_Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. _

I don't see that as a viable option. QA has more than enough to do for us as is without having to check some list about final packaging and placement for download of the product. It would also be very confusing for customers.

Morpheon posted at 8:23PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236601

parkdalegardener posted at 5:15PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236490

I already have G1 and G2 running as Poser native. No DS needed. Took 10 minutes. I have props from DAZ that were in Studio formats when purchased. They are working in Lightwave, Poser, and Vue. Took less than 5 minutes. I have G3 running in Lightwave with a Lightwave rig. That too almost 45 minutes. It has a facial rig and uses the same skinning method as Studio.

And at some point in the next couple of weeks, I would love to talk to you about how you accomplished that. Since I'm starting out as a Poser noob, I haven't used DSON at all, and in looking through some threads about it, I keep coming up on references that it isn't even necessary. I would love to be able to expand my options by continuing to use Genesis and Genesis 2 in Poser and possibly Blender.

You start with File - Export...... No need for DSON - it is always going to be the weak link because it runs through python.

I am working on a tutorial for gettting your DS content working in Poser as Poser native files. I have portion on figures done, and now I am working my way through getting clothing working. Fun part begins with turning things like the Edwardian dress into a conforming/dynamic hybrid.

I was hoping to be done by now, but real life has been giving me a hard time lately.

ssgbryan posted at 3:22PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236612

Morpheon posted at 8:23PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236601

parkdalegardener posted at 5:15PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236490

I already have G1 and G2 running as Poser native. No DS needed. Took 10 minutes. I have props from DAZ that were in Studio formats when purchased. They are working in Lightwave, Poser, and Vue. Took less than 5 minutes. I have G3 running in Lightwave with a Lightwave rig. That too almost 45 minutes. It has a facial rig and uses the same skinning method as Studio.

And at some point in the next couple of weeks, I would love to talk to you about how you accomplished that. Since I'm starting out as a Poser noob, I haven't used DSON at all, and in looking through some threads about it, I keep coming up on references that it isn't even necessary. I would love to be able to expand my options by continuing to use Genesis and Genesis 2 in Poser and possibly Blender.

You start with File - Export...... No need for DSON - it is always going to be the weak link because it runs through python.

I am working on a tutorial for gettting your DS content working in Poser as Poser native files. I have portion on figures done, and now I am working my way through getting clothing working. Fun part begins with turning things like the Edwardian dress into a conforming/dynamic hybrid.

I was hoping to be done by now, but real life has been giving me a hard time lately.

While we're OT, just to ask the question, all of these Ports of Genesis (1,2 or 3) figures do feature all of the same functionality as Genesis does in Daz Studio with the same compatibility with all supporting products such as hair poses morphs etc?

Or are they closer to a nerfed/Hacked version using some of the foundations of the Genesis figures like the mesh and textures for example. In a effect a Genestein or Frankenesis figure? Because for example I would say the base Mesh is about 10% of what makes Genesis 3, Genesis 3 in Daz Studio.

I am asking because it may be great to have a figure in an alternate program, but where do all of the resources for it then come from then? It would seem like a full time job if everything for the new figure needs to be also hacked modified to work with the figure. And I do know to some there hobby is more based on this form of art and truly its amazing sometimes what they discover or cobble together to make work where it shouldn't. But for many they will basically just end up with a less functional figure with little supporting content. Making it not truly an alternative option. But more a tinkerers passion project.

So for example If I port Genesis to Poser as a native figure. And I really want to make Genesis into the Troll or Gorilla figure available at Daz3D for Genesis can I just buy this content and use it? Or do I need to use a hack type process and it may or may not work as expected depending on certain factors? Genesis 3 in Lightwave is awesome, what are my options for pants for the figure once there? It may help those considering this as an alternative to know what they're in for if they decide to pursue this option to maintain content viability.

@Razor42 You are correct there is some exceptions but the procedure is an ugly frankenstein affair. I export characters out of Daz for use in animation. I am stuck with the Genesis, Genesis 2 M&F and all of their derivatives. Pre Gen is out and Genesis 3 at this point is also a possibility and I have sent some versions out but the manual work required make this concept somewhat ordinary for the net result. I managed Laura but by time I finished it was a Genesis 2 Laura lookalike and sitting back looking at her it was apparent that the time spent was out of curiosity over any real desire to have Laura appear in a short film or music clip. Aiko 3 I would love to use Victoria 4 is another character I would really like to sort and to date I have managed to export and everything looks great some adjustments later she looks identical to the V4 in Daz. I have managed to overcome some issues. However as stunning as she is once gifted with a motion file bvh etc the sheer beauty soon becomes a thing of the past. There is nothing sexy about V4 when her breasts have passed through her body and trail a foot behind her. Good for one horror flick only I guess. The breastback of notre dame is a good starting point. Poser characters I can take them out no probs but I have to work on the motions using keyframe save I am currently creating a couple of simple walks etc in a curve editor to save the motion files and see how it goes in the target application I would only consider the couple of anime characters . Again with so much on the market these characters are so yesterday *(All platforms not a Poser dig) The earlier stuff can sure have a high polycount vs quality that is not really worth the trouble for animation, My Genesis clothed usually exceeds anything of similar setup on a G2 by 200'000. This is also why I am not too worried about the DRM the gaming industry is huge Daz are hardly going to be taking themselves out of the market. If I pay for the right to use I expect that right to be honored. I have other character builders that do a great job so I don't have to get down on my knees and beg for mercy either. Ability to do this stops the money stops and this would not be out of spite just no further use. I purchased Daz's 3D Morph characters packs in Unity a month or so ago so I am sure they have their interests well and truly in letting people carry on as normal.

Razor42 posted at 7:18AM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236618

While we're OT, just to ask the question, all of these Ports of Genesis (1,2 or 3) figures do feature all of the same functionality as Genesis does in Daz Studio with the same compatibility with all supporting products such as hair poses morphs etc?

Or are they closer to a nerfed/Hacked version using some of the foundations of the Genesis figures like the mesh and textures for example. In a effect a Genestein or Frankenesis figure? Because for example I would say the base Mesh is about 10% of what makes Genesis 3, Genesis 3 in Daz Studio.

I am asking because it may be great to have a figure in an alternate program, but where do all of the resources for it then come from then? It would seem like a full time job if everything for the new figure needs to be also hacked modified to work with the figure. And I do know to some there hobby is more based on this form of art and truly its amazing sometimes what they discover or cobble together to make work where it shouldn't. But for many they will basically just end up with a less functional figure with little supporting content. Making it not truly an alternative option. But more a tinkerers passion project.

