RHaseltine: thanks! I had to think about it for a while but I seem to "get" it now.

Black__Days posted at 12:05PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4237769

Razor42 posted at 9:08PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237743

I am not speaking strictly about content development pace, per se, but more generational iteration and base/main character proliferation. I simply feel it's too fast. That's a personal opinion, and I completely understand why people might disagree. I have felt this way since M2/V2 were replaced by M3/V3/David/Stephanie/Freak.... Features we once took for granted (like facial expressions!) are now monetized, and what once would have been a character morph and texture set is now instead a new $30 base character.

Characters like Gianni 6 and Olympia 6 being their own base, with their own UVs, instead of just some new expansion for M/V6 are a prime example... Potential customers for Gianni 6 would only be a subset of people that already owned Michael 6, instead of everyone with Genesis 2 Male installed maybe buying him.

I just miss the days when you bought a figure, and that figure was a whole product, complete with body morphs to change body type, facial morphs to emote or make elf ears, fangs, etc. Now all of that is $10-$20 each. I would like to see a middle ground, where DAZ can make plenty of money and users can get more out of the content they buy.

Very well said. The increased cost of picking up each-and-every little morph and expression pack is why I have not upgraded to the G3 figures. I'm still using G1 & G2 almost exclusively, with frequent use of M4 thrown in the mix. I even dusted off V3 the other day because she has a certain "statuesque" look that I find hard to duplicate in the newer figures.

At the rate things are going, I won't invest heavily in any G3 content until version 4 comes out and all the old stuff finally goes on sale.

Well, all I can say is I didn't say either of those things so something is going wrong in your quotation mmitchel_houston.

Here is the quote #4237743 that you have referenced.

Razor42 posted at 10:37AM Tue, 19 January 2016 - #4237743

Black__Days posted at 10:57AM Tue, 10 November 2015 - #4237740

So, what I want to know is if 4.9 is also going to coincide with Michael 7 / Genesis 3 Male. If so, that leaves me looking very uneasily toward DAZ Studio 5 and the probable introduction of Genesis 4 in a year at most.

That's my biggest issue with DAZ, to be honest. I don't mind the DAZ Connect move, and the DIM didn't really bother me either. What bothers me is the pace of the content treadmill. It seem that it's been getting steadily faster, with periods between generations of figures shortening. Maybe I'll just bow out of the whole thing, play with the toys I have, and maybe jump back on the treadmill with generation 8.

I tend to find this one is also a bit of a misnomer. Sure the pace of content development seems to be increasing, but that would just offer more content choice wouldn't it. I still use Genesis and Genesis 2 quite a bit and I hear some also like V4 for some reason. Just because newer products arrive doesn't make the old ones redundant or in any way less useful. I know when I buy a computer, that pretty much before I power it on there will likely be a newer faster system available for the same price I paid. But I don't buy a computer to be the fastest forever, I purchase it to do a job and as long as the system can do that job for me for a number of years, I'm happy with it. I have no issue that newer faster models are arriving, in fact I just find it somewhat exciting that when I do choose to upgrade that the development has kept pushing the edge and I'm going to have a new faster and more powerful beast to put to work. A few of the software packs I use are also back a few versions from the latest too.

IMO What would be even scarier is to be stuck with the same level of tech or figure base for over ten years, while seeing very little advancement in the tech, wait a sec when was V4 made... ;)

Has anyone figured out how to uninstall from within the new interface. The Video Tutorial says it covers installing and uninstaller but after watching it twice I'm sure it only covers installing.

@greybro What is it your trying to do?

Delete broken content

You can uninstall through DIM for Daz3D content. If its other third party content you would need to manually remove associated files.

The thing is, I deleted the whole runtime for all of it, but it still shows up broken thumbnails in 4.9 DS

Okay I'm going to need to make a few assumptions :)

I will assume you are talking about thumbs in the Smart Content Pane? If this is the case what's happening is the product is gone but your database still believes it to be there just missing.

You can remove the orphan references by going to the Smart Content window and using the dropdown at the top of the tab select Content DB Maintenance Then you want to tick Remove Orphan File References then apply.

If you want to start from Scratch you can use Reset Database but this is literally a clean reset. So don't do this if there is anything you do want to retain in your CMS database.

One of my gripes is the way DAZ scatters their content all over the place. Some stuff is in folders named after the Published Artist. Some stuff is not. I don't want to search for my stuff. DIM or DAZ Connect is no good to me until DAZ organizes their content.

Tony_Stark posted at 1:34PM Mon, 25 January 2016 - #4251049

One of my gripes is the way DAZ scatters their content all over the place. Some stuff is in folders named after the Published Artist. Some stuff is not. I don't want to search for my stuff. DIM or DAZ Connect is no good to me until DAZ organizes their content.

Really what you're pointing out are vanity folders which is an issue that goes beyond Daz to almost any content provider from any store even freebies. Daz Connect is aimed at relieving the database management aspects of DS mainly in New Users who don't really want to spend time pulling apart zip files and storing them under a personal database management plan. Daz Connect doesnt store Daz 3D product files how you are showing.

Tony_Stark posted at 10:07PM Sun, 24 January 2016 - #4251049

One of my gripes is the way DAZ scatters their content all over the place. Some stuff is in folders named after the Published Artist. Some stuff is not. I don't want to search for my stuff. DIM or DAZ Connect is no good to me until DAZ organizes their content.

That is the standard organization. Actually if you look at there's two different types of data being shown in the image you'll notice the .duf files in the root character directory is the character presets to load the character as a shortcut into the scene. Then the folder below that are the PAs folder for each character they create so you add options to that character. So PA character presets as well as the DAZ originals such as Victoria (or in the image's case Belle 6) would be available there. So the data isn't really all over the place, you disagree with the way it's organized. In 4.9 instead of moving those files, I believe you create your new folder and click the figure in smart content and drag it to the folder and it will create a link and you can move that.

