3D-Mobster posted at 11:10AM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338864

EClark1894 posted at 1:07PM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338845

Both Superfly AND Firefly already use HDRI lighting and have been able to for quite a while.

Figures are a matter of taste and hype. It actually took me a while to like V4 and I never really did like A4. I thought V3 and A3 were better lookig figures. None of that means that hyper realistic figures aren't better, just different and not what I need.

I know that Poser can use HDRI, but the features are very limited for actually working with HDRI. For instant the ability to rotate the map, control it strength and so on. Even the ability to work with a default light while the HDRI is the only light in the scene.

Obviously figures are a matter of taste wont argue with that, but to me there is a reason why G and V characters are so popular and its not only a matter of content. But they are actually quite good. With decent rigs and so forth. And there is no reason as I see it, why SM shouldn't match them with their own characters, remember that Poser through all the releases kept adding new characters and for the most time of higher quality, as far as I know, it started to really drop when they failed matching those that Daz released. And my guess is that they thought it weren't really important because people could just use those. But it have put them behind in my opinion. Because they have to follow up of what figures Daz releases, as you can see when the new G were released and it couldn't easily be used in Poser. In my opinion that is a bad position to be in for SM, instead of making and supporting their own characters.

They didn't really fail by matching DAZ. In fact, if I recall, correctly, three of them, NearMe, Terai Yuki and Miki actually became quite popular. I believe what happened next was similar to what happened to Genesis. Poser changed the rigging on the figures. Up until that point, I believe the figures in Poser would work in Studio. When Poser changed the rigging, DAZ didn't adopt the change, and the figures would no longer work in Studio. I seem to recall a little dust up about it, but no gigantic push back, but that's why Poser figures don't work in Studio.

EClark1894 posted at 5:33PM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338882

They didn't really fail by matching DAZ. In fact, if I recall, correctly, three of them, NearMe, Terai Yuki and Miki actually became quite popular. I believe what happened next was similar to what happened to Genesis. Poser changed the rigging on the figures. Up until that point, I believe the figures in Poser would work in Studio. When Poser changed the rigging, DAZ didn't adopt the change, and the figures would no longer work in Studio. I seem to recall a little dust up about it, but no gigantic push back, but that's why Poser figures don't work in Studio.

But it doesn't really matter whether its Poser characters that is not working in Daz or the other way around. However I do think that Daz have constantly kept up with releasing new characters, whereas SM haven't. It would be nice if all the characters worked perfectly regardless of software for the users, but since they keep introducing newer and better features and apparently ain't interested in working together for the whole community, so both software packages can benefit, it makes sense that they supply decent characters of their own. I don't think its clever of any of them to rely to much on each others stuff, and since Daz do supply the majority of the characters that people use, it automatically puts SM a few steps behind them. Because they can't guarantee that a new Poser version will also support new character releases by Daz. But they can guarantee high quality characters with good rigs and new features if they supply them themselves.

3D-Mobster posted at 9:09PM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338889

EClark1894 posted at 5:33PM Sat, 03 November 2018 - #4338882

They didn't really fail by matching DAZ. In fact, if I recall, correctly, three of them, NearMe, Terai Yuki and Miki actually became quite popular. I believe what happened next was similar to what happened to Genesis. Poser changed the rigging on the figures. Up until that point, I believe the figures in Poser would work in Studio. When Poser changed the rigging, DAZ didn't adopt the change, and the figures would no longer work in Studio. I seem to recall a little dust up about it, but no gigantic push back, but that's why Poser figures don't work in Studio.

But it doesn't really matter whether its Poser characters that is not working in Daz or the other way around. However I do think that Daz have constantly kept up with releasing new characters, whereas SM haven't. It would be nice if all the characters worked perfectly regardless of software for the users, but since they keep introducing newer and better features and apparently ain't interested in working together for the whole community, so both software packages can benefit, it makes sense that they supply decent characters of their own. I don't think its clever of any of them to rely to much on each others stuff, and since Daz do supply the majority of the characters that people use, it automatically puts SM a few steps behind them. Because they can't guarantee that a new Poser version will also support new character releases by Daz. But they can guarantee high quality characters with good rigs and new features if they supply them themselves.

I just think you're asking a car company to make superior tires to their tire supplier.

I just think you're asking a car company to make superior tires to

their tire supplier.

No.. he is simply saying that if your current tire"supplier" decides to start making tires that do not fit or function for your vehicle platform.

