I gots mine, n she's all mine. Imagination, I say, imagination son.

Missus

About the still remaining specularity: link to the description of the project.

They are not Rendo-based know-it-alls, they are academic researchers.

I saw that Emily video a while back. Really cool stuff. Totally beyond. As far as renderosity know it alls... I'll take your word for that chaecuna, I'm just some hobbyist schmuck that drinks too much coffee and likes Poser. He he.

RPublishing posted at 10:56AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4247573

I actually appreciate hearing from buyers what they would like to see in the Marketplace. And, I hope we can all have a civil conversation about this. It's important to me as a vendor to know what buyers want, and I'm not offended by it, even if some might think it seems like flame baiting. It seems that it's an important issue for buyers, too. So, I'd love all the feedback you will give me (even if it is sent via SiteMail). 'Poser products' is a little bit vague can you be more specific of what products you would like to see for Poser? What figures do you use? Are you wanting props, scenes, clothing, hair, shoes?

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair. So, we have a few G3 items, but have tried to stick more to the Gen2 figures so that even Poser users can use them with the DSON poser compatible files (that we've been providing). Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

Try to get this back on track.

Interesting to hear your input. I'll throw in my $.02, I'm just a hobbyist but I've spent a lot over here at Renderosity.

The Ever looming DAZ-Poser split seems to likely be the biggest factor, IMHO. Genesis 2 has finally been out for a few years now with a lot more products available for it, and seems to be picking up momentum with the free DAZ Studio and the fact that there isn't native support in Poser. Now with Genesis 3 and Iray they are picking up even more momentum.

Clothes fitting is always an issue in Poser and I feel like I'm not alone here. The morph brush is good, but not perfect as it mashes the geometry of the clothing. DAZ lacks the morphing brush, but from what I've gleaned from other artists & hobbyists the fitting is much better out of the gate. IMHO, clothing vendors for V4 would go a long ways toward including Perfect V4.2 into clothing, if possible or two versions. Who is still rendering V4 any more without that or similar mesh fixes?

I feel like I'm at a fork in the road. I like Poser, but Victoria 7 is very appealing. Unfortunately I'm pretty well vested in Poser owning Pro 2014 and the Octane plugin, not to mention a ton of V4 & Poser content. I actually downloaded Studio 4.8 yesterday, and about to pick up V7. I'm wondering if I try switching to Iray, or get the Octane plugin for DAZ. So really two forks for me, go to DAZ? If so, I'm sure I'll keep Poser & Octane for V4 renders. Going with DAZ, go with Octane or Iray? Iray won't be free either with all the shaders to buy.

Lastly, not to make this sound personal, but I feel really burned by the Prime change. So much, in fact I don't think I've purchased a single thing at Renderosity since the change. It made me realize just how much I already have in my library anyways that I haven't gotten around to. I've bought some things over at the other places, and will probably pick up that other premium membership too.

Gator762 posted at 11:11AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249279

RPublishing posted at 10:56AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4247573

I actually appreciate hearing from buyers what they would like to see in the Marketplace. And, I hope we can all have a civil conversation about this. It's important to me as a vendor to know what buyers want, and I'm not offended by it, even if some might think it seems like flame baiting. It seems that it's an important issue for buyers, too. So, I'd love all the feedback you will give me (even if it is sent via SiteMail). 'Poser products' is a little bit vague can you be more specific of what products you would like to see for Poser? What figures do you use? Are you wanting props, scenes, clothing, hair, shoes?

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair. So, we have a few G3 items, but have tried to stick more to the Gen2 figures so that even Poser users can use them with the DSON poser compatible files (that we've been providing). Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

Try to get this back on track.

Interesting to hear your input. I'll throw in my $.02, I'm just a hobbyist but I've spent a lot over here at Renderosity.

