Don't get me wrong I like my Mac and Poser combination. However, it seems all the new stuff for Poser is released for PC first, and then Mac second, if at all. That did not used to be the case. What has happened?

Hi, My stuff says for PC only because I use a PC and don't have access to a Mac. There is a utility that can convert. I believe it's maconverter and in the freestuff utilities section. If you can convert any of my stuff to Mac version and wish to redistribute let me know. Lourdes

Thanks Lourdes, the PC to Mac Converter is an invaluable tool, thanks to the fellow that made it! Really though, its software that I was mainly thinking of. How many versions of Vue deSpree (sp?) did they release before a Mac version was made available? (for example)

Yeah, that's true...I know I would be upset if I wanted a program and wasn't able to buy it because it wouldn't run on my system. Look at it on the bright side...they work out most of the bugs before the Mac version and you Mac users get the better version:=)

This is not an attack on Mac users. It simply makes more economic sense for software vendors to release Mac versions later, if at all, simple because the PC user base is so much bigger than the Mac user base. Although the Mac is, or was at one time, the platform of choice for art/graphic applications, most people will buy a PC because there are far more hardware and software choices available.

Guslaw is correct. I read in a business magazine a few years ago that PCs made up about 87% of the personal computers in use. Macs were 7% and the rest was divied up between misc stuff like Linux, OS/2 & Unix. If you were a software developer, which platform would you focus on?

I would hold out to see how osx catches on. Many of the big 3d companies are creating osx versions of their software and afew studios are switching over. In fact SW Episide II has scenes that were render entirely on a macs with osx using maya. And I also saw an article in a 3d mag talking about how in hollywood Linux was the big thing, osx is linux based. It may take a while but macs could be the 3d platform of choice. After all the greatest 3d studio Pixar is owned by Mr. Jobs.

This has been happening forever. MACs really are wonderful machines, but have enjoyed an ever shrinking market share since the introduction of Windows, with some minor ups and downs. I never advise friends or family to buy a MAC, simply because of the software limitations they would run into. It's a shame really, but a fact of life. If it's any consolation, Linux users face the same dilemma. Maybe Windows XP and the draconian Microsoft EULA will turn things around, but I doubt it. jon

"In fact SW Episide II has scenes that were render entirely on a macs with osx using maya." Generally speaking this sort of thing is not a good reasont o pick a platform. it might be a reasont o chose Mya, but not a compelling one to thinkt hat the Mac platform had an advantage. Math is math is math :) Seriously - we have a mixed environment here and at soem of the studios we work with and there is no compelling reaosn to go with the Macs, though OSX does give new life to older Mac hardware. For any given amoutn of money you will be able to get a OC that is as fast or faster with more RAM and HD, and you have access to a huge program library. Besides, XP kicks ass :) So if you have a mac now, stick with it. But if you were buying new hardware I'd say switch.

Well, hard choice, but probaly yes, unless you had some compelling reason for staying with a Mac, like also doing DTP stuff (where a Mac is far superior). While I've never had any problems using PC Poser stuff on my Mac there is a lot of stuff I do that is a major problem, just hand editing a CR2 in simpletext means you have to run it through Mac Converter twice (or once if you use Word), PCs can just edit on the fly while in Poser. Also, my Mac was supplied by where I work, but bottom line is a 500 Mhz Pentium III is about twice as fast in Poser as a 400 Mhz G3 or G4, and cost roughly half as much. Hard to argue with that, and I really don't think System 10 will improve on the situation at all, other than less crashing. I'm the main support guy for Macs where I work, and while I love 'em, anybody buying a new high-end Mac for anything else than DTP or teaching DTP is a fool. The low-end Macs are fine, as long as you just want to do low-end stuff (like web surfing or word processing) with the Mac's superior interface, but for Poser (which is a high-end application, even if it doesn't cost $3000) they don't fly.