So for example If I port Genesis to Poser as a native figure. And I really want to make Genesis into the Troll or Gorilla figure available at Daz3D for Genesis can I just buy this content and use it? Or do I need to use a hack type process and it may or may not work as expected depending on certain factors? Genesis 3 in Lightwave is awesome, what are my options for pants for the figure once there? It may help those considering this as an alternative to know what they're in for if they decide to pursue this option to maintain content viability.

Yep. It isn't a "hack". I can't speak to LPR001's issues with animation, I don't animate - I use Poser for illustrating graphic novels and the genesis 1 & 2 figures work just fine.

When I started my research, my goal was to get Dariofish's Aliens working in Poser for my Star Trek Fan-Fic, along with Luthbel's Cthulhu for my horror-fic. All the morph dials work in Poser. I haven't fooled around with the HD nonsense, but I other folks have - from what I remember, one had to push the subdivision in Poser up to 3 to see the difference. I have a couple of HD characters and they seem to run fine at sub-d 1. (Which is where you will take your genesis figures in Poser.)

Genesis 3 isn't an option at this point (so you won't have access to the fat chick) due to how the face is rigged. (Shrdavid built a G3 Sydney for Poser 8 that used facial rigging, but the Poser team went in another direction - the ability to add support for facial bones is there, but I don't know if a cost-benefit analysis shows it to be worthwhile.)

All genesis brings to the table is animatable joint centers (Which Poser has supported since at least Poser 5 that I am personally aware of - See Apollo Maximus from a decade ago.) and weight mapping along 3 axis, as opposed to Poser, which has weight mapping along 1 axis. That is the only difference.

If one goes this route, most of your time would be spent in restructuring what passes for a runtime in DS (and putting PCFs where they actually belong, as opposed to stuffing every conceivable file type under the Pose subfolder - or better yet, converting them to Poser-native files, to also eliminate the need for DSON - saving it out is a 2 second operation. There is 1 vendor that actually makes native Poser companion files, as opposed to the fake ones most DS vendors make). You have to do some planning ahead of time, due to the way DS generates a figure (example - many female characters come with a base gens - you would need to do some simple file rearranging to keep them from showing up on Skyler, for instance.) Most folks do that since there is no rhyme or reason to subfolder organization in DS anyway.

Whether exporting from DS via File - Export, or using DSON - a figure is built with every single morph the program can "see". This can make a figure quite RAM intensive. Again, planning ahead in runtime structure makes these problems go away.

But we should move back on topic.

One of the issues that hasn't been addressed vis-a-vis staying on DS 4.8 forever is if a future change to the underlying operating system that breaks DS 4.8. This has already happened more than once in the OSX world (10-4 to 10.5) - that's is why Hexagon didn't work under OSX for 4 years. How many of you are willing to chance that? DAZ depreciates earlier versions as each new version is released.

ssgbryan posted at 6:20PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236680

One of the issues that hasn't been addressed vis-a-vis staying on DS 4.8 forever is if a future change to the underlying operating system that breaks DS 4.8. This has already happened more than once in the OSX world (10-4 to 10.5) - that's is why Hexagon didn't work under OSX for 4 years. How many of you are willing to chance that? DAZ depreciates earlier versions as each new version is released.

Maybe, bit by bit, Studio might not be the only game in town...

ssgbryan posted at 12:34PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236680

One of the issues that hasn't been addressed vis-a-vis staying on DS 4.8 forever is if a future change to the underlying operating system that breaks DS 4.8. This has already happened more than once in the OSX world (10-4 to 10.5) - that's is why Hexagon didn't work under OSX for 4 years. How many of you are willing to chance that? DAZ depreciates earlier versions as each new version is released.

If you're referring when Apple dropped Rosetta support, then your argument is very misleading as every piece of software broke that relied on it, requiring you to upgrade to programs that used the intel architecture exclusively. Very few of those upgrades were free and some programs just died in the transition. There is a development cost to updating programs, if resources aren't there at the time to do the work, the updating won't happen until those resources are freed... because that's how businesses work. The thing about OS upgrades, particularly on a Mac is that you aren't guaranteed a free upgrade if you decide to switch to a new OS. Apple even killed some of their own programs with no replacement when you moved to a different OS, so I'm not sure why you would single out DAZ for something Apple (and Microsoft) does too when you update. Keep in mind also when people upgraded to IE11, it killed their versions of Poser until SM made a patch for the newer versions, but some versions got depreciated as a result.

@LPR001 have you tried the MDD/Obj export options??

I am using this methodology to get genesis 1 ,2 figures animated in maxon c4d .

It's quite a smooth pipeline.

Khory_D posted at 11:53AM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236609

_Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. _

I don't see that as a viable option. QA has more than enough to do for us as is without having to check some list about final packaging and placement for download of the product. It would also be very confusing for customers.

Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted. Which is what is the problem with the way DAZ is going about it, some people just will not tolerate encrypted content on general principle. So the question is, will the customers they lose through encryption be offset by incoming new customers from the warez sites? Survey says... never happened in the past for entertainment software. That's why companies moved away from it. It's not that DRM can't work, it's just that it never generates increased sales. Or does anybody have something that shows that isn't true?

The only times I know of that DRM has increased sales is if the software is used by businesses that can be sued if caught using unlicensed versions.

You can't increase sales by inconveniencing your customers.

diogenese19348 posted at 1:38PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236699

Khory_D posted at 11:53AM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236609

_Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. _

I don't see that as a viable option. QA has more than enough to do for us as is without having to check some list about final packaging and placement for download of the product. It would also be very confusing for customers.

Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted. Which is what is the problem with the way DAZ is going about it, some people just will not tolerate encrypted content on general principle. So the question is, will the customers they lose through encryption be offset by incoming new customers from the warez sites? Survey says... never happened in the past for entertainment software. That's why companies moved away from it. It's not that DRM can't work, it's just that it never generates increased sales. Or does anybody have something that shows that isn't true?

The only times I know of that DRM has increased sales is if the software is used by businesses that can be sued if caught using unlicensed versions.

You can't increase sales by inconveniencing your customers.

It's not about increasing sales, DRM isn't a incentive to buy, it is for those that want to use it that did not pay for it or do not abide by the licensing agreement of the product. So it may not get people to buy it that would not buy it anyway, but it does attempt to protect more of the casual piracy that goes on and sends a message that this type of sharing isn't condoned where not protecting it in light of piracy sends a totally opposite message.