The Ever looming DAZ-Poser split seems to likely be the biggest factor, IMHO. Genesis 2 has finally been out for a few years now with a lot more products available for it, and seems to be picking up momentum with the free DAZ Studio and the fact that there isn't native support in Poser. Now with Genesis 3 and Iray they are picking up even more momentum.

Clothes fitting is always an issue in Poser and I feel like I'm not alone here. The morph brush is good, but not perfect as it mashes the geometry of the clothing. DAZ lacks the morphing brush, but from what I've gleaned from other artists & hobbyists the fitting is much better out of the gate. IMHO, clothing vendors for V4 would go a long ways toward including Perfect V4.2 into clothing, if possible or two versions. Who is still rendering V4 any more without that or similar mesh fixes?

I feel like I'm at a fork in the road. I like Poser, but Victoria 7 is very appealing. Unfortunately I'm pretty well vested in Poser owning Pro 2014 and the Octane plugin, not to mention a ton of V4 & Poser content. I actually downloaded Studio 4.8 yesterday, and about to pick up V7. I'm wondering if I try switching to Iray, or get the Octane plugin for DAZ. So really two forks for me, go to DAZ? If so, I'm sure I'll keep Poser & Octane for V4 renders. Going with DAZ, go with Octane or Iray? Iray won't be free either with all the shaders to buy.

Lastly, not to make this sound personal, but I feel really burned by the Prime change. So much, in fact I don't think I've purchased a single thing at Renderosity since the change. It made me realize just how much I already have in my library anyways that I haven't gotten around to. I've bought some things over at the other places, and will probably pick up that other premium membership too.

It's not personal, it's bad business on their part - I noticed the only post made in over a week in the Prime forum was someone asking how to cancel their membership. Prime as we knew it is dead. I suspect that it will go away by next July, because there aren't going to be much in the way of renewals.

In Poser, we do have other figures to choose from than just V4. I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a fat chick myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety (or volume). It's still the same generic early 20's Northern Caucasians. A fair bit of the clothing is just recycled V4 (or earlier, in the case of shoes) content.

Good luck with DS - do understand the hidden costs (the cost of the clones isn't cheap & all of the other products you will probably need to get the most out of DS isn't cheap either). What is your plan vis-a-vis the upcoming DS encryption of content?

Personally, I couldn't go back to a Poser 4 workflow myself. Later versions of Poser have allowed me to decouple clothing from figures, which really ups the value of my content.

AFA clothing - the fitting room is like everything else, you do need to use with it to become proficient (And I would highly, highly recommend Lyrra's Fit room magnets for Dawn & Pauline - makes clothing conversion a 30 second process). DS isn't much better with autofit from what I have seen (although I will admit I haven't spent the time to become proficient with it - If DAZ doesn't want to document it, I don't feel a need to spend time figuring out the program - I don't grok the interface.)

I disagree with adding Perfect V4 morphs to clothing, that is what the Copy Morphs From command is for. You are proposing to make the clothing heavier, memory wise. It is more efficient to chuck all of those figure morphs from the clothing and use Copy Morphs From command, along with the Dials to Single Morph command to shrink the memory size of a figure even more.

A lot of us that still use V4 use the WM version, which pretty much eliminates the need for all of those fix products (unless you are doing renders of yoga poses).

To return back on topic.

I would applaud more quality content for Pauline, Dawn, Anastacia,..... and also for G3F.

Indeed there is a lot offered for G3F if you only want strapped bikinis, leather underwear, textures for the same items, ridiculous oversexed poses. I used to spend a lot of money buying content but these days, no. Why would i? Very rarely something worthwhile is offered.

Same thing at DAZ variations on the same characters variations of skimpy clothing, ok there are exceptions as there are on renderosity.

Ah i started using daz studio because of the G3 models, please do not start a debate over poser vs daz, please........! I am still a poser user also and looking forward to the erogenesis character.