OMG, you are wrong. There are no shortcuts to the characters found within the "Vanity" folders. The Vanity folders are just another needless distraction. I don't see a need for a database. Just label the folders correctly.

Tony_Stark posted at 9:29AM Mon, 25 January 2016 - #4251135

OMG, you are wrong. There are no shortcuts to the characters found within the "Vanity" folders. The Vanity folders are just another needless distraction. I don't see a need for a database. Just label the folders correctly.

You didn't read my post correctly. The .duf files are the character presets which load the character without drilling down and is used in smart content. For each product there has to be at least one character preset. The folders with PA names aren't vanity folders, the folders are there, organized by PA, since PAs may make multiple characters. More customers recognize characters by the PA that made it rather than the name of the character itself. That's how QA wants it set up, if you want to change it in 4.9 you'll have to drag the icon from smart content into a folder you made and it will create a link that you can then organize. Like I said, just because you disagree with it does not make it wrong.

You say you don't see a need for a database?

Definition of a database is: A database is a collection of information that is organized so that it can easily be accessed, managed, and updated.

Sounds exactly like what you're asking for? Consistent organisation of file structure. Unfortunately just saying "Just label the folders correctly." has never been a good way of achieving what you're asking for. Under the current setup it's been proved practically impossible to bring all content creators inline to a consistent folder naming convention across all stores and content. And not just in DS content.

.... ZOMG

Here's a simple example of one of the issues, I have made an eye material that works on both Genesis 3 Male and Female. Lets call it sweet shine eye material. Where is the correct place to put the folder for the eye material preset? It's just a single mat preset in a folder called Sweet Eye Shine.

Wow. I read the first two pages, skipped to and read the eleventh page. I see some current issues. DATABASE; by definition we all use databases in many forms every time we use our electronic devices. The OS's create and use databases completely transparent to us. We/I use the Poser Runtime file architecture, which is of course, a form of database. One Runtime or dozens, no matter, Databases. Posers are a bit more rigidly structured and adhered to than DS's. Though DS and Carrara have been able to work with the Poser Runtime for many years, they have more complex databasing systems that Poser will never see at all. DS 4.9: no matter what great new features, improvements and fixes are introduced in this new version, it will remain UNINSTALLED on my system. It will not be used as right after all the file downloading finished and I got them all stored and ready for burning to disk, I noted in some of the forum threads at DAZ (who deleted several of my posts concerning the new issues) that 4.9 is really the vehicle to introduce both "Gun And Bullet"; ergo DRM via enforced internal use only encrypted content.
The ONLY thing DAZ needs to do at this point to absolutely lock this system into place is simply deny access to normal unencrypted zip files through the Product Library. Clearly MANY people have been in the know about this for the last two years at least. A number of DAZ "inside" people jumped ship, a good sized handful even started their own company.
About that Gun And Bullet thing. I have been a happy, paying and honest user at DAZ alone for almost a dozen years. I am no thief, nor a liar. And in dealing with "business" as an employee in several sectors of economy, I have learned that WHEN a business creates a "Gun And Bullet" situation, said business has shot that bullet 100% of the time. This is not a disgruntled paying user talking. This is an experienced troubleshooter. The first axiom to work by is "KNOW THE PROCESS". Well, that process is abhorrently simple, easy to dismantle and examine. DAZ WILL FORCE USE OF ENCRYPTED CONTENT. It doesn't matter that I alone paid their asking price for thousands of items, accepted happily free items and discounts of all sizes, and paid full price for some stuff too. It doesn't matter that thousands of other people have done the same or bought even more than I have. Many have bought more than I have! And we are ALL SEEN AS THIEVES! This is true because we are treated as a thief.
I am not going to argue ANY of this with the "PA's", the "Vendors" the content creators and sellers. YOU people are the ones who have created the US and THEM scenario, granted it was egged along for YEARS by a few individuals. Well, YOU and US exists. Not any good for anyone actually. "YOU" created a sort of mini egalitarian society within OUR (YOU and US equals OUR, yes dammit it really does!) OUR community. I accepted long ago that OUR community covers more than the half dozen 3D sites I use, and also includes several dozen web based forums. I have watched for a dozen years, and I learned 25 years ago there is and never will be ANYTHING PRIVATE in the online world. Security is an illusion. Honesty is not. Truth is not. Thieves are also a truth. I do MY part in this. I pay, I use according to honest rules, I do not engage in any form of casual piracy.
So I am hurrying up and trying to get ALL my DAZ content backed up with their zip files. In this process I found there were some items I never even downloaded. Argh! I can hope but do not expect DAZ to hold off locking out non-encrypted users for long. That is the gun and bullet and DAZ Sales Managers finger is very itchy on that trigger. We all THINK we know what is gonna happen. Nobody will until it actually does. We will see, soon enough.

The overwhelming majority of my content is NOT located within "Vanity" folders or folders using the Published Artist's names. I really wonder if you people look at your content before you post replies?!

If I buy an outfit for Michael 7, I want the outfit to be installed in a folder with the name of the outfit I bought. I don't need the outfit put into a category. I don't want DAZ Studio to tell me what type of outfit it is, or which pieces can be mixed or matched.

I get what you're saying. For example, in the smart content tab, not all of my animals are in the "animals" category, a lot of them are in the "Figures" category. And the "scenes" category only contains a couple of the many "scenes" I have, etc. I really do think they should add a way to reassign content to whichever category you think they should be in.

Tony_Stark posted at 11:02PM Mon, 25 January 2016 - #4251196

The overwhelming majority of my content is NOT located within "Vanity" folders or folders using the Published Artist's names. I really wonder if you people look at your content before you post replies?!

