SamTherapy posted at 3:40PM Fri, 31 March 2017 - #4301055

119 is still above average. Even with a drop it's above average. If you're feeling ill or tired, that can also take its toll. My father narrowly missed genius level on Mensa's testing because he was recovering from heart surgery at the time. Sadly, he never got to retake it.

Ain't gonna mention mine.

I think it's well-established in Doctor Who fandom that serious Doctor Who fans are obviously among the smartest of the smart. So you've got that happening, whatever you're concealing.

Me, I just began a sentence with "so", so we know I'm not as bright as I could be. I could waffle and say, based on what you wrote, that I was in the middle of a nervous breakdown and barely slept the night before I was tested -- so mebbe, just mebbe I scored lower than I might have. But I think I actually got extra points just for knowing Goethe wrote Faust, and I pronounced the name correctly. 119 sounds about right. Feels like it's been slipping, though, since 2014 or so.

We're way off topic. Is Poser dying? I think the Poser Community has fragmented, which is not, in itself, good for Poser. It's seemed like one of the selling points for Poser, with its various corporate owners over the years, has been the size and strength of the community. Lately it's hard to be sure there even is a solid Poser Community any more. Is it still there, in strength? Do we have the numbers? A couple of years ago, Nerd said we did, and Poser was healthy. But recently the entire Poser Team, barring Larry, was fired. The signs are worrisome.

Things like the design flaw I've been griping about and trying hard to explain clearly might hint at a change of philosophy behind the development and maintenance of Poser. In the past, utility and functionality for the user has always seemed very important to the developers. Since about the time the "phone home" validation and shutdown routine was added to the Game Dev release, it's seemed like maybe the emphasis is now more on what's good for Poser's corporate owners, rather than the program itself or the end user. That seems to be a switch in philosophy all across the software field, from where I sit, but it's troubling to see that happening to Poser.

I don't think Poser is as healthy as it was ten years ago. The trends aren't in its favor. It has more competition. Blender is stronger than it used to be, iClone and others have come along. Daz has stolen away plenty of users, as well as RDNA. Long term, it looks like home computing is moving away from the desktop paradigm of which Poser is a part, and more toward portable, cloud-based approaches. I've begun to wonder if Poser still has another ten years, or even five.

But I'm slowly devolving from Cynicalman into Stupidboy, so what do I know? Umm.

Fragmenting? I predicted it would happen years ago and got ridiculed for it. Specifically, I predicted DAZ would introduce proprietary formats which wouldn't be directly compatible with Poser.

Poser and apps like it may be changing beyond the hobbyist market anyhow, which would cut a lot of people out of the loop. Yep, desktops are dying - up to a point; I see it more as a separation of function. Desktops for work, fondleslabs and phones for play. As for cloud based, well, anything... call me a Luddite if you will but it just ain't safe, reliable or secure enough to make me jump for joy. And I still buy physical copies of music and movies.

Its a complicated topic, I wouldn't go as far as to say that Poser is dying, I would rather say that they have to be careful and that i think they should consider changing strategy.

Some things I at least would consider if I were in their shoes would be to only release one version of Poser, drop the Pro version and game versions etc. release one product at a reasonable low price.

Instead what they could do is to release Poser optimized characters, that works with the face room and could even extend it so its more like Iclone where you can shape the body as well. I know you do this through morphs etc. But I always liked the idea of the face room that you could drag around the mesh of character to shape them and so forth, think there is a lot of lost potential in it and if they ain't going to use it in the future then remove it, don't leave such thing in the program. If they could create characters with a single good rig, so content could be used for all these characters and maybe get automatic conformed within reasonable limits. Much like you can conform cloth to a character now lets say they make a character called Brenda and you can change her body and the cloth follows etc, But cloth made for her, would also fit a character called Tris and Rachel etc. Sort of like the fitting room but it just need to be more streamlined and I think they could do that if they made and sold such characters themselves. And obvious these characters would have to be high quality!!

Another thing would be to give the dynamic hair an overhaul, it would be a great selling point if it were good. Upgrade the dynamic cloth room, so you have more and better options, for instant so you could select a fabric type and save custom fabric types etc.

I think they should kill off Firefly and put all effort into Superfly and stop with trying to make everything work together, take the best solution and make it even better. Get rid of all the old materials they are a nightmare and not needed anymore.

This is Cracked dry mud....Really? who would ever make a material like that today!!

So get rid off all these materials and add PBR materials instead.

I like the comic outline renders you can do, so that should be improved as well, maybe with cell shading setting.

Create better integration with other software solutions, PoserFusion is really nice but could be improved, maybe so you could select which objects in the scene you wish to send over, make it so as you import object that you can setup how they are imported so these settings are saved each time you choose to update. Basically get Poser more integrated into the other packages a lot of people that are using these could greatly benefit from using Poser I think.

Change the unit system so it better follows other software solutions.

So at least to me I think they need to focus more on whats important for the users and what the majority is using Poser for, I mean the addition of the bullet system was a nice idea, but was it really worth it? How many people really use it, its not like the forum is filled with bullet animations. To me it seems like they try to add to many things where some are of very little interest to most people, but by doing this they loose quality both in new features that are important, but also old ones that have a lot of potential and some of which people uses a lot. For instant instead of the bullet system, why not add a particle system instead, which could be used in still shots as well or add photometric lights etc. They really need to get to terms with the saying "Kill your darlings" i think. There is much potential they just need to focus on the right things.

