End of weekend update, now with some weight-mapped bulges added to the mix. Not quite done weight-mapping the thigh, but getting close, I think. If she ends up bending about as well as Toni 1.2 with just the weight-maps, that would be pretty cool. And obviously some JCMs can always be added later on for fine-tuning the shapes.

Do people have preferences when it comes to eye rigs? Ideally, I'd like to have something like an "eyes" actor that is a child of the head and that the individual eyes are children of, so that I could rotate or point "eyes" and have the individual eyes follow its direction (but not change positions, obviously). But I'm not sure how easy or hard that would be to implement, and what other desirable things it would break. Not super-important in the end, but while I'm making breaking changes ...

I'm not sure what you mean. Like an eye target? Those things suck. I don't use point at either. You always end up with an eyeball jacked into the lacrimal. Plus to really get point at to work properly you need to dial back the point at strength. I just use an ERC or dependency dial Eyes Rotate (up down, sideside, crossed) for synced. Just my prefs though.

As far as difficulty setting it up? that's a good one. I'd have to look at Apollo or Skye to figure out the set up... I don't think I have either installed. Poor cross eyed Skye, although still very much a cutie pie, is marooned on a DVD somewhere in my memorabilia sack. Apollo, with his wee dainty hands, is in somebody's Google drive somewhere with a forum buried link I imagine. WandW I think. I think Chocolate's Haru might have a target also, I'll look tomorrow.

I love point at for making the character look into the camera. Sometimes I apply it to the head, sometimes to the eyes. Very difficult to achieve by hand, I find. Sure, it doesn't work for all angles, so when it acts up, I just turn it off.

With Antonia's eyes now directed straight forward, pointing them at the camera didn't work initially. Antonia always seemed cross-eyed. But I just figured it out. I simply move the joint end points inward a bit, seeing as point at works by pointing the line from the joint center to the end point at the target object, and I'm back to her old point-at awesomeness.

Other than that, some dials for eyes up-down and left-right like Toni 1.2 has them are probably sufficient.

odf posted at 5:12 AM Sun, 11 September 2022 - #4444295

I love point at for making the character look into the camera. Sometimes I apply it to the head, sometimes to the eyes. Very difficult to achieve by hand, I find. Sure, it doesn't work for all angles, so when it acts up, I just turn it off.

With Antonia's eyes now directed straight forward, pointing them at the camera didn't work initially. Antonia always seemed cross-eyed. But I just figured it out. I simply move the joint end points inward a bit, seeing as point at works by pointing the line from the joint center to the end point at the target object, and I'm back to her old point-at awesomeness.

Other than that, some dials for eyes up-down and left-right like Toni 1.2 has them are probably sufficient.

Since you summarily dismissed the eye target topic after positing it, I won't bother looking :)

It says this about point at in 'secrets of figure creation'  so you are correct...

In the meantime, I no longer point "Point At" directly at the camera. I point it at an empty "Grouping" object (you can also use a prop, but that has some disadvantages - for example, the proplist is usually cluttered).

The advantage is that you can finetune much better (just move the grouping object a bit around). And camera changes are easier. If you want the typical behavior, just make the grouping the child of the desired camera. Then you have the advantages of both methods :)

Just my two cents: to be sure that the eye are targeting the cam, I use the direct manipulation tool:

Since you summarily dismissed the eye target topic after positing it, I won't bother looking :)

Grouping objects, a direct manipulation tool? What is this wizardry? :-)

After some tweaking, I'm now pretty happy with the front views for the thigh rotations, so on to the back. Is the butt crack still too long?

Looking good.

I don't think it's too long. I have been comparing it to some images on google that are close to that pose, and no, it's not too long.

odf posted at 5:15 PM Sun, 11 September 2022 - #4444327

Grouping objects, a direct manipulation tool? What is this wizardry? :-)

https://www.posersoftware.com/documentation/12/Poser_Reference_Manual/BuildingScenes/Posing/Direct_Manipulation.htm

odf posted at 5:15 PM Sun, 11 September 2022 - #4444327

Grouping objects, a direct manipulation tool? What is this wizardry? :-)

http://www.posersoftware.com/documentation/12/Poser_Reference_Manual/BuildingScenes/Props/Grouping_Objects.htm

https://www.posersoftware.com/documentation/12/Poser_Reference_Manual/BuildingScenes/Posing/Direct_Manipulation.htm

I don't think it's too long. I have been comparing it to some images on google that are close to that pose, and no, it's not too long.

