"or just add a certain node set while leaving the current material as is. This gives you the option of adding "features" to any existing material..."

Wasn't aware of this. Very useful tidbit there, have to give it a spin.

EldritchCellar posted at 2:47PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247787

Crystal is right on that. You can apply .mc6 in the pose room.

They are right, yes. But unless I'm missing something, you can only do this if you first go into the Material Room and select the item you want to apply the .mc6 to.

QUOTE: "In the Main Window dropdown, choose your clothing figure......" For those using the hierarchy editor instead: Just select the figure/prop, apply mat, and you're done.

Peter, thank you for that explanation. I'm still not entirely convinced, but that helps me better understand the pros and cons of each format. Very helpful.

pikesPit posted at 2:55PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247792

QUOTE: "In the Main Window dropdown, choose your clothing figure......" For those using the hierarchy editor instead: Just select the figure/prop, apply mat, and you're done.

Tried this. It didn't work.

Nope. Just select target from main window dropdown or hierarchy. Oh, was aware of that .mt5 functionality PikesPit mentioned... damn, thought I learned something new. Crosspost.

gmm2 posted at 3:56PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247789

CrystalGames posted at 2:40PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247785

Then you are loading an MT5 file, not an MC6. Even an MT5 file can be loaded in the Pose room, you only have to select the material zone from the resultant popup to apply it.

In the Main Window dropdown, choose your clothing figure.......apply an MC6 by double clicking on it. You never need a trip to the Material Room to do so.

No, it wasn't an .mt5. It was an .mc6, I promise you.

What version of Poser are you using? I don't know what the "Main Window dropdown" is.

This has been true since I started using Poser with P7.

That's exactly how I've been selecting my figures and trying to load an .mc6. It will not work unless I go into the Material Room first and select a material on the figure.

pikesPit posted at 4:01PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247788

Hello

You know that you can apply .mt5 and .mc6 files without ever entering the material room?

Prerequisite is, of course, that you've selected the correct figure/prop to which it should be applied!

**One big difference is that **

• in case of an .mt5 file applied from the pose room, to any figure/prop, you'll be asked to which material zone of your currently selected figure/prop it shall be applied.
• in case of an .mc6 file applied to a non-matching figure/prop anytime, you'll be alerted that the material zones as contained in the file don't exist, and asked whether they should be created - which is a bad idea and should thus be answered by "NO".

Another big difference is flexibility: With .mt5 files, you can replace a material completely, or just add a certain node set while leaving the current material as is. This gives you the option of adding "features" to any existing material... Granted, you'll have to know your way in the Advanced Material Room to wire them up correctly, but I wouldn't want to miss this feature.

PLUS, as it has already been mentioned, an .mt5 file can be applied to any material zone, be it figure or prop. You can't ever do this with a .pz2 set because the material zone are "carved in stone"! (Also note the other limitation - a figure must always be present in the scene. A nuissance if you just want to try out materials on a prop...)

All that said, and to sum it up:

If I find a material (collection) in .pz2 format which is really good and worth keeping, I convert it to an .mt5 or .mc6 file when I install it, to benefit from the advantages described above.

If the material is bad (no matter what file format), I don't use it. I make a mark in my Little Red Book instead, to be cautious before buying more from this vendor...

... which brings us back to the "quality" issue as brought up by the OP.

**Let's keep this discussion going, because it's interesting. But please let's stay civil. ** Regards,

Peter

Thank you for this, Peter. I looked and couldn't find anything so well written. Of course, we should note that the 'adding "features" to any existing material' refers to Poser specific features of the material room.

gmm2 posted at 4:03PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247797

That's exactly how I've been selecting my figures and trying to load an .mc6. It will not work unless I go into the Material Room first and select a material on the figure.

Then something is wrong with your version of Poser or you've changed some setting somewhere. It has never required a trip to the material room for me, nor the others responding, evidently.

I've had to delete the preference files a few times due to various issues, so that's probably the cause. I don't really care to get it back because it's such a small deal.

In a roundabout way that ended up being helpful, so thank you, Crystal.

gmm2 posted at 4:43PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247802

I've had to delete the preference files a few times due to various issues, so that's probably the cause. I don't really care to get it back because it's such a small deal.

In a roundabout way that ended up being helpful, so thank you, Crystal.

Ahhh, I suspect it's the following setting:

In General Preferences>Library Tab>Double-Click Behavior>Add to Scene/Replace Existing

Mine is set to Add to Scene

And, you're welcome.

CrystalGames posted at 3:54PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247813

Ahhh, I suspect it's the following setting:

In General Preferences>Library Tab>Double-Click Behavior>Add to Scene/Replace Existing

Mine is set to Add to Scene

And, you're welcome.