If you open a legacy (pre-P11) file in P11 and save it, it saves it in P11 format. Not only the rigging format has changed, but also materials, custom palettes, translations, and information about other new P11 features. To a large degree it has been done in a way where earlier versions will ignore the new features if they are not used.

The focus has always been compatibility to be able to use legacy content in the current version, not on creating content which can be used in older versions.

Yes, it would have been nice to be able to save in P10 format as well, but that same argument would have to be applied to P9 and earlier versions as well. For whatever reason (lack of development time, design restrictions or other reason) that has not been done. Maybe the new development team sees differently.

IQ test ? really ,are you impressed buy the human race ? Any way Cage the older ya get the slower ya get. once I was having a hard time n was just dehydrated. you can have a mini stroke n not know it.

Not saying you use drugs or alcohol but they age you faster.

RorrKonn posted at 10:24AM Sat, 01 April 2017 - #4301118

IQ test ? really ,are you impressed buy the human race ? Any way Cage the older ya get the slower ya get. once I was having a hard time n was just dehydrated. you can have a mini stroke n not know it.

Not saying you use drugs or alcohol but they age you faster.

Drugs and alcohol? Depends on type and amount of use. I'm not advocating recreational use of illegal substances; I must be the only guitarist in the world who doesn't indulge. Nor do I smoke, and my alcohol consumption is so low it wouldn't get a mouse arrested for DUI.

Some psychoactive substances may have beneficial effects, when used with caution. Nicotine, for example, produces very mild euphoria and also helps speed up the effect of neurotransmitters. It may also be beneficial to sufferers of certain neurological conditions and it's well known as a painkiller. Alcohol, when used in moderation has a definite and well documented beneficial effect. For sufferers of chronic pain, ganja seems to be the weapon of choice. Even here in stuffy old England it's becoming recognized as a valuable substance for medicinal use.

That said, if you're shovelling bucketfuls of Bolivian Marching Powder up yer beak and downing a dozen bottles of Jack every day, it'll probably not do you much good. YMMV.

Cage posted at 12:47PM Sat, 01 April 2017 - #4300926

raven posted at 1:07PM Thu, 30 March 2017 - #4300901

I took this part of his quote (bolded by me):

"One of the updates for Poser 11 makes destructive changes to cr2 files which are processed through P11. That subdividing morph thing changes all the valueParms in Body to targetGeoms, to facilitate the storage of deltas for the different morph resolutions."

to imply he is using one of the latest features, as in his post about different morph resolutions, which I took to be subdivision level morphs, which are only P11 and P11Pro. You can also only create them in Poser11Pro (and they are also read by P11 ) so again implying a latest feature. Perhaps in order to utilise that feature the .cr2 needs to be written differently. But as I said, if that's the case, leave the original for pre P11 versions and there's no problem. If I was wrong fair enough.

That's just me, being unclear. Sorry. The changes introduced to P11 to support subdividing morphs affect every cr2 or pz3 passed through the software, whether that user activates subdividing morphs or not. We weren't warned about this, but it affects everyone and everything. I find that objectionable, but it may be one of those YMMV things.

If this is going to be implemented and not fixed, the least they could do is give a compatibility warning upon saving a file in P11. All the software that I use that has incompatible version releases does this. Though being able to save the file in a previous format that strips out the current tech that's causing the issue would be nice for those who need it.

wimvdb posted at 12:21PM Sat, 01 April 2017 - #4301111

If you open a legacy (pre-P11) file in P11 and save it, it saves it in P11 format. Not only the rigging format has changed, but also materials, custom palettes, translations, and information about other new P11 features. To a large degree it has been done in a way where earlier versions will ignore the new features if they are not used.

The focus has always been compatibility to be able to use legacy content in the current version, not on creating content which can be used in older versions.

Yes, it would have been nice to be able to save in P10 format as well, but that same argument would have to be applied to P9 and earlier versions as well. For whatever reason (lack of development time, design restrictions or other reason) that has not been done. Maybe the new development team sees differently.

Poser typically tolerates files saved out of later versions, and just ignores any lines in the file it doesn't recognize. In this case, lines older versions do recognize have been changed to other lines they recognize. So older Posers load the changes, but the changes break certain functionality relating to FBMs. As such, this isn't quite business as usual in an update. A fundamental change to the cr2 format has been made, which complicates the creation of new content in Poser 11. Content creators should be aware of this, and if the Poser Team is going to keep this feature then we need to develop workarounds.

@RorrKonn & SamTherapy: I drink a lot of coffee and smoke a tobacco pipe somewhat excessively (without inhaling), which is the limit of wildness in my lifestyle. I don't take any drugs beyond aspirin, and I rarely drink any alcohol. I suspect any cognitive decline on my part is due to stress levels and sleep patterns. Or, y'know. I might have a developing condition of some sort. There's no known history of dementia or Alzheimer's in my family. I suspect it's down to stress. I have terrible stress management skills.

Hi Cage.

The last paragraph of the Poser 11 readme and subsequent Update Readmes have the following statement.

Known Issues

• Figure Design: As of 11.0.0, BODY level Full Body value parms will be converted to TargetParms to be potential containers for subdivision-level morphs.

So it's definitely an intentional change.

adzan posted at 3:26PM Sat, 01 April 2017 - #4301195

Hi Cage.

The last paragraph of the Poser 11 readme and subsequent Update Readmes have the following statement.