The responsibility Falls upon YOU* to remedy the situation for your customers on YOU

Having an emotional reaction to former the tire suppliers "betrayal" Does not solve your tire problem

This is how business works in a Capitalist economy on facts and logistical reality not wishes and Emotions

When Apple realized that motorola simply could not deliver chips with the performance apple needed, they switched to Intel. and mac users forgot that motorola ever existed.

Daz inc. themselves, had to finally admit that they made a fools bargain with optitex where they could bundle their cloth sim plugin with Daz studio yet had to rely on optitex to provide them with cloth meshes in the proprietary optitex format

Optitex trickel out a sparse amount of items and left Daz in the lurch with frustrated customers who complained "Poser can do it why not you DAZ !!! .

How did Daz finally respond to their customers needs/concerns??

with emotional rants that seem to imply that optitex is the only way to get dynamic cloth in Daz studio and how they betrayed us and "hurt the community"??

NO..they Created "Dforce" and started selling Dforce items in their store.

Reallusion Made similar Investment in better looking Base Males and female for iclone after Daz Changed the rigging in G3 and broke compatibility with Iclone 3Dxchange.

To me, its obvious that Smith Micro simply cannot afford to make in the investments in better base figures or they would have already.

wolf359 posted at 8:36AM Sun, 04 November 2018 - #4338935

I just think you're asking a car company to make superior tires to

their tire supplier.

No.. he is simply saying that if your current tire"supplier" decides to start making tires that do not fit or function for your vehicle platform.

The responsibility Falls upon YOU* to remedy the situation for your customers on YOU

Having an emotional reaction to former the tire suppliers "betrayal" Does not solve your tire problem

This is how business works in a Capitalist economy on facts and logistical reality not wishes and Emotions

When Apple realized that motorola simply could not deliver chips with the performance apple needed, they switched to Intel. and mac users forgot that motorola ever existed.

Daz inc. themselves, had to finally admit that they made a fools bargain with optitex where they could bundle their cloth sim plugin with Daz studio yet had to rely on optitex to provide them with cloth meshes in the proprietary optitex format

Optitex trickel out a sparse amount of items and left Daz in the lurch with frustrated customers who complained "Poser can do it why not you DAZ !!! .

How did Daz finally respond to their customers needs/concerns??

with emotional rants that seem to imply that optitex is the only way to get dynamic cloth in Daz studio and how they betrayed us and "hurt the community"??

NO..they Created "Dforce" and started selling Dforce items in their store.

Reallusion Made similar Investment in better looking Base Males and female for iclone after Daz Changed the rigging in G3 and broke compatibility with Iclone 3Dxchange.

To me, its obvious that Smith Micro simply cannot afford to make in the investments in better base figures or they would have already.

I don't know if DAZ "created" D-Force or not, but it's hardly an "innovative" move. Poser has had the Bullet Physics engine for several versions now. I'll concede that SM's no marketing genius, But D-Force isn't doing anything that Bullet physics can't. In fact. I believe even Maya and Blender both use Bullet Physics. As for new figures to use. Poser has them. Again, hiring a marketing genius might help. Even Reallusion sees the potential in Dusk and Dawn, the Hivewire figures. I certainly do.

EClark1894 posted at 4:17PM Sun, 04 November 2018 - #4338923

I just think you're asking a car company to make superior tires to their tire supplier.

As wolf359 said, Poser used to come with good or at least decent characters for its time, its just that they for whatever reason, decided that it weren't important anymore. but rather kept shipping new Poser versions with the same old characters. And in those releases where they did add new ones, they simply weren't of very high standard. But there is nothing that prevent them from adding good characters again, they just need to hire a good character modeller and rigger, which there are plenty of. So they could easily find a good freelancer or whatever to do this. Obviously it will cost some money, but my guess is that it cost and have cost them a whole lot more by not doing it. Because it is one of the best and easiest way and most likely also the cheapest way to promote a new version of Poser in my opinion. And besides that it wouldn't interfere with further development of features.

I don't know if DAZ "created" D-Force or not, but it's hardly an >"innovative"...But D-Force isn't doing anything that Bullet physics >can't.

It does not matter who actually wrote the code for Dforce and ..no a cloth simulation engine is hardly "innovative" in this day and age.

What Matters is that Daz took steps to deal with optitex closed format Debacle, and gave their customers an internal Dynamic cloth solution that Daz owns/controls.

What steps have SM taken to deal with the apparent rejection by content developers of their native figures for the last decade???

Again, hiring a marketing genius might help.

Hiring A character modelor from Artstation.com would help more.

