Let new users know what you know now that you did not know when you first started using Poser.

I'll go first. When I first started, I had no idea what conforming was, that it was a way for clothing to follow a pose and I was adding the pose to the clothes and lining it up with the figure

I also didn't know how to use the morph brush. It took me a while to understand that the reason why the brush made a mess of things was the magnitude was too high. Once it got through my thick skull that magnitude meant strength, and I started adjusting it, I found the brush worked well and mow I can't live without it.

Does anyone else have any tips?

I had p3, but got serious with p4, i did not know you had to render the scene lol.

That does make it hard to get good images. I didn't start until Poser 6. I'd heard about it here. There was plenty of talk about rendering. Not that I understood most of it.

Yeah, that is true, although i was 13 back then. I didnt join Poser forum online/rosity  back then because i thought you had to pay haha. So i had to figure stuff out myself.

Many things, I'm sure, but at the moment I can't think of any that were relevant for Poser 4 and are still relevant now. For example, I did not know that the default shadow map resolution was way too small for most purposes, but then I haven't used a shadow map in eons.

I started with Poser Artist (P4 ?) and was at zero level.  I applied the template map instead of the texture map to a pair of trousers. That was how noob I was.

I started in the 3D world using Bryce. Lot of fun but I was missing humans, so I started with Poser, as Daz didn't had its Studio back then (and I couldn't even get my hands on it once they started but that's another story)

So to sum up what I learn: it's faster to list what I knew from the 3D world: how to start Poser. Everything else is the result of learning each part of this world, one step at a time.
The most important aspect: keep having pleasure, even if you don't understand immediately:
- one day you will understand
- what you learn with pleasure stays forever in your mind

I think I started with a free version of Poser 4 which was on one of those CD/DVDs giveaways on those expensive 3D magazines of the time.  I had a play and was not impressed at all and wondered why so many people wanted pictures of those strange wooden artist posing models.  Later on I fell across a few forums and I could see what people were doing with it and I had another go.  For the first few weeks all the renders I produced were black featureless and oblong.  How was I to know you needed lights, hang on I have added lights and still have a grey featureless square, it took a while for me to discover that cameras can see through walls in preview but not when rendering.  

All of that was in late 2000 and it took six years to be able to produce something like this, if I was lucky and i had the money to buy something of this quality.

Nearly 17 years on I get something like this, created by a lot of commercial content and dial spinning but at least the figure is a one off.  That said most my renders but still more by luck than skill and usually only after numerous failures.

I started with Poser 3 ... didn't know that you should move figures by the "body" and not the "hip" until P6.  Head slap!!

That makes posing  and moving difficult lol

I still sometimes move by the hip accidentally. Then I try to rotate the body and it's all over the place.

I also remember breaking one of my figures so that her legs were about three times as long and came to a very sharp point and my first attempt at dynamic clothing which resulted in a nude figure and a pool of clothing at it's feet.

I do wonder sometimes just where I would be today if it had not been for the vibrant and helpful forums of the time, many of which are sadly lost to today's new comers.

My tip is for using wind force. It's easy...as long as you increase the range.

For some reason it comes in with a range of 0.1. That is generally too short to actually reach your figure's clothing or hair. I thought it didn't work, and gave up the first time I tried it.

Increase the range. Make sure those lines are a long enough to actually interact with the hair or clothing you want to flutter in the breeze.

randym77 posted at 1:20 AM Wed, 3 May 2023 - #4464097

My tip is for using wind force. It's easy...as long as you increase the range.

For some reason it comes in with a range of 0.1. That is generally too short to actually reach your figure's clothing or hair. I thought it didn't work, and gave up the first time I tried it.

Increase the range. Make sure those lines are a long enough to actually interact with the hair or clothing you want to flutter in the breeze.

Good tip, I will try and remember that.

Yeah, wind force can be frustrating. The labels aren't very intuitive IMHO. I have to look at the manual each time I want to use it. Maybe if I used it more, I'd remember it.

When I was first learning Poser I was a disaster. LOL I loaded a figure and the clothing..did not conform as I didn't know what I was doing. Applied the pose, to the clothes and not the figure and the clothes hit the floor. I cried for an hour I was so frustrated. Then a fellow user explained what I had done wrong. 

I have been using Poser for years and still learning every day. I think taking the time to watch the tutorials that were available is finally how I got over the learning curve. Or at least I could dress a figure and pose her.

I only had a limited time to play back then and I would spend it all just trying to find the character and the skin texture and the hair and all of that. I didn't really understand the Library structure and then they couldn't call the product the same across all the folders. Now I've got a good idea where to look for things. Plus I've organized. And new products seem to be put thing in more sensible places. Like all L'Homme's stuff mostly goes under his header. Not so with older products. Mike 4's clothing were not under Mike's clothing. They were all over the place under Character. And textures for the clothing were under Pose, but sometimes not even called what the original product was called. And everybody wanted their product to come to the top of the list.

I started with Poser 3, in a nice big shiny cardboard box. At that time, my PC has about the same power as the cardboard box had.

But it wasn't until Poser 6 and a better PC that I really started using it. Or rather, wrestling with it.

