Sowwy, that's Judy, not V.  My apology.

And I recall some EULA changes from V4 to V7.  Best read and understand.

If your referring to my comment to treewrx I was just talking about for personal use. I would never advise some one attempt to modify anothers character for commercial use.

I thought there was a time when the eula said DAZ could terminate the license at any time for any reason.  I might be wrong.  Thought there was a thread on that a while back.

V4 renders pretty well and fast. I'm not crazy about supporting figures that have only a year and a half life cycle (at an inflated price to boot!). V7 looks nice but any additional character morphs and textures are very pricy. V6, well that was nice too, but life expectancy isn't going to be supported for too long. V5.... a ghost of years gone by. How often should we update our libraries with new content for a character that will last a year, to a year and a half? If I had the money I might support this model (and business model), I find it's like the argument to buy a new car every year. Better, faster, safer, more expensive, yet harder and more expensive to repair without going to dealership or specialized mechanics. 

V7 will last a year, maybe two. I do feel for the vendors who's work in supporting the yearly developed characters get tossed into "well if you didn't make money right away it's not our fault".  The Genesis template (which was pushed as being a huge deal) has been changed every year, or year and a half. Kind of breaks the whole sale point of it's versatility. So versatile we've redone it so you can buy it again at full price! I don't understand why (especially with a monthly subscription club) the other company doesn't give an upgrade discount for the base model. True the base G's have become free, but still.... full price for the signature morph each time (with minor pc club discount) is just silly.

*Stands on soapbox, looks around, not trolling, expressing what I've read and heard at many forum threads.

Not to mention the whole "doesn't work in competitor's software so eat it whiny babies" attitude that die hard supporters spout. I tire of the whole argument about the other company bending over backwards (apparently by giving away competing software with a value they couldn't get many people to really purchase when it was for sale) and using a 3rd party (2nd party?) python script to import which may or may not work but is certain to take more of your time (especially if it fails). Mind you the die hard supporters rewrite history as if one company never made money on the others technology either.....

*Steps down from soapbox

For most of my purposes working at this level (as a hobbyist), V4 is fine. Heck I even use and like TY2 (due to facial sculpt). I think if both companies would work together the two companies would both do much better business. As competitors one may eventually win but it's also possible the niche market will move on to another software program.

Don't sweat the life-cycle of a figure Kazam561.  A 2 year active life-cycle for a figure is pretty much the norm - V4 was the outlier.  Any figure not named Victoria 4 will end up being a niche figure, even the DAZ ones. Fortunately, it is easy to harvest V4/M4 content for use with other figures.  Well, except for shoes - those aren't easy.

If a particular figure has something you need - use it as long as you need it.  I am still using products from the DAZ V2/M2 & Posette era, because I am not recasting my story arcs with new figures every 2 years.  The same can be said of my M4/V4 and SM G2 figures. 

Don't sweat the rantings of the DAZ vendors here - if they were confident of their decisions, they wouldn't be posting in Poser forums, they would be helping out their customers in the DS forums.

AFA DAZ & SM working together - don't hold your breath - Since the release of DS1, the only post-Poser 4 tech DAZ has added to DS is the ability to read .mt5 and .mc6 files with the release of DS4.5.  It has to go both ways, and DAZ is very much a My way or the highway kind of company.

Don't sweat the life-cycle of a figure Kazam561.  A 2 year active life-cycle for a figure is pretty much the norm - V4 was the outlier.  Any figure not named Victoria 4 will end up being a niche figure, even the DAZ ones. Fortunately, it is easy to harvest V4/M4 content for use with other figures.  Well, except for shoes - those aren't easy.

If a particular figure has something you need - use it as long as you need it.  I am still using products from the DAZ V2/M2 & Posette era, because I am not recasting my story arcs with new figures every 2 years.  The same can be said of my M4/V4 and SM G2 figures. 