Even Reallusion sees the potential in Dusk and Dawn, the >Hivewire figures. I certainly do.

Reallusion understands strategic planning must preceed product development and marketing.

So they studied the prefabbed market & built a program that imports, and converts to native iclone Avatars, the prefabbed figures that are the most popular,Daz Genesis,Daz Mike&Vicky4 and Hivewire's Dawn and dusk

Not Don,judy,james,jessi,sydney simon ,alison Ryan, Rex or roxie Paul or pauline nor the various third party "saviour" figures from the ash bin of poser history.

and once more we're into the usual fight.

I'm betting thread lock in 20 more posts...

MagnusGreel posted at 11:36PM Sun, 04 November 2018 - #4338949

and once more we're into the usual fight.

I'm betting thread lock in 20 more posts...

Why would the posts be seen as a fight? nothing offensive have been said in any of them or do you mean since the word Daz and Poser is used in the same post its automatically going to end in a fight rather than a discussion and a sharing of thoughts regarding the software that people in the community uses?

It has to be possible to do that without every thread getting locked, but lets see if you are correct. 19 posts to go :)

18 left.

The OP asked if there is anything new coming in Poser. I suspect if they wanted to know all about the new iClone software they would have asked in the iClone section of the forums. The same goes as to the state of DAZ. Not the topic and not a useful answer to the OP. The thread should have been locked a long time ago.

Rendo; this is why people left for the official SM forums and the unchanged lax control over the forums is not likely to be drawing them back; no matter the partnerships you are making with SM.

17 and I hope we don't have to keep counting. Kill it now and put us out of our misery.

I wouldn't call it a fight. Just a disagreement. Not even a contentious one. If you don't like the thread, you could always simply stop reading it.

parkdalegardener posted at 7:40AM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4338984

The OP asked if there is anything new coming in Poser. I suspect if they wanted to know all about the new iClone software they would have asked in the iClone section of the forums. The same goes as to the state of DAZ. Not the topic and not a useful answer to the OP. The thread should have been locked a long time ago.

Rendo; this is why people left for the official SM forums and the unchanged lax control over the forums is not likely to be drawing them back; no matter the partnerships you are making with SM.

17 and I hope we don't have to keep counting. Kill it now and put us out of our misery.

I don't think you can really blame rendo for this too much. When it comes down to it, SM needs to responsive in updating official threads they have here so these speculation threads don't even start. Though SM doesn't have to spill the beans on what they have coming up, but they should be doing better with posting updates. In their official announcements forum, it's 17 days shy of being a year since they've had any updates. As far as this site goes, that should be the spot to let poser users know that they're still here and working on any updates, especially in light of their partnership with Rendo to take content from Content Paradise. I haven't seen any posts from the Development manager (I think his name was Rafael) that had posted last year, so it would be a good time for him give users an update here as well as on the official site.

Okay, now, I'm out.

parkdalegardener posted at 2:09PM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4338984

The OP asked if there is anything new coming in Poser. I suspect if they wanted to know all about the new iClone software they would have asked in the iClone section of the forums. The same goes as to the state of DAZ. Not the topic and not a useful answer to the OP. The thread should have been locked a long time ago.

Rendo; this is why people left for the official SM forums and the unchanged lax control over the forums is not likely to be drawing them back; no matter the partnerships you are making with SM.

17 and I hope we don't have to keep counting. Kill it now and put us out of our misery.

Ain't a forum for sharing thoughts and ask questions and get other peoples opinions? I do know that some threads gets offensive and forces rendo to close them, which is fine, But at least to me, nothing that have been said by other posters have offended me and I don't get the impression that I have offended them either.

I do know that Iclone might not have been of the interest of the OP, but it might and maybe he got his answer in the first few posts so is already satisfied. No one except SM is really able to answer his question, since no one knows for certain. So that other users uses his post for sharing thoughts derived from his question, might be of interest to him or it might not, but regardless, I doubt that he feel offended by people talking on about others topics.

I have a difficult time understanding why you blame a chat like this for people leaving? Do you think or know if the people you are referring to is really getting offended, if a thread matures and develop into other topics and that is enough for them to feel so offended that they leave a forum completely? If that is the case, I would assume that rendo would have no chance whatsoever at keeping them, because anything would be able to trigger them to leave, the moment someone mention Daz, Poser or Iclone in the same post, they would request for the thread to be locked. If a good constructive discussion and asking questions and sharing of thoughts ain't what makes a forum interesting in the first place, why even bother with them.