If I buy an outfit for Michael 7, I want the outfit to be installed in a folder with the name of the outfit I bought. I don't need the outfit put into a category. I don't want DAZ Studio to tell me what type of outfit it is, or which pieces can be mixed or matched.

You can always create your own categories in meta data or drag a link from smart content to organize. But DAZ figures have the folders set up as I mentioned. Considering I have a store full of content set up like that and the time I didn't, it failed QA and got kicked back to me, this is how it's going to be set up. Once again, just because you don't agree with the setup doesn't make it wrong. You have to use an alternate method of organizing as the base files won't be available for moving.

McGrandpa posted at 8:59PM Mon, 25 January 2016 - #4251195

**> DS 4.9: no matter what great new features, improvements and fixes are introduced in this new version, it will remain UNINSTALLED on my system. It will not be used as right after all the file downloading finished and I got them all stored and ready for burning to disk, I noted in some of the forum threads at DAZ (who deleted several of my posts concerning the new issues) that 4.9 is really the vehicle to introduce both "Gun And Bullet"; ergo DRM via enforced internal use only encrypted content.

The ONLY thing DAZ needs to do at this point to absolutely lock this system into place is simply deny access to normal unencrypted zip files through the Product Library. **

I liked and whole heartedly agree with your whole post Mr. McG. I had a post removed because I explained to someone the slow herding into a walled garden you'll get stuck in with their "encryption" they like to call it. In a post many pages before DAZ_Rawb said it wasn't DRM. This is why it was removed via an email to me. " A post you made to "No encrypted for me." has been removed for making accusations and speculation presented as fact". I won't spend another penny there and I spend a lot of pennies for enjoyment with my 3D hobby.

will2power posted at 1:16PM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4242073

I'm not afraid of anything. I look at the situation and I evaluate the impact on me and what I'm doing and I make a decision based on what I observe. I did the same thing when I switched from Poser to DAZ studio. I went through two or three versions with Poser and when I saw that they had no interest in addressing things that were important to me and what I wanted to do, I went back and tried DAZ Studio again. I do not rely on brand loyalty. I'm a one person shop and I have to do everything myself so to me, the content was king. Now the writing on the wall says that DAZ is going that same route --they roll out Genesis 3 without any Path to Carrara, nor any anouncement Carrara support is coming. We've been asking for particles and dynamics for years now, and they have ignored it in every iteration, while trying to tout DAZ as being animation friendly. Their sales practices have even become suspicious --to that I point out the release of Nineve 6 and Ysabeau 6 right before releasing Genesis 3 and Victoria 7 --with no advance warning. Particularly, I note that they broke the backwards compatibility to ensure that users could not use old textures nor easily convert them so as to force users to purchase new texture sets. They could have sat down with the Genesis 2 mesh and applied the new bone system, allowing users to continue using their old content but they made the conscious choice to break continuity.

All this time, they've ignored developing their own documentation, while dedicating themselves to Morph3d without addressing concerns and making improvements that would benefit their core user base. Because they're going after the semi-professional and indie market, they're ignoring the hobbyists like we're lepers. This is just the final nail in the coffin, and it's sad because I really do like their models. While none of these things individually would cause me to seek other sources, taken together it's a sign that I should move on and look for something more versatile and more responsive.

I bought Iclone 6 pro as soon as I found out that they had added dynamic cloth, speed trees, perception neuron mocap and Indigo Render. I tested it and what they're doing addresses 90 percent of the things that I've been after. If they ever decide to update the native render to like a licensed version of Unreal Engine--there's no way I'd ever go back to DAZ studio for anything because they're giving me the tools to animate-which is what I do as my hobby. The only thing that DAZ has going for it is Iray Render. But now that I'm a Beta Tester for Maya Iray --I'll pay for it when it comes out in full version which means there's absolutely nothing to keep me working in DAZ studio.

DRM isn't the only reason, it's just the last in a string of reasons why I'm moving away from working in DAZ studio.

Recommend you redact your ORDER NUMBER from that image and repost!

EricVM posted at 10:59AM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251241

McGrandpa posted at 8:59PM Mon, 25 January 2016 - #4251195

I liked and whole heartedly agree with your whole post Mr. McG. I had a post removed because I explained to someone the slow herding into a walled garden you'll get stuck in with their "encryption" they like to call it. In a post many pages before DAZ_Rawb said it wasn't DRM. This is why it was removed via an email to me. " A post you made to "No encrypted for me." has been removed for making accusations and speculation presented as fact". I won't spend another penny there and I spend a lot of pennies for enjoyment with my 3D hobby.

They are removing so many posts on that encryption thread that if you keep refreshing pages you get vertigo .

All discussions are useless; now that DAZ burned bridges the only constructive occupation is to find (and share with other users) alternative worflows/tools/content to DAZ.

Well I hate to see you go Chae, but I guess if you're not going to be using Daz Studio anymore I guess that means you wouldn't be dropping into the Daz Studio forums much either.

Wait a minute didn't you stop using DS months ago?

dreamcutter posted at 4:58AM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251242

Recommend you redact your ORDER NUMBER from that image and repost!

Not to worry, dreamcutter. If you want to see the price on the NVidia Website, you have to add the item to your cart. The order number in that picture isn't valid. It was just an example to show the cost of Iray.

EricVM posted at 6:48AM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251241

McGrandpa posted at 8:59PM Mon, 25 January 2016 - #4251195

**> DS 4.9: no matter what great new features, improvements and fixes are introduced in this new version, it will remain UNINSTALLED on my system. It will not be used as right after all the file downloading finished and I got them all stored and ready for burning to disk, I noted in some of the forum threads at DAZ (who deleted several of my posts concerning the new issues) that 4.9 is really the vehicle to introduce both "Gun And Bullet"; ergo DRM via enforced internal use only encrypted content.