There are talented vendors:

blackhearted awsome content, would like to see a blackhearted Pauline version.

stonemason working for daz but great artist

erogenesis

hivewire have you seen the horse character?

powerage

hongyu

outoftouch ok very skimpy stuff but quality

bluetreestudio

greenpots

xameva these days over @ renderotica

there are lot's more

I really have nothing against skimpy clothing or poses, i just would like to have some other content to.

Ok as a content maker you have to make a profit so there is a lot more work on making a model like the "London" scene by stonemason offered @ daz the price is high (but it sells) as a consumer i am willing to pay this premium price. I am willing to pay more for stuff made by powerage because it is clearly so much more complex then the other stuff on offer.

Or is there really no demand for these kind of items in that case the problem is caused by us (in general) the end users. Has there been a shift in users demand?

On the bright side i am spending a lot less now.

Michel

@ssgbryan

**I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a fat chick myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety (or volume). It's still the same generic early 20's Northern Caucasians. A fair bit of the clothing is just recycled V4 (or earlier, in the case of shoes) content. **

I would suggest that you try G3F (it is free) before you state this. It is obvious that you have not done this.

I have yet to see a figure at this price point that offers such control, quality bending and morphing.

Michel

michelvanspeybroeck posted at 2:40PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249338

@ssgbryan

**I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a fat chick myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety (or volume). It's still the same generic early 20's Northern Caucasians. A fair bit of the clothing is just recycled V4 (or earlier, in the case of shoes) content. **

I would suggest that you try G3F (it is free) before you state this. It is obvious that you have not done this.

I have yet to see a figure at this price point that offers such control, quality bending and morphing.

Michel

I have g3f (and the g1 & g2 series of figures, along with about 70% of the characters released for them) along with DS 4.8 (Not going to encrypted content with DS 4.9) - I am not impressed. I haven't seen any advancement in the figures that would justify spending money on them. I have also done a TCO analysis for each of the genesis series. They aren't good values for the money, unless you buy at 70% off.

The other problem is that I would have to use Daz Studio - the feature set is much too limited for what I do.

EldritchCellar posted at 5:06PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4247902

That's Lucas, he's been in development for about 5 years I guess (sorry ambientshade, he has). I've always been puzzled why ambientshade (formerly ExistentialDisorder) hasn't hastened to finish the guy... there was quite an interest in the community when he was modeling the first version. There's a thread about him buried somewhere round here. Perhaps best he waited though, in light of the rigging advances that have come along since. I think that dress/outfit model is really nice and should also be a priority for target Poser/DS.

Just under 4 years, actually. And most of that time has been spent working on other paying projects that didn't allow me to focus on him. It's not easy building a human figure from scratch especially when you also have to figure out the intricacies of the software that are not documented anywhere and scour websites and forums looking for the answers to specific questions on how to work around various obscure bugs and oddities (the user manual for poser is very rudimentary and barely touches on any of its rigging features at any length. At best its an overview). Plus I didn't want to rush it and wind up putting yet another substandard figure out there that no one would use as that's just a waste of time and energy, especially considering how little attention non-daz figures get from the community no matter how good they are, so I've gone back and forth a lot trying to sort out whether I even wanted to finish them. But that's also why I started posting progress shots on tumblr to see if it gained any traction. I've also been working on his female counterpart along the way, and both of them have been through a number of resculpts, re-rigs, etc, so they aren't even really the same figure as before. I figured it's best to finish the female first, since they always get the most attention.

I thought they were both really good. You should finish them when you have the time. :)

Laurie

Thanks Laurie. I've actually been working full time on them for the last few weeks. At this point it's become a personal challenge whether they gain any significant interest or not at least they'll be done.

AmbientShade posted at 5:47PM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249392

Thanks Laurie. I've actually been working full time on them for the last few weeks. At this point it's become a personal challenge whether they gain any significant interest or not at least they'll be done.