Thanks everyone for reassuring me about an important topic. Now why do I feel a sudden urge to make a pair of jeans for Antonia and render her with a plumber's cleavage?

Antonia 1.3 check list.

Done:

- Rig and weight-map the jaw.

- Improve expression morphs, particularly the smile and squint.

- Replace the eyes with ones that subdivide and render better.

- Remove poles from the breast meshes.

- Improve the private parts: denser geometry and better edge loops.

- Remove separate brow and toe cap geometries.

- Change the thigh rigging from sphere zones plus JCMs to weight-mapped.

- Fix shoulder JCMs after transferring from Antonia 1.2.

- Remove empty morph channels.

Remaining:

- Rig and weight-map the tongue.

- Eliminate the magic "One" channel from the body (use keyed dependencies instead for knee JCMs and hand/foot scaling).

- Set up some convenient sliders for driving expression morphs.

- Decide which existing morphs to include in the base figure and do the converting and set-up.

- Make at least two realistic vulva morphs, one "innie" and one "outie."

- Make a "genitals gone" morph. (?)

- Decide what else to include in the release - morphs, poses, other?

As these things go, more items will likely be added to the "remaining" list as I go. If anything crucial comes to mind, let me know. Reminder: I'm not aiming at completeness for now, just a solid base that can be improved and extended with injection poses and such.

Thanks everyone for reassuring me about an important topic. Now why do I feel a sudden urge to make a pair of jeans for Antonia and render her with a plumber's cleavage?

Either some clothing, or ability to convert existing clothing. I really don't get the vulva morphs being so high on your list, but that's maybe just me. Good luck!

Rhia474 posted at 6:11 PM Thu, 15 September 2022 - #4444547

Either some clothing, or ability to convert existing clothing. I really don't get the vulva morphs being so high on your list, but that's maybe just me. Good luck!

Clothing is one of the areas where my much repeated "I'm not a real content creator" disclaimer applies. If a feature requires significant effort, and I'm not going to use it myself, I won't make it.

There's a chance that the CrossDresser plugin for Antonia will still work on 1.3, but since I don't have CrossDresser and don't know how it works, I really couldn't tell. I've been careful to not change her base shape too much, but the thighs now bent a bit differently, so that could be a problem.

With the Toni texture, her vulva looks like a flesh wound, so at the very least I need a morph that pulls the outer labia together. As for the "outie," that's more a matter of testing if the new geometry is sufficient to get some nice shapes there. Doesn't have to be included in the base figure but might as well.

It's mostly that I don't want to have to put panties on her just because she looks like a Barbie doll down there, or worse.

Incidentally, I think it wouldn't be too hard to retrofit the new eyes and expressions in Antonia 1.3 to Antonia WM, which might be a better base for dressed characters. From my limited personal experience, she seems to behave very nicely in the fitting room. I wouldn't mind making the injection pose and writing some docs for the conversion if anyone's interested, but I won't volunteer to maintain a WM/1.x hybrid going forward.

LOL, yep, we do have different aesthetics. but that's perfectly OK. It is just a repeated concern I see that a new figure doesn't do well unless it has content for it. I mean, it may do well with those who can make clothing or those who can use dynamic pieces, or who can use the Fitting room  (or those who don't even put clothes on their dolls) fine. On the other hand, it always depends on what YOU, the creator want the market to be.

In light of past efforts by vastly more talented and determined artists and creators than me to make Antonia popular, I can say with confidence that I have no ambitions whatsoever in that direction. For all intents and purposes, there is no market for Antonia, and I'm fine with that.

And that's fine too. For what its worth, I really enjoyed looking art this thread through the years and seeing the incredible talent that went into this. Yes, yours. :) I really hope people appreciate what you're creating here.

Aw thanks, too kind! I know that at least a handful of people appreciate my work, and for me, that's enough. Which is not to say that there's anything wrong with going for a broader appeal.