Personally i think its way more frustrating that every time you have to make a post, you have to be careful about what you write, because someone might feel offended. But since that is not the person I am and see nothing wrong in sharing my thoughts as long as its not a personal attack on someone, I simply refuse to take into account that people might get offended when talking about different software packages. I make content for both Daz and Poser, so both of them are of interest to me and simply prefer working in Poser as Im more used to that, but that doesn't mean that I "like" SM more than Daz and hope for them to go away. But comparing them and looking at good and bad things for each of them is interesting. But just because I make content for these programs, it doesn't mean I feel a need to yell for a thread to be closed because someone mentions Iclone,

I hope you see why its confuses me, because when you and others call for rendo to close the thread due to what I presume is primarily because of eclark, wolfs and my posts as none of them answers the OP question, which logically can only be answered with an "I don't know" answer and the moment that is not the case the thread should be closed or people might leave the forum. If thats the case, I think its sad to be honest.

There would be no fights if everybody followed these simple rules: :

• DAZ users posted in the DAZ forums

• iClone users posted in iClone forums

• Poser users posted in Poser forums

Problem solved.

tonyvilters posted at 4:08PM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4339002

There would be no fights if everybody followed these simple rules: :

• DAZ users posted in the DAZ forums

• iClone users posted in iClone forums

• Poser users posted in Poser forums

Problem solved.

Can you do me a favor and try to explain why a discussion regarding the different software solution is an issue, I just don't get why it is considered such a bad thing?

You also refer to this as being a fight from what I understand, which is very surprising to me as wolf, eclark and me have all clearly stated that we all see it as nothing more than a discussion and sharing of thoughts and not as a fight. There have been no personal attacks of any sorts.

3D-Mobster posted at 9:47AM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4339007

tonyvilters posted at 4:08PM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4339002

There would be no fights if everybody followed these simple rules: :

• DAZ users posted in the DAZ forums

• iClone users posted in iClone forums

• Poser users posted in Poser forums

Problem solved.

Can you do me a favor and try to explain why a discussion regarding the different software solution is an issue, I just don't get why it is considered such a bad thing?

You also refer to this as being a fight from what I understand, which is very surprising to me as wolf, eclark and me have all clearly stated that we all see it as nothing more than a discussion and sharing of thoughts and not as a fight. There have been no personal attacks of any sorts.

Stop fighting with him telling you that you guys are fighting.damn it. ? lol

oh almost forgot. #10

tonyvilters posted at 6:10PM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4339002

There would be no fights if everybody followed these simple rules: :

• DAZ users posted in the DAZ forums

• iClone users posted in iClone forums

• Poser users posted in Poser forums

Problem solved.

I am a Poser user, a DS user and an IClone user. Yeah ;-P Anyway, I use every Forum, Id like to.

tonyvilters posted at 6:33PM Mon, 05 November 2018 - #4339002

There would be no fights if everybody followed these simple rules: :

• DAZ users posted in the DAZ forums

• iClone users posted in iClone forums

• Poser users posted in Poser forums

Problem solved.

Seriousley, I'm glad, this is not about politics. ;-)

I'm going to address the original question, then I am going to butt out. A good way to measure where the direction of a product is going is to go over to their financial section and read what is being said in their conference calls. You might also want to check out the SEC filed financials, but the conference calls are where management discuss the future endeavors of the company. The company is Smith Micro, their stock symbol is SMSI. If you are going to be putting a significant amount of your time and talent into using a product, and are interested in what it's strategic placement in a company is, that's a good place to start.

diogenese19348 posted at 12:03PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339081

I'm going to address the original question, then I am going to butt out. A good way to measure where the direction of a product is going is to go over to their financial section and read what is being said in their conference calls. You might also want to check out the SEC filed financials, but the conference calls are where management discuss the future endeavors of the company. The company is Smith Micro, their stock symbol is SMSI. If you are going to be putting a significant amount of your time and talent into using a product, and are interested in what it's strategic placement in a company is, that's a good place to start.

Yeah, I'm going to have say that I don't think that will work in this case. It's what I keep pointing out to people who want SM to make better figures. SM is a software company. Poser isn't even the top earner among the SM products, as SM isn't even a computer graphics software company.

arrow1 posted at 12:59PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4337911

Many thanks for your reply.I was a bit concerned that with the change of management with Poser it might have been coming to an end.I use have used Poser since version 4.Cheers

I don't why or how I missed this question originally, but it wasn't Poser's management team that changed, but the development team.