I say use the Mac. One thing that is very off in ther percentages is that a huge percent of Mac users are somehow graphically oriented while only a smaller percentage of the larger PC market is for graphics. That is a fact. Never had a problem with my Mac running anything and I feel that if we cave and get a PC it just sets it up for a bigger percentage of PC's out there so that those programs will come to the Mac even later. Sad but true. I mean PC's are good machines I guess but I can't stand them. They aren't for me. Not saying everyone shuld switch to Mac but I jsut feel that it isn't good to switch to PC.

Well I found the perfect solution. I have both. I invested the big money into my Macs (yes that's Mac with an "s"). But with the market putting out so much more on the PC platform, and most of my clients were on PCs, I had to go out and purchase a PC. For one, it was fairly inexpensive in the greater scheme of things, and I had the money at the time. So I have the best of both worlds. Now I wouldn't even try to sell a MAC to a PCer, but I would encourage a MAC owner to get a PC. Of course if it's possible (money wise). And before I get replys stating that "Who has that kind of money!?" I have to say, I'm on low fixed income from Social Security and have very little money, but I scrimp and save to get what I need. I also have a few extra jobs that when I do, all that money goes to computer equipment and software. I know many of you can't afford to have both, but if you can it's well worth it, so you can do what you can on both platforms. James PS: I still will never be able to afford Maya, LightWave or 3D MAX.

Just got my latest copy of PC Mall and Mac Mall. My problem with buying a Mac too is that often the software isn't dual purposed and then you are out the price of software also. And.. I can buy almost 2 PCs for the cost of a comparable Mac. I build my own systems and have a dual 1GHz Celeron system (yes they are dual processorable) that clocks out almost but not quite as fast as the dual G3 (about 4% lower on 3D benchmarks). I built the whole system with 1GB of Ram, Dual Monitor Matrox G450, 100GB of 7200 IDE HDD for <$800 US. It's a monster. They won't let you build a MAC. James LW goes on sale all the time. I got my copy of 6.5 for $495 still steep but it wasn't the $2500 list. I got mine as a competitive upgrade because I owned AfterEffects. They sell legit copies all the time with the dongel on ebay.

Well I was such a true Apple fan from the day I bought my Apple IIe that I thought I would bleed 6 colors. I have had a Mac since the day the Mac II came out and had to pay $6000 for that 16mhz machine. Then moved on to a 200Mhz Mac clone when they were available and stomping regular Macs into the ground. I never had any problems running Poser on my Mac or getting any model or texture to work. The problems I had were that there were no affordable or good modeling or graphics programs available on a Mac. So I was having to use my wife's PC to make models using Rhino3D and textures using PSP5. Then put them on a disk and go back to my Mac to render in Poser. Well soon I saw that Apple was spinning it's wheels over there, despite what Mr. Jobs was saying. The PC world was just advancing much faster than the Macs in every field. So I finally decided to make the switch and built my own 1Ghz AMD based PC. For far less than I could get a simularly outfitted 450mhz G4 Mac. I have to say I did not regret it. I have not found anything I really missed from the Mac. Well there is one thing, I wish there was a program available on PCs to make QuickTimeVR files from photos. Mike

I have both. A Mac I bought myself and a PC (A compaq) work provides. I still use my Mac the most. Why? Because if my Mac screws up (crashes, bombs, freezes, etc.) I can almost always figure out the problem and fix it myself and I have NEVER lost any files and had to do a complete reinstall. When my PC screws up, I usually can NOT figure out what is wrong, have to send it in for service which usually takes 2 weeks and everytime I have lost everything that was not backed up and had to reinstall everything (A real pain). So I still prefer Macs. And don't expect to see that change (I've had a personal Mac since 1986 and a PC from work since 1988).

