly, specially if you are a content developer. They gave input based on figures available at the time. And yes I am reworking some of my stuff for the "fat chick". It's good money. I'd rather support the "fat chick" than some dead wannabe figure. Don't know why you think she is fat, unless you have eyesight problems:)

Bethany 7 IS a fat chick - and is the only thing "new".

AFA "old information" this is what many of the 3rd tier vendors were/are telling customers. Along with "I don't have time to learn any feature added to Poser over the past 3 or 4 versions - even the ones that would make my job much easier" - like the rigging tools in 2014. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the plight of 3rd tier vendors - they put themselves in the position they are in now.

Back on topic - Male figures & clothing (or anything else male related, for that matter.)

There is a lot available - IF you take off the training wheels. It isn't difficult to move clothing content from 1 figure to another. I have a couple hundred outfits that I have converted from AM, DAZ Gen2/3/4, SM G1 & 2 over the years for use with other figures. The same can be said for skin textures & hair.

Every time there is a new mesh released, I spend a weekend converting content & then they are ready to go into any story line I am working on. The money I save on this goes to more of what I need (props & merchant resources).

I have to agree.. we do need more guy content. I'm currently searching for the perfect James Bond-esqe morph/texture and Joe Flanigan hair. Not much luck either. :(

Kendra posted at 6:16PM Tue, 29 September 2015 - #4231505

I have to agree.. we do need more guy content. I'm currently searching for the perfect James Bond-esqe morph/texture and Joe Flanigan hair. Not much luck either. :(

See SAV Dante for your perfect Bond.

I stopped buying female stuff some time ago, much of what I see as far as clothes go seem to be designed to fit into some ones fetish. Course I also see the same type of market developing for males. It is almost fun to see males being used as sensual objects. I predict that the market for the males is going to grow for a great number of reasons.....

If you have Texture Transformer, there is an new free M4 to Dusk plugin...

https://www.renderosity.com/blacksmith3d-texture-transformer-update-cms-17922

WandW posted at 10:38AM Wed, 30 September 2015 - #4231588

If you have Texture Transformer, there is an new free M4 to Dusk plugin...

https://www.renderosity.com/blacksmith3d-texture-transformer-update-cms-17922

Yep, gonna spend the weekend harvesting M4 skin textures for Dusk.

Ooh, Dante could work. I saw that character used elsewhere and have been hoping to see it in the store. Now... who can make me Joe Flanigan's hair? :)

I think a lot of people want new male figures and content because they still want to use POSER. M4/F4 were the last non-Genesis men Daz had offered, even though they have conforming clothes issues in Poser that they don't in Daz Studio. When one buys a human male figure one should get human male genitalia without having to buy special pro packages. Weight Mapping was supposed to be Poser's answer to Genesis, but it hasn't been. Genesis isn't well implemented in Poser and from what I have read, the Genesis 3 figure is even worse. The last time Smith Micro made an effort to offere and support Poser specific figuers was the G2 series. For a while they had lots of clothing and accessories for them--but they still looked a bit off, had limited texture map selection and lacked facial hair options. I wish someone would do something like Apollo exclusively for Poser with vendor support for textures and outfits or at very least Smith Micro should supply better, handsome human figures in the next release which people will want to use. Poser Worold has more male outfits than you can find here. Miki seems the only human figure that SM wants to support and though she's pretty, there is no male equivalent and she still has limited outfits.

I still love Poser best. Daz Studio is slow and cumbersome on my computer (even the 64 bit version). I fear that if someone doesn't step up to the plate and develop more new human figures that are Poser Specific, that Poser will become extinct. If everyone is so ga-ga over Genesis and Poser doesn't develop native support for the Genesis figure or Smith Micro doesn't come up with something equivalent, eventually people will just get D/S free and no one will want Poser anymore.

I fear that if someone doesn't step up to the plate and develop more new human figures that are Poser Specific, that Poser will become extinct. If everyone is so ga-ga over Genesis and Poser doesn't develop native support for the Genesis figure or Smith Micro doesn't come up with something equivalent, eventually people will just get D/S free and no one will want Poser anymore.

Here is the problem as I see it. Even if SM releases something equivalent figure wise, how will you get developers to stop making content for V4, Genesis 2&3 (which is a proven success), and get them to support more SM figures which has never had the same level of revenue stream and support compared to the Daz figures? Look at what happened to Dawn and Dusk. Not even they could attract the masses and retain them. Majority of developers ended support because they weren't making enough money. Why? Because people simply weren't interested in them on a commercial level. Sure some vendors tried it out to test the waters, but after that most never returned. So how can SM turn it around when in their recent history, has never been able to do so regarding figures and support? Roxie and Rex? Remember them? This isn't a stab at SM, but an honest evaluation. It takes years to build a reputation as a respectable figure developer, and only one company in this market has been able to achieve that so far. And with that comes natural support because a proven track record speaks volumes.