EClark1894 posted at 1:14PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339103

diogenese19348 posted at 12:03PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339081

I'm going to address the original question, then I am going to butt out. A good way to measure where the direction of a product is going is to go over to their financial section and read what is being said in their conference calls. You might also want to check out the SEC filed financials, but the conference calls are where management discuss the future endeavors of the company. The company is Smith Micro, their stock symbol is SMSI. If you are going to be putting a significant amount of your time and talent into using a product, and are interested in what it's strategic placement in a company is, that's a good place to start.

Yeah, I'm going to have say that I don't think that will work in this case. It's what I keep pointing out to people who want SM to make better figures. SM is a software company. Poser isn't even the top earner among the SM products, as SM isn't even a computer graphics software company.

Which is exactly the problem. And SM isn't all that big a company, they pulled in less that $24 million in revenue last year. And Poser was an insignificant part of that, the whole graphics division is now doing less than $300K per quarter. So for people asking about Poser Development, you have to keep that in mind. The development team just can't be all that big.

I did promise to butt out. I think that issue needed to be raised. Later.

diogenese19348 posted at 4:10PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339132

EClark1894 posted at 1:14PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339103

diogenese19348 posted at 12:03PM Tue, 06 November 2018 - #4339081

I'm going to address the original question, then I am going to butt out. A good way to measure where the direction of a product is going is to go over to their financial section and read what is being said in their conference calls. You might also want to check out the SEC filed financials, but the conference calls are where management discuss the future endeavors of the company. The company is Smith Micro, their stock symbol is SMSI. If you are going to be putting a significant amount of your time and talent into using a product, and are interested in what it's strategic placement in a company is, that's a good place to start.

Yeah, I'm going to have say that I don't think that will work in this case. It's what I keep pointing out to people who want SM to make better figures. SM is a software company. Poser isn't even the top earner among the SM products, as SM isn't even a computer graphics software company.

Which is exactly the problem. And SM isn't all that big a company, they pulled in less that $24 million in revenue last year. And Poser was an insignificant part of that, the whole graphics division is now doing less than $300K per quarter. So for people asking about Poser Development, you have to keep that in mind. The development team just can't be all that big.

I did promise to butt out. I think that issue needed to be raised. Later.

You can see who the development team is by looking under the Help Menu and finding About Poser. I think the current team is about six people. I don't know if that's a big team or not. Blender, for example, is done primarily by volunteers.

EClark1894 posted at 3:37AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339150

You can see who the development team is by looking under the Help Menu and finding About Poser. I think the current team is about six people. I don't know if that's a big team or not. Blender, for example, is done primarily by volunteers.

It sounds like a decent sized team to me. Lots of software developers ain't a lot more than that as far as I know and taking into account that its a limited sized market they are developing to, I would say that its fairly good, if they are working full time on Poser only that is, but they do have other graphic software packages, so they maybe they work on those as well.

3D-Mobster posted at 6:18AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339181

EClark1894 posted at 3:37AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339150

You can see who the development team is by looking under the Help Menu and finding About Poser. I think the current team is about six people. I don't know if that's a big team or not. Blender, for example, is done primarily by volunteers.

It sounds like a decent sized team to me. Lots of software developers ain't a lot more than that as far as I know and taking into account that its a limited sized market they are developing to, I would say that its fairly good, if they are working full time on Poser only that is, but they do have other graphic software packages, so they maybe they work on those as well.

Could be. Might also be why their average turnaround time is two years between major releases.

Don't forget that the "old" Poser team had 20+ years of experience with the Poser code and its inner workings, and a completely new team is working in from basically "zero" previous knowledge. The "team change" does take time and effort. Please give them some time and respect to get to know the code and its internals.

Yes, they are working one it, but yes it will take time. It is no easy task to jump into a code where almost everything is related to each other.

Best regards, Tony

It would be interesting though to know the process by which Poser or Studio for that matter each does their own software development. What takes the longest to do? Adding a new feature or squashing bugs?

EClark1894 posted at 10:05AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339209

What takes the longest to do? Adding a new feature or squashing bugs?.

Squashing bugs may affect other things, and no telling how far down that may go if you are not the one/ones who built the program from the ground up , 20 + years is a long time, so I would have to say... squashing bugs maybe.

So....did I win ? ?

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 7:46PM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339216

EClark1894 posted at 10:05AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339209

What takes the longest to do? Adding a new feature or squashing bugs?.