The ONLY thing DAZ needs to do at this point to absolutely lock this system into place is simply deny access to normal unencrypted zip files through the Product Library. **

I liked and whole heartedly agree with your whole post Mr. McG. I had a post removed because I explained to someone the slow herding into a walled garden you'll get stuck in with their "encryption" they like to call it. In a post many pages before DAZ_Rawb said it wasn't DRM. This is why it was removed via an email to me. " A post you made to "No encrypted for me." has been removed for making accusations and speculation presented as fact". I won't spend another penny there and I spend a lot of pennies for enjoyment with my 3D hobby.

The thing about this walled garden being ridiculously incorrect (and thus your wild speculation deleted) is that DAZ is in the business of selling content, but they don't make their own; they get it from vendors submitting content to them and bringing more content developers into making content. Also their content gets more support from people at different stores making items for their base content and people supporting it with freebies. So if people can't even save content or get content into DS because it's a "walled garden", please explain how do you expect them to sell brokered content or even submit it for review? Again, they don't make content, they sell it. A walled garden can't happen if they want people to continue to make content for DS. That flawed logic is why those speculations were probably deleted, because they simply make no sense. Never mind that it doesn't even cover those that make freebies and/or their own content and don't want to sell at all. This argument conveniently omits how that comes into play. The encryption comes from the standpoint of DAZ wanted to protect the assets they sell, not locking everything down so they can't even get someone to submit it to them.

Think your thoughts all the way through before you post them.

Male_M3dia posted at 11:13PM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251270

EricVM posted at 6:48AM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251241 ...

" A post you made to "No encrypted for me." has been removed for making accusations and speculation presented as fact". I won't spend another penny there and I spend a lot of pennies for enjoyment with my 3D hobby.

The thing about this walled garden being ridiculously incorrect (and thus your wild speculation deleted) is that DAZ is in the business of selling content, but they don't make their own; they get it from vendors submitting content to them and bringing more content developers into making content. Also their content gets more support from people at different stores making items for their base content and people supporting it with freebies. So if people can't even save content or get content into DS because it's a "walled garden", please explain how do you expect them to sell brokered content or even submit it for review? Again, they don't make content, they sell it. A walled garden can't happen if they want people to continue to make content for DS. That flawed logic is why those speculations were probably deleted, because they simply make no sense. Never mind that it doesn't even cover those that make freebies and/or their own content and don't want to sell at all. This argument conveniently omits how that comes into play. The encryption comes from the standpoint of DAZ wanted to protect the assets they sell, not locking everything down so they can't even get someone to submit it to them.

Think your thoughts all the way through before you post them.

I read it as the reverse - content exclusive to DS. Perhaps he meant walled garden because of content created by DS and sold at DAZ3D might become encrypted to only work on DS and not other pipeline apps. That significantly reduces the value of the content.

I tend to agree with Dreamcutter and EricVM. This move makes it harder to work in other applications under the auspices of saying they're providing you with enhanced features. That's a first step. Then the next step is limiting the number of computers you can use your own content on. Then they make it so your old content won't work in DAZ Studio and voila! you're in that walled garden and you're wondering how you got there. They never do big changes like that in one shot --most of the time they make one change here and there hoping that you won't notice what's happening. I'm not purchasing any Encrypted content, and I'm actually to the point where I have a few more purchases of older content I like before saying goodbye to the DAZ marketplace. I love the figures, but I don't care for being restricted either by content or platform. The moment they do away with manual downloads or DIM, will be the moment I stop shopping at DAZ completely.

dreamcutter posted at 11:17AM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251304

Male_M3dia posted at 11:13PM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251270

EricVM posted at 6:48AM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251241 ...

" A post you made to "No encrypted for me." has been removed for making accusations and speculation presented as fact". I won't spend another penny there and I spend a lot of pennies for enjoyment with my 3D hobby.

The thing about this walled garden being ridiculously incorrect (and thus your wild speculation deleted) is that DAZ is in the business of selling content, but they don't make their own; they get it from vendors submitting content to them and bringing more content developers into making content. Also their content gets more support from people at different stores making items for their base content and people supporting it with freebies. So if people can't even save content or get content into DS because it's a "walled garden", please explain how do you expect them to sell brokered content or even submit it for review? Again, they don't make content, they sell it. A walled garden can't happen if they want people to continue to make content for DS. That flawed logic is why those speculations were probably deleted, because they simply make no sense. Never mind that it doesn't even cover those that make freebies and/or their own content and don't want to sell at all. This argument conveniently omits how that comes into play. The encryption comes from the standpoint of DAZ wanted to protect the assets they sell, not locking everything down so they can't even get someone to submit it to them.

Think your thoughts all the way through before you post them.

I read it as the reverse - content exclusive to DS. Perhaps he meant walled garden because of content created by DS and sold at DAZ3D might become encrypted to only work on DS and not other pipeline apps. That significantly reduces the value of the content.

Again, think this through... if you're taking content to other apps, how is that getting there? Obj, CR2, FBX, alembic.. those formats still work, and need to work not only for end users, but for content developers as well because they have pipelines that need to work to get things submitted back to daz and other storefronts. If DAZ is advertising from the home page content for Maya and other apps, then those pipelines won't change because it's being exported to those apps... and many of those apps are necessary for content development because you can't make content within DAZ studio. So once again, the walled garden argument is weak at best. The main problem is the fact that the installers themselves are not protected and it's far to easy for them to be uploaded to sites. DAZ is in business to sell content so if they can get it more places they will. But they still have an obligation to protect their assets as well, so it needs to be a balance as not doing anything except sending out take down notices that no longer work is no longer an option. And if other sites find that their content experiences an increase in theft, don't think they won't look into protecting their interests as well.

