I'm sorry if this is a bit blunt or rude, but I can't think of a more polite way to say it. I've been using DAZ for a bit over a year now, and bought plenty of stuff from them. But I generally won't touch a product unless its more than 50% off, generally not if less than 65% off. So while I find things I like here, I almost never buy any of them. When the "sale" price is only 25% off, it's hard to get excited. Is there some hidden sale thing that I'm missing here?

This place probably being more vendor-supportive when the management does sales this way. The other marketplace is very selling-driven, and that's cashflow-centric behaviour. I suppose it is a different business model, from what I see.

At Daz the initial price of a product is generally higher. I've seen models going for upward of $40, at Daz so even with 40-50% off you're still looking at $20 Models over here are around $15-$20. pick a few items that are similar at Daz and here and compare...

I agree with JV. Things are high priced to begin with over at Daz. To me, it's when they have their huge discounts that I will purchase something there. I can't afford their 'normal' pricing, where as here I still can to some extent.

Hello Guys and Ladies !

I am a vendor here and a very hard working person, aiming for the highest quality possible, while at the same time I seek to expand my skills. Renderosity is a place which respect the creators and the hard work they are going through so that can keep the quality high which we all like and appreciate so. At the same time Renderosity has grown immensely its regular group sales.If you keep on track and subscribe to receive site's newsletter via your mail, you would realize that every month they have sometimes more than one vendor group sales and they have recently started theme sales too. Prime members sometimes receive more than 50% discount of a product and while all this with the sales is growing, vendors barely sale their products at the original price of the product any more. At the stores below you will even find prices of 4-5$, many if not all of the items are compatible with Daz as well. Personally, I am not interested in keeping the products there to sit without selling,even if some of them have taken month to be made. So, there is variety at the prices for the benefit of all. Among those who seek for the lowest price possible, exist also those who ask for quality and are ready to pay for it, because they might understand more the work that is needed to be made for a high quality product and they can afford it. Personally I find decent the prices of this site for both the costumers and the vendors. If the quality is not so good but the price is high,then both the customer and the creator have the choice to act accordingly. ShaaraMuse store and mine are up to raise the sales in many products, it has already begun...Stay tuned and I would suggest to also explore each vendors' stores not just only by product.When we scroll down at vendors' stores we can find amazing opportunities that will fit our creative demands as well. Thank you for sharing this!

The Stores I collaborate with including mine...

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?uid=799176

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vendor/ShaaraMuse3D

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/vendor/Frequency

May Peace be within you!

Both for vendors and customers, this is not the easiest balance to strike. Some are hobby artists and sell on their spare time, for others, it's their sole livelihood. What's a fair price depends on so many factors, like size of the product (variety, number of props in a scene, morphs, textures etc), and quality/detail, versatility, not to mention how much work there is involved to produce it.

The pricing I set as a vendor is generally lower than similar items like it at Daz, so 50% off really isn't needed to have the similar prices or lower prices than Daz (even when theirs is at a big 50% or more discount). But, there are many times through-out the year that we have group sales or store sales that are around the 50% mark (or more). So, if you're goal is by items at a bigger discount, you should really check into the PRIME membership. The extra discounts and coupons pays for itself in less than a month depending on what you buy and how often you buy. As a Renderosity vendor, I'd rather sale here because of the freedom we are given to how we price our products, our ability to put them on sale, have special Prime FLASH deals, create bundle deals and participate in the group sales (that often have some cool, fun themes).

Do yourself a favor and check-out the prime deals here https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?br=prime and here https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?TopID=539133. You won't see the general prices that low at Daz.

Hmm. I ran a check of 15 things in my wishlist here, compared to the closest items I could find at DAZ. Before sales, the average here was about 78% cheaper, and the product seemed to be generally a better product. Does seem to be skewed towards older figures though.

Thank you for taking the time to weigh in. I guess I'll just be patient.

Maddelirium's sale today was certainly nice!

Edit: And I'll take a look at the prime thing.

Glad to try to help.

