EldritchCellar posted at 6:16PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4236986

That's hilarious... The one and only Stonemason pops in and finds the sound of crickets. Lol. You guys must be unusually busy tonight to have missed that.

I have been running around for the last couple days looking for a damn WIFI spot. Otherwise I would have been here to see that post. I should have recognized the work, but I guess I have been distracted the last few days.

seachnasaigh posted at 6:19PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4236836

Rokket, It might take some experimentation (and multiple test renders), but I think we'll be able to get a flame effect that you'll be satisfied with. The aura wouldn't be much different from TinkerBell's pixie dust aura. Don't give up the ship!

Rob, have you tried using a clouds node for your atmosphere? It would give that patchy fog effect. P.S. @Rob: If you plan on getting a 3D computer, get a server/workstation motherboard with dual CPU sockets.

The aura kicked my butt the last time around. I guess I have to take my time and get it right. I think it would help if you showed me how you do it...

While an unseen IDL emitter can be geometrically crude/simple, an aura must be smooth and fairly high poly. So, the mesh is one condition which must be met. The other is the material setup.

I start with boxes for the torso, arms, legs. You'll be doing stills, so if you can't get a good rig (parts outside of doll's capsule zones, overlapping parts, etc) you can parent the boxes to the doll parts and pose the doll, then export the boxes as an OBJ. Cut and bridge to connect them, cut to allow more fitting, and fit the loops (with a big standoff distance). Then SubD, and maybe refine the fit. SubD again. I may use four levels of SubD in order to get the requisite smoothly rounded mesh.

Do you want to start with mesh, or do you already have a mesh and just need to get the material set up?

I am going to start with the mesh. I got the material setup from you before and it worked well. It was just that the mesh wasn't quite right. I will start a new one in a day or two. Once it's done, I will try it out and post the results. Today is the 6th here in Guam and won't be in port much longer. It may be around the 15th before I can post the results. I am on my ship's servers right now and they are pretty slow.

EldritchCellar posted at 11:54AM Fri, 06 November 2015 - #4236986

That's hilarious... The one and only Stonemason pops in and finds the sound of crickets. Lol. You guys must be unusually busy tonight to have missed that.

Well, this is a Poser forum.....

Don't get your meaning. Either you mean the Poser forum is deserted for various reasons, or you mean because Stonemason has decided to drop instant poser support for his sets and is concentrating on DS versions and therefore clannish neurosis in the Poser community dictates herd silence.

Anyway, nice of him to pop in and explain his method. What app does he use to create all those wonderful models? Max I think...

yep 3dmax,but buildings are simple,you could model it in anything..and I can understand some not too thrilled to see me here,..but 90 odd percent of my store is still Poser content

"yep 3dmax,but buildings are simple..."

Sci Fi Environment

That's only 85k polys... o o

well,I guess don't look at the whole,look at what makes up the whole..they're just cylinders and boxes,and any modeler can do that

Similarly, great paintings are just composed of droplets of paint. That's called Urban Future 2, isn't it? I made P9+ IDL emitters for that with automatically animated navigation beacon strobe lights (flash-flash-flash-pause...flash-flash-flash-pause...) and neon signage which slowly pulsed bright/dim. For Superfly, I'll be able to whip up a material set which do the animated lights and cast light without extra parts needed. That's what I did for the Arc, used for the Cortana renders. Mesh IDL emitter set for P9+ Firefly, and just modify the materials (no emitters needed) for Superfly.

stonemason posted at 10:13PM Fri, 06 November 2015 - #4237281

yep 3dmax,but buildings are simple,you could model it in anything..and I can understand some not too thrilled to see me here,..but 90 odd percent of my store is still Poser content

Yeah, but I am not interested in that 90% - like a lot of people, I already own all of that.

Hey, can I bum that 'Enchanted Forest' offaya? Strictly for educational purposes? :)

stonemason posted at 12:11AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237281

yep 3dmax,but buildings are simple,you could model it in anything..and I can understand some not too thrilled to see me here,..but 90 odd percent of my store is still Poser content

I am about to start modeling buildings to create the sets I need for my comic. Any tips you might have on creating them would be valuable. I don't follow the forum politics and could care less which software you make your models for. It's your knowledge and experience that makes me glad you are posting here.

I never dreamed when I started this thread that it would still be going 24 pages later. There is a lot of good information in here if anyone ever gets bored and reads the whole thing....

