EClark1849 posted at 12:13AM Sat, 10 June 2017 - #4307187

Genesis actually holds little to no interest for me, so even if I could get it into Blender fully rigged and working perfectly, I probably wouldn't use it. Of course, being able to get Genesis into Blender would suggest that I can get the figures I DO like and use, Dawn, V4, Roxie, etc. into Blender also. Or that I can perhaps find a way to do so.

Exactly - if it's a DUF, it should work. BTW, for those wondering why I wish Poser to emulate Blender's viewport in future versions, here's something to drool over. Skip to the 0:47 second mark for the shiny. Yes, it is a bit slow. That's because he has a lot of objects in the scene, but mostly because this is pre-alpha at the moment. Over the next few months, it will be optimized and improved upon. Again, imagine if we had something like this in Poser.

R_Hatch posted at 2:05AM Sat, 10 June 2017 - #4307188

EClark1849 posted at 12:13AM Sat, 10 June 2017 - #4307187

Genesis actually holds little to no interest for me, so even if I could get it into Blender fully rigged and working perfectly, I probably wouldn't use it. Of course, being able to get Genesis into Blender would suggest that I can get the figures I DO like and use, Dawn, V4, Roxie, etc. into Blender also. Or that I can perhaps find a way to do so.

Exactly - if it's a DUF, it should work. BTW, for those wondering why I wish Poser to emulate Blender's viewport in future versions, here's something to drool over. Skip to the 0:47 second mark for the shiny. Yes, it is a bit slow. That's because he has a lot of objects in the scene, but mostly because this is pre-alpha at the moment. Over the next few months, it will be optimized and improved upon. Again, imagine if we had something like this in Poser.

The problem is, that Poser's newer figures, those from the G2 line on, don't work in Studio. While I can probably, convert them to DUF format, I'm not sure the rigging information with be transferred with it.

Also, judging ONLY from what I saw in the video, I think SM will be reluctant to bring EEEVEEE to Poser even if it could. They just did a lot of work adapting Cycles to work with Firefly, and with their battlecry being Backwards compatibility forever!!!!, I'm not sure they'll want to make the changes to Cycles they need to in order to get Eeeveee to work. Judging from all the lights in that scene, one thing they'll have to do to speed things up is to add Portals to Superfly.

"I have clothing for M4 that won't work on G2M or G3M without manually fitting it in zbrush and porting it back in. And the transfer utility is nice but it's not a one-size-fits-all solution. If you're making skin-tight clothing then its usually fine, but most times you're still going to have to repaint weightmaps and create your own movement morphs, unless you like the 2005 pool-noodle, or stay-puff marshmallow man look in your clothes. Especially around shoulders elbows and knees. And all character morphs do not transfer equally as well depending on the body shape and how the clothing geometry is laid out"

I personally view that the ability to autofit the M4/V4 clothing was "stop gap" to ease the transition to the original genesis. There is so much newer/better content for the G2/G3 Models that most DAZ users are not recycling the old Millenium 4 stuff, particularly in light of the new IRay materials used with the newer content.

Also I Make mostly Mens clothing but I agree that how the clothing is laid out is important in avoiding the classic Puffy baked dough look. Also one must model in some basic wrinkle morphs at the joints as I have done with this futuristic business suit for the G3 male.

"Of course, being able to get Genesis into Blender would suggest that I can get the figures I DO like and use, Dawn, V4, Roxie, etc. into Blender also. Or that I can perhaps find a way to do.

It would seem that this plugin will not suit you then. from what I gather in the long thread about, at the Daz forum, it is really designed to work with the Genesis 3 rigging and will even load poses,morphs and animations in the .duf format from your Daz content library.

If you insist on using the poser natives then a collada or FBX export from poser 11 may be your best course of action.

Even though its no secret that Poser's market value might be at a deep lull, I don't think Poser would ever really be finished, there are still plenty of folks using it successfully in a professional setting (incl me) and since Poser basically started this while figure-based art thing, and has a fairly solid application to back it up. It delivers a fairly good tool set for the small price it asks for (and don't come with the free DS argument, most DS users spend WAY more on Genesis products than anything). You can render very awesome things in Poser, you just need to know what you're doing... which is incidentally a common requirement throughout CGI...