In the past, there was less of a need for certain things to be protected because of the ecosystem where sites, customers and the producer kept the whole thing honest or had a recourse to remove content that was illegal. If a file was illegally hosted, all the copyright user had to do was to make a request to take it down and the site abided by that, which in term kept the consumer ease of use high. However the system is broken to the point that the copyright holder has no choice but to add more protection to the product because the sites aren't honoring the take down notices, which then inconveniences the consumer.

Male_M3dia posted at 3:38PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236723

diogenese19348 posted at 1:38PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236699

Khory_D posted at 11:53AM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236609

_Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. _

I don't see that as a viable option. QA has more than enough to do for us as is without having to check some list about final packaging and placement for download of the product. It would also be very confusing for customers.

Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted. Which is what is the problem with the way DAZ is going about it, some people just will not tolerate encrypted content on general principle. So the question is, will the customers they lose through encryption be offset by incoming new customers from the warez sites? Survey says... never happened in the past for entertainment software. That's why companies moved away from it. It's not that DRM can't work, it's just that it never generates increased sales. Or does anybody have something that shows that isn't true?

The only times I know of that DRM has increased sales is if the software is used by businesses that can be sued if caught using unlicensed versions.

You can't increase sales by inconveniencing your customers.

It's not about increasing sales, DRM isn't a incentive to buy, it is for those that want to use it that did not pay for it or do not abide by the licensing agreement of the product. So it may not get people to buy it that would not buy it anyway, but it does attempt to protect more of the casual piracy that goes on and sends a message that this type of sharing isn't condoned where not protecting it in light of piracy sends a totally opposite message.

In the past, there was less of a need for certain things to be protected because of the ecosystem where sites, customers and the producer kept the whole thing honest or had a recourse to remove content that was illegal. If a file was illegally hosted, all the copyright user had to do was to make a request to take it down and the site abided by that, which in term kept the consumer ease of use high. However the system is broken to the point that the copyright holder has no choice but to add more protection to the product because the sites aren't honoring the take down notices, which then inconveniences the consumer.

Hey, I'm an artist, and I know the pain of somebody ripping off your work, going so far as removing your watermarks, adding theirs, and claiming they created it. But from a business standpoint, the only reason to bother with DRM to start with is the idea that reduced piracy increases sales. That just has never been statistically proven for entertainment digital items in any form. Now if DAZ discovered there is a black market for the SALE of DAZ content, that might be addressable with DRM. Or better yet legal avenues. I personally don't have any problem continuing to buy DRM items from DAZ as long as that DRM does not get in the way of me using the items. I just don't think it is going to do them any good in increasing sales. I'm also not sure it was the wisest idea to publicly admit on their own forum that there were places you could find DAZ content for free. They'd probably have been better off not advertising that.

diogenese19348 posted at 5:10PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236751

Male_M3dia posted at 3:38PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236723

diogenese19348 posted at 1:38PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236699

Khory_D posted at 11:53AM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236609

_Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. _

I don't see that as a viable option. QA has more than enough to do for us as is without having to check some list about final packaging and placement for download of the product. It would also be very confusing for customers.

Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted. Which is what is the problem with the way DAZ is going about it, some people just will not tolerate encrypted content on general principle. So the question is, will the customers they lose through encryption be offset by incoming new customers from the warez sites? Survey says... never happened in the past for entertainment software. That's why companies moved away from it. It's not that DRM can't work, it's just that it never generates increased sales. Or does anybody have something that shows that isn't true?

The only times I know of that DRM has increased sales is if the software is used by businesses that can be sued if caught using unlicensed versions.

You can't increase sales by inconveniencing your customers.

It's not about increasing sales, DRM isn't a incentive to buy, it is for those that want to use it that did not pay for it or do not abide by the licensing agreement of the product. So it may not get people to buy it that would not buy it anyway, but it does attempt to protect more of the casual piracy that goes on and sends a message that this type of sharing isn't condoned where not protecting it in light of piracy sends a totally opposite message.

In the past, there was less of a need for certain things to be protected because of the ecosystem where sites, customers and the producer kept the whole thing honest or had a recourse to remove content that was illegal. If a file was illegally hosted, all the copyright user had to do was to make a request to take it down and the site abided by that, which in term kept the consumer ease of use high. However the system is broken to the point that the copyright holder has no choice but to add more protection to the product because the sites aren't honoring the take down notices, which then inconveniences the consumer.

Hey, I'm an artist, and I know the pain of somebody ripping off your work, going so far as removing your watermarks, adding theirs, and claiming they created it. But from a business standpoint, the only reason to bother with DRM to start with is the idea that reduced piracy increases sales. That just has never been statistically proven for entertainment digital items in any form. Now if DAZ discovered there is a black market for the SALE of DAZ content, that might be addressable with DRM. Or better yet legal avenues. I personally don't have any problem continuing to buy DRM items from DAZ as long as that DRM does not get in the way of me using the items. I just don't think it is going to do them any good in increasing sales. I'm also not sure it was the wisest idea to publicly admit on their own forum that there were places you could find DAZ content for free. They'd probably have been better off not advertising that.

DRM isn't a feature for selling products, as I said. It's a means to protect products from authorized use as the methods that could be use to removed unauthorized content from sites no longer work.

@ssgbryan Look forward to checking out your novel it is always interesting to see the different uses for both Daz and Poser. I find both very good for album covers

ssgbryan mentions "But we should move back on topic". As long as it involves Daz the issues affecting you with the update, import-export, The positives noticed by the members that are currently on 4.9 (please post your observations) Negatives do that too, Daz products in Poser etc and theories regarding the future compatability (without bashing either brand or individual ) these are all fine and relevant Just be friendly to each other and if need be challenge a point but at all times show respect towards your fellow members. In other words you are free to venture slightly as this change may have issues outside the Daz Studio environment. Just keep it sweet and all will be fine :-) Thank you

I know that Daz has the (Extended) gaming license I wonder with DRM whether an export license will be required even to use in external apps not under the gaming banner. Like animation even Maya etc. Any whispers??? It won't be the first Co' to do this.

"Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted."

No one holds PA's in chains to keep them working at any brokerage. If they choose to leave then they leave.

"Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted."

Must have missed those when I was still following that thread, or they posted such after I dropped out. The only content creator I was aware of was Zev0, and he was all for it.

wolf359 posted at 6:05PM Wed, 04 November 2015 - #4236692

@LPR001 have you tried the MDD/Obj export options??

I am using this methodology to get genesis 1 ,2 figures animated in maxon c4d .