Also keep in mind that DAZ doesn't sell all types of products. There's things that they will never sell, such as some items that pop up on renderotica, so walling off anything that helps them sell more of their base content doesn't make good business sense either.

If you want to advocate it, that's fine --I just don't share your assessment of what's going on, and my experience tells me that this is the jumping off point with DAZ studio. It won't be long before the only content allowed to be sold will be encrypted, and what then? At that point they've got you by the short hairs and they can do pretty much anything they want. Since the content's already encrypted, you're one "harmless" update away from being held hostage. Then if they decide to make you pay a subscription fee to export their content, or a per use export fee --what are you going to do then? Or if heaven forbid, DAZ was to go out of business a year or two down the road, what happened to all your content? We just had that happen at work where a vendor of a certain Safety program software shut off it's registration server so there was no way you could re-install the software. When we called them about this -we were encouraged to purchase their "new" software which was three times more expensive and did the exact same thing.When I heard that, we immediately told them that we would no longer be giving them our business and that was that. This is the same thing --you're set up so that you're dependent on DAZ3D and then --like every good pusher will tell you --you jack the price up. Sorry, but I'm not going to stick my head in that noose.

will2power posted at 6:20PM Tue, 26 January 2016 - #4251349

If you want to advocate it, that's fine --I just don't share your assessment of what's going on, and my experience tells me that this is the jumping off point with DAZ studio. It won't be long before the only content allowed to be sold will be encrypted, and what then? At that point they've got you by the short hairs and they can do pretty much anything they want. Since the content's already encrypted, you're one "harmless" update away from being held hostage. Then if they decide to make you pay a subscription fee to export their content, or a per use export fee --what are you going to do then? Or if heaven forbid, DAZ was to go out of business a year or two down the road, what happened to all your content? We just had that happen at work where a vendor of a certain Safety program software shut off it's registration server so there was no way you could re-install the software. When we called them about this -we were encouraged to purchase their "new" software which was three times more expensive and did the exact same thing.When I heard that, we immediately told them that we would no longer be giving them our business and that was that. This is the same thing --you're set up so that you're dependent on DAZ3D and then --like every good pusher will tell you --you jack the price up. Sorry, but I'm not going to stick my head in that noose.

Well that's certainly your prerogative; I certainly don't see the end of the world, especially over digital bikinis ;) And not when I have DVDs, digital video TV shows and movies, songs on my ipod, iphone apps, apps purchased through Apples App Store, digital subcriptions to Adobe, Marvelous Designer, Pixologic etc... and what DAZ is doing is nowhere near that. And none of that stops me from doing what I need to do with my content that i purchased licenses too. People are simply letting their imagination and anger get the best of them and if that's cause for you to leave then good luck in your further endeavors. But I've said it before, once the smoke the misinformation has caused clears, many will be back just like so many things in the past.

Being a Vue and IClone user as well, I have my thrills with DRM. Both these outlets use encryption to enforce the EULA and to generate more revenue from users who want to use the same content in competing applications. Two sources of extra revenue - Ref: Vue Export Module and RealLusions IClone Pipeline3D Exchange. These are expensive plug-ins/add-on to the main application and there is an additional premium for content that is "exportable" in the content store. It's not unline airlines adjusting the business model by charging for luggage.

Razor42 posted at 4:32AM Wed, 27 January 2016 - #4251259

Wait a minute didn't you stop using DS months ago?

Almost, nowadays I use it (in the order of 1/2 times per week) to export from DAZ proprietary formats into open ones. To do what I will describe below I will have to actually somewhat get back to it.

Razor42 posted at 4:32AM Wed, 27 January 2016 - #4251259

Well I hate to see you go Chae, but I guess if you're not going to be using Daz Studio anymore I guess that means you wouldn't be dropping into the Daz Studio forums much either.

Probably you missed the part in which I wrote about sharing information with other users.

I, differently from most people, act as soon as I see the writing on the wall and do not, like most persons, wait for the bus to hit me. We can discuss on the timetable for Studio to become a "walled garden" for DAZ content but not on the direction so now finding alternatives to Studio has become a non delayable issue. Since I got so much from the Blender community, I will explore in detail how to move from Studio (and Poser, because Poser is not a viable alternative to Studio, only a time-limited patch to the problem) to Blender and report in detail (read tutorials) on the tools and workflows. It is not different from what I have done with Vue Infinite: one day I decided to stop being ripped off by the maintenance contract and switched to Blender for natural scenes. The first two years were very painful but now everything has settled down, I can create natural renders better than my best Vue works and, relying on FOSS tools, I am forever free from the clutches of greedy fatcats who charge 100's of dollar for every dwindling updates.

P.S.: for bystanders reading this thread: whenever you see somebody singing the praises of DAZ DRM, check their nicknames over DAZ: you will find that most of them are DAZ PAs. Weight their statements accordingly.

@ Chae, A little of topic but I was wondering if this means anything to you?

Razor42 posted at 1:59PM Wed, 27 January 2016 - #4251446

@ Chae, A little of topic but I was wondering if this means anything to you?

DAZ Cloud will be hypercube based? Wow.

I wanted to experiment a bit with DAZ Connect. Is this a program or application, like DIM?! I can't find it anywhere.

DAZ Connect is a part of (integrated into) DS 4.9. It enables searching for products, purchasing, and installation of DAZ3D content directly in DS, without ever leaving DAZ Studio (see this video for more info https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-8Pl2D4sWo ). It does use a different file structure/location than DIM installed content, and if you use the content tab instead of smart content you will need to do a bit of work to make Connect content visible in the content tab. With the introduction of DAZ Connect also came the introduction of encrypted content that requires a "decryption" key. This is what has cause most of the "unrest", though Carrara and Poser users are also upset because Connect and encrypted content aren't usable with either one.