If the Prime sales are so great I wonder why there are scores of people stating they will not renew when their membership ends.

Nice that Rendo are being nice to the vendors, perhaps they are trying to make up for throwing the Prime vendors under the bus when they blamed them for all the Prime changes when the real reason was Rendo wanted to take all of the Prime subscription and a cut of the Prime Sales.

Daz is not the only competitor, the biggest I will accept but look at the prices at Hivewire3D and the sales and the fact that everyone scores points on their purchases that can be used on future items.

The reason for the lack of sales here is the concentration on the god of the bottom line at the expense of any sort of customer service or community.

How often do new products get added to the Prime catalogue? Right now there's only 8 items in it that I'm interested in. The membership cost is about $4.6 more than the savings I'd get, but if there's frequent additions it might still be worth it for me.

Even DAZ's 40-50% off "sale" prices are generally much higher or comparable to the 25-30% off sale prices here. For instance, at DAZ, Xiuying character for Mei Lin 7: 40% off. Reg price $17.95, sale price $10.77 (This seems to be pretty standard pricing for characters there now).

Here, Jilleen for Genesis 3 Females: 25% Off Reg price $13.95 Sale Price: $10.46
TDT-Tasha for Genesis 3 Female: 21% Off Reg Price $12.50 Sale Price $9.87 (So close to the same final price or less)

But this is not the first time I've heard people complain that the sales here are not as great as the sales at DAZ. They're only looking at the % off, not the final sale price. Almost makes me want to rethink my pricing here, but I'm really not sure how many people are that myopic.

@thistledown

Wow, you have fallen for the marketing-trick!

So you rather have the vendors here make their prices two times as high and then give you a 50% discount? Because that's how it works afterall.

Go ahead and continue to fool yourself!

The longer I think about this the more sad it makes me. Don't you know that vendors are people that put a lot of effort in their stuff.

What you saying is that that effort isn't worth paying more then a dime for.

Why on earth would vendors make products any longer when they aren't appreciated, or even worse are only appreciated when it so dead cheap,

one cannot even get the costs out from buying software or addons to make the products in the first place!

thistledown super dissappointing!

Biscuits posted at 5:12PM Sat, 09 April 2016 - #4264809

The longer I think about this the more sad it makes me. Don't you know that vendors are people that put a lot of effort in their stuff.

What you saying is that that effort isn't worth paying more then a dime for.

Why on earth would vendors make products any longer when they aren't appreciated, or even worse are only appreciated when it so dead cheap,

one cannot even get the costs out from buying software or addons to make the products in the first place!

thistledown super dissappointing!

I do understand that vendors are people and they do put a lot of effort into their products and I also accept that, in general, the prices for content are far too low and in no way reflects the effort. In the past I have paid $49.95 for a highly detailed spacecraft just for the fact it was so highly detailed and something different and I have, and still do pay such amounts for something a little different. The point is that these are niche products and I am not going to spend the same for say a dynamic dress for Dawn when I can get some very good dresses at around the $5 mark.

In the past I have used my Prime membership to try out some vendors and then moved on to buy a number of full priced products from the same vendors. That was before Prime was trashed and I don't do that anymore, I don't shop here at all anymore. The reason is simple, when Rendo is taking a Prime subscription and one of the benefits is a monthly 'freebie', which of course it is not, I sort of feel uneasy. When it is then discovered that the paid for 'freebie' is not commissioned by Rendo but is donated by a vendor, I find that immoral.

I do feel sorry for the vendors and I am prepared to pay a more representative price but not here at Rendo.

For the record I have picked up many items from Daz at 70%+ off, or $3-$5, admitted that is for some quite old Poser content that has probably earned the Vendor a fair bit over the years. They work in Poser and many are the same quality of a lot of the stuff here so there are sales that are real sales.

It really doesn't matter what the discount is, it's the end price and what you get for it that counts. I think the perception here is bad simply because they changed the sales model back in July 2015, and never got around to explaining to us fully what to expect from the new one. Coupons for example are all but useless now. They aren't enough to make you jump on a full price product, and there are so many varying restrictions on them that it isn't really worth trying to figure out what they are good for.