Squashing bugs may affect other things, and no telling how far down that may go if you are not the one/ones who built the program from the ground up , 20 + years is a long time, so I would have to say... squashing bugs maybe.

So....did I win ? ?

I actually think adding new features take the longest, especially now that it seems like they might be working towards better integration with blender in form of PBR, also adding new features can force them having to change some of the very basic ways things are done in Poser, as it might not be compatible with new technology that is introduced.

But yeah you won DarkerSideOfArt :D

3D-Mobster posted at 1:19PM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339226

TheDarkerSideOfArt posted at 7:46PM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339216

EClark1894 posted at 10:05AM Wed, 07 November 2018 - #4339209

What takes the longest to do? Adding a new feature or squashing bugs?.

Squashing bugs may affect other things, and no telling how far down that may go if you are not the one/ones who built the program from the ground up , 20 + years is a long time, so I would have to say... squashing bugs maybe.

So....did I win ? ?

I actually think adding new features take the longest, especially now that it seems like they might be working towards better integration with blender in form of PBR, also adding new features can force them having to change some of the very basic ways things are done in Poser, as it might not be compatible with new technology that is introduced.

But yeah you won DarkerSideOfArt :D

WooHoo...go me go me

wait.what did I win.................

I am testing multiple apps because : Testing is what I do.

What takes the longest bugs or features? That depends on what feature or bug you are talking about.

There is one bug that will take about a year (if not 2) to fix, 6 months to finetune and certainly 6 months of testing. The bug everybody knows about : The unwanted welding/unwelding of vertex groups.=> And EVEYTHING related to this bug : Like the vertex group editor, then you fly right into the hair room, the setup-room, the fitting room and so on, til the very-very basic of "save or export the obj file". This "masterbug" as it is called touches each and every part of Poser so it will take time. LOTS of time.

Fixing a bug might be difficult or easy. Depends. Are both Windows and Mac involved? How deep do we go back in the code, and what features crossed our path in finding the bug?.

Adding a feature? Tja, is it something completely new like the measurement tool. Rather easy as it is a "stand alone feature".

Adding a node is rather easy after you have figured out the math.

Adding or correcting how the setup-room behaves brings you also to the fitting and the hair room, So? Not so simple.

Speaking for Poser? I have seen bugs repaired/fixed in less then a week while others like "the masterbug" have been open for years because , well, it goes back to the very-very early years of Poser and it's initial link to Max. (Unwelded vertex groups with double vertex at all welds).

Ach, it is more or less the same thing/workflow/timetable for all apps I test.

**See the disaster of the latest Windows 1809 Oktober release. **

Best of intentions, a million beta testers, and see the result at roll-out. My conclusion for this Windows thing, (and others apps as well) is simple => Wrong or bad choice of beta testers. It is a JOB you know. And for the Companies? ? ? LISTEN to your beta testers.

Yeah, some bugs will take some time to fix, but I think you have to make a distinction between actually fixing a bug and knowing about it. Did the Poser team work on the bug you are referring to for several years or did they just have it as a known bug for that time, but chose not to fix it because it would be complicated and maybe not worth it?

I can not talk for the old or for the new Poser team and this "masterbug" is NOT a masterbug for everybody.

The end users that buy, load, pose and render content will never see this bug. So what is the issue? These users don't care and continue their creative art with outstanding results anyway.

This is a masterbug for content creators that want to deliver quality items and maintain optimal obj file quality and flexibility.

In the early days, Poser was created as a "pose" help. To get visualisation reference poses for artists that draw or paint people.

The setup room to actually "rig" obj files only came to the general public with Poser4Pro.

At the time many "hobby" content creators became vendors. And clothing became rigged and posable. Only when digging deeper into the possibilities of adding morphs, JCM's and all the rest we have now, did the double vertex issue surface. it is like a "handbrake" over what was/is possible with a properly vertex grouped and welded obj file.

So? it was, and still is, only a "masterbug" for content creators. (And most of them know their way around it by now.)

So, from being an "unkown" bug, it became a known bug, to a very important bug, to the "masterbug", to a less important bug because the workaround is out.

Load-pose-render users don't have a bug because they never run into the issue. Content creators that know their Job also knwo how to do the repair.

Hobby end users alsways have my Video4 on my youtube channel.

But having the bug is a PIA and requires the correct procedures to get around it.

See? LOL, Bugs are living things. LOL.

To go back in history.

I wrote above about the initial link between Poser and Max.(Yes, yes, I am an old timer, LOL, because we are talking middle of the 1990's here.) But, and here comes the but.....