Hope this helps!

chaecuna posted at 11:24AM Wed, 27 January 2016 - #4251429

Razor42 posted at 4:32AM Wed, 27 January 2016 - #4251259

Wait a minute didn't you stop using DS months ago?

Almost, nowadays I use it (in the order of 1/2 times per week) to export from DAZ proprietary formats into open ones. To do what I will describe below I will have to actually somewhat get back to it.

Razor42 posted at 4:32AM Wed, 27 January 2016 - #4251259

Well I hate to see you go Chae, but I guess if you're not going to be using Daz Studio anymore I guess that means you wouldn't be dropping into the Daz Studio forums much either.

Probably you missed the part in which I wrote about sharing information with other users.

I, differently from most people, act as soon as I see the writing on the wall and do not, like most persons, wait for the bus to hit me. We can discuss on the timetable for Studio to become a "walled garden" for DAZ content but not on the direction so now finding alternatives to Studio has become a non delayable issue. Since I got so much from the Blender community, I will explore in detail how to move from Studio (and Poser, because Poser is not a viable alternative to Studio, only a time-limited patch to the problem) to Blender and report in detail (read tutorials) on the tools and workflows. It is not different from what I have done with Vue Infinite: one day I decided to stop being ripped off by the maintenance contract and switched to Blender for natural scenes. The first two years were very painful but now everything has settled down, I can create natural renders better than my best Vue works and, relying on FOSS tools, I am forever free from the clutches of greedy fatcats who charge 100's of dollar for every dwindling updates.

P.S.: for bystanders reading this thread: whenever you see somebody singing the praises of DAZ DRM, check their nicknames over DAZ: you will find that most of them are DAZ PAs. Weight their statements accordingly.

I would be very interested in learning about your workflow from DS/Poser to Blender. Are/will these tutorials be made available in here, or are they somewhere else?

I've been looking more closely at DAZ Studio 4.9. I see the window where you can peek at the store. It's an awfully small window. I'd prefer something that can be adjusted to fill a monitor screen. I have a 24" monitor and 27" monitor. I undocked the content "tab" so I can see more all at once!

will2power posted at 4:56PM Thu, 28 January 2016 - #4251349

If you want to advocate it, that's fine --I just don't share your assessment of what's going on, and my experience tells me that this is the jumping off point with DAZ studio. It won't be long before the only content allowed to be sold will be encrypted, and what then? At that point they've got you by the short hairs and they can do pretty much anything they want. Since the content's already encrypted, you're one "harmless" update away from being held hostage. Then if they decide to make you pay a subscription fee to export their content, or a per use export fee --what are you going to do then? Or if heaven forbid, DAZ was to go out of business a year or two down the road, what happened to all your content? We just had that happen at work where a vendor of a certain Safety program software shut off it's registration server so there was no way you could re-install the software. When we called them about this -we were encouraged to purchase their "new" software which was three times more expensive and did the exact same thing.When I heard that, we immediately told them that we would no longer be giving them our business and that was that. This is the same thing --you're set up so that you're dependent on DAZ3D and then --like every good pusher will tell you --you jack the price up. Sorry, but I'm not going to stick my head in that noose.

I agree with you. DazConnect is bad news all the way around.

I can't support the Daz Apologists on this one. Things are never going to be the same

I just want to buy stuff from DAZ & use it. I don't want to hunt, search, work for it. Just use it.

There is already a massive amount of content that can be used for DAZ, and that will always exist. If DAZ does lock things down, they will face the same problem Poser does - a massive part of their user base will be stuck on 4.8, and less and less new content will be usable.

I think they are aware of that issue. Most of the new items being offered still have DRM free options. The other thing DAZ is trying to do is get the file paths locked down to make updating easier. That is getting mixed up with the DRM issues. They aren't the same thing.

In short, there is no reason not to move to 4.9. Whether you buy encrypted content is up to you. If you don't like the concept, can't use the product because you want to port it, or any other reason, then don't buy it.

Frankly, as long as people are going to speculate, I speculate DAZ is eventually going to drop encryption because it makes the perceived value of their content less. In short there will be decreased volume unless they drop the price of the encrypted items. As of the present, they have pretty much given everything away. It will be interesting to see what happens when thy stop doing that. I guarantee you that encrypting is not going to increase revenue.

diogenese19348 posted at 7:04PM Mon, 01 February 2016 - #4252564

There is already a massive amount of content that can be used for DAZ, and that will always exist. If DAZ does lock things down, they will face the same problem Poser does - a massive part of their user base will be stuck on 4.8, and less and less new content will be usable.

I think they are aware of that issue. Most of the new items being offered still have DRM free options. The other thing DAZ is trying to do is get the file paths locked down to make updating easier. That is getting mixed up with the DRM issues. They aren't the same thing.

In short, there is no reason not to move to 4.9. Whether you buy encrypted content is up to you. If you don't like the concept, can't use the product because you want to port it, or any other reason, then don't buy it.

Frankly, as long as people are going to speculate, I speculate DAZ is eventually going to drop encryption because it makes the perceived value of their content less. In short there will be decreased volume unless they drop the price of the encrypted items. As of the present, they have pretty much given everything away. It will be interesting to see what happens when thy stop doing that. I guarantee you that encrypting is not going to increase revenue.

DAZ isn't going to drop encryption - they have sunk too much time & effort into it. They will ride the plan down in flames, because they never, ever have a plan B. If necessary, they will dump their entire userbase and get a new one - they have done it before. Also pay attention to the words that DAZ has used when talking about encryption "not at this time", "in the future, all content will be delivered by Connect", etc.

It is just like the issue of locking down content location - The easiest solution is to simply set standards and enforce them with vendors. Much cheaper and easier than developing a database to track everything.