Don't sweat the rantings of the DAZ vendors here - if they were confident of their decisions, they wouldn't be posting in Poser forums, they would be helping out their customers in the DS forums.

AFA DAZ & SM working together - don't hold your breath - Since the release of DS1, the only post-Poser 4 tech DAZ has added to DS is the ability to read .mt5 and .mc6 files with the release of DS4.5.  It has to go both ways, and DAZ is very much a My way or the highway kind of company.

Thank you ssgbryan

Let's see...

I use Poser 7 and Vue 6.5. I also have around 600 content files, many of them V4 related.

What would it take for me to use the latest Genesis figure? Well, buy a new Poser version ($70) or learn DAZ, something I don't have time or the desire to do. I only use Vue for scene creation and rendering, and it's not going to support the latest Poser version, that means upgrading ($1,295).

Past all the re-learning and large expense for the software, then I would start with no content for those figures. That would mean buying all new clothing for them, another large expense.

So no, I have no desire to move away from V4.

I actually took the time to learn DS just the other day.  

I pretty much switched completely after using Poser since 2002.

I actually took the time to learn DS just the other day.  

I pretty much switched completely after using Poser since 2002.

So and what does that have to do with using V4?

Are you using V4 now in DS?

-Speaking about DAZ_studio: The only reason I use DS is because of the aniblocks made for V4, I can easily setup an animation with them and export that as an Pz2 file in poser. In poser I can make a clothroom simulation with a selfmade cloth using  the Pz2 file. For those who are not familair with aniblocks, it is something like walkdesigner, but much more extensive. And AFAIK is doesn't work for any genesis figure because they are otherwise rigged. Nowadays I barely use any conforming clothes because I'm addicted to dynamic clothes. The only exception I make is for boots and shoes and that are just the kind of "clothes" that are giving issues with DS autofit or any other cloth converter. I have dozens of shoes and hundreds, maybe thousands of poses for V4. They are completely useless for any genesis or poser figure. I had Philc's puppetmaster to convert poses between figures but that doesn't seem to work anymore since Poser8. ( it didn't support genesis* anyhow)

Just lets face it : V4 is the VHF for Poser and DAZstudio, there is so much content for her and new content still being made that users will think twice before they switch to another figure.

Bopper.

maybe thousands of poses for V4. They are completely useless for any genesis or poser figure.

Not quite:) Well regarding the G platforms that is. We found a way to salvage them. It's not available yet but will be "Soon" :)

There is already a way to convert any pose from one character to another. No need to reinvent the wheel.

http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/motionbuilder

And how many people are willing to learn a new app when they can get the conversion of their entire V4 pose directory, icons and paths all auto saved where ever they want with one click natively in their app of choice? Re-invent the wheel no. Convenience and time saving offered, yes. Not everybody likes to do things themselves. Hell if that was the case, why do people sell pose sets when everybody can just pose figures themselves? People will pay for convenience. If this was a do it yourself market, there wouldn't be a need for a content store and products.

"There is already a way to convert any pose from one character to another. No need to reinvent the wheel. http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/motionbuilder"

Well not every poser user has a student ID or is an "Educator" which is required to receive that free version in the link.

And I dont Imagine you are suggesting the poser users pay the $2500  (or whatever) for a full seat of motionbuilder and learn a whole new program. 

when many seem firmly opposed to learning a free program to get proper access to Genesis

Also Motionbuilder is a Character animation motion retargeting application Much like 

the Iclone Pro that I use for My animation work.

I suppose one could Export FBX from pro game dev  or Daz studio pro and apply a still pose  in Motionbuilder and somehow export it back to poser pro and then apply it vicky.

But frankly that would be a ridiculously circumnavigated way to pose your figure in poser.

But frankly that would be a ridiculously circumnavigated way to pose your figure in poser.

Nothing is too complex, too expensive, too long, too circumnavigated when the alternative is using Studio ;-).