I guess all you can do is follow the tutorials,read the manuals and don't be afraid to push the buttons,it's really just learning the tools you have and then you can make anything.I did follow a lot of tuts on modeling for video games which made for some efficient modeling,but if your doing this just for your own comics,and not intending to redistribute your models then you do have the luxury of cutting corners,I really enjoy doing models for my own illustrations as you can get it done so much quicker and better if no one else will be using the model.when you start making content for sale then you need to start thinking about how the end user will be working with it.and the limitations of whatever program the end user will be working with,what kind camera angles they'll be using(they always seem to render from angles you don't expect them to be rendering from),also you want to consider how many extra figures /props etc they will be adding so keeping things efficient is important.

something I do say to people though is try not to look at what other modelers and content creators are doing,use real world buildings as your reference points instead..that way you wont be repeating the same mistakes other content creators have made.

EldritchCellar posted at 7:08PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237316

Hey, can I bum that 'Enchanted Forest' offaya? Strictly for educational purposes? :)

no..but your more than welcome to buy it..for educational purposes :P

Just what I need... more education related debt. Lol.

stonemason posted at 8:31PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237539

I guess all you can do is follow the tutorials,read the manuals and don't be afraid to push the buttons,it's really just learning the tools you have and then you can make anything.I did follow a lot of tuts on modeling for video games which made for some efficient modeling,but if your doing this just for your own comics,and not intending to redistribute your models then you do have the luxury of cutting corners,I really enjoy doing models for my own illustrations as you can get it done so much quicker and better if no one else will be using the model.when you start making content for sale then you need to start thinking about how the end user will be working with it.and the limitations of whatever program the end user will be working with,what kind camera angles they'll be using(they always seem to render from angles you don't expect them to be rendering from),also you want to consider how many extra figures /props etc they will be adding so keeping things efficient is important.

something I do say to people though is try not to look at what other modelers and content creators are doing,use real world buildings as your reference points instead..that way you wont be repeating the same mistakes other content creators have made.

That's pretty solid advice. I have only been modeling for a bit over 3 years, and I am pretty much all self taught. I still don't use about 40% of Wings' features. I have followed a few tutorials, but the availability of tut's for Wings is pretty lean. I have tried to follow tutorials meant for other software, but there are a bunch of features in other programs that Wings doesn't have, and I have to find a way to cheat it. It's made for a very interesting workflow on my part. I would never do a tutorial because my methods are pretty unorthodox, and since it works for me, I don't try to change it.

Really, I would only be looking for advice like: how you handle walls; make them individually or just model off a cube... things like that.

usually just a cube or even just an extruded edge,most of the building facades I do start from a photo of an actual facade,corrected/squared up as much as possible in Photoshop and then applied to a plane as texture,then just cut/slice and extrude to match whatever shapes are in the texture,and re-do the uv's as your modeling. and then if your doing commercially available content you'll have to make the walls separate so users can remove them for rendering

I was looking at some of your models earlier, some old freebies of yours... the floating eyebot and the mechanical tentacle. I was noticing that sometimes you use control edges and other times not for your hard edge modeling in poser (for the smoothing) and yet I wasn't detecting much in the way of smoothing problems. Didn't look like you were splitting vertices, were you setting smoothing groups in 3dmax or something? I've modeled some hard surface things using edge loop/control edge style bevels and the specularity on the corners and such is nice and without artifacts but it drives the poly count through the roof. For instance just looking at some of your modeled bolts and greebling I'm not seeing bevels or control loops but everything looks fine in Poser so I'm thinking smoothing groups?

Ok, that makes a lot of sense. Since I will be doing renders of a lot of inside buildings, I will have to model with lighting in mind. I am going to start on something later today and if I run into trouble, I'll be back in here with my puppy dog eyes begging for help...