I think part of the problem is that so much of the site is now devoted to paid advertising, rather than promoting items on the site that even when you go to the sale page you first see items that have nothing to do with the sale.

In other words, it isn't the prices that are the problem, they are fine, it's the way the sales are promoted, and the fact it is too much work to figure out if now is a good time to buy.

At DAZ it is rather the other way around, I go over there and I have a pretty good idea if I am going to buy the item immediately or I am going to wait six months to pick it up (assuming of course I want it at all). The expectation is that if I buy it now, I can get it for 50%+ off by jumping through a few hoops, or I can wait until the new car smell wears off, and pick it up on some kind of sale at least 50% off without hoops six months down the road.

Here? There isn't any rhyme or reason to what discount you can reasonably expect to get at any time.

There is also a bit of a problem with QA, I am a DAZ user, and anything I buy over there will work in DAZ - or will get fixed quickly.

Here, there is still a bunch of stuff that is iffy. Most of which I am an advanced enough user to get around, but it still decreases the perceived value of the product particularly if I have to evaluate the risk during the buying decision.

In regards to DTHUREGRIF's point, that's the reason I am leery of buying characters here. I don't have any problem with hers, I know her work and I have never had a problem with any of her figures. (By the way - is there ever going to be a Genesis 3 version of Liv?) But some of the lesser known vendors, I have bought characters and had to remove them because they threw error messages - even when that character was not in the scene of course because it had been added to the "gene pool" and had a circular reference or other type problem.

And I of course have no idea what the impact on sales have been here since July - they may be flat or they may be going through the roof. In my case I can't say I have really seen any significant change in my buying habits, at least looking at my reward numbers. I have noticed it's tending to flat line now, I buy about the same amount every month. Previous to this I had some really heavy buying periods due to sales, particularly the ones where you built up your rewards percentage by how much you bought. Overall, taking into account my rewards went from 5% to 7% with the change in Prime, I'm spending about 10% less this year.

diogenese19348 posted at 11:45AM Sat, 09 April 2016 - #4264836

In regards to DTHUREGRIF's point, that's the reason I am leery of buying characters here. I don't have any problem with hers, I know her work and I have never had a problem with any of her figures. (By the way - is there ever going to be a Genesis 3 version of Liv?)

Funny you should mention that. I've been thinking about making some of my characters into G3 versions. Liv would definitely be one. She's by far my favorite character.

Something to think about. You create a product & sell it here. Your product sells for $10, right off the bat you give away $5 of that $10. Now if the vendor puts it on sale for 50% off, they are only getting $2.50 after all is said & done. Then, at the end of the year, you have to pay taxes on your sales, which takes more of your hard earned money. Do you really think it's worth it for vendors to spend weeks on creating something & just giving it to you for dead cheap all the time?

3DFineries posted at 8:09AM Mon, 11 April 2016 - #4264933

Something to think about. You create a product & sell it here. Your product sells for $10, right off the bat you give away $5 of that $10. Now if the vendor puts it on sale for 50% off, they are only getting $2.50 after all is said & done. Then, at the end of the year, you have to pay taxes on your sales, which takes more of your hard earned money. Do you really think it's worth it for vendors to spend weeks on creating something & just giving it to you for dead cheap all the time?

There are so many factors that impact that though, is the product just a rehash of a product for another figure, is the product something special, if so you can up the price. If it is just another product in a vast array of similar products for the same figure your asking price will have to be low. Is the vendor doing research into the market, where it is and where it is going, if the product is aimed at an early version on Poser or DS a lot of the users of the new versions will not buy. If it is a character does it include materials for the new render engines in both programs, if not then the users of those render engines will may well not buy.