I think, (but have to check) that BOTH apps, Poser AND Max are BOTH unable to export a properly vertex grouped and welded obj file. Poser is not the only app out there to still have this double vertex at welds issue.

tonyvilters posted at 12:34AM Thu, 08 November 2018 - #4339254

To go back in history.

I wrote above about the initial link between Poser and Max.(Yes, yes, I am an old timer, LOL, because we are talking middle of the 1990's here.) But, and here comes the but.....

I think, (but have to check) that BOTH apps, Poser AND Max are BOTH unable to export a properly vertex grouped and welded obj file. Poser is not the only app out there to still have this double vertex at welds issue.

Sounds interesting, I have never heard about a double vertex weld issues and I use Max as well and had for a long time now, can you explain or show what it would look like in a mesh or how exactly this bug would show itself? maybe its just the term Im not familiar with.

Wait is that what that is (the bug) when it looks like a single random vert is just frozen in 3D space and won't move with the rest of the part of the item,like all the post I've seen in the past of an open mouth and it seems like a single vert from the jaw was welded some how to the roof of the mouth.? Or is that another issue ?

I briefly talk about the issue in my First video in the Poser2Blender2Poser series on youtube.

Poser2Blender2Poser The correct import and export settings

The issue about the unwelding of vertex groups at obj file save is shown here in Video4 of the series.

Poser2Blender2Poser : Why you have to delete the Poser saved obj files

@ TheDarksideOfArt

I look at and handle a lot of end users issues and most of them can be traced back to the quality of the obj file. Lost vertex, unwelded parts, you name it, I have seen it. Pockets or buttons or belts that are thrown on, welded only to God, improper clean-up after the creator changed his mind, all passed and where released over time because "it worked".

Then comes some guy that wants to create a morph, or wants to do a "refit", and the whole thing comes apart. Tja, unwelded parts don't follow and weld cracks all over the place.

Lost vertex are very common too. And they are not so easy to handle because as we all know : Once finished and rigged, one has to mantain vertex order.

The issue we are talking about here are the double vertex at all welds between the vertex groups. => See Video4: Why you have to delete the Poser saved obj files.

Poser is a very solid app. Most end users issues can be traced back to the quality of the obj files.

Best regards, Tony

tonyvilters posted at 12:48PM Thu, 08 November 2018 - #4339278

I briefly talk about the issue in my First video in the Poser2Blender2Poser series on youtube.

Poser2Blender2Poser The correct import and export settings

The issue about the unwelding of vertex groups at obj file save is shown here in Video4 of the series.

Poser2Blender2Poser : Why you have to delete the Poser saved obj files

Watch the videos, nice work on those. I haven't made any conforming cloth myself, but I did make some morphs for Victoria 4 in Zbrush some time ago, which was ok. i mean I always found it a bit overly complicated to make morphs in Poser. Which could be due to the bug you refer to with the OBJ format. However I can't help thinking that its most likely due to poor design in Poser rather than a bug.

Because you would assume that it would be possible to fairly easy copy a changes from one mesh to a character simply using the obj file. If the vertex order is kept for the mesh. So for instant lets say you have V4 and you export her as an obj file and do some morphing etc. When you are done you import her to Poser simply with the correct vertex order and as all the groups etc are already there in the original V4, it must know which vertices belongs to which group etc. and simply coping from the plain obj V4 to the real V4 with that information should be fairly easy I would assume.

arrow1 : Blender is releasing 2.8 with eevee around January .Last time there was a Poser upgrade after a Blender upgrade with cycles.

wolf359 : Go get Maya n MudBox.

Is it too far back to actually track what triggers this ?(frozen vert) It seems random out of around almost 20 standalone figures I've had it happen to me once in PP2014,but fixed it within minutes,but still bothered me to this day what made it happen out of nowhere? Im going to include a super high quality hires pic of what I mean.

I dont have images of it..lol ,but on a more serious note, if the obj is solid,was this an issue of re saving it to the library and its just a random thing and does your vids cover that? (note it wasn't welded I made the head invisible leaving the jaw visible and brushed the top of that point with the weight map brush and it went down into the jaw almost as if Poser removed the weight map on that one tiny point only which was perfect before being saved and reloaded )

That drawing would make Leonardo da vinci flee in shame!! :D

But no its not that issue, have experience it some times but never really figured out what causes it, but I suspect it have something to do with morphs. But that a wild guess.