Locking down file paths is worse in my opinion than DRM. That doesn't help when every single vendor has a different way of setting up subfolders under the 1st layer of folder. Currently the user has to remember which vendor made which product because almost everything is hidden inside of a vendor's ego folder. Not to mention that most vendors that sell add-on content for DS aren't smart enough to either insure their add-on product slides into the base product's file structure or the put the name of the base product anywhere in the file structure of of their add-on. See Mad Nurse for Genesis 1 & 2 and it's add-ons for a worst case scenario example.

@ ssgbryan Do you read the responses to your posts a number of things you're pointing out here again have been corrected elsewhere in response to the point last time you made it? It seem you continue to put forward assumptions even if they are proved to be incorrect.

DAZ isn't going to drop encryption - they have sunk too much time & effort into it. They will ride the plan down in flames, because they never, ever have a plan B. If necessary, they will dump their entire userbase and get a new one - they have done it before. Also pay attention to the words that DAZ has used when talking about encryption "not at this time", "in the future, all content will be delivered by Connect", etc.

DAZ CONNECT IS NOT ENCRYPTION....

It is just like the issue of locking down content location - The easiest solution is to simply set standards and enforce them with vendors. Much cheaper and easier than developing a database to track everything.

If that is the easiest solution why has not one single marketplace been successful in instigating a standard for either Poser or DS consistantly? Daz connect locks down content paths to allow incremental updates, which many users are glad to see. Honestly there isn't even a consensus among those that want a consensus on where a file belongs in the content library.

Again I will ask you a simple question if the solution is so easy to folder structure.

Where is the correct place to put folders for a set of Genesis 3 Eye reflection mat presets that work on both Genesis 3 Male and Genesis 3 Female? Simple question. Simple answer?

The data files (textures and geometry in Poser terms) have always been locked down - if you move them you break the scripts. The scripts themselves can be moved in most cases, and that is how I organize my content. What was always missing was shortcuts, ie pointers to the script files that could be read by the content library pane.

Frankly the downside to the system I use is any time a product is updated, I again need to figure out where I put the scripts, because If I don't I now have two versions of the same product in my library, one of which might not work correctly. I would have vastly preferred to leave the scripts alone and used pointers to them.

DAZ tries to get around that with the content manager database, but I have been using DAZ a long time, and frankly putting non-daz products in it is a pain, and in the early days DAZ managed to repeatedly break custom categories. From what I am hearing on their boards, they still are. They haven't managed to break my file organization yet.

Since they are allowing the use of shortcuts now, at least with their products, I will be happy to leave those scripts where ever the hell they plop them down because I am never going to look at that location.

And yes, I still think DAZ will drop encryption if it continually hurts sales. Just as the music business has. Where it doesn't hurt sales it stays in place.

I personally cannot see how encrypting 3D content can possibly help sales.

diogenese19348 posted at 11:02AM Tue, 02 February 2016 - #4252701

The data files (textures and geometry in Poser terms) have always been locked down - if you move them you break the scripts. The scripts themselves can be moved in most cases, and that is how I organize my content. What was always missing was shortcuts, ie pointers to the script files that could be read by the content library pane.

Frankly the downside to the system I use is any time a product is updated, I again need to figure out where I put the scripts, because If I don't I now have two versions of the same product in my library, one of which might not work correctly. I would have vastly preferred to leave the scripts alone and used pointers to them.

DAZ tries to get around that with the content manager database, but I have been using DAZ a long time, and frankly putting non-daz products in it is a pain, and in the early days DAZ managed to repeatedly break custom categories. From what I am hearing on their boards, they still are. They haven't managed to break my file organization yet.

Since they are allowing the use of shortcuts now, at least with their products, I will be happy to leave those scripts where ever the hell they plop them down because I am never going to look at that location.

And yes, I still think DAZ will drop encryption if it continually hurts sales. Just as the music business has. Where it doesn't hurt sales it stays in place.

I personally cannot see how encrypting 3D content can possibly help sales.

Actually drm didn't get dropped in music because of low sales. Piracy was less of an issue because the mechanism to get music was far easier to get on your device from the iTunes stores for $1 than scour websites for music that could potentially put viruses on your computer. This is true especially when you don't even have to go on the computer to get music, you just search on the device itself and you have the file in about 2 minutes. Video files are still encrypted from the store because the same hasn't occurred due to the size of video and the price of files can still be more expensive than finding a site to download them.

Male_M3dia posted at 10:23AM Tue, 02 February 2016 - #4252722

Actually drm didn't get dropped in music because of low sales. Piracy was less of an issue because the mechanism to get music was far easier to get on your device from the iTunes stores for $1 than scour websites for music that could potentially put viruses on your computer. This is true especially when you don't even have to go on the computer to get music, you just search on the device itself and you have the file in about 2 minutes. Video files are still encrypted from the store because the same hasn't occurred due to the size of video and the price of files can still be more expensive than finding a site to download them.

It certainly didn't get them more sales which is the point of the whole thing. The problem is this: When you're dealing with physical items, theft costs you every time. If someone shoplifts a DVD from a store, the store is out the money they bought the DVD for. It doesn't matter if they could have sold the DVD to that person if they could have prevented him stealing it, it cost them money either way. The record label on the other hand still made money - they already sold their product to the store.

When you are dealing with intellectual property the situation is different. There, the only way deterring theft helps you is if you can get increased sales by making it harder to use your product without paying you since there is no incremental cost for manufacturing copies of the product. Actually the primary target is probably more casual sharing than the warez sites. Your more likely to get an extra sale from someone who is sharing files with his friends via sneaker-net, then you are from someone who is collecting a whole lot of stuff and never using it.

So from an accounting standpoint, are the increased sales from files that were once casually shared offsetting the people that no longer want your product due to your encryption or other DRM making it harder to use your product than it is worth to them?

