I recently came back to the world of content design after spending most of my time with 3DS Max. I took a long break from the content scene right about when Genesis came out and took over from Poser/Victoria 4. So I've never really rigged anything for Genesis 8. There's no real difference creating models for Genesis compared to V4 though. It's the rigging part once you imported your model(s) into DAZ Studio that confuses me.

The Transfer Utility transfer the bones from G8 to my meshes. But, unless you made a tight fitted piece of clothing (ie bathing suit, lingerie etc) you end up with a total mess in the weight mapping. But no worries, I'm used to weight mapping from rigging characters in 3DS Max. But this is where I fail epically.

After reading up a bit on Genesis I came to the conclusion that they use TriAx. Different weight maps for each axis. Which seems great. So, some YOLO and a couple of drinks later I decided to remove all the general weight maps that came from the Transfer Utility. I figured I'll paint weight maps for each axis all from scratch, on each body part. Imagine my surprise when I discover that weight maps for axes (X Rotation/Y Rotation/Z Rotation) has absolutely no effect at all. On any body part. The only weight map my models respond to is General Map.

So, I had a quick look at Genesis 8. Which actually only have general maps too (which must have been what was transferred to my models). There's no TriAx involved in Genesis. I'm probably doing something entirely wrong, but I can't get any axis mapping to work at all. And not only can you add three axis rotation maps (which has no effect, but still), you can also add a fourth General Map. Which is highly confusing. Isn't General Map supposed to be some kind of shared weight map for all axes? How can I then possibly have three different axis/rotation maps and a general map?!

I've developed a bunch of theories to this. Please fill me in here...

1. I'm plain stupid. The Transfer Utility does transfer perfectly weighted maps for any outfit, which require little to none adjustment. Only I'm to dumb to figure out how to check some secret checkboxes for it.

2. Yes, you almost always need to repaint the weight maps after a transfer. TriAx is preferred. Only, it's not as simple as to add separate maps for all three axes. You also need to somehow activate the figure for TriAx. And I'm too stupid to figure out how to do the latter.

3. Yes, you need to repaint weight maps. But TriAx is just conceptual at the moment, and has no effect on your models. You need to use general maps.

How do you guys rig your content for Genesis 8?!

Genesis and Genesis 2 used TriAx, Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 don't - which is why they have separate bones for bend and twist on some limbs, since the two need different maps. The type of rigging is set in the Tool Settings pane with the Node Weight Paintbrush tool active. The two newer figures also use a different skin binding method (Dual Quaternion for the new figures).

Yes, weight mapping may well need editing. You may also need custom JCMs (joint-controlled morphs, which are triggered automatically when a bone bends) and possibly custom bone added after the transfer.

Don't forget that DS now has cloth simulation, dForce, which makes additional options for clothing types possible.

RHaseltine posted at 4:39PM Mon, 16 September 2019 - #4362101

Genesis and Genesis 2 used TriAx, Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 don't - which is why they have separate bones for bend and twist on some limbs, since the two need different maps. The type of rigging is set in the Tool Settings pane with the Node Weight Paintbrush tool active. The two newer figures also use a different skin binding method (Dual Quaternion for the new figures).

Yes, weight mapping may well need editing. You may also need custom JCMs (joint-controlled morphs, which are triggered automatically when a bone bends) and possibly custom bone added after the transfer.

Don't forget that DS now has cloth simulation, dForce, which makes additional options for clothing types possible.

Ah, thank you! That kind of means, more or less, that TriAx maps are out of the question for content for G8. I suppose. They basically solved the blending issue by adding bones anyway. Which all of a sudden makes sense now.

I ran into a new issue though. I don't know if this is a bug, or intended. But whenever I paint weight maps, anything I paint 100% (all red) cannot be lowered/removed again. Which is very frustrating. Maybe a better example is "Fill Selected…". I can select any surface and set it to 0 - 99 % weight. Back and forth. But if I set (or paint) 100% the surface becomes permanently 100%. It can not be removed (Alt + Click). Or filled with any other value.

What am I doing wrong?!

Perhaps the algorithm doesn't know where to put the weight if there is none on another bone (unless you've turned it off all maps are normalised - the total weight on each vertex, for each map if using TriAx, is always 100%). I don't think it should lock like that, and in the past saving and restarting has fixed similar issues, but you might try painting a bit of weight on another map (e.g. the parent bone) as a "hint", then go back to the area you were wanting to edit.

RHaseltine posted at 11:38AM Tue, 17 September 2019 - #4362160

Perhaps the algorithm doesn't know where to put the weight if there is none on another bone (unless you've turned it off all maps are normalised - the total weight on each vertex, for each map if using TriAx, is always 100%). I don't think it should lock like that, and in the past saving and restarting has fixed similar issues, but you might try painting a bit of weight on another map (e.g. the parent bone) as a "hint", then go back to the area you were wanting to edit.

Ah, you were right. It's still a little confusing though how a setting of 0% won't have the same side effect, but it is what it is.

Either way, I don't think I have a clue what I'm doing. I'm trying to fix the arm pit of my model. The initial map was horrible and just stretched the polygons as if it was a stiff seam. I'm trying as hard as I can to paint more or less weight around the area. Or smooth the map. In this screenshot I actually started over and just used the smooth brush. I can't for the life of me understand why the arm pit bulges out like that.

I'm only using general maps. Actually the map that came with the Transfer Utility. I didn't convert to TriAx or anything. From what I understand then, there should be no bulge maps. Nor can I see any bulge maps in my model. Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong?!

There are JCMs there, which will be getting projected into the clothing (assuming you haven't applied a universal Rigidity Group), but I would not expect them to do anything so radical. Is that all one outfit, or is it several layered?

RHaseltine posted at 5:25PM Tue, 17 September 2019 - #4362281

There are JCMs there, which will be getting projected into the clothing (assuming you haven't applied a universal Rigidity Group), but I would not expect them to do anything so radical. Is that all one outfit, or is it several layered?

It's one outfit. With one layer of polygons. I could even upload the .obj if it would help.

I'm hardly an expert rigger, but someone else may have a suggestion.

I've seen that happen when trying to use the weight map brush fix polygon stretching. Personally, I've never been able get that approach to work. To minimize underarm distortions I try to make sure there are a similar number of polys in the clothing underarm, and they're positioned as closely as possible to the figure so the transfer utility rigs them properly.