It's quite a smooth pipeline.

Thanks wolf359 I will check it out My process is usually FBX then convert if needed depending where they heading. My Genesis & Genesis 2 M&F the V's G's etc that are compatible with that base all work perfectly for me. Plus with Akeytsu, Mocap and fully packed motion library I must have just about every move a human can make on file. Lot of 30 second loops which take a lot of pain out. Pre Genesis is a different matter V4.2 backwards they get a little ordinary to say the least. DIM or DRM it will take more than either to fix that lol Probably not worth it as not short of Gens and other Non Daz characters. With the merch resources and morphs just make them if no time buy them in. I think it will be a while before I run out of options in the Genesis/2 department

I say this again. My biggest concern isn't daz going DRM. Hell Daz could make a usb dongle that a butt plug. That you must insert into your ass at all time in order to use Daz 4.9 That be no problem to me. I just stick to 4.8. Now what worries me if Daz went to Hivewire,rendoerotica, runtime,and even here an force these stores to use Daz connect on their products. Or Daz simply buy them put em into it ecosystem. Maybe Daz will simply no longer allow non-Connect products to be imported into their software, thus making it impossible to purchase DS content outside of Daz3d. Then I have no choice but to go to Daz 4.9. Then again there Poser and Adobe fuse.

Again. Older content and ones from other sites will be installed the same as it always has been. Only new content sold at Daz via Daz connect will have DRM protection to protect content they sell. Will Daz eventually add DRM for old content they sell? Maybe maybe not. But why would Daz deny other external parties making content for their figures or app? It's free advertising for them, and there is no benefit to denying them the ability to do so, and as far as I know, is not even something Daz is thinking about.

@leeduva How about you try to keep your future comments out of the gutter. I have shown a lot of leniency on this entire thread letting you all blow off a bit of steam, speculate even the odd scrap and considering the circumstances all members have managed things very well. There is no place for comments that can be offensive to other members keep it clean please.

LPR001 posted at 5:05PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237049

@leeduva How about you try to keep your future comments out of the gutter. I have shown a lot of leniency on this entire thread letting you all blow off a bit of steam, speculate even the odd scrap and considering the circumstances all members have managed things very well. There is no place for comments that can be offensive to other members keep it clean please.

Forgive my comments. An let me rephrase it then. Daz can come out an say in order for me to use Daz 4.9. I have to disclose my Social security,bank account,employment
history,and ten people who can vouch for my character. That I won't pirate,harass,or other activities that Daz don't agree with. That fine. I will not complain,nor will I argue them to change their policy. I will simply not upgrade to 4.9. My biggist concern is that Daz will buy,threaten,or pressure. Site like Rend,Hivewire,rundna,renderotica,and other to comply with Daz connect using their EULA. That is my concern. But again There Poser,Makehuman,Adobe/Mixamo fuse. So if Daz in the future goes that route. Then I just use those 3 software that I mention.

I doubt very seriously that Daz has any intention of forcing other sites to comply with Daz Connect. That would cause them to lose a lot of customers. The people running Daz are not going to make a bad business move that will cost them a lot of customers. The bottom line is the bottom line, and, like all other content providers, they're in it to make a decent profit which they won't do if their customers start leaving. So there's, IMO, nothing to worry about.

"The people running Daz are not going to make a bad business move that will cost them a lot of customers" REALLY ? You have read the thread at DAZ, most of it is concerned with the DRM aspect of the program. Also it has been repeatedly stated that older content will be will be repackaged to be available through the Connect system. Therefore I can see a time when Connect is the only way to get products into DS thus forcing non-Daz vendors to go that route. leeduva makes an interesting point. I've decided not to upgrade - This means I'll not be buying anything from DAZ.

This'll be the only comment I'll make for the time being (I've got other things to occupy me) Have A Nice Day!

leeduva posted at 11:39PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237122

LPR001 posted at 5:05PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237049

@leeduva How about you try to keep your future comments out of the gutter. I have shown a lot of leniency on this entire thread letting you all blow off a bit of steam, speculate even the odd scrap and considering the circumstances all members have managed things very well. There is no place for comments that can be offensive to other members keep it clean please.

Forgive my comments. An let me rephrase it then. Daz can come out an say in order for me to use Daz 4.9. I have to disclose my Social security,bank account,employment
history,and ten people who can vouch for my character. That I won't pirate,harass,or other activities that Daz don't agree with. That fine. I will not complain,nor will I argue them to change their policy. I will simply not upgrade to 4.9. My biggist concern is that Daz will buy,threaten,or pressure. Site like Rend,Hivewire,rundna,renderotica,and other to comply with Daz connect using their EULA. That is my concern. But again There Poser,Makehuman,Adobe/Mixamo fuse. So if Daz in the future goes that route. Then I just use those 3 software that I mention.

What your talking about is actually impossible. First of all it would make it impossible to actually create any products at all if Studio only used connect downloaded files. When we create we have to use the files we just created and they would not be via connect. Not sure who thought up that rumor but they really did not think it through before they went public with it.

It is unlikely that Daz would buy out any of the other brokerages at this point. I don't think there would be any benefit for them finacialy and there are actually benefits to having the other brokerages around. Threaten...You make them sound like the mob which they are not. And just what threat would they use? "You better try harder to prevent piracy or we are going to break your virtual corporate thumbs"? Like that would work. They have no need and no leverage to try and coerce any other brokerage into adding encryption. It is not their job to cut down pirating for the other brokerages anyway. Nor do they want to have everyone download through them no matter where products are sold. They would incur all the server costs and hassles with no monetary gain on their part. And that would be the only way to get those files connected to connect.

The EULA for every company is a legal document that protects that companies rights. The idea of using any other companies EULA kind of laughable when you think about it. It is like saying you expect Macy's to tell Sears that they need to use their forms from now on. How stupid would that be? They would all still say Macy's and refer to things that Sears does not have.

I have to ask what your intent is with the bit about you having to disclose extra information? Do you anticipate other brokerages to do that in order to track down pirates? It wouldn't really be in any companies best interest to have that information or access to it unless they were a bank or similar. They would then have to safeguard it for one thing. All businesses care about is the information they need to be paid and even try and make sure that the charge company has the cc information rather than that it be on store servers. If your saying they might need that information to turn in pirates that would be unnecessary. Police agencies would be the ones who needed the information and they have ways of finding it out without any store needing to supply it. Just the same way a big box department store does not need that information to turn in a shop lifter.