I have the benefit of experience and background in the graphic arts, computer retail and personal computer fields. I remember about a decade ago I worked in Computer City (one of the biggest computer retail chains at the time). I talked extensively to salespeople who really knew their stuff. They explained how a Mac was built better, and made more sense than a PC..... I was sold, but unable to afford a new computer. Then I worked in Pricing and Availability. People would call and ask if we had certain computers, peripherals, software, etc. I had people call several times a day, day after day, asking if a particular Mac peripheral (CD ROM drive, modem, etc) had come into stock yet. I had the unfortunate duty to keep telling them the parts had not been shipped yet by Apple. And all too often we'd discover that Apple eventually abandoned a particular product, and told everyone to use the next best thing. I got really tired of Apple at that time... Never had that problem with PC's. One good thing is that so many companies make the PC Computers, and you can literally build your own from scratch. Walk into a computer super store, and find the little corner of the store that features Macintosh stuff. The go around the rest of the store, and look at the bounty available for PC. No contest.

It's true that the Mac graphics edge is not as great as it used to be. The best reasons now to stick with Macs are video and DVDs. Not only do I love my Mac's ease of use, reliability and resiliency - but I'll never again willingly do video on a PC. Just can't compare with the cost/performance of Mac video. My brother's colleagues can't believe how easy and cheap the DVD burner on his new G4 is. I have a Mac with scads of cheap memory and VirtualPC. My PC notebook only gets turned on for testing products, travel, and occasional presentations and Mimic sessions (VirtualPC won't recognize the CD for Mimic's copy protection.) I've got lots of PC experience and use them when I have to. But I don't miss that blue screen of death!

Another year, and another catchup of Pcs To Macs. This time its the speed. Hey guys, when your clock speed is carting of at whatever gig, how fast is the rest of the machine going? When Macs joined (?) the speed war their 66m machines where labled 66/33 as a disclaimer. Use your new knowledge wisely and when Macs are running 1G CPUs and burning rewritable FMDs enjoy your DVD jukebox. Soon there will be affordable practical Matter-Transmitters and I wonder which system will have them first, hmmm? (FMDs at http://www.reveo.com and http://www.c-3d.net) I do though envy the fortunate who are on their new 2G Pcs, the pc I use is not and I wonder how many others have this problem. The problem, the BIG problem is not cut down Samsung with its 64k of ram, its a certain system admin person whos seen fit to turn the volume down on the monitors capable of 16 milion colours, to six colours. Theyve also locked us out so we cant change it, all the full stops look like TelleTubies and my unauthorised install and test run of Thornworks Peridot looks like she appeared to me in an LSD-tailored dream. (Maybe its to stop us from getting the blue screen of death, but I make joke)

Well, I have been avoiding entering into this discussion because I have only used a mac once (very briefly, I remember looking at it trying to find the little window with all the programs in it) But I have to say that maybe it would be a good idea to keep the mac you have, at the same time save for a PC so you will have both. It is a possibility that in the future Macs will go the way of the Beta VCR (don't flame me, it could happen). My bro-in-law just bought a complete system for $400 after rebates, so it's not that bad of a bite to the pocketbook. BTW, he got a 17 in. monitor ($100), eMachine with a 900 mhz celeron, 20gig HD and 128 mb memery ($225), and a printer ($75). I know this is not the top of the line machine (better than mine though) but does show the fesability of having both.

In defense of Vue d'Esprit, it was us PC users that pushed for a Mac version. We didn't want anyone left out. Even the small percentage of Mac users (as compared to PC users) :). Laurie