Known Issues

• Figure Design: As of 11.0.0, BODY level Full Body value parms will be converted to TargetParms to be potential containers for subdivision-level morphs.

So it's definitely an intentional change.

Absolutely. They began adding that line after I reported that the design change caused problems with older versions. The way they've been presenting that in the update documentation has sort of suggested that they know about the problem and might address it in the future, but they haven't yet -- so don't report this as a bug! We know about it, we did it on purpose. Like that.

I don't think they're going to change it, at this point, so Poser content developers and users need to know what the problem is and how to address it if they run into it.

Hey all, long time no see!

Is Poser dead?

I hope not. I'm considering Poser Pro as I write this after many years away from 3D. Poser looks to have evolved since Poser 3, and yes, that does make me feel rather old!

This site has changed somewhat. I recall a very different design back in the early Bryce, Carrara, and Poser days. Certainly, the forum appears a lot quieter than back then, but I don't recall there was anything like the competition there is now.

Marc

How do, MSconti. I don't remember you from way back but if you haven't been around since P3, that's no real surprise. I started here when P4 Pro Pack was the weapon of choice.

Thing is, even if Poser was to roll over and die this very second, there's still a ton of stuff out there for it and that stuff, unlike milk, never goes rotten. And I guess there'll still be some of us making stuff for Poser for a considerable time, too. If you like Daleks and music gear, I'm yer man.

At the moment, people are still getting to grips with Superfly (I always think of Blaxploitation movies when I hear/read that name) and all the other new stuff, so there's still life in the beast yet.

As for the forum being quiet, well I have my own ideas about that; I'd say it's partly related to the competition and partly, shall we be diplomatic and say "Other Factors"?

Cage .I drive every one else in insane with my layed back attitude. There's a old saying.

" Why take life so seriously .No one gets out a live "

I never stress over anything ,cause what ever you was worried about this day a year ago you can't even remember .so why worry about to day when your forget about it ?

Good luck with ya stress .

MSconti posted at 8:35PM Sat, 01 April 2017 - #4301198

Hey all, long time no see!

Is Poser dead?

I hope not. I'm considering Poser Pro as I write this after many years away from 3D. Poser looks to have evolved since Poser 3, and yes, that does make me feel rather old!

This site has changed somewhat. I recall a very different design back in the early Bryce, Carrara, and Poser days. Certainly, the forum appears a lot quieter than back then, but I don't recall there was anything like the competition there is now.

Marc

Wellcome back. 20 years every thing has changed. the 1998 king of 3D Softimage is dead .Max owns Softimage and Maya. All the main apps use zBrush now. DAZ left Poser. but 99% of 1998 Poser users are using app's like Max zBrush now. Caligari sold TrueSpace to Microsoft n Microsoft trashed it so it's dead to but you can still download it. Posers still alive n still good for 100,000 miles :)

MSconti posted at 7:35PM Sat, 01 April 2017 - #4301198

Is Poser dead?

I hope not. I'm considering Poser Pro as I write this after many years away from 3D. Poser looks to have evolved since Poser 3...

Poser, the everlasting Phoenix - always "dying", only to be reborn again and again.

MetaCreation's Poser died after P3.

Curious Labs rebirthed it with P4 and ProPack. Then it "died" again after P5.

eFrontier rebirthed it as P6, then P7 & Poser Pro. Then Poser "died" again.

SmithMicro rebirthed it as P8 & Poser Pro 2010. Currently, we're on P11 & P11Pro.

"The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated." ~ Mark Twain

Yes, Poser has developed quite a bit from P3's "plastic helmet hair", etc. Poser now is multi-threaded, exploiting all processor cores for rendering. It's 64bit capable, so you can use more RAM and put together huge, complex scenes. The Firefly renderer is well advanced beyond the P4 renderer, and as of P11/P11Pro you also have the Superfly raytracer physics-based renderer. You have dynamic cloth, which will drape more realistically than conforming clothing. If you get the Pro version, you'll have Queue Manager, which can distribute animations or batch render jobs (albeit whole frames only) out across a network, if you have extra computers around.

Poser may be a bit of an enigma, but it is currently in a temporary stasis has a good future as long as we don't pigeon hole it to what we think it should be. It is not DS and does not have the same goals. As I see it. There is plenty to come, I believe that. I'm a loyalist.

Boni posted at 8:17PM Sat, 01 April 2017 - #4301233

Poser may be a bit of an enigma, but it is currently in a temporary stasis has a good future as long as we don't pigeon hole it to what we think it should be. It is not DS and does not have the same goals. As I see it. There is plenty to come, I believe that. I'm a loyalist.

See? This is when a "LIKE" button would come in handy! While it's normally more fun to be in the resistance, I'm a Poser Loyalist too!

quietrob posted at 10:28PM Sat, 01 April 2017 - #4301245

...it's normally more fun to be in the resistance...

Poser users are the resistance, defying assimilation.

I have a question. Let's suppose that Poser does get killed off and dies an honorable death. What do you think that would mean for DAZ and Studio? Like, would Studio still be free or would it be for sale again?

EClark1849 posted at 1:46AM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301249

I have a question. Let's suppose that Poser does get killed off and dies an honorable death. What do you think that would mean for DAZ and Studio? Like, would Studio still be free or would it be for sale again?

DS originally sold for $400.00 n then some. DAZ has some odd plugin ways. The dynamic thing I haven't looked in to but think it cost a lot to make them.