GeofiX posted at 12:32AM Fri, 06 November 2015 - #4237166

"The people running Daz are not going to make a bad business move that will cost them a lot of customers" REALLY ? You have read the thread at DAZ, most of it is concerned with the DRM aspect of the program. Also it has been repeatedly stated that older content will be will be repackaged to be available through the Connect system. Therefore I can see a time when Connect is the only way to get products into DS thus forcing non-Daz vendors to go that route. leeduva makes an interesting point. I've decided not to upgrade - This means I'll not be buying anything from DAZ.

This'll be the only comment I'll make for the time being (I've got other things to occupy me) Have A Nice Day!

And it has been repeatedly stated that it will be available for other types of download as well. Studio has to use non encrypted files during the creation process and always will have to in order for there to be any content created. Daz is a brokerage and they need content to stay in business. Nor do they want to prevent people who are not Daz PA's from creating content. There are to many benefits to them when content is created and sold elsewhere.

Zev0 posted at 2:46PM Fri, 06 November 2015 - #4237034

Again. Older content and ones from other sites will be installed the same as it always has been. Only new content sold at Daz via Daz connect will have DRM protection to protect content they sell. Will Daz eventually add DRM for old content they sell? Maybe maybe not. But why would Daz deny other external parties making content for their figures or app? It's free advertising for them, and there is no benefit to denying them the ability to do so, and as far as I know, is not even something Daz is thinking about.

FYI - It has already been stated by DAZ that all content, new and old, downloaded thru DAZ Connect will be encrypted.

It has also been stated that content will continue to be available through account download and DIM.

I started reading about DAZ Studio 4.9 and DAZ Connect yesterday. At first I was really irritated. I don't like someone telling me I can't move my content around. I hate DRM.

My biggest gripe was that DAZ had no rhyme or reason when it came to installing their content. But I got awfully tired trying to manually install my content. Now the Search function appears to work for me. I'm ok with the changes.

In DAZ forums even DAZ people are openly admitting that this DRM scheme does not deter pirates and users are sloooowly starting to realize that all this stuff is just a ruse to enforce the use of DazConnect, the first step on the slippery slope (as rightly defined over there) to a cloud-only solution.

Mark my words: if this DazConnect thing sticks, the real DRM, a cloud only environment, is just a few years down the road so, fight determinately against it (with the only weapon DAZ people consider, i.e. your wallet) and, in the mean time, find yourself an exit strategy.

Needless to remark that DAZ PAs have to follow the party line and harshly disagree ;-).

chaecuna posted at 7:08PM Sat, 07 November 2015 - #4237314

In DAZ forums even DAZ people are openly admitting that this DRM scheme does not deter pirates and users are sloooowly starting to realize that all this stuff is just a ruse to enforce the use of DazConnect, the first step on the slippery slope (as rightly defined over there) to a cloud-only solution.

Mark my words: if this DazConnect thing sticks, the real DRM, a cloud only environment, is just a few years down the road so, fight determinately against it (with the only weapon DAZ people consider, i.e. your wallet) and, in the mean time, find yourself an exit strategy. Needless to remark that DAZ PAs have to follow the party line and harshly disagree ;-).

Says who? If that's the case I didn't get the memo.

As far as the rest of the comment goes maybe your coming at it from the school of Chicken Little?

Just to humour you for a minute what advantage would there be for Daz in moving to a cloud solution only? Wouldn't the very idea of how much content is available make it totally unworkable for the majority of users not to mention a nightmare to deliver? Also I'm not sure where the "ruse" is here? Which part of what Daz has said that makes you feel like you have been tricked or misled? It always amazes me the amount of conspiracy theories abound that make absolutely zero business sense.

On that note I found this vital information resource for you http://www.firstslice.com/craziest-conspiracy-theories-ever-9-11-illuminati-lizard-people</http:>

....232..23.,,; It seems that the mind control implant that Daz implanted in me is finally starting to breaaaakakkkdddow. br.., br ..:,: I can finally tell all about the evil plaaannsdsa,,.:,.,,.,. What you are saying Chae is %100 riiggggn ....sfsdf, *

• Hmm that was strange, what was I saying that's right, Daz3D are just so Awesome! Lol

Do you have anything new Chae? Or just trying to stoke the coals of this thread?

chaecuna posted at 12:38PM Sat, 07 November 2015 - #4237314

In DAZ forums even DAZ people are openly admitting that this DRM scheme does not deter pirates and users are sloooowly starting to realize that all this stuff is just a ruse to enforce the use of DazConnect, the first step on the slippery slope (as rightly defined over there) to a cloud-only solution.

Mark my words: if this DazConnect thing sticks, the real DRM, a cloud only environment, is just a few years down the road so, fight determinately against it (with the only weapon DAZ people consider, i.e. your wallet) and, in the mean time, find yourself an exit strategy.

Needless to remark that DAZ PAs have to follow the party line and harshly disagree ;-).

Ummm actually, behind closed doors at the round table, (a place where PA's chat) there are quite a few who are against DRM simply because they do not understand what it is about. A few of us actually went to Daz HQ to attend the briefing, and those that did, understand that there is no impact at all really in how you use content, and that this general fear of DRM is based on passed crappy implemented DRM experiences from other companies, which is just being projected onto Daz when nobody has even seen what the Daz one is actually about. But it's natural to fear what you do not understand. I say wait till you get your first DRM product, and then decide from there if you want to leave.

Khory_D posted at 7:02AM Sat, 07 November 2015 - #4237169

GeofiX posted at 12:32AM Fri, 06 November 2015 - #4237166

"The people running Daz are not going to make a bad business move that will cost them a lot of customers" REALLY ? You have read the thread at DAZ, most of it is concerned with the DRM aspect of the program. Also it has been repeatedly stated that older content will be will be repackaged to be available through the Connect system. Therefore I can see a time when Connect is the only way to get products into DS thus forcing non-Daz vendors to go that route. leeduva makes an interesting point. I've decided not to upgrade - This means I'll not be buying anything from DAZ.

This'll be the only comment I'll make for the time being (I've got other things to occupy me) Have A Nice Day!

And it has been repeatedly stated that it will be available for other types of download as well. Studio has to use non encrypted files during the creation process and always will have to in order for there to be any content created. Daz is a brokerage and they need content to stay in business. Nor do they want to prevent people who are not Daz PA's from creating content. There are to many benefits to them when content is created and sold elsewhere.

Also consider the freebie maker community as well. Not everyone wants to sell, so it wouldn't make sense to eliminate this community from making content.