I was showing off Poser, not myself :D

That said, SM must not beat around the bush any more. Poser does have its flaws, some to infuriating degree, and they do need to get addressed a.s.a.p. I personally think that the creators of Poser never realized what they created, and it shows in their kind of laid-back approach to the development of the app and perhaps less than super-hot sexy figures... and DAZ saw the marketing value of it (and they're certainly milking the crap out of it). But I think this is where Poser shines, its not hell-bent on making a killing, its not trying to control your artwork, its not controlling the quality and since I've been playing around with DS more lately, Poser is definitely more designed for DIY CGI than DS is, which IMHO is the entire point of art (creativity, invention, innovation etc). Sure in DS you can do that, if you really want to... but never before have I witnessed such creative helplessness since DAZ has started taking things over. There are a lot of people out there that are totally clueless to the basics of CGI, and they expect everything to be done for them. I find that truly depressing, that some folks are incapable of expressing themselves with such amazing packages as DS available, for free.

Since I'm in the UK things have become better for me infrastructurally and now I can actually focus on my Poser figure for you. I know that a lot of people must have given up on PE by now but like I told a friend recently: it is what it is, but I cannot give up, I've come a long, way I just need to finish her. If and when PE does come out, I somehow hope that it will inspire people to try and release themselves of this total dependence on prefab figures and content. There is so much content out there already and all you need to do is teach yourself a tiny bit of rigging and you can recycle it instead of forking out hundreds of dollars for the same old crap every time some company in Utah needs money. Expression should not be controlled by money, but money should be controlled by expression. We are free to do what we want. Of course we should definitely support our vendors, but ask them to make what you want, they'll probably just do it.

The only reason I am still bothering with my Poser figure is that I am frustrated that my friends and colleagues are so hung up about this DAZ/Poser thing. Yes I might come across as a snob with that I can model my own stuff, but I just helped a buddy artist with my old hybrid V4-PE figure to work in his scenes. He was frustrated that he might have to start using Genesis and DAZ Studio, when all of his career he's been investing in Poser + V4. So I sorted something out for him. Its basically a V4 but then high-res and with lots of detail in the very right places. The dude is as happy as a pig in sh*t. Now I cannot do this for the masses because DAZ will sue me to hell and back. But yeah, my figure is finally on its way. If that won't work, then I have no idea what will. But guys, I've released myself from this figure circus friggin years ago my making my own figure and when you do that you'll find there's no need to even consider DAZ Studio. I'm not saying DS is crap. No, its... different. VERY market-oriented. I still prefer Poser, its closer to C4D and Max in terms of degrees of freedom, in my experience. This is why I considered C4D, because its way closer to Poser in terms of being a true CGI package, no materials are bound to one model, for example. Yeah Poser does have its shortcomings but that's what email/forums are for: bang them over the head until they fix it. And they do. I was a massive pain in the butt for Nerd3D, but he fixed a LOT of things in the time he ran Poser. Like I said, I think they stumbled on a goldmine and their biggest flaw is not realizing it. They're now catching up with their own success.

So no, Poser is not finished, its just not dominating the content market as aggressively as DAZ is.

"And don't even get me started on trying to rig skirts, dresses, robes, etc. DS and Poser both fail pretty badly at that no matter how good their respective auto fit tools are.

Indeed for long clothing below the thigh, Dynamics is the only way to go for both still and animated.

wolf359 posted at 6:15AM Sat, 10 June 2017 - #4307196

"Of course, being able to get Genesis into Blender would suggest that I can get the figures I DO like and use, Dawn, V4, Roxie, etc. into Blender also. Or that I can perhaps find a way to do.

---

It would seem that this plugin will not suit you then. from what I gather in the long thread about, at the Daz forum, it is really designed to work with the Genesis 3 rigging and will even load poses,morphs and animations in the .duf format from your Daz content library.

If you insist on using the poser natives then a collada or FBX export from poser 11 may be your best course of action.

I've tried using FBX. I KNOW that doesn't work. And even using the plugin as you suggested would be laborious and tedious. if you have a number of models to import, as you have do some adjustments.

"And even using the plugin as you suggested would be laborious and tedious. if you have a number of models to import, as you have do some adjustments."

Which is why I have No interest in the plugin even though I am a part time Blender user.

Here is the problem as I see it .

People want the Genesis Figures in thier favorite program/environment.

Fair enough.... however they want a genesis figure with full Daz studio funtionality and many somehow wish to preclude the use of Daz studio in the pipeline at all.

This is a fools gambit.