EldritchCellar posted at 1:54AM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237591

I was looking at some of your models earlier, some old freebies of yours... the floating eyebot and the mechanical tentacle. I was noticing that sometimes you use control edges and other times not for your hard edge modeling in poser (for the smoothing) and yet I wasn't detecting much in the way of smoothing problems. Didn't look like you were splitting vertices, were you setting smoothing groups in 3dmax or something? I've modeled some hard surface things using edge loop/control edge style bevels and the specularity on the corners and such is nice and without artifacts but it drives the poly count through the roof. For instance just looking at some of your modeled bolts and greebling I'm not seeing bevels or control loops but everything looks fine in Poser so I'm thinking smoothing groups?

can't remember the tentacle,that's a very old model..probably a good example of what not to be looking at,with those first models I was just learning while making content so are filled with plenty of mistakes. the floaty bot thing is a good example of optimizing subdivided geometry. I had to sub-d it to get the curved surface,but then I went in and removed about half of what the sub-d had given,and then went and modeled some extra bits on top of that,as you say sub-d will add a heap of extra faces that you probably don't need.so it's best to remove them, for the hard surface stuff I use all of the above..used to be just splitting/breaking verts,but for the past 7 years or so I was using smooth groups in the obj(that's the one thing Poser had over DS that affected my workflow,the ability to read smooth groups), I rarely add control loops,and to that end subdividing one of my models in poser would just make it a mess. and I also used the smooth angle available in Poser and DS to keep faces hard. I do try to bevel as much as possible but that's just for aesthetic reasons, not to avoid artifacts.it's to get that nice edge highlighting. Keeping hard faces looking hard and without weird looking smoothing is something to really keep in mind when modeling for Poser,DS,Vue etc

for some cool looking hard surface modeling techniques https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEc6CYyzn1oVI4lrFrNC16g/videos

Thanks Stonemason, I'll check that out... have to admit I have difficulty avoiding poles and cutting and deleting edges to redirect edgeflow but I do alot of reading in various forums and articles on modeling. Not really interested in clothes or human modeling... finding my voice in this medium.

That's a great tip right there!

I never really considered deleting edge loops after subdivision. Now I have another tool in the box.

Thanks, stonemason!

Here's a little tip on doing that in wings Rokket, after you delete an edge loop you'll be left with a bunch of isolated vertices. Select menu/Select By/Isolated Vertices/Backspace. Or, Object Menu/Cleanup. Alot of times Clean Up will throw an error if there's too many verts, usually select by isolated I've found to be better for complex objects, and it might be necessary to delete not in one go but in a couple steps. Isolated verts will cause some serious headaches with subD and sculpting. I expect that my advice will be met with cold silence as usual, even if it is used. Lol.

EldritchCellar posted at 5:57PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237671

Here's a little tip on doing that in wings Rokket, after you delete an edge loop you'll be left with a bunch of isolated vertices. Select menu/Select By/Isolated Vertices/Backspace. Or, Object Menu/Cleanup. Alot of times Clean Up will throw an error if there's too many verts, usually select by isolated I've found to be better for complex objects, and it might be necessary to delete not in one go but in a couple steps. Isolated verts will cause some serious headaches with subD and sculpting. I expect that my advice will be met with cold silence as usual, even if it is used. Lol.

Cold silence from me???? I thought I was too talkative! I have used select by isolated vertices before. When I am making capes I tend to take out a bunch of useless edges and then delete the vertices after that. I just never thought of cleaning up a sud-d'd mesh that way...

Tedious, but a thoughtful way to lighten models.

I gave it a shot. Works fairly well, but I have to do it a bit more so that knowing which edges to take out becomes second nature. The first time I did it, I screwed it up.

Just take out loops, for blocks or cubes take out like every other 2 loops or so... try to keep the quads nice and square. If you've built with control loops subD will create extra unnecessary loops near each turning edge, delete those.

Note though, if you've beveled that produces a little tri things can get tricky.

About midway down the page I discuss smoothing and control loops, which in a roundabout way is relevant to SubD, beveling edges, and controlling edge hardness in Poser without splitting verts. In Poser, proximity of one loop to another controls the degree to which the involved polys will be smoothed. The closer loops are, less smoothing.

Control Loops

This was all modeled with control edges for hardness and bevels...

...

... theres a lot of of polys near the edges. The centers of the comprising planes are single large polys though, by deleting loops as Stonemason suggested. It's a common box /SubD modeling practice.

That's an old model, I only really do organic modeling anymore. Here's the kicker, my little greebled box shown above is near as high poly as Stonemason's incredibly detailed Sci Fi Environment. Lol. If I were to do it over again, I'd do it alot different. It was a really good learning experience. You know what I'm talking about Rokket... every project is a learning experience, or at least you hope it will be.

If you plan on building alot of architectural stuff you might want to take some time and assemble yourself a collection of pre UV'd planes and such. Just to cut down on labor. You can cut things up in wings and the UVs for the cuts will retain the mapping for that part.