Anyways Poser does not effect DAZ at all in anyway Dead or Alive.

and DAZ does not effect Poser at all in anyway Dead or Alive. other then we make it matter.

DAZ was a Poser vender that's all DAZ ever was to Poser. HiveWire3D Step in n took DAZ Vender spot with Dawn.

Being DAZ split in 2 to HW3D n DAZ .HW3D n Dawn is still DAZ

RorrKonn posted at 1:51AM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301250

EClark1849 posted at 1:46AM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301249

I have a question. Let's suppose that Poser does get killed off and dies an honorable death. What do you think that would mean for DAZ and Studio? Like, would Studio still be free or would it be for sale again?

DS originally sold for $400.00 n then some. DAZ has some odd plugin ways. The dynamic thing I haven't looked in to but think it cost a lot to make them.

Anyways Poser does not effect DAZ at all in anyway Dead or Alive.

and DAZ does not effect Poser at all in anyway Dead or Alive. other then we make it matter.

DAZ was a Poser vender that's all DAZ ever was to Poser. HiveWire3D Step in n took DAZ Vender spot with Dawn.

Being DAZ split in 2 to HW3D n DAZ .HW3D n Dawn is still DAZ

I have to disagree. Everyone looks at DAZ and thinks that Genesis is the main reason that Studio use has pulled ahead of Poser, but don't forget that since Studio is free it's a lot like how AOL used to do with CompuServe. Those AOL disks were EVERYWHERE. On cereal boxes, in magazines, at checkout counters, in your mail. Eventually, you tried it and a lot of it stuck.

speaking for myself: I used to be anti DAZ. Weird UI. All the nice things are somewhere hidden in DAZStudio. To much work, to unhide the tools. I was used to Poser, always loved the morph brush. To bad, that I never got to work nice hair simulations. Hairs keep poking through figures bodies. Worst of it all. Poser figures joint bendings allways used to look more or less aweful. Now, that DAZ introduced G3 figures and IRAY with its shader suport made it for me. Made me switch easiley. Bye, bye Poser. If Poser wants to survive, make sure figure-joints are bending naturley. The figures are a key feature. If figures look bad, Poser won't survive. --- Superfly is a step into the right direction, but allways have the SF shaders with Poser products. How many SF shader presets do we have in freestuff and market place here? Not many, right? bummer Poser might not die, but the situation is critical. Yup: "dime the boat."

-Timberwolf- posted at 5:22AM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301261

speaking for myself: I used to be anti DAZ. Weird UI. All the nice things are somewhere hidden in DAZStudio. To much work, to unhide the tools. I was used to Poser, always loved the morph brush. To bad, that I never got to work nice hair simulations. Hairs keep poking through figures bodies. Worst of it all. Poser figures joint bendings allways used to look more or less aweful. Now, that DAZ introduced G3 figures and IRAY with its shader suport made it for me. Made me switch easiley. Bye, bye Poser. If Poser wants to survive, make sure figure-joints are bending naturley. The figures are a key feature. If figures look bad, Poser won't survive. --- Superfly is a step into the right direction, but allways have the SF shaders with Poser products. How many SF shader presets do we have in freestuff and market place here? Not many, right? bummer Poser might not die, but the situation is critical. Yup: "dime the boat."

I just don't think so. I agree with you that there are some things in DS that I like. Mainly the lighting and the sliders and auto-fit.

Boni posted at 12:48PM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301233

Poser may be a bit of an enigma, but it is currently in a temporary stasis has a good future as long as we don't pigeon hole it to what we think it should be. It is not DS and does not have the same goals. As I see it. There is plenty to come, I believe that. I'm a loyalist.

Count me in that list of Poser loyalists. I intend to continue using it until something stops me but not having another update won't be the end. I do hope it survives and continues to improve, even if it improves in ways that are not relevant to me.

Loyalty, to me, is a somewhat elastic concept.

For example, loyalty to an employer only ever went as far as their loyalty to me. So, not very far at all.

In relationships, I tend to be more forgiving but there are limits. Sometimes very large limits.

With an application, it would depend on what I wanted to do and how easily I could accomplish that. If I found something I could use easily, worked better (for me) and didn't cost the earth, then that's what I'd use. With the proviso that I wouldn't have to shell out a fortune on replacing content, that is. If it ever got to the point that the software was getting in the way too much and I could do it in something else, it'd be game over for the one I was currently using.

SamTherapy posted at 3:35PM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301273

Loyalty, to me, is a somewhat elastic concept.

For example, loyalty to an employer only ever went as far as their loyalty to me. So, not very far at all.

In relationships, I tend to be more forgiving but there are limits. Sometimes very large limits.

With an application, it would depend on what I wanted to do and how easily I could accomplish that. If I found something I could use easily, worked better (for me) and didn't cost the earth, then that's what I'd use. With the proviso that I wouldn't have to shell out a fortune on replacing content, that is. If it ever got to the point that the software was getting in the way too much and I could do it in something else, it'd be game over for the one I was currently using.

I understand what you are saying and I don't think I am very much different. Perhaps loyalist is the wrong word particularly as I did not upgrade to Poser 11 for a variety of reasons. The point I was making really is that I would still like to see Poser prosper and that I fully intend using Poser for some years to come, the only question really is what version I will continue to use.

How do, Sam!