So how do you get more users and developers and attract them to Poser? How do you attract the new user wanting to try out these apps to choose your platform? What are you going to offer them? Is what you are offering better than the alternative? These are the real questions you need to ask, only then can you come up with a viable plan of action. I have seen way too many bad decisions being made going on hope and optimism rather than based on logistics and market research. Let's hope the situation is different this time. Do I see SM's new figures (whenever they come out) taking on the Genesis3 on a commercial level? No I don't, but that's my opinion. But at least SM can earn some brownie points by putting in a genuine effort, one that has been lacking in previous offerings, and at least give their users something usable and something they can be happy with. And depending on their success, might even attract some A list developers to provide content for them, because it's content that drives figures. And no, I am not comment as a Daz user or Poser user, but from a content developers perspective.

I am a Poser user since version 4. Daz actually used to design the figures for Poser in the early days--and Poser has had several different owners over the years. Then Poser's parent company had a falling out with Daz when they started to develop Daz Studio. You can find the complete history of Poser in this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poser

I think that Don/Judy were the last Daz designed human figures for Poser. Don was actually as good Michael 2, but no one came out with much stuff for him, but I think Judy actually enjoyed some degree of popularity. But the feud between Daz and Poser's owners was the real fly in the ointment. Don could actually accept Michael 2 texture maps with some tweaking.

When e-Frontier bought Poser from Curious Labs it's answer to this problem was to open Content Paradise which offered a Platinum Club type of membership, with weekly free models and lots of content for their human models. We first started with a lot of stuff for James/Jessie, then plenty of offering for the G2 line. When Smith Micro took over though, all that stopped. The answer I think is that Smith Micro do another club, pay content providers to make things for their next generation of people and make sure those people are attractive and that people will want to use them. It's a shame that the deal was cancelled for Apollo to become Poser's default male figure. Really I think the G2s did enjoy some degree of success; but the male figures body types were not the types I like to us. I want Poser to live on, I don't want it to die. Content Paradise has very little to offer me these days. If the G2 figures had body and facial hair and a variety of mapsI probably would have used them much more than I have. Nash that Jepe developed for the G2 male was actually quite good.

If the next version of Poser worked better with Genesis perhaps everyone could be happy--but I am skeptical.

Am I the only one who worries about Poser continuing to thrive? E-Frontier had the right ideal, and Smith Micro could make more money if they had better content.

If the next version of Poser worked better with Genesis perhaps everyone could be happy--but I am skeptical.

That scenario is unlikely. Would solve a lot of the fighting, but the situation is what it is.

Smith Micro could make more money if they had better content.

Agreed. However they need their own site to be the forefront store, not sell content through other sites. CP is a shadow of what it used to be, and doesn't send out a positive message that they are serious about content. That perception needs to change as well.

Tomsde posted at 10:28AM Fri, 02 October 2015 - #4231965

I am a Poser user since version 4. Daz actually used to design the figures for Poser in the early days--and Poser has had several different owners over the years. Then Poser's parent company had a falling out with Daz when they started to develop Daz Studio. You can find the complete history of Poser in this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poser

I think that Don/Judy were the last Daz designed human figures for Poser. Don was actually as good Michael 2, but no one came out with much stuff for him, but I think Judy actually enjoyed some degree of popularity. But the feud between Daz and Poser's owners was the real fly in the ointment. Don could actually accept Michael 2 texture maps with some tweaking.

When e-Frontier bought Poser from Curious Labs it's answer to this problem was to open Content Paradise which offered a Platinum Club type of membership, with weekly free models and lots of content for their human models. We first started with a lot of stuff for James/Jessie, then plenty of offering for the G2 line. When Smith Micro took over though, all that stopped. The answer I think is that Smith Micro do another club, pay content providers to make things for their next generation of people and make sure those people are attractive and that people will want to use them. It's a shame that the deal was cancelled for Apollo to become Poser's default male figure. Really I think the G2s did enjoy some degree of success; but the male figures body types were not the types I like to us. I want Poser to live on, I don't want it to die. Content Paradise has very little to offer me these days. If the G2 figures had body and facial hair and a variety of mapsI probably would have used them much more than I have. Nash that Jepe developed for the G2 male was actually quite good.

If the next version of Poser worked better with Genesis perhaps everyone could be happy--but I am skeptical.

Am I the only one who worries about Poser continuing to thrive? E-Frontier had the right ideal, and Smith Micro could make more money if they had better content.

Welcome back, long time - no see.