And that is why the music industry, who were the first to employ DRM to start with, dropped it. There was no cost-benefit.

diogenese19348 posted at 12:33PM Tue, 02 February 2016 - #4252732

Male_M3dia posted at 10:23AM Tue, 02 February 2016 - #4252722

Actually drm didn't get dropped in music because of low sales. Piracy was less of an issue because the mechanism to get music was far easier to get on your device from the iTunes stores for $1 than scour websites for music that could potentially put viruses on your computer. This is true especially when you don't even have to go on the computer to get music, you just search on the device itself and you have the file in about 2 minutes. Video files are still encrypted from the store because the same hasn't occurred due to the size of video and the price of files can still be more expensive than finding a site to download them.

It certainly didn't get them more sales which is the point of the whole thing. The problem is this: When you're dealing with physical items, theft costs you every time. If someone shoplifts a DVD from a store, the store is out the money they bought the DVD for. It doesn't matter if they could have sold the DVD to that person if they could have prevented him stealing it, it cost them money either way. The record label on the other hand still made money - they already sold their product to the store.

When you are dealing with intellectual property the situation is different. There, the only way deterring theft helps you is if you can get increased sales by making it harder to use your product without paying you since there is no incremental cost for manufacturing copies of the product. Actually the primary target is probably more casual sharing than the warez sites. Your more likely to get an extra sale from someone who is sharing files with his friends via sneaker-net, then you are from someone who is collecting a whole lot of stuff and never using it.

So from an accounting standpoint, are the increased sales from files that were once casually shared offsetting the people that no longer want your product due to your encryption or other DRM making it harder to use your product than it is worth to them?

And that is why the music industry, who were the first to employ DRM to start with, dropped it. There was no cost-benefit.

Actually it did help sales, since the convenience of having access to not only your library but the store in the palm of your hand made it not worth looking online for sites to illegally download songs and made smart phones so popular. Certainly help close the majority of music store chains, except for a few specialty ones that had import sections. And it did increase revenue enough so that Apple could get the music industry to remove DRM from those files.. though they did charge you 30 cents more for the privilege. The explosion of the iphone and other smart devices helped lower piracy over when DRM was instituted over the backlash of the music industry from the napster days.

Male_M3dia posted at 11:57AM Tue, 02 February 2016 - #4252746

Actually it did help sales, since the convenience of having access to not only your library but the store in the palm of your hand made it not worth looking online for sites to illegally download songs and made smart phones so popular. Certainly help close the majority of music store chains, except for a few specialty ones that had import sections. And it did increase revenue enough so that Apple could get the music industry to remove DRM from those files.. though they did charge you 30 cents more for the privilege. The explosion of the iphone and other smart devices helped lower piracy over when DRM was instituted over the backlash of the music industry from the napster days.

The music industry was probably a special case, since they were dragged, kicking and screaming, into the download business. At the time of Napster I don't recall there being any legal way to download MP3's - The music industry was fighting it because the record labels didn't want to lose control of their distribution channels. They were still only interested in selling physical CD's.they didn't care if it was from a brick and mortar store or an online one - but it had to be a CD. The only early exception I can find was Ritmoteca.com which was primarily Latin music. Napster of course brought things to a head simply because at the time they were the all-time-king copyright violator. They also knocked ritmoteca out since they didn't bother paying for their music, and ritmoteca did.

Clearly you have to throw some roadblocks in the way of people thinking they can use your intellectual property for free. Also it is clear if charge an arm and a leg for it, they'll find a way around it.

I imagine Apple was successful at getting the DRM removed (and the price lowered) at least in part because independent labels and bands managed to break the stranglehold the big labels had on the recording industry.

I still have to say that making customers who are already paying you for your product inconvenienced in using it is a sure way to lose sales. I'm not saying DAZ is doing that, I think a lot of the reaction is over "what if" rather than "what is"

diogenese19348 posted at 2:12PM Tue, 02 February 2016 - #4252749

Male_M3dia posted at 11:57AM Tue, 02 February 2016 - #4252746

Actually it did help sales, since the convenience of having access to not only your library but the store in the palm of your hand made it not worth looking online for sites to illegally download songs and made smart phones so popular. Certainly help close the majority of music store chains, except for a few specialty ones that had import sections. And it did increase revenue enough so that Apple could get the music industry to remove DRM from those files.. though they did charge you 30 cents more for the privilege. The explosion of the iphone and other smart devices helped lower piracy over when DRM was instituted over the backlash of the music industry from the napster days.

The music industry was probably a special case, since they were dragged, kicking and screaming, into the download business. At the time of Napster I don't recall there being any legal way to download MP3's - The music industry was fighting it because the record labels didn't want to lose control of their distribution channels. They were still only interested in selling physical CD's.they didn't care if it was from a brick and mortar store or an online one - but it had to be a CD. The only early exception I can find was Ritmoteca.com which was primarily Latin music. Napster of course brought things to a head simply because at the time they were the all-time-king copyright violator. They also knocked ritmoteca out since they didn't bother paying for their music, and ritmoteca did.

Clearly you have to throw some roadblocks in the way of people thinking they can use your intellectual property for free. Also it is clear if charge an arm and a leg for it, they'll find a way around it.

I imagine Apple was successful at getting the DRM removed (and the price lowered) at least in part because independent labels and bands managed to break the stranglehold the big labels had on the recording industry.

I still have to say that making customers who are already paying you for your product inconvenienced in using it is a sure way to lose sales. I'm not saying DAZ is doing that, I think a lot of the reaction is over "what if" rather than "what is"

Really the things that make devices like the iPhone and services like Steam popular despite the DRM is that there was a balance between protection and ease of use so it didn't feel much like things were being protected. I think that's what DAZ is trying to do in this case. Myself, I prefer to have things without DRM, but it doesn't bother me nor my workflow since so many of my tools and devices I use and own have protection in place, yet I'm still able to not only make my art but use it as well.