Zev0 posted at 7:07AM Sat, 07 November 2015 - #4237324

chaecuna posted at 12:38PM Sat, 07 November 2015 - #4237314

In DAZ forums even DAZ people are openly admitting that this DRM scheme does not deter pirates and users are sloooowly starting to realize that all this stuff is just a ruse to enforce the use of DazConnect, the first step on the slippery slope (as rightly defined over there) to a cloud-only solution.

Mark my words: if this DazConnect thing sticks, the real DRM, a cloud only environment, is just a few years down the road so, fight determinately against it (with the only weapon DAZ people consider, i.e. your wallet) and, in the mean time, find yourself an exit strategy.

Needless to remark that DAZ PAs have to follow the party line and harshly disagree ;-).

Ummm actually, behind closed doors at the round table, (a place where PA's chat) there are quite a few who are against DRM simply because they do not understand what it is about. A few of us actually went to Daz HQ to attend the briefing, and those that did, understand that there is no impact at all really in how you use content, and that this general fear of DRM is based on passed crappy implemented DRM experiences from other companies, which is just being projected onto Daz when nobody has even seen what the Daz one is actually about. But it's natural to fear what you do not understand. I say wait till you get your first DRM product, and then decide from there if you want to leave.

DRM is a small part of what DAZ Connect is, so it would pay to wait and keep the fear mongering to a minimum and understand the other parts of what DAZ Connect is.

Also Cloud only content? Considering some products can be 1gb or more, I would think that would be an unworkable solution for people with limited internet connections or bandwidth restrictions. I know I would get notes and charges from my ISP if I kept downloading a 1gb item (which would take about 20 or more minutes each to even download) to use in multiple scenes. It would be like "Let me get multiple gigs of content from the cloud for just this one scene. Let me do this before I go to bed and it should be done by the time I wake up. Oh, I forgot this item; let me run to the store while it downloads."

It would pay to actually think through what you are suggesting before posting as wild speculations like this can be easily shot down.

Last night I downloaded the Beta and gave Daz Connect a try, and so far it appears it's not nearly as bad as people are making it out to be.

And it should also be mentioned that it appears that once you download an item, it stays downloaded and installed, so if you have a 1 GB item you only need to download it once.

As wheatpenny pointed out, the incremental product updates are going to be great for me being on limited data.

Apologee's if i appeared to trivalise your concerns chae, but really speculating in such ways just appears to be stirring the pot for the sake of it. If you have serious questions about Daz Connect there are plenty here willing to help you out with answers.

@chaecuna don't forget only one thread over you were saying us "mommy-knows-best moderators" should be shooting down this sort of behaviour.

Interesting discussion. I've seen many comments about how long it would take for pirates to rebuild content. I do have a question though. Given that you can export as a cr2 then open it in ds and use the transfer utility to copy weightmapping and morphs across. How long would it take to crack the encryption for rigged characters? I use this method to import morphs that have been created for poser to Dawn. It generally takes me less than an hour to do.

Another concern I have is that I like to move things around in the parameter tabs so it is easier to find morphs. Will I still be able to do this in a notepad type editor?

Here is one thing I don't like about the situation, that no one has touched on.

In past experience the implementation of simple, small updates have led to a downturn in quality. It turns into meeting a time line release before insuring that all the kinks are worked out. I.e. it is easy to fall into the trap of "let's see what happens, we can always fix it quick."

I am not saying that this will happen, just that it is human nature to follow this direction.

In general, Razor42 post does not warrant anything beyond a mention to the "Everyone Is Now Dumber" clip from Billy Madison (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcjIestFVOc).

Unfortunately, inside that post there is a very dangerous deliberate lie. I realized that it is possible that readers of this thread have a naive idea of what a cloud-based is, how it is structured and how it works so, in order dispel that lie (and to provide further nightmare fuel) I will briefly talk about this evil brain vomit called cloud-based application (developing which is incidentally my day job).

Interestingly, there are two 3D related cloud-based application that we can examine: Tinkercad by Autodesk (evil? check, anti-customer? check, Autodesk? check) and Clara.io. They are both cloud-based 3D modeling applications; Tinkercad is more CAD-like, Clara.io more similar to standard polygonal modeling applications.

Tinkercad is available here (https://www.tinkercad.com/) and Clara.io here (https://clara.io/). I use "available" with comedic purpose, because there is nothing, in those two applications, that is available in the conventional sense. What you do with those applications is to register to their respective web sites and then navigate (with your web browser) to appropriate URL, login and begin work with them. Nothing at all is installed on your computer, the user interface part (HTML and Javascript) is loaded by your broser and executed inside it; everything else (processing, data storage and data itself) resides inside the cloud. Unless you are logged into your account, you can do nothing for the simple reason that there is nothing (either data or executables) on your computer. You can see by yourself how the thing ticks watching two videos, one for Tinkercad (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwjWT-EvKSU) and one for Clara.io (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EF-T0moiGg). Going back to DAZ, the web-based version of Studio was announced years ago and never afterwards did DAZ officially state that the idea had been killed. So, the "distribution of content would be a nighmare" lie, is just that, a lie, since a cloud-based application is all about not distributing either content or execution (and Razor42 is certainly well aware of this).

The continued DAZ indifference to those pointing out that the DRM scheme is leaky is a dead giveaway that DAZ sees no need for a strong DRM scheme... in Studio, which can only be rationally explained by a future in which the Studio we know is a tool reserved for content developers and is as embargoed as nowadays are HD tools. For everybody outside the PAs elite, the logical final step is a super-duper Platinum club, with access to DAZ Cloud, with content and rendering capabilities, accessed with the web-based Studio version.

Piracy is killed, since DAZ content never physically leave DAZ controlled servers and, as much important, users are completely hostage of DAZ. When DAZ changes PC fee, users can either suck it up and pay or end their subscription, loosing access to everything. Did you notice how many people recently wrote posts to the tune of "I have enough content for 10 years, I can wait"? with a cloud architecture you do not wait. Either you pay or you change hobby. In general, subscription-based software, software-as-service, is the high tech version of a mob racket: pay or else, with the added bonus that the scheme is even legal ;-).

Only DAZ vendors (like Razor42), mesmerized with the naive dream of fabulous revenues thanks to the elimination of piracy and the rackeeteering scheme imposed on users can salute this future as advisable; everybody else has to loose from it. I wrote naive dream because when such situation is established/is being established a big market opportunity for a different approach rises and market opportunities are are always filled. Just an example: in the prehistory of computing some compiler vendors tried to make developers pay royalties for the programs they distributed: immediately, other vendors went in the opposite direction (the one which is standard since decades) and those leeches are nothing more an irrelevant footnote in the history of computing.