I love what I've seen during the progress of your figures. Poser desperately needs high quality figure and your sculpting alone stands out from other figures. so I'm definitely interested in the male

I'm interested in the male as well. I'm about sick of females now ;). Just personal opinion tho. LOL

Laurie

AmbientShade posted at 7:55AM Sat, 16 January 2016 - #4249392

Thanks Laurie. I've actually been working full time on them for the last few weeks. At this point it's become a personal challenge whether they gain any significant interest or not at least they'll be done.

If you put up a crowdfunding thingy I'll definitely throw some money at you :D

Just browing past and adding my interest for the male. We have tons of weight-mapped females by now. I, for one, really wish for a weight-mapped equivalent of Apollo Maximus as far as versatility goes. (Tyler is awesome, but he always looks like Tyler. Same thing for Dusk.)

Thanks Elena_c, DreaminGirl, adzan. It's good to know there's at least some interest in them still.

AmbientShade : Are you no longer a Forum Moderator ?

Yeah RorrKonn, no more deleted images. Notice that? Lol.

"But back on topic" (Said in pompous forum goer voice)... Oh yeah, something about zombies in shopping malls right? ;)

But smart alec-ing aside... and continuing the OT trend (I guess?)

AmbientShade, if these figures you're developing are in active progress I'd seriously consider the male figure as the Flag Ship. As has been said, the female market is full I think. There's obviously more interest from forum people (for whatever that's worth in the real perspective of things) over the male. To top that off you have Erogenesis' PE looming on the horizon. So, with Dawn, V4, Genesis?, and PE to contend with it sounds like really choppy waters. IMVHO.

Still Unbroken

ssgbryan posted at 7:51AM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249310

Gator762 posted at 11:11AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4249279

RPublishing posted at 10:56AM Fri, 15 January 2016 - #4247573

I actually appreciate hearing from buyers what they would like to see in the Marketplace. And, I hope we can all have a civil conversation about this. It's important to me as a vendor to know what buyers want, and I'm not offended by it, even if some might think it seems like flame baiting. It seems that it's an important issue for buyers, too. So, I'd love all the feedback you will give me (even if it is sent via SiteMail). 'Poser products' is a little bit vague can you be more specific of what products you would like to see for Poser? What figures do you use? Are you wanting props, scenes, clothing, hair, shoes?

From a vendor perspective, I can say that many of our last V4 clothing items didn't sell very well, and we have many of our regular, loyal buyers asking for G2 & G3 clothing and hair. So, we have a few G3 items, but have tried to stick more to the Gen2 figures so that even Poser users can use them with the DSON poser compatible files (that we've been providing). Personally, I'd love to develop more just Poser products. It's faster and easier for us, but it feels too much like wasting our time because they don't sell.

Try to get this back on track.

Interesting to hear your input. I'll throw in my $.02, I'm just a hobbyist but I've spent a lot over here at Renderosity.

The Ever looming DAZ-Poser split seems to likely be the biggest factor, IMHO. Genesis 2 has finally been out for a few years now with a lot more products available for it, and seems to be picking up momentum with the free DAZ Studio and the fact that there isn't native support in Poser. Now with Genesis 3 and Iray they are picking up even more momentum.

Clothes fitting is always an issue in Poser and I feel like I'm not alone here. The morph brush is good, but not perfect as it mashes the geometry of the clothing. DAZ lacks the morphing brush, but from what I've gleaned from other artists & hobbyists the fitting is much better out of the gate. IMHO, clothing vendors for V4 would go a long ways toward including Perfect V4.2 into clothing, if possible or two versions. Who is still rendering V4 any more without that or similar mesh fixes?

I feel like I'm at a fork in the road. I like Poser, but Victoria 7 is very appealing. Unfortunately I'm pretty well vested in Poser owning Pro 2014 and the Octane plugin, not to mention a ton of V4 & Poser content. I actually downloaded Studio 4.8 yesterday, and about to pick up V7. I'm wondering if I try switching to Iray, or get the Octane plugin for DAZ. So really two forks for me, go to DAZ? If so, I'm sure I'll keep Poser & Octane for V4 renders. Going with DAZ, go with Octane or Iray? Iray won't be free either with all the shaders to buy.