Mine's set on Add to Scene, too. Still nothing.

You can also select the library's "load" behaviour manually by selecting a library item, and then either clicking (bottom left) the single checkmark (== replace) or the double checkmark (== add to) - no matter what your basic settings are.

-P-

**P.S.: **_(Just read your last reply) _

If it still doesn't work, then there's obviously something wrong with your Poser install.

Obviously indeed, because it works fine for all others here...

pikesPit posted at 4:15PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247817

You can also select the library's "load" behaviour manually by selecting a library item, and then either clicking (bottom left) the single checkmark (== replace) or the double checkmark (== add to) - no matter what your basic settings are.

-P-

**P.S.: **_(Just read your last reply) _

If it still doesn't work, then there's obviously something wrong with your Poser install.

Obviously indeed, because it works fine for all others here...

This method did work, thankfully. I do think something is actually messed up with my version, but as long as it's just this minor thing, whatever.

P.P.S.:

This forum software is a joke.

In my previous message, edited to add the postscriptum, I meant to set the P.S.:" in BOLD, and the addendum "(Just read your last reply)" in ITALICS.

Instead, it ended up like you can see...

"**P.S.: **_(Just read your last reply) _"

No text formatting...

:(

@ gmm2:

If it works for you this way, then it's fine - leave your Poser installation alone. Remember: If it works, don't change it!

It's just a minor nuisance, compared to a complete re-install and all the hassles that come with it.

Happy Posering!

Peter

Test Test Test Test Test

Edit: Formatting worked on my end. Kind of.

Edit 2: Peter, your problem was that you left a space before your second asterisk pair and your second underscore.

Thanks! Will try to remember these little pitfalls...

-P-

gmm2 posted at 6:09PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247723

ssgbryan posted at 11:39AM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247644

We still have to deal with material .pz2 files because too many vendors are too lazy to join us in the 21st century. (It also violates 'Rosity requirements to sell here - funny how they don't enforce that requirement to make materiel .mc6 files. After all, vendors have only had a decade to get with the program.)

As a vendor, this part stood out to me. Why are material .pz2s considered out-of-date? Why is the alternative better? I honestly don't know. The reason I make .pz2s for materials is so they'll be compatible in both DAZ and Poser (as much as possible, anyway), but if there's a better way I'm interested to hear it.

Material .pz2s were a hack for Poser 4. The issue for me is the pose folder becomes overloaded. That's why we have the Materials folder. Put materials in the materials folder & poses in the pose folder. Like the LAST 6 VERSIONS of Poser are set up.

Furthermore, DazStudio has been able to read material .mc6 files since the release of DS 4.5.

BTW, in Daz Studio, every single file type has been stuffed into the pose subfolder. Unscrewing the file structure in DS is why I can't take DS seriously.

ssgbryan posted at 8:04PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247859

Material .pz2s were a hack for Poser 4. The issue for me is the pose folder becomes overloaded. That's why we have the Materials folder. Put materials in the materials folder & poses in the pose folder. Like the LAST 6 VERSIONS of Poser are set up.

Furthermore, DazStudio has been able to read material .mc6 files since the release of DS 4.5.

BTW, in Daz Studio, every single file type has been stuffed into the pose subfolder. Unscrewing the file structure in DS is why I can't take DS seriously.

Thank you for the explanation. I'm not really convinced that any of those reasons are good enough to not use .pz2s, but I'll definitely consider making .mc6s for my future products if that's what customers prefer (and that seems to be the case).

Just as a little aside, all Poser files are essentially .pz2 (well except for .pz3 and .pmd) at their core. That's the basic file of Poser, everything else is just different stuff between the brackets after version #. As far as hacks go, from that perspective ERC, INJ, etc. are also Poser 4/5 hacks (which are now part of Poser's interface, way after the fact of course). I say these offensive outmoded hacks should be dumped forthwith, no more dependencies! No more shareable morphs (hence no more of those detestable "packs" that shoppers are in an uproar about!). It's high time Poser users do away with such outmoded practices! :) Hey, wasn't .mc6/.mt5 introduced Poser 6? Scoff! Dinosaur crap!

People seem to have completely skipped over these statements:

RPublishing posted at 5:06PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247573

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair... Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

This is something I've been trying to sort out for a while now, as to which figure platform I should focus on to make content for. I have half-finished content for several different figures - from genesis to gen4 to Paul and Pauline, but I don't know which I should focus on finishing at this point or if I'm even interested anymore. Turbosquid, Unity and Unreal are looking more and more appealing - much less work, much less drama and criticism, higher sales prices.