I've been in the computer bis for over 12 years(mainly as a hobbyist) and have worked on PC's and Macs.. while the early PC's couldn't compare to a Mac at that time, its a majorly different story now. Apple is touting their "NEW DVD-CD-RW Drive", pc's have had them for 3 years, just in the last 18 months they have been made availible to the consumer. They're price is comparable to the Macs, in fact its cheaper. A decent ATI Card or Matrox card for the PC and a fire wire port or USB 2.0(which is now availible), will blow the snots out of a Mac. I know, I've seen it. As to Maya on the Mac, this is the first iteration(sp), Maya was orignally design to run on Unix, which OSX is based. So it wasn't much to pop it over. In my eyes the PC is more then just a workstation, its my MP3 jukebox, gaming console, web dev center, and 3D Workstation. I dare you to open 3D Studio Max, Maya and Poser at the same time on a mac. You're mac will tear itself apart. I've seen a G4 come unglued doing that. I run a 1ghz AMD T-Bird, with 512MB of DDR, 2 80GB Western Digital ATA 100 Hard Drives in a RAID0 config. Couple that with a 20" Sun Microsystem Direct Frequency(using a vga adapter) Monitor, Soundblaster Live! Platinum(Live! Drive included), Elsa Gladiac 2 Pro 64mb DDR(still a $400 card), and Klipsch Audio 4.1 THX speakers with a 400watt sub on it, I run circles around the newest G4's made. My scores in 3D Studio and a few others on the heavy bench marks are higher than that of P4 1.7's. No joke. The other thing I love about the PC, is if you know even just a little bit, you can tweak the hell out of the system, pushing up its performance bar. I find the Mac interface unintuitive, clunky, and the newer versions look like Christopher Lowell puked on them. Still, if that's what you like, go for it. I'll stay a PC Power user, with my fully mod'd case, and tweaked hard ware :)

I move that both systems be abandoned in favour of a third system and maybe a fourth fully compatible with it just to break the monopoly. Thats quite a pile BladeWolf. All in one package?

This is a troll topic thread so I don't have a problem with posting this incendiary reply. Skip over this post if think Bill Gates is God's gift to computers users. I've played the "Why don't you Mac people get some sense and join the Collective" game for decades. I don't base my computer purchases on how much the box costs; I base it upon how much value is produced by the box. On identically configured boxes, Windows will consistently consume value with (just a tiny sample of problems): it's randomly occurring incompatibilities (a common complain from my Windows-using friends) and it's inability to distinguish files by their creators (I have a dozen apps that make EPSes, why the Hell can Windows only remember ONE of them?). YMWillV but I'll be damned if I ever meet in-person a Windows user without a bloodcurdling story of some problem that either destroyed gobs of data and/or resulted in the machine being out of order for a week or more. Otaku: I'm sitting at my production Macintosh running MacOS X 100% of the time. It is not Linux based; it is FreeBSD based. Jim B: I use BBEdit to edit my text files. It avoids having to repeatedly use Mac Converter (BBEdit can be set to maintain existing Macintosh, Windows, or Unix line breaks; and it doesn't change the file type when the file is saved). There are many other fields, in addition to DTP, that a high-end Macintosh is desirable like video editing, most anything involving musical composition, Java software development (because of MacOS X), and a lot of scientific endeavors. This from professionals in these fields so don't flame me with nuh-uh's. BladeWolf: I've had 27 applications open at the same time (yes, I have that many to open). That list started with my daily workload of: Photoshop, QuarkXPress, InDesign, Illustrator, FreeHand, Eudora, Internet Explorer, iCab, and Poser. Macs are a lot hardier than you give them credit for. Now that I'm on MacOS X I'm finding that 27 will soon be a low count of my regularly open apps. I have 15 open at this moment. You are free to choose whatever platform you want. I don't give a flying monkey f**k which one you decide to use but I'm not going to change my choice become some Windows users whine that you can't do anything with a $50,000 mac because there isn't any software for it and when you can buy a 10 TeraHertz PC for only $20. On another topic: I'm declaring a bounty on the people who are still opening the SirCam attachments. Fifty dollars for every scalp you bring in. Two hundred dollars for the scalp of the spammer who is still sending it to me.

svaughn: Hi, I'm Jackson. There, you've met a Windows user with no bloodcurdling story. I've been using PCs since the 286 days and have never lost any data and have only been down to swap parts. I know we haven't met in person, but someone was going to throw a party on the east coast some day. When they do, we may meet in person. Until then, enjoy your Mac and I'll enjoy my PC...and a 90% bigger software field to choose from.