After twenty minutes in the fitting room and joint editor, I came up with this. So, I daresay Antonia 1.3 will have *something* to wear, even if I can't guarantee it will be very stylish. Also, the quality of her clothing will probably improve once she's fully weight-mapped.

When things keep developing in the direction they are moving now she may have tons of stuff to wear. 

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2968439/fun-with-jinny-and-antonia

Jinny/Connect geometry export is still in the pipeline ATM.

CLO-Connect Forgot to add: now offers 5440 garment models, including 1100 or so free download.

REALLY LATE TO THE GAME HERE AND OUT OF POSER USE SINCE COVID LOCK DOWN WHEN MY RENDERING COMPUTER DIED. SURPRISED TO SEE FAMILIAR NAMES HERE AND MANY NEW ONES TOO...hi all!

Thinking of getting back into Poser but need new rendering computer. So it is fun seeing the rebirth rebuilding (of sorts) of Antonia.

Are the morphs/fixes discussed and pictured in this thread available somewhere for when I do finally dip my ftte back into the Poser stream?

Even if I rarely write something in this thread, as I'm not competent, I really appreciate the energy and the efforts you put in this development, and the result is... wow

V4AMP

Like I said I could make a much better version now, but this one seemed to get a lot of downloads. Not very pleased with the results in hindsight but it was a one off forum request.

YEAH AND I REQUESTED IT AND LOVED IT THANKS. THE NICE THING ABOUT YOURS IS ABILITY TO ADD ALL V4 MORPHS WHICH THE OTHER GUY'S AMPUTEE PACKAGE CAN NOT...NEITHER FOR V4 OR M4!!! LOVED WORKING WITH THIS AMPUTEE RIG.

READDRESS PLEASE. V4 AND ANTONIA AND DO NOT FORGET THE GUYS M4 ESPECIALLY....PLEASE!  :)

***BTW..NOT SHOUTING DAMN CAPS KEY SHORTING AND NO MORE MONEY TO FIX IT NOW!.......SORRY!  :(

shante posted at 2:55 PM Fri, 16 September 2022 - #4444600

REALLY LATE TO THE GAME HERE AND OUT OF POSER USE SINCE COVID LOCK DOWN WHEN MY RENDERING COMPUTER DIED. SURPRISED TO SEE FAMILIAR NAMES HERE AND MANY NEW ONES TOO...hi all!

Thinking of getting back into Poser but need new rendering computer. So it is fun seeing the rebirth rebuilding (of sorts) of Antonia.

Are the morphs/fixes discussed and pictured in this thread available somewhere for when I do finally dip my ftte back into the Poser stream?

The upgraded Antonia is not available just yet but will be.

I'm getting really excited about this. 

IMO that solely depend on her intended use:

If she's meant to be "just" a freebie vanity project, then she only has to please her creator and everything else is just a bonus.

I always say, if I share something and at least one other person enjoys my stuff, then everything's OK.

*

But if she would have been intentionally created (or choosen) as "THE FACE OF POSER" , (Like what Vicky/G8 is to Studio), then the expectations would be of course (rightfully) a lot higher.

(And THAT is why I get so riled up over La Femme's shortcomings. If she'd just stayed any other freebie, I wouldn't have said a peep. But as long as people peddle her as exemplary for what Poser is capeable of, I feel oblidged to say, No, Poser can do a lot better than that.)

*

But of course, it is always nice if your own creations are also liked by others, and if you want that, then "generic beauty" is usually king.

Lots of pre-made morphs are of course also great. (That's exactly why I chose the DAZ Gen3 figures as my "base". And why I prefer edgeloops. It is much easier for the "Average Joe" to spin a dial than to create your own HD morphs)

*

ANYWAY...

Here's a cute "button nose" variation of my teen morph:

This is of course just "eyeballing" it, trying not to loose the "Antonia-ness" completely.

Speaking of morphs, to get that expression I had to dial some of here expression morphs to negative values.

Unfortunately negative values are all set to 0 by default. (Probably to keep users from getting confused)

Still, it would be helpfull in future iterations to at least allow some negative values)

I like more of a natural look for my clothing racks. Less silicone. Also with rather low poly models like this one:

Shante, please check the nudity box when posting nudes, I went ahead and checked it for you on the above post. 