I started using V4 seven years ago with Poser. She is probably the most versatile character I've run across to create my artistic ideas. I can quickly realize my vision with V4 and spend my time creating art instead of messing with the technical details.

I've tried using the Genesis characters via DSON but the G# characters and clothing were not built for efficient use inside Poser. I recently exported a G3 clothing item from DazStudio to OBJ and loaded it into Lightwave. Over 500,000 polygons! No wonder Poser creeps to a crawl trying to pose stuff like that.

@ Davidb367
Hi David, did you remove any SubD settings off the item before you exported it from DS?

No he didn't. G3 base is around 17k Poly's. 500k means he exported with a Sub-D level on.

V4 stands up pretty well by comparison to other figures. But Dawn Special Edition, as noted in other threads, looks great! Frankly, of the Poser native figures, I'd say Posette still looks the best. That's kind of sad (apologies to the Roxie fans). Antonia to KEZ.jpg

Hmm. Second pic.

I still use V4 because I still get the results I want with her and I still think she looks good , plus I've invested a lot of money in buying stuff to use on her and I'm not going to stop using her any time soon.

I've used G2 but I don't think she is easy to work with in poser and slows my system down, plus when an outfit doesn't fit her quite right the morphs to fix poke through are generally less, I also don't think in many cases she looks as good as results I can get using V4

I've played around with Daz when G3 came out but I really can't get used to daz and its a huge money sump to transfer over to it and get to a point where I can make renders close to what I can do in poser, also I don't see much difference in look between G2 and G3 so although it means less is now coming for V4 I will make do with what there is and stick with buying from vendors that support her

I still use V4 because it is it the most popular figure, that works in Poser, that vendors have offered lots of content for(until recently). I would like to see more fantasy clothing for her and some cute, innocent (fantasy as well) clothing for Seven's characters ( that cover boobs and butts please).

I use V4 because I love her... I have clothes, hair and anything else I could possibly want for her. And I use Poser because despite tutorials I can't make heads or tails out of DS. It's too frustrating for me.

Same as others have said I still use V4 because I have a load of stuff for the figure and it works well for everything I need. I'm not interested in buying/converting stuff for a newer figure. (I still use M3, A3 and H3 all the time too - never liked M4 much). I've just about stopped buying any new items for the last couple of years because I can't be bothered to wade through sites looking for stuff for V4 and I have so much stuff that I can re-texture and kit bash and convert - I'm never likely to run out. I would only move on from V4 if there was a new figure that actually offered something completely different that I really wanted and it hasn't happened yet.

There are several reasons.

1. I like the way V4 looks.
2. I have invested a lot of money in clothing, characters, hair, etc. and can make her look like just about any era/style character I want.
3. I love Poser and have tried DAZ Studio several times over the years and don't like it.
4. DSON did not work for me. I still couldn't really get V5 to work in Poser and I'm NOT switching to DAZ.
5. As someone who buys just about every new character that comes along, I have enough other women (Dawn, all the native Poser women since Poser 4 Pro, Michelle, Miki 4, TY2, etc.) that I can always switch characters if I can't get a V4 for the part or put them in a scene with V4 to get more versatility.

I must admit that I've been playing with Dawn, Dusk, and Luna the most lately but that may be more because the "new" hasn't worn off yet. Also, Dusk already seems to have more "normal" clothing than M4. I've been known to still use Posette on occasion. Aiko 3 was one of the prettiest characters so far and I think David was a great male figure. Why do so many people think we should just abandon the old figures for the new latest flavor of the month? I have seen some content for the newest Victoria versions that are really pretty and I'd love to have them--if they had V4 versions. I haven't seen a figure yet that makes me willing to use DAZ Studio, though. I keep hoping that one day Poser will ship with some decent looking human characters with good morphing options.

pigfish9 posted at 3:30PM Mon, 28 September 2015 - #4230539

I haven't seen a figure yet that makes me willing to use DAZ Studio, though. I keep hoping that one day Poser will ship with some decent looking human characters with good morphing options.