Same here... I just dislike the Mac... had to many problems with them. Only down time I've had was when I tried to tweak my computer with out knowing what the frell I was doing.. fried the HD :) The thing that ticks me off is the Mac people whining all over about how their systems are better, but have no support... you have one person to blame for that, just like we PC users have one person to blame for making idiot ware on the PC. For you Mac peeps, its Steve Jobs, for us PC'ers its Mr. Gates. I personally think he should have stayed with coding, as Win 3.11 was the stablest OS before Win2k/XP Pro. The other thing that is a problem with the macs is the programming language, though now with their using a Unix kernel you may see more compatibility out there. svaughan: Try having renders going in those 3 programs at the same time. I've seen Dual P4s die during that... I've been able to do it once. While Mac USED to be the preferred graphics power house, thanks to its arrogance in its belief, its lost about 2/3's of the market on it. The PC is so much easier to up-grade, and maintain. All ya do is pop off the case, pop the old part out and the new one in As soon as a Mac can do that, well they'll gain more respect among the IT and common users. Pc's are simple to learn, all ya have to do is get a book called PC's for dummies. I read the first iteration back in 94, learned everything I needed to then, and kept expanding. Right now, I can fix any PC system known to man kind save for SGI's and Unix systems. Anything else is a peice of cake.

Real time monitoring on my system shows: 3D Studio Max: 90mb of RAM Maya: 170mb of RAM Poser: 85MB of RAM These do not figure in Winamp, ICQ, MS Office, Security programs(Win2k Pro standard), my firewall, IE, and vairous back ground programs. This is running on a 1.0ghz OC'd to 1.33 512MB 2100DDR 2 80GB RAID 0 Elsa Gladiac 2 Pro 64MB DDR Sound Blaster LIVE!

Actually with mac you can open it up, pop out the old, pop in the new and run with it. and I find the PC to be completely unintuitive unlike someone above. that is me and all. Don't want to mess with PC's adn won't. It is simple for me. Just can't stand the things. Not saying Mac's are the end all be all but for me they are.

How long to wait for your parts to come in from Apple? All I have to do is head down to my local shop and they have what I want, and at reasonable prices... not tomention I have a wonderful selection too :)

You don't have to wait for them to come in. You can go to the local store or order them from someplace like MacMall and all. Anyplace i have lived has at least one Mac dealer in town.

Hmmm Detroit has none... then again IBM and I believe Compaq have their World HQ's here :) Only place that you can find anything with Mac's in is Comp USA, and its not even a corner of the store anymore.

xvcoffee, what are you on about?

"Until then, enjoy your Mac and I'll enjoy my PC...and a 90% bigger software field to choose from"< MYTH!!!!!!!! where is all this "graphics software that is not available for the MAC OS???!! Games?? not into them but if desired i prefer my sons playstation2 on my 30 inch TV. OK what about other MONEY MAKING endeavours?? Professional 2d graphic illustration and print design?: Photoshop6 and EVERY thing else from the industry leaders at adobe. Offices workers??" MS office for the MAC and quicken . High end Web design?: Uhhh... how about EVERY thing from macromedia Special effects and film post production?? : premeire, after effects. Combustion and final cut pro for the MAC 3D?: from amorphium and Bryce AT THE LOW END up to lightwave, Cinema 4d and Maya. So that leaves all of the useless bloatware that resides in the big Discount wire bin at the front of Compusa. PLEASE NAME ALL THIS SOFTWARE THAT CAN BE USED PROFESSIONALLY TO MAKE MONEY FOR MY COMPANY THAT IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR THE MAC PLATFORM????

useless bloatware... please define.

PS. I'll just add that all of the neat poser "stuff" available for windows is not a good reason for any apsiring 3d PROFESSIONAL to leave the mac platform. if poser is all you plan on using in your work and you brim with anticpation for the next Ponytail, or pillbox hat for posette to arrive a renderosity, by all means dump your MAC get one of the Awesome New PCs with a big HD for your poser toys but if you aspire for any thing more than hobbyist endeavours LEARN TO ANIMATE, 3d ILLUSTRATE or 3d MODEL in any OS and produce quality work that wiil get you noticed by potential Clients/employers

">useless bloatware... please define. "< Anything application sitting on my hardrive that: A) Does contribute to the production of billable output B) does not even mildy entertain me personally and merely bloats the size of my applications folder if the "%90 more" figure is to be taken seriously then the industry standard Professionally used apps I listed above are the %10 percent and your other %90 is Bloatware.