Actually, I have Poser 5 Professional Edition as well, but I never got in to it. It changed a fair bit compared to Poser 3 and I lost interest in it. I recall it got a fancy new hair and cloth room which looked promising, but none of it worked for me. That said, I didn't have a very powerful computer back then, so using the new hair and cloth appeared to be a routine of struggle and crash, struggle and crash. So I tried DAZ Studio, but DAZ studio never had the walk designer Poser has, not even during Poser 5 times. In the end I decided to ditch my hopes of working with figures for a while, and went back to Bryce.

Years later, I've found out DAZ Studio still doesn't have a walk designer. Luckily Poser does, but it appears to be the same one it had back in Poser 5, using that old 'wire-bones' preview (if the YouTube videos I've been watching are anything to go by). The Poser timeline appears to be the same as in Poser 5 as well, very strange, so I hope that's not the case.

RorrKonn, I remember trueSpace. They used to market it to me like crazy through email. Sounds like Microsoft swallowed it up then. Maybe that's why the marketing emails stopped coming!

Timberwolf. I remember those plastic hairstyles, but I do like the female figure they used back then, called Posette. I thought she was great and still do! And funny enough, I still see her used in renderings and animations on Deviant Art, YouTube etc, even today. Maybe her long legs keep on attracting the male artists?

Well, who knows, but the lady does have lovely long legs!

@hornet3d - I can dig it. I don't have any emotional investment in Poser, other than - I guess - I actually enjoy creating content for it. Free or paid, it's still something of a thrill to see my stuff sitting in a Runtime, rendering in a scene, somewhere in a finished pic. That, however, doesn't extend to my excluding the possibility there's something out there better able to do the job than Poser. If, however, Poser continues to evolve while still being relatively easy to use, I'll be happy. For the record, I'm still using Poser Pro 2012. Can't yet afford to upgrade.

@ MSconti - Poser 5 was a quirky, unreliable beast, so no real surprises you had problems with it.

I've never done any Poser animation so the toolset isn't something I ever took notice of. My animation experience is strictly Old School; either hand drawn cel, or multiple frame sprites for pre-3d games, with the latter made in DPaint for the Amiga. Even used the PC version of DPaint for a while. Like I said, Old School.

Only my wife has my loyalty. In general I am an illoyal person and I am proud of it. I go where the grass is most green. It doesn't make any sense to me to be loyal to a software.

Hey Sam, Amiga was once the love of my life too

Amiga 500, then 500+, then 1200.

Seachnasaigh, my reply above to Timberwolf, was actually meant for you. A mistake on my part, but I don't see an edit button!

MSconti posted at 5:03PM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301297

Hey Sam, Amiga was once the love of my life too

Amiga 500, then 500+, then 1200.

Same here. The 500+ had a ROM switcher for compatibility with old software, plus a RAM expansion. The 1200 was the HD version, also with maximum RAM. Sadly, all gone now. Wish I'd held on to them.

EClark1849 posted at 1:19PM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301255

RorrKonn posted at 1:51AM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301250

EClark1849 posted at 1:46AM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301249

I have a question. Let's suppose that Poser does get killed off and dies an honorable death. What do you think that would mean for DAZ and Studio? Like, would Studio still be free or would it be for sale again?

DS originally sold for $400.00 n then some. DAZ has some odd plugin ways. The dynamic thing I haven't looked in to but think it cost a lot to make them.

Anyways Poser does not effect DAZ at all in anyway Dead or Alive.

and DAZ does not effect Poser at all in anyway Dead or Alive. other then we make it matter.

DAZ was a Poser vender that's all DAZ ever was to Poser. HiveWire3D Step in n took DAZ Vender spot with Dawn.

Being DAZ split in 2 to HW3D n DAZ .HW3D n Dawn is still DAZ

I have to disagree. Everyone looks at DAZ and thinks that Genesis is the main reason that Studio use has pulled ahead of Poser, but don't forget that since Studio is free it's a lot like how AOL used to do with CompuServe. Those AOL disks were EVERYWHERE. On cereal boxes, in magazines, at checkout counters, in your mail. Eventually, you tried it and a lot of it stuck.

it's fine ,it's fine you disagree and I do get your point but Blenders free ,Houdini's $200 a year but hasn't effected the other main 3D app's Max ,Maya $1470.00 a Year .Mudbox is $10 a month ,zBrush is still $800.00.DAZ gives there $400.00+ app away for free cause no one would buy it.

For some unknown reason I never get ,Where always just comparing Poser vs DAZ. With out MAX,zBrush,Photoshop or the likes ,there is no Poser or DAZ.

DAZ and Poser could both die n the 3D universe wouldn't care or even notice.

If C4D,Mudbox,PaintShop or the likes Died the 3D universe would care and notice.It would be the Death of 3D.and we'd half to go back the crayola crayons.

MSconti If I was looking to make animations .I'd check out Reallusions. I wouldn't look to use Poser or DAZ There good for Stills but not animation. You could rerig Poser or DAZ characters in other app's like Maya for animations if ya wanted.

RorrKonn posted at 2:54PM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301306

EClark1849 posted at 1:19PM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301255

RorrKonn posted at 1:51AM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301250

EClark1849 posted at 1:46AM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301249

I have a question. Let's suppose that Poser does get killed off and dies an honorable death. What do you think that would mean for DAZ and Studio? Like, would Studio still be free or would it be for sale again?

DS originally sold for $400.00 n then some. DAZ has some odd plugin ways. The dynamic thing I haven't looked in to but think it cost a lot to make them.