Lastly, not to make this sound personal, but I feel really burned by the Prime change. So much, in fact I don't think I've purchased a single thing at Renderosity since the change. It made me realize just how much I already have in my library anyways that I haven't gotten around to. I've bought some things over at the other places, and will probably pick up that other premium membership too.

It's not personal, it's bad business on their part - I noticed the only post made in over a week in the Prime forum was someone asking how to cancel their membership. Prime as we knew it is dead. I suspect that it will go away by next July, because there aren't going to be much in the way of renewals.

In Poser, we do have other figures to choose from than just V4. I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a fat chick myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety (or volume). It's still the same generic early 20's Northern Caucasians. A fair bit of the clothing is just recycled V4 (or earlier, in the case of shoes) content.

Good luck with DS - do understand the hidden costs (the cost of the clones isn't cheap & all of the other products you will probably need to get the most out of DS isn't cheap either). What is your plan vis-a-vis the upcoming DS encryption of content?

Personally, I couldn't go back to a Poser 4 workflow myself. Later versions of Poser have allowed me to decouple clothing from figures, which really ups the value of my content.

AFA clothing - the fitting room is like everything else, you do need to use with it to become proficient (And I would highly, highly recommend Lyrra's Fit room magnets for Dawn & Pauline - makes clothing conversion a 30 second process). DS isn't much better with autofit from what I have seen (although I will admit I haven't spent the time to become proficient with it - If DAZ doesn't want to document it, I don't feel a need to spend time figuring out the program - I don't grok the interface.)

I disagree with adding Perfect V4 morphs to clothing, that is what the Copy Morphs From command is for. You are proposing to make the clothing heavier, memory wise. It is more efficient to chuck all of those figure morphs from the clothing and use Copy Morphs From command, along with the Dials to Single Morph command to shrink the memory size of a figure even more.

A lot of us that still use V4 use the WM version, which pretty much eliminates the need for all of those fix products (unless you are doing renders of yoga poses).

Hidden costs? Well I have just started playing with DS 4.8, I haven't tallied up the costs yet. So far, it seems fairly substantial for V7, G3 base is included, but then need V7, then morphs, facial morphs, V7 HD (personally). Then there is the cost of Iray vs Octane... Still not an easy decision, as Octane will run me about $160 for the plugin, Iray I'll probably buy some shaders. I'm familiar with Octane, and with what I'm seen provides a bit better results. But as my use with Poser means I'm re-doing textures for everything. If products come with good Iray out of the box that's less time spent. Not familiar with DS, so I don't know what other hidden costs there are.

I don't know about the DRM, I just started considering DS. It's not too much of a worry, as I buy everything of course. I do wonder about content from other sites like here and RDNA and how the DRM will effect it, and especially purchased content I customize myself - will DRM mess that up?

According to michelvanspeybroeck, a lot of V4 content can be converted. Which would be nice, I have a pretty big closet full of V4 content. A thread I started

Perhaps I have to go back to the fitting room and Copy Morphs From command? I've only tried them a few times, and I thought the results sucked. In the fitting room, the meshes would get butchered. I've found better results using adjustment morphs built into the clothes to get as close as I can, then the morph brush for the rest. The amount of time could vary there. I'm not sure I know about the correct procedure for copy morphs from command, it's been a while since I've tried it. Fitting clothes has been an annoyance I have often skipped them, heck I usually want the NSFW version anyways.