Just pinging the thread for renewed awesomeness.

It appears someone was here when Stonemason dropped by again, hmm?

I'm surprised by how many Daz vendors/ artists have popped in here... JoeQuick (pretty sure that was this thread) and Stonemason. It's a pretty long thread, nowhere near as big as BB's VSS thread or the Antonia thread... remember too that for long stretches it's just you and Rokket talking.

Yeah, each time I model it's a learning curve. I used to have collection of greebles, but I lost those when the external HDD they were on decided to die on me. I can't even remember where I got them from. Most of the buildings I will be making will just be modern looking office buildings, so they should be fairly low poly. I will have to model in areas where I plan to destroy them, but I have a blender tut that shows how to do that.

And there are long stretches of just rob and I talking. And long stretches where I was posting one pic after another...

I think this thread is better than "have you rendered porn?" I think it's better than moaning about V4 or that genesis 3 doesn't work in Poser. The rokket has posted pix and so have I. I try not to post that because I don't wish to show off and this is about how to do stuff. From making Superman's to Saturn Girl's outfit to how make a lava body or aura's. rokket's comic is still in the planning stage, I'm sure he has the basic story down but it should be talked about between us to make some improvements if he wants it.

I'm still modeling a crate. In Hexagon.

Yet I'm also learning more about Poser than I dreamed! Each time rokket models, I fall behind the curve. Heck, everytime Eldritch forgets something about poser or modeling, it's more than I know. This isn't the longest thread but I think right now it's the best!

rokket, think you can model a Saturday night special? The old style. Not the sleek geometric pistol.

"I think this thread is better than "have you rendered porn?" I think it's better than moaning about V4 or that genesis 3 doesn't work in Poser."

Can't argue with that. Those threads give me an ulcer. Lol... most threads give me an ulcer.

I am a positive person. I almost have to be but I can gripe with the best of them. Let's see...

"Why are you still using V4?"

"Is it time to give up support for Poser Males?"

Really? Don't. Get. Me. Started. I will stay positive. I will!

You should see the figure I'm working on now... he he, weird as shit.

Weird as shit is a good thing. A good good thing. I collect monsters for instance. Not vampires, though. They are too glittery these days but a spider with a chipmunk's head? Oh yeah. I want that. Reveal when you are ready...

Nah, it's not a monster... well not really. Ok, maybe it is a monster sorta. It's a va va voom version of woody the old Poser Mannequin. Female. With a sexy mouth and tongue. And the naughty bits. Lol. It's coming out surprisingly good and fast, modeling and uv mapping just about done. The rigging will be a cinch on this one, not anywhere near as tedious as Cthog was. Working on an expansion for that one too. Anyway the weird Mannequin will be my next freebie I think... I'll probably just post some demo images of it in my gallery when it's near ready for upload. Gotta figure out a name for it. Was thinking maybe Mm Mm Mannequin. :D

There are a lot of versions of the Saturday night special. Everything from a snub nosed .32 to a .38 special. Post a pic of the one you want. I'll give it a go...

Weird as shit isn't a bad thing. It's a DIFFERENT thing. It's only weird to someone too shallow to understand the nature behind its creation. Or some other fancy gibberish that explains modern art....

Here are some photo's! @4236197

My office was dark. The light dimmed to way past low like the way I felt every day. My vision was still filled with smoke from turkish cigarettes, 85 cent cigars and my taste buds were dead from the sting of cheap whiskey for men like me that wanted to get drunk fast. Damn her. I could smell her. After this long I could still inhale the scent of honey, roses, strawberries and hot woman. I knew that scent and I knew that woman. The kind of woman that breaks your heart, empties your bank account and still leaves you smilin' six months later. But this was years later. My heart was still broke, my bank account was still empty and the smile was just a memory away. One more drink and I could forget her. Just for tonight, I could forget her. I could forget that scent.

First I heard the commotion in the outer office. That purely female voice that sang of sex and sorrow. Not my sorrow. Hers for ever dealing with scum like me. Then I heard the steady click of stiletto heels on my wooden floor. The sound of a trigger being cocked and my own gasp when my vision finally focused and she pulled the trigger.

I was blinded by the gun blast in the dark. But I wasn't crazy. I smelled her. I heard her and knew she had every right to kill me.

My ex-wife was back.

And I still loved her.

See why I need that gun?