yeah, i like IK.  That's why i don't use sasha much

PFE should be able to create IK chains if it's not working via Poser's hierarchy editor.

I'm hoping it will help me solve any valueOp issues I might run into as well.

Orion has a Pelvis between the hip and thighs.

IKs seem to work just fine.

A thigh rig setup with an extra horizontal bone to simulate the femur neck wouldn't serve any true purpose that I can think of in a human figure but would instead cause more issues with weight maps. And probably IK. Rig bones aren't exactly the same as real bones. For that matter I've yet to understand why some figures have an extra twist bone whose only purpose is twisting.

At one point he had tarsals in his feet, but he also has heel bones, and I couldn't see any benefit to the tarsals other than interfering with proper foot scaling. They didn't make for any more realistic posing and would just be another hassle to deal with in rigging shoes, so they got removed.

Will the hands and feet have Metatarsal for more fine and refined expression poses?  I find those very useful when creating poses as I like allot of expression in my poses using the hands and feet!  

The hands have carpals for each finger for better posing but I pulled the tarsals out of the feet because they didn't add anything that couldn't be achieved without them. Each toe has 2 joints and the main toe group can be twisted. Feet really don't move nearly as much as hands do. Toes can spread. I'll put pose control dials in to help with that. 

OK, thanks so much for the info!  :-)

I’m intrigued.  

PFE should be able to create IK chains if it's not working via Poser's hierarchy editor.

I'm hoping it will help me solve any valueOp issues I might run into as well.

Orion has a Pelvis between the hip and thighs.

IKs seem to work just fine.

You're putting a lot of faith into a file editor. You need to know the functions of the coding in the cr2 to solve a problem with PFE... Well in general, there's SOME automation, It doesn't magically do it for you, but yes it makes it easier to do something if you know the route. It's  similar to your "I have a Calculator response". If you don't know what to enter the calculator can't do it's job.

This is similar to one of your responses on the technical forum stating that you approached a problem with a tool called Binary Morph Editor, or pmd edit, by Ralf Sesseler (Dimension3D) also creator of PFE, when in fact the problem could not be addressed by the tool... similar to trying to use a blender as a microwave.

Setting up an IK chain is dead easy, drag and drop, as long as the involved actors will behave with said IK chain as expected. If for instance you introduce more bones there's more bends that will be effected by IK. And this might be something that can't be so easily be remedied via limits or constraints. My point. Typical Poser leg articulation is 3 points, thigh, shin, and foot... introduce an additional bone into the thigh and shin (say a bone purely for a twist) and you'll see what I mean.

"Orion has a Pelvis between the hip and thighs. IKs seem to work just fine."

That's because the root of the IK chain is the thigh, not the hip (pelvis in this case)... the hip or pelvis is moot.

Not trying to be a smart ass here, just pointing out the strangeness of your response. 

In light of many private observations I'll reserve any further conclusions for when the figure is actually distributed, which is looking like won't be for a while, an evaluation simply made by certain things you've stated. You're going to need knowledgeable assistance to expedite.

Ohhhs and Ahhhs over heavily mediated screencaps just aren't enough.

I'm not even gonna waste my time responding to any of that nonsense.

How about sit down.

We'll see

I am a little puzzled why the hostile response though. Peculiar. Everything I've stated is true, and is not in violation of TOS

Please, do tell what parts of anything I've said are nonsense. Go ahead.

Besides, my statements are a response to your response to a post I made addressing a comment made by another member about untypical rigging. Basically on your side.

I won't dwell on things you've stated that are actually "nonsense" it's just that the woo hoo folks don't know any better.

I wish you luck, and no animosity.

As far as sitting down? Everyone has been sitting down and waiting and giving sight unseen pats on the back for about what? 7 years? Please.

Guys, please don't get this thread locked.

randym77 posted at 9:06 PM Thu, 14 July 2022 - #4441305

Guys, please don't get this thread locked.

I've lost interest... he can ram his doll up his keister lol.

Folks, please keep the discussion civil, or I or one of the other mods WILL be forced to lock down this thread, and quite honestly, that's the last thing we want to do. Like most Poser users commenting and following this thread, I want to see how Orion and Venus turn out in the end. Folks like Shane deserve our support for their contributions to the Poser/3D community, so let's keep it that way, and thank you! 

--Anim8dtoon, Renderosity Moderator

Hope you are still working on Orion.  You've not posted in a little while Ambient! 

Yes.

I stopped updating the thread after I was baselessly accused of not knowing what I'm doing by someone who hasn't seen any more of the figure than what I've shown publicly so far, so that my responses aren't intentionally misrepresented yet again. 

Then mods threatened to lock it.

Anyway.

I'm working on transferring body morphs from the old mesh to the current mesh and creating injectable weight maps, because some body shapes require somewhat different joint zones and weightmapping than others.

I also added a bit more geometry in some areas that I felt needed it. His base resolution is currently 33.5K (all quads). I was trying to keep him at 30K or less but it wasn't producing the results I want in certain areas and I'm sick of modifying the mesh.

His base rigging is done. He needs a few jcms in the shoulders. I don't like how his shoulders bend in the muscular morph, they need to be more defined, but I'm trying to get weight maps to accomplish most of that without relying so much on jcms. They are still needed for definition but the fewer the better.