Im wondering if that masterpiece drawing of yours is copyrighted, because I can see it getting stolen if its not :D

3D-Mobster posted at 1:22PM Thu, 08 November 2018 - #4339328

That drawing would make Leonardo da vinci flee in shame!! :D

But no its not that issue, have experience it some times but never really figured out what causes it, but I suspect it have something to do with morphs. But that a wild guess.

Im wondering if that masterpiece drawing of yours is copyrighted, because I can see it getting stolen if its not :D

hmm! Thats my future, release,I'm watching you ?

wolf359 : Go get Maya n MudBox.

I thought Autodesk Killed off Mudbox??

To be honest I think Maya is truly Awesome however I refuse to buy into Autodesks Monthly rental scheme.

If and when I can Afford to make a major investment in all new hardware and, retire my current pipeline completely, I think SidefX Houdini would be my application of choice.

wolf359 posted at 2:39PM Thu, 08 November 2018 - #4339338

wolf359 : Go get Maya n MudBox.

I thought Autodesk Killed off Mudbox??

To be honest I think Maya is truly Awesome however I refuse to buy into Autodesks Monthly rental scheme.

If and when I can Afford to make a major investment in all new hardware and, retire my current pipeline completely, I think SidefX Houdini would be my application of choice.

Did you check on the LT version its only 245.00 a year and its supposed to be for 3D modeling and animation software built for indie game makers ? dont know how much is removed from the full version though. theres a lot of choices now to get it done at a more affordable price.

Did you check on the LT version its only 245.00 a year and its supposed to be for 3D modeling and animation software built for indie game makers ? dont know how much is removed from the full version though. theres a lot of choices now to get it done at a more affordable price.

I am not an Indie game maker. an I am not making the CG Dragons for HBO's "game of thrones" on my old hardware. I have Maxon Cinema4D with Realflow and lightwave 2015 for VFX and an old seat of Modo and Iclone pro pipeline. and of course Daz for Characters. I prefer to pay for my software once and squeeze every bit if value out of it for many years there after My C4D is very Old because I chose to forego Maxon's Annual"Maintainance" plan.

I understand perfectly ,I still have and use my softimage xsi 7,and my realflow and Maxwell render because if it isn't broken why fix it (and I didn't even pay for the nextlimits products they were given to me as a prize for a 3D contest ) but still won't upgrade them anyway until they stop working .

We still have MudBox or zBrush n there's 3D coat ,Blender. As always best to check them out for ya self .Compare galleries n gather info on forums. Give them a test run for your self.

All the app's are going to subscriptions. Incuding Houdini bigger versions. Houdini proceuduals is not like any other CGI app. Houdini is known for there proceuduals FX . There not known for the Characters support. There's no point in taking a NASCAR to NHRA.

I Don't known Maya LT but it's probably like prime C4D.

I know lifes all about $$$ .but if your CGI pipe line suxs ,Then your in flow of $$$ will sux also. If you show up to a race track with a peace of crap car ,don't exspect to win.last place purse is always $ 000.00

Info on some app's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BT4YSOjTas

I don't know everyones goals or budgets.

Not saying anyone else should but I personaly only mess with realtime engines. it's a game thing .Blender 2.8 will be released soon with eevee .So Blender made it on my radar.

but even if you don't care about eevee. Blender tools are way better then C4D 9 or any of the older app's. 2.8 UI finaly looks worthy.

RorrKonn posted at 2:23AM Fri, 09 November 2018 - #4339391

We still have MudBox or zBrush n there's 3D coat ,Blender. As always best to check them out for ya self .Compare galleries n gather info on forums. Give them a test run for your self.

All the app's are going to subscriptions. Incuding Houdini bigger versions. Houdini proceuduals is not like any other CGI app. Houdini is known for there proceuduals FX . There not known for the Characters support. There's no point in taking a NASCAR to NHRA.

I Don't known Maya LT but it's probably like prime C4D.

I know lifes all about $$$ .but if your CGI pipe line suxs ,Then your in flow of $$$ will sux also. If you show up to a race track with a peace of crap car ,don't exspect to win.last place purse is always $ 000.00

Info on some app's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BT4YSOjTas

I don't know everyones goals or budgets.

Not saying anyone else should but I personaly only mess with realtime engines. it's a game thing .Blender 2.8 will be released soon with eevee .So Blender made it on my radar.

but even if you don't care about eevee. Blender tools are way better then C4D 9 or any of the older app's. 2.8 UI finaly looks worthy.

Not likely, though that Blender will go to subscription. There's no point, since it's open source.