================================

Alyson 2 was actually really nice with a load of morphs and you can do a lot with her. There was a thread here a while ago for renders and it was a good showcase for what you can do with her. Her default looks bad though and I think that was one of the worst problems - that and lack of content. If I didn't have V4 I'd be using Alyson for my adult female renders, but it's just not worth converting my V4 stuff for her when I can just use V4 instead.

Miki4 is another figure I really like - but again, same problem. To use her I'd need to convert stuff from V4, so I just use V4 instead.

I invested heavily in V4, I have dozens of outfits I have yet to use... Besides, I am a story teller, making something look ultra real is fine, but many times I feel making something look ultra real actually detracts from the story line....

Poser Pro needs a subdivide feature, that way we can double V4's poly's then just sculpt her differently while preserving all of V4's assets and poses.

Screw DSON.

Glitterati3D posted at 10:00PM Sat, 03 October 2015 - #4211845

Roxie is ugly. Get over it.

You're 100% correct. In the hands of the Load, Pose, Render crowd, Roxie isn't pretty.

For the "I can't be bothered to read any instructions, particularly a 700 page user manual or a ReadMe" file, she's not particularly cute.

For the porn and T&A crowd, she's not their thing.

But, for those of us who bothered to learn the new features of Poser, to see what Poser is actually capable of, Roxie is perfection.

WOW! Well done, Glitterati!! Beautiful work - I just LOVE true creativity!

elfguy posted at 10:59PM Sat, 03 October 2015 - #4214505

Let's see...

I use Poser 7 and Vue 6.5. I also have around 600 content files, many of them V4 related.

What would it take for me to use the latest Genesis figure? Well, buy a new Poser version ($70) or learn DAZ, something I don't have time or the desire to do. I only use Vue for scene creation and rendering, and it's not going to support the latest Poser version, that means upgrading ($1,295).

Past all the re-learning and large expense for the software, then I would start with no content for those figures. That would mean buying all new clothing for them, another large expense.

So no, I have no desire to move away from V4.

Well put, particularly in this day and age of financial difficulties for most folk, including hobby-ists ... like me. I have paid enough, thank you. I have sent enough money to Daz3D for content I haven't even un-archived yet (double-clicking the .exe)... no, it's over. I've got enough, don't need any more "New Shiny".

Just read the whole thread. Usual bleats and groans from that "other software and figures" crowd... never sure why they are posting on a Poser forum. Maybe their own forum ... anyway.

I use V4 because I get good bending in Poser using the WM version. I pose in Poser, then set up my scene/materials/etc and render in Blender. I've got more content for V4 - purchased from Daz3D in a knee-jerk reflex, "gotta-have-this!" time of my life, a reflex that I've finally gotten control over - that I haven't even used yet so I'm done with that.

Software is all part of a workflow, usually Poser -> Blender, hardly ever the other way anymore. V4WM's happy, I'm happy, and my pocketbook is ecstatic.

I still use V4 for the same reason I occasionally use V3 or V2, and keep thinking about using Maya Doll (there's never enough time in my days). I have particular V4 content I want to use. And since I can use the Morph Tool, my own materials, Poser's subdivision, and Blender's many sculpting and modeling tools, I have no problem using pretty much anything I want. That said, precisely because I can make my own content, I'm beginning to prefer Dawn. I've absolutely never found a figure easier to morph. Well, and I like diversity. Outside of Miki, she's been the best at morphing to African and Asian characters. And while Miki 1 is better at both, Miki 4 isn't as well supported as Miki 1. Miki 4 has a decent mesh (though her eyeballs could use some work), but her less realistic looks have made her more replaceable and less well supported.