AmbientShade posted at 5:20AM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247877

People seem to have completely skipped over these statements:

RPublishing posted at 5:06PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247573

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair... Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

This is something I've been trying to sort out for a while now, as to which figure platform I should focus on to make content for. I have half-finished content for several different figures - from genesis to gen4 to Paul and Pauline, but I don't know which I should focus on finishing at this point or if I'm even interested anymore. Turbosquid, Unity and Unreal are looking more and more appealing - much less work, much less drama and criticism, higher sales prices.

After looking at your tumblr link, I think you should focus on finishing your original figures. That guy looks AMAZING! :D We have plenty of pretty girls already, we need more guys! And content for them, obviously..

That's Lucas, he's been in development for about 5 years I guess (sorry ambientshade, he has). I've always been puzzled why ambientshade (formerly ExistentialDisorder) hasn't hastened to finish the guy... there was quite an interest in the community when he was modeling the first version. There's a thread about him buried somewhere round here. Perhaps best he waited though, in light of the rigging advances that have come along since. I think that dress/outfit model is really nice and should also be a priority for target Poser/DS.

ssgbryan posted at 1:46AM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247859

BTW, in Daz Studio, every single file type has been stuffed into the pose subfolder. Unscrewing the file structure in DS is why I can't take DS seriously.

Incorrect. The poses folder is for poses and it's subfolders for figures content are separated by the figure. There is a materials folder for separate materials general characters materials under people (unless a vendor makes a characters then all of the content for that character goes together so you're not jumping tab to tab), and a shaders presets for shader materials. I'd be careful of ssybryans advice in Poser as well, as he will quickly lead a vendor astray. Take vendor advice ONLY from vendors, unless you like not making money. That's the first lesson of being a vendor.

I haven't been using Poser as long as most of you have, but I've been using it long enough to figure out that the more stuff there is for a figure, the more people will use that figure, and thus will continue to buy more stuff for them. The reason I keep buying stuff for M4 is because he's already my most versatile figure, and I'd rather have one figure I can do whatever I want with than several figures I can do a few things each with. I buy clothes for him because I have a lot of morphs and textures for him so there is a broader range of people he can be. I assume it's the same thing with the Genesis figures. My point in saying this is that the stuff for the lesser-used figures doesn't sell because there isn't enough stuff for them; that's why they're not used as much. The only way to solve the problem is for them to have more stuff, which would happen if everybody made some, instead of everybody deciding to not make it. It will start selling when a figure becomes supported enough to be really useful.

There is a modern street scene at Poserworld.

gmm2 posted at 9:11AM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247864

ssgbryan posted at 8:04PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247859

Material .pz2s were a hack for Poser 4. The issue for me is the pose folder becomes overloaded. That's why we have the Materials folder. Put materials in the materials folder & poses in the pose folder. Like the LAST 6 VERSIONS of Poser are set up.

Furthermore, DazStudio has been able to read material .mc6 files since the release of DS 4.5.

BTW, in Daz Studio, every single file type has been stuffed into the pose subfolder. Unscrewing the file structure in DS is why I can't take DS seriously.

Thank you for the explanation. I'm not really convinced that any of those reasons are good enough to not use .pz2s, but I'll definitely consider making .mc6s for my future products if that's what customers prefer (and that seems to be the case).

I don't like materials in the pose folder but it really is not an issue as once a month I just run a script from Netherworks that moves and converts the materials in the pose folder to the materials folder. Takes a minute or so as it is on a runtime basis and as I usually only buy for a couple of my runtimes each month, rather than the full forty odd, it is a minor inconvenience, much less in fact than the annoyance of looking for a material in a bloated pose folder.

My bigger concern when I do buy is the quality of the materials in the first place and whether the product was made for the later versions of Poser. For instance I would not buy a character these days if there was no Sub Surface Scattering texture even though I could use Ezyskin to create one.

DreaminGirl posted at 5:01AM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247884

AmbientShade posted at 5:20AM Fri, 08 January 2016 - #4247877

People seem to have completely skipped over these statements:

RPublishing posted at 5:06PM Thu, 07 January 2016 - #4247573

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair... Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

This is something I've been trying to sort out for a while now, as to which figure platform I should focus on to make content for. I have half-finished content for several different figures - from genesis to gen4 to Paul and Pauline, but I don't know which I should focus on finishing at this point or if I'm even interested anymore. Turbosquid, Unity and Unreal are looking more and more appealing - much less work, much less drama and criticism, higher sales prices.

After looking at your tumblr link, I think you should focus on finishing your original figures. That guy looks AMAZING! :D We have plenty of pretty girls already, we need more guys! And content for them, obviously..