Kazam561 posted at 12:18AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4247765

What must Renderosity do if it wishes to survive? Currently it's becoming a Genesis figure store. Realize this... Daz's current G3/V7 purposely has no intended support for Smith Micro's Poser. So let's follow their train of thought. Daz wishes to own the market. Not just on software but eventually figures (at this price range). Daz has changed supporting a competitor's software and thus sacrificed a large consumer spending group in plan of a long term goal. How does this affect Renderosity who sells G2/G3/V7 items? If the Daz's plan comes to fruition and Smith Micro decides to fold up or go a completely different route then Daz will have the market for these type of figures. So let's take the point home. How does Daz own the market place? They change their EULA. A EULA which will make it impossible to sell any support for Daz figures at any non-Daz store. Daz wouldn't change a EULA to spite others would it? Nooooooo.... That's never been done before in business. Wake up Renderosity. You can't afford to play follow the leader when their plan is to starve you out of business.

You, as a company must incentivize. You must use your current strength with your current vendors. Yes you take a small hit, but you need to invest in a future. Either make better deals with vendors to get them to provide more varied content or start folding up your shop now. Why should I buy an outfit here for a G3/V7 figure from a vendor who's got a shop at Daz with an equivalent outfit for 50% to 75% off? Right now, even though I'm not a D/S user, Daz's Platinum Club has better deals than Prime.

Ask customers what they want. Run polls asking about outfits, and props. Have vendors work with customers to custom make items. Yes it's a lot of work, but it will revitalize the market place.

And to vendors, this ship is leaving too. Sure raise prices while you can.... if you can stand losing business. Both sides of the shop need to be flexible if they want to survive. Less stores, and less programs mean a worse time for vendors too.

If they make a EULA .That you can only sell DAZ content at DAZ.com . That would burn stores.

If they make a EULA .That you can only give away DAZ content at DAZ.com . That would burn stores.

If they make a EULA .That you can not make DAZ characters. That would burn DAZ Dawn & anyone else planning to make DAZ characters.

From a Business point of view it sounds like DAZ would have total control. Isn't that what business War for ?

From a Vendors point of view DAZ could set the prices. Like TurboSquid does.

From a Humans point of view DAZ might come off a bit as of a Tyrant.

A EULA like that would be a gamble for DAZ.

So they would half to change the EULA little buy little by little.

So it won't be a explosion in your face more like a faint whisper.

Judas Priest - Tyrant

You're missing one main point. It wouldn't actually be in Daz 3D's best interest to do any of those things.

If they make a EULA .That you can only sell DAZ content at DAZ.com . That would burn stores. If they make a EULA .That you can only give away DAZ content at DAZ.com . That would burn stores. If they make a EULA .That you can not make DAZ characters. That would burn DAZ Dawn & anyone else planning to make DAZ characters.

So when someone goes to another store for a Daz Studio product or sharecg and downloads a freebie. What do they need? Well Daz Studio Obviously. Where do they get Daz Studio? Daz3D.com right. Any idea what a fortune 500 company would spend to drive foot traffic to their websites and stores? Why would Daz3D cut off the hand that feeds? The gain they would make would be much less than what they would lose.

From a Business point of view it sounds like DAZ would have total control. Isn't that what business War for ?

Again at a base level this may seem right, but in reality it's much more complex. Competition drives innovation, increases market size and has a whole host of positive impacts on a market as a whole. It's not always in a company's best interest to destroy all competition mercilessly.

Most of this idea is based on speculative reasoning. It's about the same as me stating "I have heard SM have decided that they are going to target more uptown markets on their next version and plan to quadruple the price and drop the standard version, having only a pro version at $2500!!!" Feel free to quote me out of context and make sure to include the additional exclamation points too.

Could they? Sure. WIll they? Not likely. Is there any evidence to support either theory other than "the sky is falling" type of thinking? None that I can see.

It's basically saying that Daz 3D's plan will be to destroy their entire business model and make changes that when looked at rationally could only adversely affect their business. So they can all kick back and laugh evilly as the industry collapses... sounds like nonsense to me.

"In Poser, we do have other figures to choose from than just V4. I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a FAT CHICK myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety"

I try not to address people directly but this juvenile term "Fat chick" that you are using to try to discredit Daz is getting beyond My ability to ignore.