ᴛɪɴʏ ᴄᴀᴘs ʟᴏᴄᴋ

odf posted at 4:20 AM Mon, 12 September 2022 - #4444348

After some tweaking, I'm now pretty happy with the front views for the thigh rotations, so on to the back. Is the butt crack still too long?

BEHIND.....AND ON THE EYES I USED POINT AT ALL THE TIME  NOT ONLY AS A GROUP AS WELL AS INDIVIDUAL EYE POSING

odf posted at 4:20 AM Mon, 12 September 2022 - #4444348

After some tweaking, I'm now pretty happy with the front views for the thigh rotations, so on to the back. Is the butt crack still too long?

ANY WAY OF SEPERATING BUTTOCKS AND SPREADING CRACK BECAUSE THAT DOES HAPPEN IN THESE POSES TO MY OPINION FROM PERSONAL OBSERVATION.....AND YES CRACK STILL SEEMS A BIT LONG/HIGH WHEN SEEN FROM

BEHIND.....AND ON THE EYES I USED POINT AT ALL THE TIME  NOT ONLY AS A GROUP AS WELL AS INDIVIDUAL EYE POSING

ᴛɪɴʏ ᴄᴀᴘs ʟᴏᴄᴋ

BaCk WhEn AoL wAs A tHiNg I uSeD tO hAvE mY nAmE tYpEd OuT lIkE tHiS cAuSe I tHoUgHt It LoOkEd CoOl I wAs 13 At ThE tImE tHoUgH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZAWDwtt1WY

Close to finished with the rigging and clean-ups. The tongue WMs could use a little more work, so I might spend another hour or two on that, but not much more. I'm getting the feeling that a third tongue actor wouldn't hurt, but honestly, I don't really feel like getting that fancy right now.

Two more items for the to-do list, though:

- Change my Superfly materials to using PhysicalSurface, so (hopefully) they will also work in P11 and show up in the preview.

- Fix a strange issue with the pose symmetry functions where if I apply a function such as, say, switch left and right, to the arms, it is also applied to the legs, but not vice versa.

Then it's time to decide things such as whether to make the base figure load with textures and materials or not, and whether to include any preloaded morphs other than the JCMs. My gut feeling says yes to materials, but no to preloaded morphs. I might even decide not to include any additional content in the original release and instead create separate packages later. That way I can get something out quickly for people to play with, without having to rush any extras. Besides, most existing content for Antonia 1.2 should be fairly easy to convert to 1.3.

Separate Packages is a good choice.

And I think it would be important that "Antonia 1.3" gets as early as possible a website that can last as long as possible.

odf posted at 3:46 AM Sun, 18 September 2022 - #4444691

Besides, most existing content for Antonia 1.2 should be fairly easy to convert to 1.3.

Thanks.

RedPhantom posted at 4:57 PM Sat, 17 September 2022 - #4444678

you might also try the on-screen keyboard to help with some of the keyboard issues.

AND THOUGH TOO BIG TO ALLOW LAPTOP PORTABILITY WORKS FOR MY NEEDS FOR A BIT LONGER BUT ITS CAP LOCK KEY IS STICKY OR SOMETHING. PROBABLY SHOULD INVEST IN A NEW SYSTEM BUT THE IDEA OF GIVING THE TRAITOROUS APPLE INC. ANY MORE OF MY "CONSERVATIVE" MONEY MAKES ME CRINGE. I HATE HOW POLITICS HAS INVADED MY SIMPLE SENSIBILITIES TO WHERE EVERYTHING IS ABOUT IT. I REALLY MISS MY FAMILY AND JUST DOING MY ARTWORK WITHOUT ALL THAT POLITICAL BS!   :(

**SORRY FOR THE OT BS NO MORE I PROMISE.....

odf posted at 3:46 AM Sun, 18 September 2022 - #4444691

Besides, most existing content for Antonia 1.2 should be fairly easy to convert to 1.3.

So, will AP 1.3 be backwards compatible.  Say if I had created some morphs from version 1.2, will it work with 1.3?

Thanks.