I general I accept that vendors get a very poor return on their efforts which is why I am prepared to spend much more on a product that is produced with the later versions of Poser or is a little different. These days I use Dawn as a go to figure, I still use V4 but I really don't need any new V4 content. I am more than happy to spend a little more on a good Dawn product such as the Dawn Master Skin Resource by 3Dream, which I think in stunning well worth the $29.95 in quality alone and I also accept it will have limited appeal. I know products for Dawn will not sell in the same numbers as Genesis 3 but I am not convinced there is not money to be made as there is less competition. I know, someone is going to answer this by saying we tried to support Dawn when the figure was launched but the sales were poor but Dawn has moved on since launch and such comments go back to my point of staying up with the market.

The skin resource I mentioned is still in the Market Place at the same price I paid in August of last year so it still must be selling in sufficient numbers to warrant it's inclusion. Vendors should get a better return on their efforts but for some vendors at least they are going to have to put in the efforts and step outside their comfort zone for this to happen.

I am not arguing with the original point but just suggesting the coin has two sides.

These are digital products - there are no incremental costs for selling more units, you are better off selling 10 at $2.50 a piece than 2 at $10.00 The problem is getting the volume so that your total return is worth the time you put into it not setting the price of an individual unit. As hornet3d points out, market fragmentation is not your friend in this equation.

What DAZ is doing is pushing volume, they give you a very definite reason why you should buy it now - because for a period of time that product will be a lot more expensive. So you buy it now or you wait six months.

Again, the problem I see at this location is that no such expectation is being set. It's not that the prices are out of line (at 20-30% off anyway), It's that currently we have no idea of when it is a good time to buy, with the exception of Prime Flash sales. So for myself anyway, I put stuff on my wish list which I was doing before - but it tends to set there longer now because I have no idea of when I should be buying it. If it turns out I need the item for a current project, I buy it. Previous to July my tendency was to use that monthly Prime coupon to clear out any sale items in my wishlist once a month where I could be reliably be counted on to spend at least $100.

I also have artists here I regularly buy from at the slightest sign of a discount. Their items are high quality and unique, much like hornet3d is referring to.

holy crap! most vendors work very hard and for long hours to create a product. but i only ever see whinging because we do not practically GIVE away our creations. maybe some of you should walk in a vendors shoes before you complain at prices..........

RPublishing posted at 2:52PM Tue, 12 April 2016 - #4264562

The pricing I set as a vendor is generally lower than similar items like it at Daz, so 50% off really isn't needed to have the similar prices or lower prices than Daz (even when theirs is at a big 50% or more discount). But, there are many times through-out the year that we have group sales or store sales that are around the 50% mark (or more). So, if you're goal is by items at a bigger discount, you should really check into the PRIME membership. The extra discounts and coupons pays for itself in less than a month depending on what you buy and how often you buy. As a Renderosity vendor, I'd rather sale here because of the freedom we are given to how we price our products, our ability to put them on sale, have special Prime FLASH deals, create bundle deals and participate in the group sales (that often have some cool, fun themes).

Do yourself a favor and check-out the prime deals here https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?br=prime and here https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?TopID=539133. You won't see the general prices that low at Daz.

Many of us want nothing to do with Prime ever since you neutered it thanks to the fact that you had the nerve to remove 100% royalties to vendors, these forums STILL USE THE ACCURSED MARKDOWN, and your asinine no-competing freebies sites WHICH NO OTHER COMPETING POSER MP SITE DOES!!! I still consider Platinum Club to be a far better deal than Prime-- it was close to equal, if not even better than PC back before you neutered it.

And you have only in the past few weeks began to run sales of more than 40% off for non-prime members (and I seem to recall reading not long ago that you actually placed a LIMIT on vendors of a max of 40% off discount for non prime members-- I'm glad to see that you are at least letting them set their own sales again. Or at least I hope you are-- IMO it should be entirely up to the vendor whether or not to put their products on sale and by how much-- Daz does that with brokered products, and it's one of the things that bothers me the most about them. I don't care if they do that with Daz Original products, just like I don't care if Rendo does that with a product by say-- Rhiannon or Graycloud that is also an Rpublishing product)

holy crap! most vendors work very hard and for long hours to create a product. but i only ever see whinging because we do not practically GIVE away our creations. maybe some of you should walk in a vendors shoes before you complain at prices..........