Anyways Poser does not effect DAZ at all in anyway Dead or Alive.

and DAZ does not effect Poser at all in anyway Dead or Alive. other then we make it matter.

DAZ was a Poser vender that's all DAZ ever was to Poser. HiveWire3D Step in n took DAZ Vender spot with Dawn.

Being DAZ split in 2 to HW3D n DAZ .HW3D n Dawn is still DAZ

I have to disagree. Everyone looks at DAZ and thinks that Genesis is the main reason that Studio use has pulled ahead of Poser, but don't forget that since Studio is free it's a lot like how AOL used to do with CompuServe. Those AOL disks were EVERYWHERE. On cereal boxes, in magazines, at checkout counters, in your mail. Eventually, you tried it and a lot of it stuck.

it's fine ,it's fine you disagree and I do get your point but Blenders free ,Houdini's $200 a year but hasn't effected the other main 3D app's Max ,Maya $1470.00 a Year .Mudbox is $10 a month ,zBrush is still $800.00.DAZ gives there $400.00+ app away for free cause no one would buy it.

For some unknown reason I never get ,Where always just comparing Poser vs DAZ. With out MAX,zBrush,Photoshop or the likes ,there is no Poser or DAZ.

DAZ and Poser could both die n the 3D universe wouldn't care or even notice.

If C4D,Mudbox,PaintShop or the likes Died the 3D universe would care and notice.It would be the Death of 3D.and we'd half to go back the crayola crayons.

Oh, I already know that if Poser died tomorrow, Blender would be my next app of choice.

After I get some lights ,I'm fixing to send to Blender for mapping. Then make it compatible for all the App's .If where still making stuff for Poser apparently it's not dead ;)

MSconti posted at 11:24PM Sun, 02 April 2017 - #4301286

I remember those plastic hairstyles, but I do like the female figure they used back then, called Posette. I thought she was great and still do! And funny enough, I still see her used in renderings and animations on Deviant Art, YouTube etc, even today. Maybe her long legs keep on attracting the male artists?

Well, who knows, but the lady does have lovely long legs!

I still use Posette - here she's TinkerBell...

Sam, yeah, me too. But at least it's still very much alive thanks to the web. I know they continue to release new hardware for the Amiga and C64 even today!

RorrKonn, yes, I checked the Reallusion website and am hoping for a reply. iClone is tempting me away from getting back into Poser or DAZ Studio due to it's far better animation tools. Thing is, I prefer the Poser interface much more. I've been searching here, DAZ, and Reallusion for answers to questions I have. There doesn't appear to be any better solution then the situation back when I gave-up on this stuff. iClone is a leader in animation it seems, which would explain it's popularity. But the renderer looks like a sick joke. Even the new version they're showing looks substandard. For me Poser has the best interface and renderer options, but like DAZ Studio, Poser appears to be locked in suspended animation since the year 2000 regards the animation toolset. I can't even try Poser, they want my card details just to try it. I won't do that. I'll just have to do a bit more research before I decide what to go for.

Does anyone have an idea of a release date for Poser 12, and have there been any indication at animation improvements?

Ultimately, it looks like this is a toss-up between Poser and Blender, somewhat like EClark1849 I suppose. I don't know what caused the halt in progress, but back in the day, we used to play with Bryce, Carrara, and Poser and fantasize how cool it would be in the future when our computers would be fast enough to animate. That time is now, surely. We can render the sort of stuff we were rendering back then, in just a fraction of a second these days. Only we can't do that, because while the computers have caught up in speed, the programs it seems, have been sitting around, getting fat, instead of getting some excercise through animation.

Seachnasaigh, that's a very magical looking scene, and it's great to see Posette!

MSconti posted at 12:17PM Mon, 03 April 2017 - #4301359

Sam, yeah, me too. But at least it's still very much alive thanks to the web. I know they continue to release new hardware for the Amiga and C64 even today!

RorrKonn, yes, I checked the Reallusion website and am hoping for a reply. iClone is tempting me away from getting back into Poser or DAZ Studio due to it's far better animation tools. Thing is, I prefer the Poser interface much more. I've been searching here, DAZ, and Reallusion for answers to questions I have. There doesn't appear to be any better solution then the situation back when I gave-up on this stuff. iClone is a leader in animation it seems, which would explain it's popularity. But the renderer looks like a sick joke. Even the new version they're showing looks substandard. For me Poser has the best interface and renderer options, but like DAZ Studio, Poser appears to be locked in suspended animation since the year 2000 regards the animation toolset. I can't even try Poser, they want my card details just to try it. I won't do that. I'll just have to do a bit more research before I decide what to go for.

Does anyone have an idea of a release date for Poser 12, and have there been any indication at animation improvements?

Ultimately, it looks like this is a toss-up between Poser and Blender, somewhat like EClark1849 I suppose. I don't know what caused the halt in progress, but back in the day, we used to play with Bryce, Carrara, and Poser and fantasize how cool it would be in the future when our computers would be fast enough to animate. That time is now, surely. We can render the sort of stuff we were rendering back then, in just a fraction of a second these days. Only we can't do that, because while the computers have caught up in speed, the programs it seems, have been sitting around, getting fat, instead of getting some excercise through animation.

Seachnasaigh, that's a very magical looking scene, and it's great to see Posette!

Without wanting to ruffle any feathers, with the recent changes at Smith Micro, I think it is a fairly solid bet that Poser 12 will not be around any time soon.

Without wanting to ruffle any feathers, with the recent changes at Smith Micro, I think it is a fairly solid bet that Poser 12 will not be around any time soon.