I also like Dawn because she works in both Poser and DS. While I (personally) still extremely dislike using DS, and can't stand the fact that there is no documentation for about 90% of its features, including almost all of Shader Mixer, I really love using Iray. I got V4 WM to load and work fine in DS, but she mangled after closing the program and re-opening the scene. That was seriously disappointing.

To be very honest, my biggest performance shift has been from Firefly to Iray (so much easier, more powerful, and quicker) and Poser to DS (so much less powerful and more clunky, due to lack of dynamics and the Morph tool). I used V4, V6, G3, and Dawn, and the biggest issues were the limitations of the software. I didn't get wildly improved results out of V6, and didn't see any point at all to G3. Though I did appreciate how the many years of experience- and an infrastructure our money funded- has allowed DAZ to start a figure off with tons of morphs before you spend any money. I was surprised at how much I could do with G3 if I had wanted. I couldn't inject some morphs into V4, and as I said, DS inexplicably mangled V4 WM after handling her just fine for hours (losing me a substantial amount of work).

I'd use Roxie if I had the time to work on her steadily, or if I needed yet another thin, baby-faced female figure of Northern European origins. She's not bad, just not outstanding in any aspect. But who knows, maybe one day I'll see something for her I really want to use.

"Why do you still use V4?"

I don't. Although I have gigs of content and characters (others and my own) for her. I don't really make pictures of people using premade content (in a conventional sense) anymore. If I do make that kind of imagery I have many, many other figures that weld, subdivide, and can be sculpted in Zbrush or postworked in Photoshop just as well. I still like Poser, but I think I might fall outside the concerns of this topic.

Nice to see you back on the forum Kobaltkween, the place could use your expert advice in regard to materials practice... the big guy seems to have lost his taste for the "community". Or at least that's the impression I get.

"Why are you still using V4?"

Is there some reason why we shouldn't?

I'm still using Stonemason's Urban Sprawl from more than a decade ago.

Besides, why should anyone else care what figures I render? Seriously. It's not like anyone from this site was actually looking at my renders. They should care even less, therefore, what content I used to create them. :D

trepleen posted at 9:50AM Tue, 06 October 2015 - #4232063

Poser Pro needs a subdivide feature, that way we can double V4's poly's then just sculpt her differently while preserving all of V4's assets and poses.

It can, as can Poser 10...

I was in Daz the other day trying to wrap my head around Genesis and the new figures. Do you need Genesis for V6/M6? Do characters for V6 also work on Genesis 2? What about clothing? And I see V7 and G3 don't list Poser under compatible software. Literally feel like I'm a newbie starting over. I closed the browser, poured a drink and pulled up V4 when I realized I don't have the finances to start a new relationship with new characters. :(

Kendra posted at 7:46PM Tue, 06 October 2015 - #4232574

I closed the browser, poured a drink and pulled up V4 when I realized I don't have the finances to start a new relationship with new characters. :(

LOLOL! Best answer ever! Monogamy!

Kendra is right! All that new Genesis mess is way to hard to use for me . I'll always use V4 because she is easy in every way I like. Don't have a lot of time to use Poser so I like it simple when I do.

"I was in Daz the other day trying to wrap my head around Genesis and the new figures. Do you need Genesis for V6/M6? Do characters for V6 also work on Genesis 2? What about clothing? And I see V7 and G3 don't list Poser under compatible software. Literally feel like I'm a newbie starting over. I closed the browser, poured a drink and pulled up V4 when I realized I don't have the finances to start a new relationship with new characters. :("

I am sure that if you read the information on the rather large selection of products in THIS store you would be able to sort out what they required and what figure they worked with. But I will go ahead and give you a few hints anyway.

"Do you need Genesis for V6/M6? Do characters for V6 also work on Genesis 2? " V6 and M6 are for Genesis 2 male and female. There are hundreds of products here for you to look at to see what the requirements are.

" And I see V7 and G3 don't list Poser under compatible software." Poser does not at this time support that industry standard.