And his textures are still a WIP. There's some misalignment in a few places.

I have several body morphs I'm in the process of working into the rigging, mostly proportion adjustment morphs but some of them change his appearance quite a bit.

Hey, glad to see you back and making progress.  

Yay! And may I add, woo hoo! Looking good.

Those shoulders right now look better than most male figures I've seen in the past decade. Proportions are right for male body, he has a chest (though on the second figure those pecs are awfully flexed), and I like the hands a lot. Something is bothering me about the feet in frontal view, not sure why, but in the grand scheme of things, I'd grab this figure in a heartbeat, especially if someone provided clothing conversion script/mode/rig for it.

Rhia474 posted at 7:32 PM Sun, 24 July 2022 - #4441785

Those shoulders right now look better than most male figures I've seen in the past decade. Proportions are right for male body, he has a chest (though on the second figure those pecs are awfully flexed), and I like the hands a lot. Something is bothering me about the feet in frontal view, not sure why, but in the grand scheme of things, I'd grab this figure in a heartbeat, especially if someone provided clothing conversion script/mode/rig for it.

Yeah, I have some questions about his feet too, I'm thinkin maybe they're too tall. Going to do some adjustments and see. But they'll have optional scaling and morphs too. That was already set up in the previous version of him but I have to redo them for this one. He got a bit of a shaping/proportions resculpt since the original images this thread launched with.

I'll work on some sort of solution for clothing conversion at a later point. He'll have an included dev kit. I may even make an FBM for M4 to help with fitting. If there's enough interest, some of the other figures might get one too.

But with a few minutes spent on repositioning and scaling and a quick trip through the fitting room I got M4's basic T to fit him decently.

I don't have much M4 content installed currently so this was just a quick test. I'll test on something a bit more complex later on.

It took me longer to locate the textures for it than it did to fit it to him.

He's shorter than M4 and has a slighter default build.

He also will have several basic clothing pieces included and I have a body suit in the works.

I consider doing a Dusk SE morph as he's old news now  and had quite a nice library of clothing.  With Dawn 2.0 on the horizon and Dusk 2.0 will probably follow in 6 months more out folks will be clamoring for a way to convert clothing from older Dusk to newer one but why not to your figure, which looks OUTSTANDING!  

A M4 to Orion clothing fit morph would be amazing. But your image already gives me hope, it seems fitting room plus percentage scaling would work also.

I think you are right about the height of the feet. *stares at her husband's feet until he squirms*

The rise is less steep, achieving a more pronounced ankle and mire protruding ankle bone.

The foot is a tad too hollow. You normally do not see light across under a foot when the person's weight is on it.

In idea if the feet have metatarsals, but if he has most likely rotating the foot a tad positive Xand the metatarsals a tad negaive X would make them more narural.

He looks very real to me.

 Maybe it is just the height above the floor and a little flattening of the sole and y-translation will do for this barefoot pose.

I can not comment on the feet as I have big ole Neanderthal feet.  The might be a smidge to bulky from top of feet to bottom but that's all I can really see.  

His foot is raised slightly above the floor in that pose with a 2 degree bend, which I didn't notice until I looked at the renders closer. Because of the rounded shapes on the bottom it can look like its on the floor properly in preview and I can't always tell until rendered. I usually try to adjust the figure so that the feet bottoms are just barely penetrating the ground plane but I didn't think to do it with that render, it was just a quicky to show the latest version. So I'm going to do some flattening morphs for bare foot standing poses to help mitigate that sort of thing. Would be nice if there was a way to automate it with collision detection but I don't think there currently is. At least not without some sort of script. But I agree, the top rise, whatever it's technical name is, is probably a bit too high. People's feet are about as unique as fingerprints, or at least ears and eyes. Their shapes are molded over years of supporting body weight, combined with what type of shoes they wear, if any, and how they walk, etc. Most references look more than a bit deformed to me, so it can be tricky to find decent ones.

I spent some time reshaping them a bit, and I adjusted the pose so that it is definitely on the floor. The previous version (that I rendered above) is on the left here, and the new one is on the right. Changes were subtle enough not to affect rigging that I've found, and I think they look a bit better now. But if they don't then tell me.

Looks really good now.  Like it better!  

Hey, looks good to me.

I spent some time reshaping them a bit, and I adjusted the pose so that it is definitely on the floor. The previous version (that I rendered above) is on the left here, and the new one is on the right. Changes were subtle enough not to affect rigging that I've found, and I think they look a bit better now. But if they don't then tell me.

Yes, i think the one on the right looks a bit more natural.

Definitely better

Sorry for not updating the last few days.

My mom has been in ICU for the last week and things aren't looking good. Hard to focus on anything else right now.

This is not a priority - your mom is.

Our thoughts are with you.

I'll second @ssgbryan's comment.  This can wait, so take as much time as you need to, and spend it with your mom.

Wow, I’m sorry to hear that.  Will be sending you 🙏🏼 for strength.

Bless you, my friend, take care of your mom and yourself.

Prayers for your mom Shane. 🙏🏼

Laurie

Mom first, the rest may wait 🙏🏼