Here is a simple click& load screen cap of the genesi 3 Female with no morphs applied I gather from your oft repeated remark that you are a typical North America white male who thinks that any female whos back side does not look like a poorly feed 11 year old boy qualifies as "Fat"

It is due to congnitavely dissonent Standards Like yours that mental disorders Like Anorexia are Rampant in your American society.

wolf359 posted at 10:27AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250127

"In Poser, we do have other figures to choose from than just V4. I have yet to see what g3f adds to the table other than a FAT CHICK myself. There certainly isn't much in the way of character variety"

---

I try not to address people directly but this juvenile term "Fat chick" that you are using to try to discredit Daz is getting beyond My ability to ignore.

Here is a simple click& load screen cap of the genesi 3 Female with no morphs applied I gather from your oft repeated remark that you are a typical North America white male who thinks that any female whos back side does not look like a poorly feed 11 year old boy qualifies as "Fat"

It is due to congnitavely dissonent Standards Like yours that mental disorders Like Anorexia are Rampant in your American society.

Wolf, I frequently disagree with your posts, but.... man, I love this one.

ssgbryan, I frequently agree with your posts, but enough with the "fat chick" stuff. I doubt that most of us has any idea what you're talking about anyway. The Genesis 3 female base? That would be ridiculous, as Wolf points out above. Bethany 7? Sure, she's no stick insect, but still well below the average size for all but far east Asian females. If that equals "fat" in your estimation, you may want a bit of a perspective adjustment. I realize that most CGI users are young and male, but the range of male desire is wide enough to encompass a lot more than skeletal to seriously underfed. And you, yourself, keep telling us how much you value diversity in figures. Well, apparently you're not the only one, only some of us also value diversity in, ya know, body type as well.

And finally, not everyone is interested in rendering their sexual fantasy or the prevailing Western ideal of it. Some might even want to render people who look kinda like they do. I doubt the Poser/Daz community is made up of gaunt runway models and chemically enhanced professional athletes, so....

Edit: Also, using a physical attribute as a pejorative is just plain bad manners. I learned that in Kindergarten.

Razor42 : Probably best I'm a CGI Artist and not a business consultant. I'd be you annihilate the competition ,That's how you win games. ;)

wolf359 posted at 2:15PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250127

I try not to address people directly but this juvenile term "Fat chick" that you are using to try to discredit Daz is getting beyond My ability to ignore.

Here is a simple click& load screen cap of the genesi 3 Female with no morphs applied I gather from your oft repeated remark that you are a typical North America white male who thinks that any female whos back side does not look like a poorly feed 11 year old boy qualifies as "Fat"

It is due to congnitavely dissonent Standards Like yours that mental disorders Like Anorexia are Rampant in your American society.

We North America White Males do not judge females compared to poorly feed 11 year old boys. Females are judged compared to are Movie Starlets. We do not have any poorly feed children.

Anorexia does not run Rampant in American society ,not even for are Asian females

moriador posted at 2:31PM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4250174

Wolf, I frequently disagree with your posts, but.... man, I love this one.

ssgbryan, I frequently agree with your posts, but enough with the "fat chick" stuff. I doubt that most of us has any idea what you're talking about anyway. The Genesis 3 female base? That would be ridiculous, as Wolf points out above. Bethany 7? Sure, she's no stick insect, but still well below the average size for all but far east Asian females. If that equals "fat" in your estimation, you may want a bit of a perspective adjustment. I realize that most CGI users are young and male, but the range of male desire is wide enough to encompass a lot more than skeletal to seriously underfed. And you, yourself, keep telling us how much you value diversity in figures. Well, apparently you're not the only one, only some of us also value diversity in, ya know, body type as well.

And finally, not everyone is interested in rendering their sexual fantasy or the prevailing Western ideal of it. Some might even want to render people who look kinda like they do. I doubt the Poser/Daz community is made up of gaunt runway models and chemically enhanced professional athletes, so....