I don't mean to sound too terribly cynical but I have been hearing the "OMG! the roof is falling in on Poser" for over a decade now. DAZ and SM have different business models. DAZ sells razor-blades - with the release of every figure, the few vendors that make genesis content simply rework the content they developed for earlier figure for the new one - you get to buy the same product over and over and over. Some of the genesis 2 female content was originally built for V3, Miki 1 and P6 Jessi. A lot of it is just reworked V4 content. There is very little "new" content for the genesis line. And what little that is "new" is as good as what was made a decade ago for M3/V3, the texturing is merely better.

SM would not make more money with better support for genesis. SM would make less money. SM, not DAZ would be responsible for all of the man-hours for writing the code. They would also be responsible for maintaining it after DAZ drops it. You have been around long enough to know how many times DAZ has changed technology directions over the years. Genesis didn't bring much to the table - it has animateable joint centers (the same tech Apollo Maximus had a decade ago) and a proprietary weight mapping scheme - which you can replace in Poser with Poser's weight mapping in less than 5 seconds.

If you want genesis working better in Poser - you need to talk to DAZ or do it yourself in Poser. It is their figure and it is their software. They made the deliberate choice NOT to make a Poser native figure. Asking SM to fix DAZ's software is like demanding that Apple fix bugs in Adobe Photoshop. SM can not reverse engineer the code - that would be a violation of the DMCA.

Hivewire's figures (Dusk & Dawn) work as native Poser and DS figures, so it isn't like it can't be done - DAZ chooses not to. The same can be said for products that come with Poser Companion Files - the vendors could make those as Poser native files (So you don't actually have to use DSON - with 1 exception, they choose not to.) They could also put those PCFs in the correct subfolders instead of stuffing every conceivable file type in the Pose subfolder, but they choose not to - even vendors that know better.

If you actually want genesis 1 and 2 figures working in Poser as Poser Native figures, right now - you can (No DSON required). It isn't very difficult, merely tedious - most of the time is spent unscrewing the file structure, so you can actually find stuff.

The key is doing away with DSON. You will never have decent performance using it.

The other key is letting go of Poser 6's workflow. You can easily upgrade all of your legacy figures (adding both weight mapping and subdivision). No need to chuck all of your content. The Poser ecosystem has lots of tools available to leverage content you already own. Currently, any of my figures can wear any clothing designed for any figure, I can do the same with hair & with a few exceptions, skin textures.

There's a new Poser male figure over at RDNA.

I am mostly interested in the Sci Fi Genre for animation, This is an Area where Smith micro/Content paradise really Fell short for both Males & Females. Also on male HAIR OPTIONS we saw very little variety for james,Simon ,koji Ryan or the “CP G2” males.

Over the past decade Poser 6 james had the most potential IMHO but his musculature topology was not very good and his morph options were limited. Appollo Max??… I am sorry but for all of his “innovation” You could not get him to look like anyone other than apollo max he lacked muscular detail And just Like the dead&gone “Antonia” His “wave of the future” rigging made him incompatible with standard biped Character motion Data thus precluded him from My character animation workflow.

The majority of his content consisted of homoerotic fetish wear and thus was not useful to me at least

And again where was his Sci-fi gear?? and facial hair options.

In response to the claim that “genesis brought nothing new to the table” Well that depends on your primary usage habits.

If all you ever render are stills of NSEWG’s* (naked ,skinny Eurocentric white girls)

Then yes genesis offers you not much over V4 from the end user perspective. But if you need non standard humanoid ,sci- fi fantasy beings (male & female Aliens ,Dwarfs,monsters etc) or REALISTIC Obese humans, that can ALL wear The same Factional ,galactic uniforms or other sci fi gear Without the need for tedious& cumbersome Conversion/refitting sessions that goes pieces as soon as the figure starts to move across the floor . Then I would Argue that genesis brings much to the Table that is “new” for my usage habits

And I wont even bother to mention the lack of modern animation tools for SM native males because I No longer use poser for Character animation .

Well my legacy Poser figures work fine with the latest version of Poser, but people always want new content. There is ef-Steve now on sale for $5.00 at Runtime DNA, his clothes cost $12 and some change. I have a lot of odd figures. He is not Daz Studio compatible. I'm sure that Poser will continue as long as people have desirable content that still works with it. Apollo had a lot of third party vendor support, with historical outfits and not just "gay fettish attire". Poser World has a bunch of everyday stuff for him and there's always the Wardrobe Wizard. People will want and keep using Daz Gen 4 figures as long as they don't have many options. I'm not willing to spend a lot of time tweaking stuff, I want to focus more attention on my artwork. So what program I use will be determined by what works best in each one.

My point was things were better for everyone when Poser's owners and Daz got along. I don't know who has given up on Poser, but it' still my favorite 3D figure program.