That's Lucas, he's been in development for about 5 years I guess (sorry ambientshade, he has). I've always been puzzled why ambientshade (formerly ExistentialDisorder) hasn't hastened to finish the guy... there was quite an interest in the community when he was modeling the first version. There's a thread about him buried somewhere round here. Perhaps best he waited though, in light of the rigging advances that have come along since. I think that dress/outfit model is really nice and should also be a priority for target Poser/DS.

Yes indeed, I've been hoping ambientshade would release his male figure for such a long time. The figure looks 100 times more accurate and aesthetically pleasing than any of the Poser males that have been released previously. I've tried most of male figures and I'm sorry but they just aren't that great. Poser needs quality figures and ambientshades male certainly looks like it could fill the void in Poser

Sorry to continue the off-topic sub-thread but since we're talking about applying materials while in the pose room, nobody mentioned ...

Drag and drop. Regardless of what is selected as current figure or actor, you can drag an mt5 or mc6 onto any figure or prop visually and it will apply to what was under the cursor when you dropped. (It will give feedback as you do this) When dropping an MT5 (individual material) it will apply to the polygon you dropped on (and thereby the material associated with that polygon).

Might I suggest we start a new thread on the matterial settings so more folks can join in? Anyone up for that?

Im a buyer and have previously been a big spender here, but I have to agree now when I look most of the new items are aimed at either V7,G3 and less and less vendors releasing quality stuff for V4. Im only interested in using Poser, Ive tried Daz and cant get the same quality renders and im not going to pay out hundreds of dollars on a third party render engine when for me its just a Hobby, so ill stay with Poser and buy mostly for V4, wherever I can get it.

I prefer working with V4, ive had to work more with G2 via DSON but its not as nice setting up a render with G2 in Poser and the end results of a better image are rarely worth the time and extra pain in struggling with G2 over V4, I only use G2 when I want to use an outfit I cant get on V4.

When I used to come on , I used to see so many things that I wanted that I had to use the wishlist as I was always going way over my monthly spending cap, now i`m lucky if I see enough to take me to even a 10th of that.

What do I want to see from vendors, I want quality creative new skins for V4, (theres a few vendors still doing these but less and less), I also want scenes, not just in fantasy settings but real world and sci-fi too. And I want clothing for V4, give me those things in quality and i`ll happily spend money on them.

I used to spend so much here, slowly things changed and as a user who sticks with the SM figures there was less and less that I could buy here. I've cut my spending at the marketplace by 97% and if I'm really on a buying spree I'll find something to get here every few months.

There's still a few things here to have my interest that make me click the rendo bookmark in FF but as with posting on these forums, it's become something I do on a monthly basis instead of a daily basis.

Venders has always followed the latest DAZ Character. That just explains it all.

RorrKonn posted at 6:06AM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248055

Venders has always followed the latest DAZ Character. That just explains it all.

Right, and DAZ has set out not only to fracture the DAZ/Poser community, it is now in the process of fracturing their own community with Genesis2/Genesis3.

So, they continue to cut the pie smaller and smaller and smaller while these very same vendors wonder what the hell is happening.

That's what happens when one follows a company whose goal is to take a bigger slice of everything in the market. Eventually, they start slicing YOU up too.

I buy stuff for the SM figures and for V4. I don't like the idea to use a figure which can only be used with an plugin, so I don't have much stuff for Genesis 1 or 2 and I'm not really interested in it.

What I would like to buy are characters who look real, even for V4. but more for Roxie, M4, Rex, Pauline, Allyson2, Miki 4. The point is "looking real". I would love to have real bump maps, working specular maps and textures without burned-in shadows or included highlights. Have a look here to see what this stuff could look like.

I do buy interesting enviroments, if they would come with working SuperFly shaders, it would be a great bonus for me.

Clothes, this one is difficult. I would not mind getting more stuff there, but I have loads of stuff for V4 and converting this for other figures isn't that difficult any more. I would rather buy clothes for the SM figures than for V4 to skip that conversion process, but then it would have to be something what I don't have yet. A big plus, again, would be clothes with reasonable shaders, both for Firefly and Superfly, where rubber, metal, denim and silk do not use the same shader.

Since I do most things with SuperFly now, I am very likely to buy dynamic hair. Very, very likely. It looks better, and renders faster.

But I would really, really like more stuff for the SM figures.

I am very happy with renders I can produce using Dawn SE so I have yet to upgrade to Poser 11 as I am in no hurry at the moment to use Pauline or Paul. I am interested in Superfly but I would like the option of producing renders without me having to spend time learning Superfly before I can. I am happy to learn but over a period of time while seeing what Superfly can do. I am more likely to spend money here on scenes that have materials for Superfly or on materials themselves to allow me use features of Poser 11 from the day I upgrade. Now that we have Superfly it will be interesting to see how many vendors actually cater for the new features of Poser 11 rather than just supporting Poser 6.