Edit: Also, using a physical attribute as a pejorative is just plain bad manners. I learned that in Kindergarten.

but using pejorative against a country is good manners ? ;)

I gotta agree with Wolf and Moriador here, enough with the 'fat chick'. Personally I have no interest in G3, and I find V7 to be downright ugly, but Bethany, her I LIKE!

Besides, in many parts of the US, she would be considered quite slim indeed..

True, enough of that "Fat Chick" already.

Congratulations, not one of you got my point - let me break it down some more:

Arabella 7: Height: 5'8.5" (173.9 cm) Bust Circumference: 31.1" (78.9 cm) Waist Circumference: 22.1" (56.1 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 34.6" (87.8 cm)

Bethany 7 Height: 5' 8" (174.2 cm) Bust Circumference: 40.0" (101.3 cm) Waist Circumference: 31.3" (79.5 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 42.8" (108.7 cm)

Eva 7: Height: 5' 11" (181.1 cm) Bust Circumference: 35.3" (89.7 cm) Waist Circumference: 24.5" (62.2 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 36.5" (92.7 cm)

Gia 7 Height: 5'11" (179.3 cm) Bust Circumference: 37" (94.3 cm) Waist Circumference: 26" (66.5 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 37" (93.8 cm)

Josie 7: Height: 5' 4.7" (164.3 cm) Bust Circumference: 30.2" (76.7 cm) Waist Circumference: 21.8" (55.4 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 31.1" (79.0 cm)

Karen 7: Height: 5' 11" (179.6 cm) Bust Circumference: 36.0" (91.44 cm) Waist Circumference: 26.0" (66.2 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 37.6" (95.5 cm)

Olympia 7 Height: 5'9.3" (176.11 cm) Bust Circumference: 37.5" (95.25 cm) Waist Circumference: 27.3" (69.31 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 39.9" (101.53 cm)

Victoria 7: Height: 5' 10" (179.3 cm) Bust Circumference: 35.9" (91.2 cm) Waist Circumference: 23.9" (60.7 cm) Low Hip Circumference: 37.0" (93.9 cm)

Bethany 7 is nothing more than V7 with a voluptuous morph built in. All of the sculpts are just minor variations of the base figure Now let's generate the TCO cost for the product. I'll use V4 as a baseline.

V4 TCO Costs: Base Mesh ($29.99) Morphs ++ ($29.99) Total Cost - ($59.98) Now you have access to literally thousands of characters.

Fast forward to genesis 3 (I'll use Bethany 7): G3F base mesh (Free) Head & Body morphs ($39.99) Bethany 7 ($44.95) Bethany 7 HD Morphs ($39.99) Total Cost: ($183.94) Congratulations, as a minimum, you spent an extra $44.95 to use literally 4 characters - Camille, Ginger, Barbarian & Succubus, and Sophia (at $17.20 average cost apiece) This breaks out to $28.44 per character - with another $10 each if you want to throw in the HD morphs. $28 to $38 per character, not mesh, but character. Now compare this to any other current figure. Getting value for the dollar?

You can do this for EVERY SINGLE FIGURE. As an exercise for anyone reading - now run this with the male figures - here is a hint: there are less than 60 male characters made during the life-cycle for the entire genesis 2 male and all of the sculpts. Poser's G2 male line of Simon, James, Koji & Kelvin had more characters made for them - and they were widely mocked for having "no content" during their life-cycle.

And one more thing...... Can ANYONE demonstrate the alleged "better bending" that genesis 3 brings to the table? I would like to see is 1 fully clothed genesis 2 figure and 1 genesis 3 figure in the same pose that can show HOW g3 is better than g2.

If you want a anatomically correct character it's a $120.00+

Well, if the figure wears clothing, bending doesn't matter that much. But let's be honest, judging by what content sells the most, the vast majority of Poser/DS users use the figures for porn, in which case the bending DOES matter :P

Please note: this lock is because there is too much back and forth negative feedback on both programs. This thread is no longer constructive (if it ever was).