What news are you referring to, just curious?

3D-Mobster posted at 12:56PM Mon, 03 April 2017 - #4301363

Without wanting to ruffle any feathers, with the recent changes at Smith Micro, I think it is a fairly solid bet that Poser 12 will not be around any time soon.

What news are you referring to, just curious?

The Poser development team was recently let go and SM are doing a major re-shuffle. They have stated however they are still committed to Poser. I think changes like this will therefore delay any new version of Poser as it seems understandable that the new team will need to get up to speed. That said I am just voicing my personal view based on the information to hand.

The Poser development team was recently let go and SM are doing a major re-shuffle. They have stated however they are still committed to Poser. I think changes like this will therefore delay any new version of Poser as it seems understandable that the new team will need to get up to speed. That said I am just voicing my personal view based on the information to hand.

Guess that can be both a good or bad thing, it might be good to get some fresh eyes and ideas involved to stir the soup so to speak :D but yeah some knowledge might be lost as well i guess. But think it depends a lot on what background those new developers have as stated earlier, I think programs like Poser have a lot of potential, if you look at Iclone, Daz etc. Have looked at a lot of videos of people using 3D to make comic books, art and what not, even though these people are very skilled at drawing etc, the time and benefits from using 3D in there workflow is so beneficial, always get very inspired looking at these videos.

Hornet3D, thank you, although I'm not sure whether I'm pleased to hear that or not.

I hope Poser is continued. I do love Poser despite it's obvious animation limitations right now. I wonder if the new Smith Micro developers will read this forum? I hope they do, and if they see this, I beg of you, please do something about the animation toolset in Poser. Comparing Poser to iClone, Poser wins in all respects apart from animation. iClone appears to be growing substantially, while Poser appears to be dying if the general consensus is anything to go by. I wonder why? The only thing iClone has over Poser is it's animation toolset, so maybe it's time to smell the roses and put Poser on the animation map, where surely should be!

Poser, THE figure animation tool, right?

Make it so, then take my money!

MSconti posted at 3:53PM Mon, 03 April 2017 - #4301379

Hornet3D, thank you, although I'm not sure whether I'm pleased to hear that or not.

I hope Poser is continued. I do love Poser despite it's obvious animation limitations right now. I wonder if the new Smith Micro developers will read this forum? I hope they do, and if they see this, I beg of you, please do something about the animation toolset in Poser. Comparing Poser to iClone, Poser wins in all respects apart from animation. iClone appears to be growing substantially, while Poser appears to be dying if the general consensus is anything to go by. I wonder why? The only thing iClone has over Poser is it's animation toolset, so maybe it's time to smell the roses and put Poser on the animation map, where surely should be!

Poser, THE figure animation tool, right?

Make it so, then take my money!

Im not really sure what you mean with Poser winning in all aspects apart from animation, did you see this presentation video?

Iclone 6 new features

3D-Mobster posted at 9:06AM Mon, 03 April 2017 - #4301382

MSconti posted at 3:53PM Mon, 03 April 2017 - #4301379

Hornet3D, thank you, although I'm not sure whether I'm pleased to hear that or not.

I hope Poser is continued. I do love Poser despite it's obvious animation limitations right now. I wonder if the new Smith Micro developers will read this forum? I hope they do, and if they see this, I beg of you, please do something about the animation toolset in Poser. Comparing Poser to iClone, Poser wins in all respects apart from animation. iClone appears to be growing substantially, while Poser appears to be dying if the general consensus is anything to go by. I wonder why? The only thing iClone has over Poser is it's animation toolset, so maybe it's time to smell the roses and put Poser on the animation map, where surely should be!

Poser, THE figure animation tool, right?

Make it so, then take my money!

Im not really sure what you mean with Poser winning in all aspects apart from animation, did you see this presentation video?

Iclone 6 new features

..or this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDQIxCVcHyM The free Character creator that comes with Iclone 6 has some cool features. sure, those characters are not up to V4, M4 level but they are certainly better than "pauline" and her MIA Male partner "paul"

@MSconti The reality,as I see it, is this: the overwhelming majority of poser users are still image render artists Much Like the Daz studio user base. anyone who is serious about Character animation is already using Iclone or Motionbuilder.(I use Iclone)

If poser is perceived to be "Dying" it is because that still render majority are still basicaly stuck using an 11 year old figure set (Daz V4/M4)

We animators have long since moved on. New & improved animation tools will not revive interest in poser at this point There needs to be New native poser figures that are attractive enough that the user base will largely embrace them and easy to use content dev tools to get content creators excited about developing for poser again.

Looking at the current state of things, I dont really see this happening.

3D-Mobster posted at 3:24PM Mon, 03 April 2017 - #4301372

The Poser development team was recently let go and SM are doing a major re-shuffle. They have stated however they are still committed to Poser. I think changes like this will therefore delay any new version of Poser as it seems understandable that the new team will need to get up to speed. That said I am just voicing my personal view based on the information to hand.

Guess that can be both a good or bad thing, it might be good to get some fresh eyes and ideas involved to stir the soup so to speak :D but yeah some knowledge might be lost as well i guess. But think it depends a lot on what background those new developers have as stated earlier, I think programs like Poser have a lot of potential, if you look at Iclone, Daz etc. Have looked at a lot of videos of people using 3D to make comic books, art and what not, even though these people are very skilled at drawing etc, the time and benefits from using 3D in there workflow is so beneficial, always get very inspired looking at these videos.