LPR001 posted at 12:08AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4236072

@Writers_Block With Daz or any Biz/Co if you entered a contract to purchase goods between this date and that date and clicked agree you have purchased them under those rules and conditions as with any business transaction you keep your records and a copy of the agreed terms. I have always had a good run with Daz and do rate them highly with their conduct and if I have had an issue which is only a handful in all these years it has always gone in my favour and they have fixed the issue. I am sure Daz are getting the message loud and clear about people's feelings and I seriously doubt they are going to block access to a customer's previous purchases nor was it ever their intention. Besides if they did I would just say "Don't make me jump in my Volkswagen and head down there to sort this out" they will know I am already ticked off and on the warpath. I have spent a lot of money on content there and I fully expect that content to remain in my possession long after this all dies down

There customer service has always been spot on, I'm not concerned with that. My main issue is their rampant deletion of posts. It suggests something dishonest, at least to me.

Khory_D posted at 12:08AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4236069

"I am not so sure on the cloud side it is a wait and see."

Why? Nothing bad has happened with DIM and it is the exact same sort of cloud set up.

"I'm not against them protecting their products, I'm against them refusing to answer how we can be sure we won't lose access to it."

I'm not sure how many more ways they have to say stuff. First, you can always keep using DIM or zips. Second, the only way you lose access is if something goes wrong on your computer. Pretty much the same kind of goes wrong that would nuke the serial number in the program itself. Once you have the content on your computer its there till you remove it. The cloud stores content you have not yet installed or have removed. If you install it it is on your computer. This is basically the same exact set up as DIM that people have been using for several years now. The only big change is ease of use for those of us who want that.

Funny how you address everything except what I'm most annoyed at. Deleted posts.

So, the "distribution of content would be a nighmare" lie, is just that, a lie, since a cloud-based application is all about not distributing either content or execution (and Razor42 is certainly well aware of this).

It's still content distribution whether it is installed on your hard drive or lives in a cloud somewhere for your use. And pointing out two apps that are of a totally different type is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. Daz Studio is not a 3d modelling app which can work cloud based much more easily, it's a content platform which is much harder to implement as cloud based successfully. Spotify is cloud based, It doesn't mean there is any advantage to Apple turning to a full cloud based solution for itunes. If Daz Connect did evolve as you speculate into a cloud base solution, I would unfortunately not be able to use the platform at that point, as I live in the country and for me to download 2-3 gigs for a scene would take somewhere between 3-4 hrs and consume a large chunk of my monthly data allowance. So Daz3D's grand plan is to make their program unusable for a good percentage of their customers and PA's. You really haven't thought this through have you?

You're implying that DAZ3D are willing to put piracy protection over user experience to the degree it would make the app unusable and there business vulnerable. That's just irrational nonsense. So any actual data to back your story up or we just need to rely on your gut instinct for this future of Overlord Daz who is going to spoil everybodies fun? No DRM is 100% ironclad, No company ever has expected there DRM to be 100% ironclad forever, Do companies use DRM still to protect their content. Yes!

Frankly, I find most of your last post to be full of rambling and disinformation and quite insulting really insinuating that I am dumb, naive and a Liar seems like you are just trying to fire me up. But honestly I have work to do today :) If you have anything more solid than your gut instinct or internal doom and gloom radar. Let me know.

Have a look here: Disinformation, ring any bells?

@Writers_Block you will get no argument from me over the deletion of posts although I don't know what they contain if they are in breach of the Daz TOS then that is appropriate there are some posts on here that perhaps should have gone that way but I am giving some room to vent in a civil manner. If they are removing the posts because the questions are not to their liking then I would think that is not the best option and only serves to increase speculation.

Male_M3dia posted at 1:18AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4236723

diogenese19348 posted at 1:38PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236699

Khory_D posted at 11:53AM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236609

_Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. _

I don't see that as a viable option. QA has more than enough to do for us as is without having to check some list about final packaging and placement for download of the product. It would also be very confusing for customers.

Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted. Which is what is the problem with the way DAZ is going about it, some people just will not tolerate encrypted content on general principle. So the question is, will the customers they lose through encryption be offset by incoming new customers from the warez sites? Survey says... never happened in the past for entertainment software. That's why companies moved away from it. It's not that DRM can't work, it's just that it never generates increased sales. Or does anybody have something that shows that isn't true?

The only times I know of that DRM has increased sales is if the software is used by businesses that can be sued if caught using unlicensed versions.

You can't increase sales by inconveniencing your customers.

It's not about increasing sales, DRM isn't a incentive to buy, it is for those that want to use it that did not pay for it or do not abide by the licensing agreement of the product. So it may not get people to buy it that would not buy it anyway, but it does attempt to protect more of the casual piracy that goes on and sends a message that this type of sharing isn't condoned where not protecting it in light of piracy sends a totally opposite message.

In the past, there was less of a need for certain things to be protected because of the ecosystem where sites, customers and the producer kept the whole thing honest or had a recourse to remove content that was illegal. If a file was illegally hosted, all the copyright user had to do was to make a request to take it down and the site abided by that, which in term kept the consumer ease of use high. However the system is broken to the point that the copyright holder has no choice but to add more protection to the product because the sites aren't honoring the take down notices, which then inconveniences the consumer.

This is the problem. People come to me and ask me to help them; they tell me what is happening and ask me to fix it. I start by asking questions. They tell me the problem, and in a round-about way so they don't feel insulted, I tell them what they are experiencing is a symptom; that symptom is causing them a problem - which is not the same thing. So Daz is trying to fix a symptom, not tackle the problem. Look at how to make sure take down notices are honoured.

Khory_D posted at 1:29AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237252

It has also been stated that content will continue to be available through account download and DIM.

Yes the only thing greater than contradictions have been the post removals.

Razor42 posted at 1:38AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237410

So, the "distribution of content would be a nighmare" lie, is just that, a lie, since a cloud-based application is all about not distributing either content or execution (and Razor42 is certainly well aware of this).