In the end Genesis is just a 3D model.

what makes it unique is the way Daz studio is coded to allow you to interact with the rigging and morphs built in to the model.

If you are so philosphically opposed to using Daz studio to access the full potential of the genesis models that is fine as well...

However be prepared to do whatever work is involved in getting that 3D model into your other program and be willing to accept compromises.

Daz gives us several industry standard export formats to send studio models&content to other applications some free.. some as paid addons( Alembic& MDD)

I am using .obj+MDD to get any Genesis Figure I want over to C4D with textures and animation intact I have 40 minutes of finished movie footage using this export method .

here are some Clips

(Not final on the sound)

Missing planets

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2TYEp536iB8QU5qb0Z0NW9vaWc/view

The reveal: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2TYEp536iB8MHFBcUVMOUl3OHM/view

Dhul-Quarnain https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2TYEp536iB8WWNCRjd4TDd2NkE/view

There ares NO compromises here I create the animation with both iclone and Daz studio aniMate2 and previs in Daz studio Open GL.

Each Character has to only be exported to C4D ONE time unless I change his clothing.

After that it is a simple matter of animating his/her next scene in DS/Iclone and dropping the new MDD motion Data on the server and loading it to the static mesh in C4D and he is performing his next action according to the script.

One could do the same with blender for still or animation renders as Blender supports MDD import unless you refuse to use DAZ Studio at all even for the one time .obj /MDD export.

you only really have two viable options if you want to use genesis models

Use Daz studio for everything including rendering

or use DAZ Studio just enough to export the bloody models to your other program and DO THE WORK to get them rendered still or animated.

" There is so much content out there already and all you need to do is teach yourself a tiny bit of rigging and you can recycle it instead of forking out hundreds of dollars for the same old crap every time some company in Utah needs money. "............. "This is why I considered C4D, because its way closer to Poser in terms of being a true CGI package, no materials are bound to one model, for example.

I dont give any money to "some company in Utah" I have the skills to make my own new, one off clothing content I suspect that the same is true for Ambient Shade I suspect that the same is true for Eclarke and for you of course.

However telling the vast majority of poser users to become content developers,as a means to liberate themselves from vendors like DAZ is not realistic and frankly a bit condescending.

Oh and you may have "Considered C4D "but I have actually used C4D for over a decade and I can assure that it is NOTHING Like poser.....NOTHING.

wolf359 posted at 3:03PM Sat, 10 June 2017 - #4307202

" There is so much content out there already and all you need to do is teach yourself a tiny bit of rigging and you can recycle it instead of forking out hundreds of dollars for the same old crap every time some company in Utah needs money. "............. "This is why I considered C4D, because its way closer to Poser in terms of being a true CGI package, no materials are bound to one model, for example.

---

I dont give any money to "some company in Utah" I have the skills to make my own new, one off clothing content I suspect that the same is true for Ambient Shade I suspect that the same is true for Eclarke and for you of course.

However telling the vast majority of poser users to become content developers,as a means to liberate themselves from vendors like DAZ is not realistic and frankly a bit condescending.

I'm definitely not saying you must do that, do with what you can, but we all have to be mature and realistic about our competencies and skills, and if you just don't have the skill, then you are also kind of liberated from the authority to argue about it. Many of my friends and I have made a conscious effort to argue from this point of view and it is only fair to the vendors that do all the work here. Such a mentality actually makes CGI a much more pleasurable exerience and helps a person actually focus on areas that he/she needs improving on, like poke throughs of cloth, square fingertips, glittery hair, dull expressionless HDRI-based renders...

Oh and you may have "Considered C4D "but I have actually used C4D for over a decade and I can assure that it is NOTHING Like poser.....NOTHING.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote or are you just going to pick out the things that you can whine about? If you would have read carefully you would have read that I am comparing certain aspects of C4D to Poser, like copying materials across to other objects. Any dummy would know Poser and C4D are very different packages, Poser cannot model stuff from scratch for example, but the idea of how the objects, materials shaders, renderers work is very similar.

I am sure you probably get my point in as much as I can understand some of the points you have made up in the ret of this thread, but when you take a few steps back, you'll probably find that many of our arguments are not so poignant since Poser just seems to be plodding along at its own pace, and may people are just using Poser quite happily.

I'm sorry guys ... there are those trying to keep this positive and on track and there are those who refuse ... so ... let's just NOT. NO MORE software "war", no more predicting the demise of Poser. It does not support the community. this is locked.