Would you rather we not buy them at all? Because for many of us that is the only alternative. Most of us can't afford to purchase more than 25 to 50 USD worth of products per month (I can usually afford 50~150 per month, but when there are other competing sites that we split our spending between, then we're forced to wait until something is 50~70% off. (MAYBE 40% if it's something that we're at the edge of our seat to get) The fact is, for many customers, full price isn't an option (for me it probably is, if I limited myself to 5 or less products per month here, and restricted the rest of my monthly purchases to a few PC items at Daz.)

What you saying is that that effort isn't worth paying more then a dime for.

It doesn't matter if it's worth 100 bucks. If someone doesn't have 100 bucks to spend, or if they only have 200 bucks and have to prioritize on what they want to get between Daz, formerly RDNA, Hivewire, CGBytes, etc., then they simply cannot afford it, or alternatively will have to prioritize-- which isn't easy when you don't know what will be on sale on each site and by how much for the remainder of the month.

For the record I have picked up many items from Daz at 70%+ off, or $3-$5, admitted that is for some quite old Poser content that has probably earned the Vendor a fair bit over the years. They work in Poser and many are the same quality of a lot of the stuff here so there are sales that are real sales.

Excellent point-- that is a major problem here-- DAZ infrequently (between 2x a month to once every 3 months) will have a flash or even blink sale where the current gen products are 40 or 50% off, previous gen 50 or 60% off, previous genx2 60 to 70% off, and V4/M4 products 80% off. V4/M4 80% off sales are much more frequent than the other categories, and have been for the last two years.
Unfortunately, Rendo discards stagnating products far too easily (and vendors don't even have a choice over the matter, which IMO is WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!! It should be 100% up to the vendors when and if they pull their own products) I don't get why 7 year old and older clearance items can't be on sale more often, while products made within the past 4 years are only on 40~60% off sale once or twice a year IF THE VENDOR APPROVES (during the holiday season and maybe 1 other time of year-- maybe.) As I said, I think it's wrong and that publishers/brokers have no right to decide if and when a vendor's or developer's product is on sale-- the publishers/brokers didn't make it, so they have no right to dictate when it is on discount and by how much.

IceEmpress posted at 8:21AM Wed, 13 April 2016 - #4265312

IMO it should be entirely up to the vendor whether or not to put their products on sale and by how much-- Daz does that with brokered products, and it's one of the things that bothers me the most about them. )

Sorry, no brokerage does that.

Vendors here DO decide when to put their products on sale & the percentage discounts. No one has ever told me I have to put my items on sale. I decide that & if there are group sales, as we often have here, I decide if I want to add my products to that sale. No one else decides that for me. Sure I have to select the options of discounts provided, but that's neither here nor there.

3DFineries posted at 12:18PM Wed, 13 April 2016 - #4265374

Vendors here DO decide when to put their products on sale & the percentage discounts. No one has ever told me I have to put my items on sale. I decide that & if there are group sales, as we often have here, I decide if I want to add my products to that sale. No one else decides that for me. Sure I have to select the options of discounts provided, but that's neither here nor there.

Vendors can't opt out of coupons however and that's really the equivalent of store-wide sales at DAZ. You can sometimes getting around some sales (such as coupons that won't apply to sales items) by adding a small percentage discount on the items (like when you see an item on sale for 1%) Vendors can put their items on sale with a particular percentage around that, making sure that there isn't a coupon that will take an extra percentage off that price. However if there is a coupon for all products in the store, the vendor won't be able to opt out of that.

That may be true, but store wide coupons are totally different than vendors deciding sales & percentages.

There is a danger of missing the point here, it really does not matter how often you try to justify the prices or how long you argue over who decides on sale and sale prices. The question was 'why are sales here so terrible', so it is fact some feel that the sales here are not competitive. Add to that those who do not buy anything here anymore, or spend a great deal less and Rendo is missing opportunities which clearly means the vendors are too.