I think you are right, it could be a good or a bad thing, only time will tell. At the moment I think the only conclusion that can be drawn is the normal upgrade cycle could be delayed somewhat. The only reason I mentioned it is that I wanted to avoid someone not taking up a good sale on Poser 11 because they felt Poser 12 might be just around the corner.

It is probably fair to say that the biggest number of users of Poser use it for stills, but that is just a belief and I don't see any way of proving it. The idea that they are all still using V4/M4 is a little less clear. A lot of the V4 users at least moved to V4WM (weight mapped) while others starting using Genesis from Daz, while they could which I think was Genesis 1 and 2 but I could be wrong, after that it gets a little more difficult. Some, me included, moved on to use Dawn and Dusk from Hivewire3d which was easier to use than Genesis at that point. With the inclusion of the fitting room in the last few Pro versions of Poser means that content made with one figure in mind is fairly easily adapted for another, so figures like Dawn can be used with all the V4 content that many users already had.

wolf359 posted at 4:45PM Mon, 03 April 2017 - #4301386

@MSconti The reality,as I see it, is this: the overwhelming majority of poser users are still image render artists Much Like the Daz studio user base. anyone who is serious about Character animation is already using Iclone or Motionbuilder.(I use Iclone)

If poser is perceived to be "Dying" it is because that still render majority are still basicaly stuck using an 11 year old figure set (Daz V4/M4)

We animators have long since moved on. New & improved animation tools will not revive interest in poser at this point There needs to be New native poser figures that are attractive enough that the user base will largely embrace them and easy to use content dev tools to get content creators excited about developing for poser again.

Looking at the current state of things, I dont really see this happening.

I do agree that most people does still images, but honestly i think the majority of 3D users regardless of software, except those obviously aimed towards animations, does still images. Making animations is really a lot of work compared to just doing a still image. So I would not see that is being Posers animation tools fault, but simply that the majority of people like making stills rather than animations and I don't think that Poser needs to be especially strong in animation, because there are tools out there specifically designed for that, and people that are really into animations and work with it a lot, would be disappointed by Posers or Daz3D tools anyway, they at least to me are just not the first pick when it comes to that, from my own experience they are fine for simple animations etc. But you quickly run into limits, so IClone would probably be a good alternative.

Regarding figures I have to disagree as well, I don't find the IClone character to be particular good, they do a good job as base characters, what i really like and as i mentioned earlier is the way you can modify them, sort of like the face room in Poser, which in my opinion was a great idea and should be extended. Furthermore I don't really think it have anything to do with M4/V4 even though they might be old characters, they are still exceptionally good, both in details and speed.

If you look at this video, its a long one but if everything worked out it should start at the correct time:

Characters

If you look at the variety, it at least to me can't be blamed on the character themselves, they are very well made characters. The content creators might not make the variety needed, but its not the "characters" fault as I see it.

hornet3d posted at 10:48AM Mon, 03 April 2017 - #4301365

3D-Mobster posted at 12:56PM Mon, 03 April 2017 - #4301363

Without wanting to ruffle any feathers, with the recent changes at Smith Micro, I think it is a fairly solid bet that Poser 12 will not be around any time soon.

What news are you referring to, just curious?

The Poser development team was recently let go and SM are doing a major re-shuffle. They have stated however they are still committed to Poser. I think changes like this will therefore delay any new version of Poser as it seems understandable that the new team will need to get up to speed. That said I am just voicing my personal view based on the information to hand.

Not just the Poser team. The entire graphics division was let go in November and they're closing the west coast division building and moving operations to Portugal for lower costs in salary. That includes Poser, Moho, Stuffit, etc. Rafael Torres (who created the post on the SM forum) is the Project Manager over the entire Graphics division, not just poser, so they're needing to hire personnel for all those software products and get them up to speed, since the creators of both Moho and Poser aren't associated with SM are now in new positions elsewhere, I'm doubting much knowledge transfer took place.

Also none of this is due to anything dealing with Poser itself (before anyone turns this into a software war). The issue has always been SM corporate putting all their eggs in a mobile services basket years ago; unfortunately none of these services are necessary for smart phone users, which SM had bet against thinking they wouldn't take off. With keeping their mobile division afloat and only 2 customers paying for those services (like Sprint), the cuts they needed to make had to come from the graphics division, thus the layoffs occurred. So to see what's going on with Poser or any of the other graphics products, you really need to be paying attention to what's happening at corporate because that's going to determine what happens to the graphics division. However, the stock price for SM is under $1 again, so their priority now is preventing the company from getting delisted from NASDAQ again.

wolf359 posted at 10:10AM Mon, 03 April 2017 - #4301386

anyone who is serious about Character animation is already using Iclone or Motionbuilder.(I use Iclone)

Exactly, and that is the problem, people appear to be moving to iClone due to it's animation tools. So in order to stop this mass exodus, Poser surely needs to up it's game and cater for the animators, as does DAZ Studio. The alternative is that Poser and DAZ Studio could both ignore the glaringly obvious lack of quality animation tools, and let iClone wipe them out.

I'd rather that didn't happen because I prefer Poser and the Poser interface.

Personally, I have to say that I agree with Wolf. The ship has sailed on Poser's animation tools, although, they might be enough to get someone interested in animation for a beginner. I'm not sure Iclone is where I would be dipping my toes for the first time if I'd never tried animation before either.