I already have a vast selection of clothes for V4, which can be converted for Dawn, and some good dynamic outfits produced for Dawn. The lack vendor support for Poser and Dawn, along with other issues, have stopped me spending here entirely and until I see products that support Poser, and hopefully the latest versions, that is unlikely to change.

CrystalGames posted at 9:12AM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248069

RorrKonn posted at 6:06AM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248055

Venders has always followed the latest DAZ Character. That just explains it all.

Right, and DAZ has set out not only to fracture the DAZ/Poser community, it is now in the process of fracturing their own community with Genesis2/Genesis3.

So, they continue to cut the pie smaller and smaller and smaller while these very same vendors wonder what the hell is happening.

That's what happens when one follows a company whose goal is to take a bigger slice of everything in the market. Eventually, they start slicing YOU up too.

my philosophy is I am not dependent on any one certain app but I do try to keep up with the latest CGI tech and I can make my own characters. so no one can slice or dice me. they can war till the end of time but I won't let there war effect me.

"We still have to deal with material .pz2 files because too many vendors are too lazy to join us in the 21st century. (It also violates 'Rosity requirements to sell here - funny how they don't enforce that requirement to make materiel .mc6 files. After all, vendors have only had a decade to get with the program.)"

While I agree with this oft repeated complaint I feel compelled to interject that this "legacy software conundrum" is an unavoidable result of SM's business model of selling new versions of the same software every few years that do not offer enough incentives (feature& native figure wise) , to encourage people to $$buy$$ the upgrade.

The result is that new releases of poser have to not only compete with a FREE application like DS but also with every older version of poser dating back to poser 6. why should vendor completely adandon older versions of poser when end users have been given little incentive to do so.??

"Turbosquid, Unity and Unreal are looking more and more appealing - much less work, much less drama and criticism, higher sales prices."

It seem an obvious choice to me, as you would only have to develop for the the recent builds of unity& unreal,secure in the knowledge that your target market will likely not be running a version from seven years ago as these are FREE applications.

bantha posted at 1:35PM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248071

What I would like to buy are characters who look real, even for V4. but more for Roxie, M4, Rex, Pauline, Allyson2, Miki 4. The point is "looking real". I would love to have real bump maps, working specular maps and textures without burned-in shadows or included highlights. Have a look here to see what this stuff could look like.

Wow - I didn't know about this before today. This is killer - SM should have used a head like this for Pauline.

Skin shader is simple color map, bump map (from the link), scatter node, and Blinn node (in other words a FireFly shader) but rendered in SuperFly.

Those textures from the link still have burnt in specular. As far as "real" bump maps... what exactly would that be if not a desaturated, tweaked and level adjusted version of the diffuse texture. I like procedural bump myself but that doesn't account for high frequency detail in the color map. A combination of baked out procedural overlayed with gross high frequency detail displacements (moles, large pores, etc) would probably be the best "real bump" solution. Specular is difficult to eliminate in photo derived bump.

The Emily bump map is recorded from the actress' actual face pores and wrinkles, using math and thousands of photos. That's a real bump map.

The diffuse texture was derived from photos in which they used polarizers to separate the diffuse reflection from the specular reflection. Where do you see burnt in specular?

I turned off my Blinn node, removed the bump, and used only a uniform gray dome for lighting. This is basically just the flat diffuse reflection.

I see specular shine on the forehead of the color map image in the link. Prior to any adjustments via material settings. My comment was "Those textures from the link still have burnt in specular". An observation about the map itself.

But, I defer to anything you have to say on that BB, obviously. :) lol.

Also, that shadow on the jaw line has to hurt. I'm just not seeing how this map is an optimal map, regardless. Unless it's just intended for a showcase render from a static camera/lighting arrangement?

No BB, an absolute VETO. Choose : in R, G or B.

Not on mondays, not on thuesdays or saturdays.

SM should have used a texture set like this for Pauline.

A mesh, any mesh, is just a coathanger to hang a texture on. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a coathanger.

It is texture you see => it is texture and math room setup you render. => And you know it.

LMAF and we all know how often Poser does what it alt to ;)

Wicked render bagginsbill

What is it that Poser alt to do that you're having trouble with RorrKonn?

EldritchCellar posted at 8:26PM Sat, 09 January 2016 - #4248178

What is it that Poser alt to do that you're having trouble with RorrKonn?

I need a Poser Queen ;)