Wolf: Myth?! Walk into any store that sells both Mac & PC software and count the aisles holding PC stuff. Then count the aisles (or maybe aisle or half-aisle) holding Mac stuff. And since when do people use their computers strictly to make money? Most people use 'em for many reasons...making money is only one. And what may be useless to you might be invaluable to someone else. That's why a large selection to pick from is good. The way I figure it, people are going to stick up for what they use and like. And they like what they're used to. Trouble is, a lot of people loose their objectivity and can't or won't see the truth. The same thing happened in the Bryce/Vue debates. Many Bryce loyalists just couldn't bring themselves to admit that--for a person who never used either program--Vue is easier to learn and use.

Attached Link: http://www.ucoug.com/shadows/index.html

Attached Link: http://www.ucoug.com/shadows/index.htm

Well im running IE 5.1 Under the ultra stable MAC OS X.1. nice site, my kind of design style!!. your 3d art link is broken i think i looks like you use some fairly high end industry standard Cross platform apps( Dream weaver etc.) Me too ....excellent!!! Look guys/girls, I use an oldermac G3 a new mac G4 at the office and two Dell 800+ MHZ P4s i think running win 2000 professional and a monsterous custom digital front end creoscitex server box for my digital press running NT service pack 6 And Guess what... adobe Pagemaker still SUCKS fo large publications with alot of pictures on both platforms!! these( mine is bigger than yours), platform wars are silly and immature I think the original post starting this thread was from the perspective of a person who is mainly interested the poser collateral. if thats your only concern i say YES go to the Windows platform get on the web and start downloading those conforming lace panties for posette. if Softimage 3D is your one and only dream application Dump windows and the mac OS and get your self an Irix work station running the required variant of UNIX to enjoy Softimage. But for any other high end graphics work that uses worthwhile industry standard software the new ultra stable Mac OS has a bright future.

Well, let me put it this way.... "like also doing DTP stuff (where a Mac is far superior)." This is a common quote, and one I can't find any support for no matter how hard I try. No important software is available Mac only. The Mac no longer has an edge in spee, resolution or color choice. In short, there is absolutely no objective evidence that this supoeriority is real. This is a leftover form the days when the only way to get affordable laser output was to run Mac's. That was decades ago. "PLEASE NAME ALL THIS SOFTWARE THAT CAN BE USED PROFESSIONALLY TO MAKE MONEY FOR MY COMPANY THAT IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR THE MAC PLATFORM????" Why would I pay about twice as much for the hardware when it gives me no advantage?

Hmmm.. You have repeated my question and utterly failed to answer it but instead changed the subject from software availability to hardware pricing so PCs arent better now.. just cheaper?? I will answer your question directly: Do not buy any Machine your income wont allow We mac users can afford our pricey,superficially beautiful hardware because we are using that %10 of the available high end ,industry standard software to turn our creativity into a viable income in the graphics field. So our high priced machines soon pay for themselves.

Hmm mines a mid range, and have more than paid for itself, not to mention, I'm in school, and make a viable living on a PC. Its not the platform. Its what ya use it for. That's what I love about PC's... its the most versatile platform on the planet. Oh and Wolf, my site is still under construction, so please excuse the borken links.

Soulhuntre ... It is not a question on the programs but the PC lacks (or at least did until recently) true fonts. It didn't have the proper postscript capability to be liscensed by adobe and other font houses. There is a huge thing for desktop. Another thing to think about is that print shops often charge more for PC jobs due to to the extra work involved in trying to get screen fonts to print properly.

i hear you brother!! my new site has been under construction fo four months got to get the still illustratoin section up on my server and stop procrastinating

lol me, I'm waiting on a buddy of mine to get the PHP scripts worked out... I tried scripting and fried my browser, I'll stick to design work.