Kendra posted at 11:31AM Wed, 07 October 2015 - #4232574

. I closed the browser, poured a drink and pulled up V4 when I realized I don't have the finances to start a new relationship with new characters. :(

You Da Bomb!!

Sadly, I'm sure some will take your joke as an excuse to start a software war...

Kendra posted at 10:13AM Wed, 07 October 2015 - #4232574

I closed the browser, poured a drink and pulled up V4 when I realized I don't have the finances to start a new relationship with new characters. :(

Yeah, these new characters require such high maintenance...

Yeah, no software wars please. :) But it does feel like if you don't live and breathe poser/daz it's a bit confusing. The only reason I was even considering moving up from M4 is that I need a decent tuxedo for the guy. Anyone know of an M4 Tux? James Bond style? I tried to make M3 Sade work but... no. I may spend the weekend in youtube with fitting room tutorials. I've yet to make that work.

Kendra posted at 9:13PM Wed, 07 October 2015 - #4232761

Yeah, no software wars please. :) But it does feel like if you don't live and breathe poser/daz it's a bit confusing. The only reason I was even considering moving up from M4 is that I need a decent tuxedo for the guy. Anyone know of an M4 Tux? James Bond style? I tried to make M3 Sade work but... no. I may spend the weekend in youtube with fitting room tutorials. I've yet to make that work.

That ship sailed quite a while back.

There is nothing that is as good as the Casablanca Suit for M3, but you can take almost anything into the fitting room and make it go. I would recommend actually learning the software - makes it easier.

Kendra posted at 3:04PM Thu, 08 October 2015 - #4232761

Yeah, no software wars please. :) But it does feel like if you don't live and breathe poser/daz it's a bit confusing. The only reason I was even considering moving up from M4 is that I need a decent tuxedo for the guy. Anyone know of an M4 Tux? James Bond style? I tried to make M3 Sade work but... no. I may spend the weekend in youtube with fitting room tutorials. I've yet to make that work.

There is a nice Tux for Genesis 2 Male. There is also a Double Breasted Suit for Genesis 2 Male (Came out with Scott.) (And the kind of suit that Ian Flemming wrote about Bond wearing when he wasn't in a casino. (There are a few other choices as well.)

If you really want M4 you might try the Marquis, if you want your Tux with tails, very similar to Sade. For Suits both Mafioso and the M4 Business Suit are pretty good.

Daz has a tux for M4, though I'm not sure it screams "Bond."

"Why are you still using V4?"

Because there is absolutely nothing better, or as detailed offered to Poser. Literally stuck in limbo waiting for something decent to work with.

I don't like Dawn's lack of detail.

I mostly render in Cinema 4D and sometimes Carrara in the past. So Genesis is no use for me. Transfering the characters is just annoying. I also have a lot of V4 content. Simple as that.

DAZ Studio has been in constant beta forever, but it's finally caught up to Poser and now surpassing it. But the Genesis figure system sucks rabbit droppings in Poser without 5 tons of work. If DAZ's main customer base grabbed DAZ Studio because it was free... that does not bode well for the 3rd party sales. Poser users are the money spenders... and they're stuck with Vicki4.

By Genesis 2, I'm guessing the market... that once allowed vendors to sell to the entire customer base... was now totally split. So sales have sucked donkey droppings ( bigger than rabbit droppings I have observed ).

Now DAZ, who used to have 2 big sales a year, is having a constant year round sale. Renderosity's 'Prime' has been turned into less of a membership and more of a vendor run circus.

But, Vicki7 spells death to Poser unless something drastic with Poser happens to compete with ... IRay... figures that bend like a dream without a need for any fixes... an even easier and better shadow renderer with 3Delight that offers immediate depth of field effects... with a shader system that now matches Poser's material room... with autofitting across generational characters.

I still mainly use V4... but the next Poser version better show me something to stick with it and V4.

My two cents

I'm so tempted to change my username to vertices