Perceived poor sales added to a market place that is hard to use and difficult to search and site software that appears to date back to the dawn of time is not an appealing package. Argue all you like about the reasons why, but until something is done to change either the fact or the perception nothing will change. Navel contemplation never appears to be a good strategy for moving forward.

Sorry, no brokerage does that.

Well, they all should. I also think that 50/50 royalties is much too low. The artists are the ones who do most of the work, so they should get most of the money. The exception being a vendor who only releases one or two products a year-- in which case the effort is likely closer to 50/50 depending on product quality and how much effort TPtB put into site redesign, bug testing/removal, server changes, etc. that particular year.

Vendors here DO decide when to put their products on sale & the percentage discounts. No one has ever told me I have to put my items on sale. I decide that & if there are group sales, as we often have here, I decide if I want to add my products to that sale. No one else decides that for me. Sure I have to select the options of discounts provided, but that's neither here nor there.

Good. I'm very glad to hear that Rendo does that. Definitely one thing that they have over Daz.

Vendors can't opt out of coupons however

I thought sure they could here. The coupons usually say "some vendors may not participate"

IceEmpress posted at 7:48PM Wed, 13 April 2016 - #4265420

Sorry, no brokerage does that.

Well, they all should. I also think that 50/50 royalties is much too low. The artists are the ones who do most of the work, so they should get most of the money. The exception being a vendor who only releases one or two products a year-- in which case the effort is likely closer to 50/50 depending on product quality and how much effort TPtB put into site redesign, bug testing/removal, server changes, etc. that particular year.

Vendors here DO decide when to put their products on sale & the percentage discounts. No one has ever told me I have to put my items on sale. I decide that & if there are group sales, as we often have here, I decide if I want to add my products to that sale. No one else decides that for me. Sure I have to select the options of discounts provided, but that's neither here nor there.

Good. I'm very glad to hear that Rendo does that. Definitely one thing that they have over Daz.

No they don't. PAs can put their items on sale with percentages as well if they speak to marketing about it. But that's in addition to promotions that vendors at BOTH sites can't opt out of... store-wide sales at DAZ, coupons here.

Vendors can't opt out of coupons however

I thought sure they could here. The coupons usually say "some vendors may not participate"

Not in the past. Previously the only way to get out would have been if the coupon specified that it did work on items already on sale; then they can give their items a 1% discount. The "some vendors" may mean the same thing as the coupon wouldn't cover some new releases, but "some" doesn't mean "everyone" can opt out.

The business relationship is between the vendor and the brokerage and really has nothing to do with the OP's original question, but this is a stretch.

• Well, they all should. I also think that 50/50 royalties is much too low. The artists are the ones who do most of the work, so they should get most of the money. The exception being a vendor who only releases one or two products a year-- in which case the effort is likely closer to 50/50 depending on product quality and how much effort TPtB put into site redesign, bug testing/removal, server changes, etc. that particular year.

Who would administer this Ice? some sort of UN of the 3D content world? Of course they would need at least a 20% cut for the funding which would push the price up straight away. Do you know the costs involved in running these sites with staff and outgoings? probably not. Infinity10 and JVRenderer hit the nail on the head in the first two comments it is a different business model and it is the initial price that matters. There is nothing wrong with either type and the customer has choices just like in the real world....... shop to your budget and have eyes in the back of your head, you will win some and you will lose some. I realize it is difficult for many that have a limited budget to pursue their hobby or indeed their aim to be a content creator but if you take a long hard look at things the 2D/3D industry is probably the most generous of all and someone with no budget at all can get through with quality product.

Why sales are so low "HERE". As on "this" site?

Try this for an answer:

Renderosity management is chasing everybody out with their new policy. No links allowed, no working forums, all stuff (Marketplace and Freestuf area's) everything gets thrown on a big pile. No possibility to search by app, by figure, by subfolder like "Poser Hair", "Dynamic hair", "V4 Conforming dress" and so on.

Before we could => Select an app => Select a figure => Select a subfolder => Get what we were looking for..

Now? ? ? ?