No, Mac users should not switch to pc. Even if someone did use another system I would recommend, when choosing hardware or software, not to use anything where the same was not available for the Mac. There is lots and lots of junkware for the pc but if you're serious about what you do with the computer you use a Mac.

So xvcoffee, you're saying the PC is nothing more then a piece of junk. How little you know about it. Its not the platform, ITS THE USER! I know serious 3D Professionals in my area that if someone made them a MAC, they'd shoot it and quit their jobs. And same with some Mac people I know. Its all in the user. Its also been proven in many bench tests in the last 3 months that Windows XP Pro beats OSX hands down in terms of speed, stability, and backwards compatibility. Basically if it could run on Win98/Win2k, it will run on WinXP. I'm getting my copy in the next two weeks and I can't wait. Again, its not the platform so much as it is the user. If you're serious about what you do with the computer, USE YOUR PREFERENCE.

Like most of the PC/Mac threads, this one has become a pissing contest, I can piss farther than you, and all that stuff, but let me say: soulhuntre- Yep, Macs really, really do DTP stuff better than PCs, it has to do with the magic word "Postscript", which is native to Macs, but a add on for PCs. Try doing a EPS file with a complicated clipping path in both and you will see what I mean. Plus 90% of professional level DTP work is done on Macs, so you know the file will look right when the printer gets it, and I'm not talking about a printer on the end of a wire, I'm talking halftone printing!

Hey all :) Well, I am not going to do any pissing - just discuss some points with an open mind. "We mac users can afford our pricey,superficially beautiful hardware because we are using that %10 of the available high end ,industry standard software to turn our creativity into a viable income in the graphics field. So our high priced machines soon pay for themselves." I am confused, since there is no Mac only software I can find that is of any importance in the high end fields then any income gained from using a Mac is also gainable using a PC. Thus, that investment will get more/faster hardware. "Soulhuntre ... It is not a question on the programs but the PC lacks (or at least did until recently) true fonts. It didn't have the proper postscript capability to be liscensed by adobe and other font houses. There is a huge thing for desktop. Another thing to think about is that print shops often charge more for PC jobs due to to the extra work involved in trying to get screen fonts to print properly." Maybe we have a different idea of 'recently'? I am not trying to be a smart ass. Adobe has licenced it's fonts abilities to the Windows platform in the form of ATM (Adobe Type Manager) for at least the last 6 years that I know of (I ran it on Windows 95). Thus, the PC has had the ability to use Postscript fonts for quite a while now. Am I missing something? It is true that some houses still charge more for PC output - but that is only if you hand them the files in the native format of the software. it has been my experience and that of my clients that if you turn a properly formatted and pre-flighted EPS or PS file to a printer they don't have any interest in the platform/software that generated it - nor should they. "soulhuntre- Yep, Macs really, really do DTP stuff better than PCs, it has to do with the magic word "Postscript", which is native to Macs, but a add on for PCs. Try doing a EPS file with a complicated clipping path in both and you will see what I mean. Plus 90% of professional level DTP work is done on Macs, so you know the file will look right when the printer gets it, and I'm not talking about a printer on the end of a wire, I'm talking halftone printing!" I knwo that - I am talking about that myself. We do professional print work allt he time on PC's up to and including poster sizes and more. One of our clients is a PR firm in NYC that uses PC's to do similar work right next to their Mac's. The never have to use a Mac to overcome a printing problem. On a more technical note (and forgive me, I am a tech) Postscript isn't native to the Macintosh hardware or Operating system in any fashion at all. The Mac draws to the screen using a proprietary graphics subsystem just like the PC. neither of them use Postscript internally in any way at all. Again, I am not discounting your experience... just trying to understand it. If I run Quark on a PC and a Mac, or Illustrator and load a complex file that generates clipping paths it always works just fine for my clients. Anyway - thanks for your comments and for not getting hostile the way these conversations usually do!

Apparently NO ONE here is going to switch platforms based on the tedious arguments posted here so how about we pull the plug on this one???

hmmm some how pulling the plug makes me want to run and hide :)