It's still content distribution whether it is installed on your hard drive or lives in a cloud somewhere for your use. And pointing out two apps that are of a totally different type is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. Daz Studio is not a 3d modelling app which can work cloud based much more easily, it's a content platform which is much harder to implement as cloud based successfully. Spotify is cloud based, It doesn't mean there is any advantage to Apple turning to a full cloud based solution for itunes. If Daz Connect did evolve as you speculate into a cloud base solution, I would unfortunately not be able to use the platform at that point, as I live in the country and for me to download 2-3 gigs for a scene would take somewhere between 3-4 hrs and consume a large chunk of my monthly data allowance. So Daz3D's grand plan is to make their program unusable for a good percentage of their customers and PA's. You really haven't thought this through have you?

You're implying that DAZ3D are willing to put piracy protection over user experience to the degree it would make the app unusable and there business vulnerable. That's just irrational nonsense. So any actual data to back your story up or we just need to rely on your gut instinct for this future of Overlord Daz who is going to spoil everybodies fun? No DRM is 100% ironclad, No company ever has expected there DRM to be 100% ironclad forever, Do companies use DRM still to protect their content. Yes!

Frankly, I find most of your last post to be full of rambling and disinformation and quite insulting really insinuating that I am dumb, naive and a Liar seems like you are just trying to fire me up. But honestly I have work to do today :) If you have anything more solid than your gut instinct or internal doom and gloom radar. Let me know.

Have a look here: Disinformation, ring any bells?

It is very easy to implement. Customers can use what products their subscription gives them access to. Those products can be placed in a scene, and when they have them arranged as they want - they hit render. Please authorise this payment to download the finished render to your computer... oh sorry, we forgot to mention that.

LPR001 posted at 1:41AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237415

@Writers_Block you will get no argument from me over the deletion of posts although I don't know what they contain if they are in breach of the Daz TOS then that is appropriate there are some posts on here that perhaps should have gone that way but I am giving some room to vent in a civil manner. If they are removing the posts because the questions are not to their liking then I would think that is not the best option and only serves to increase speculation.

It is possible that some have breached.

This is what I suggest might have been done if they genuinely had nothing to hide: "There have been some posts that have breached our TOS, however, in the interest of honesty and to calm the obvious fears of our customers, we have taken the unusual step of relaxing those terms in this thread only. We will still, however, consider each and every post which has breached tos carefully. Those that are removed from this thread, we will email you as usual, but we will enclose the text and point out the specifics we are objecting to, thus allowing you to amend it.

Thank you for your understanding."

I made a post, suggesting that the reason for the DRM was weak, and wondered if it was there as a smoke screen; it vanished, naturally. The thing is, leaving it there would have done more to negate my post than deleting it did. Of course, not many saw it, it was not up more than a couple of hours.

But, I've given up using words, I'm trying dollars now.

Worst case scenario is I have some cash to spend on something else.

Writers_Block posted at 1:35PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237421

Razor42 posted at 1:38AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237410

So, the "distribution of content would be a nighmare" lie, is just that, a lie, since a cloud-based application is all about not distributing either content or execution (and Razor42 is certainly well aware of this).

It's still content distribution whether it is installed on your hard drive or lives in a cloud somewhere for your use. And pointing out two apps that are of a totally different type is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. Daz Studio is not a 3d modelling app which can work cloud based much more easily, it's a content platform which is much harder to implement as cloud based successfully. Spotify is cloud based, It doesn't mean there is any advantage to Apple turning to a full cloud based solution for itunes. If Daz Connect did evolve as you speculate into a cloud base solution, I would unfortunately not be able to use the platform at that point, as I live in the country and for me to download 2-3 gigs for a scene would take somewhere between 3-4 hrs and consume a large chunk of my monthly data allowance. So Daz3D's grand plan is to make their program unusable for a good percentage of their customers and PA's. You really haven't thought this through have you?

You're implying that DAZ3D are willing to put piracy protection over user experience to the degree it would make the app unusable and there business vulnerable. That's just irrational nonsense. So any actual data to back your story up or we just need to rely on your gut instinct for this future of Overlord Daz who is going to spoil everybodies fun? No DRM is 100% ironclad, No company ever has expected there DRM to be 100% ironclad forever, Do companies use DRM still to protect their content. Yes!

Frankly, I find most of your last post to be full of rambling and disinformation and quite insulting really insinuating that I am dumb, naive and a Liar seems like you are just trying to fire me up. But honestly I have work to do today :) If you have anything more solid than your gut instinct or internal doom and gloom radar. Let me know.

Have a look here: Disinformation, ring any bells?

It is very easy to implement. Customers can use what products their subscription gives them access to. Those products can be placed in a scene, and when they have them arranged as they want - they hit render. Please authorise this payment to download the finished render to your computer... oh sorry, we forgot to mention that.

Can it be done, Sure. Though what would be the advantages to Daz3D in doing so over the current system. Do you think it would make more customers come on board or lose custom in the long term. You're basically saying that you need to download every product to a scene without actually purchasing it. Wouldn't that just add more risk? Technically you could download to a scene, isolate and pirate without even needing to purchase the product? How would that be more secure? Also adding more data overhead to every customer and Daz3D whether paying or not. The system being described would create extremely difficult scenarios for how a vendor driven marketplace intrinsically works. Explain to me how you would see vendor payments work under the described scenario. Please explain how this system would attract more vendors?

Could Microsoft send malicious malware to every PC that has windows, yes. The question is why would they? Unless they want to destroy their business. Try to focus on the why they would do this rather than just the "if they could". Those answers don't make much sense in context.

As far as post deletions, go check the link about disinformation I posted. Relaxing of TOS to allow posts that disseminate disinformation or maybe just misinformation would be counter intuitive to say the least to a businesses long term interests. No?

@Writers_Block Maybe they are trying to handle things the best way they can and they might not be used to quite a large onslaught. Are they given set things to say and nothing more that forces them into a corner with limited options. If you look at how I have handled this thread it could be said I could do with one of the Daz guys over here to help out for a while. But we are all adults and if it stays the course I have no reason to remove comments although some are little dodgy. Members appear to have sorted it. I have my own personal opinion as Johnny G that I put forward as a member free to be challenged by anybody who wishes to do so. If need be I will address an issue as moderator, the less I need to do this the better IMO, We are nearly out to chapter 10 of this sorry saga. Battered and bruised but at least everybody has had the opportunity to get it out their system, and that can only be a good thing..... It's better than bottling it up as they say. Have a great weekend

Now we are speculating about the speculation I think I am going to need a coffee for this.

LPR001 posted at 3:22PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237439

Now we are speculating about the speculation I think I am going to need a coffee for this.

That's the name of the game in this thread isn't it? I would guess that most people expressing strong opinions of DS 4.9 here, haven't actually downloaded DS 4.9.

It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

But as you pointed out vents are important too.