1. The UI was and is great, but render times were the big problem back then. I should have spent more time learning how to make them a bit faster for my puny PC, rather than copying a render preset from someone else and hoping for the best. But that's all in the past now. It's fast, on a Xeon workstation that would have cost me $11,000 in 2010 - but which could be had for peanuts refurbished in 2019.

2. Sketch. This is related to the render times. I ignored this render engine for years, because I didn't know how to stop it from rendering Sketch to the whole scene. Very slow and icky. But once you know how to stop it from also rendering into the background, and can break free of the stock presets, then it's an amazing tool. Also, it can be made really fast. Like, 10 seconds fast at 1,800px.

3. Also for Sketch rendering. It took me a long time to figure out that the coverage and presets are render-size dependent. Create a custom preset for 1,800px, it's not going to work as intended at 3,600px. When you save a custom preset you need to name it with the settings (e.g. on_smooth_shaded_bw_comicbook_1800px)

4. It took me a very long time to get to a Firefly "line-art only" render preset that cured "the speckles" problem. Solution: use a script to auto-disconnect all the bump maps. 98% of the speckles are then gone, and you have a line render you can then use with Photoshop filters to make it look more hand-drawn.

5. The need to systematically build a Library, from base figures and vital morph packs upward. So that the vital required items are all there, so you're not such when someone produces a product that needs X base + Y figure + Z base-morphs + the ABC morphs and a texture from CBA. Scattergun collecting can come later. Build the basic 'matrix' of base figures, morphs and must have 'core content' first, and save a lot of time later.

6. Related to to this is the need to grab stuff when you see it, as content and scripts become unavailable over time but often we can still run the software that they require (e.g. Poser 2014) alongside P11 / P13. or, you realise that K4 can actually be turned into a great series of goblins and imps, but that the stuff needed to do that was made decades ago and is hard to find or even gone. Freebies and 'fits' on small sites are also especially prone to vanish.

7. I never knew until very recently that you can invoke a script with a custom keyboard shortcut. Simply rename the script my-amazing-script###Alt+Z.py and make sure it's in the main ScriptsMenu folder.

8. OpenGL has a hard limit on the number of Preview lights in a scene, with the number depending on the power of your PC.  Also, in a fresh install of Poser you need to go into Preferences, to prevent a light preset adding the lights to the existing set (rather than replacing the current lights). It's still the default Poser behaviour that lights just accumulate in the preview scene as you try out new light presets. Not a great experience for new users.

9. XA Toolbar and Scene Toy are a vital add-ons for Poser 11. I don't think I realised this until P11, especially XA.

10. Vue took a long time to become viable for me, in terms of its usability and speed. Vue actually works very easily with Poser, still does, and has exports that effectively replace the old PoserFusion exporters.

11. Backup and port over properly when moving to a new version of Poser. Poser keeps stuff all over the place on your PC. This is especially important when moving to a new PC, as otherwise stuff like custom render presets will be lost.

12. Python is fun. Sometimes.

Poser 3 and its requirements... 

I fell into Poser (#3 cover-disk) because my 'home design' package could not handle more than un-rigged, minimal-poly, Medieval-ish 3DS 'figures'. 

But, I could export a room and its Medieval-ish props to Poser_4, put those Medieval-ish figures in the background, supplement with posed P3/P4 people 'doing stuff'...

For 'reasons', that home-design package was not re-compiled to 32/64 bit, but replaced by a less 'friendly' package that was not back-compatible...
( IIRC, company 'fell out' with the coding team they'd licensed original '3D Core' from, bought in all-new...)
Ouch...

But, my habit of porting 'fun stuff' from other formats was set. Routes currently available are...
XPS via free XNA Posing Studio => OBJ+MTL props, or rigged .MESH.ASCII, then latter via free Noesis to Poser-compatible FBX.
PMX props via free PMX Editor => OBJ+MTL
PMX rigged via TrueBones ($$) utility to Poser-compatible FBX. Note this v1 (Beta ?) only ports hues, not texture calls, which must be hand-loaded...
SFM VTF textures via free Noesis to eg PNG or JPG
SFM MDL models via free Noesis to un-textured OBJ or FBX. Textures must be hand-loaded.

DS props via DSF Tools for low-ish poly or DS' migraine-inducing UI for 'big stuff' to OBJ+MTL.
DS figures to rigged FBX... Um, one, once: Kalea7 as proof of concept, but migraine lasted all next day...
Ouch...

I'd love to use the Preview and Sketch modes more, but I know nothing about them. Would pay for presets if they were for sale.

Randy, your interest in good Poser Sketch render presets might be cured by the end of the summer. I keep meaning to produce a pack of my best custom presets, for sale on Renderosity. But it also means producing a big PDF with demos, which is going to be time-consuming (each presets needs instructions on the display mode / render-size / Comic Book settings etc, that it's intended to work best with).

Preview is exactly the scene you see in the usual OpenGL Viewport, only you render it out to a file. It's also where the real-time Comic-Book filtering and line-art happens, which was introduced in Poser 11. Which reminds me of another thing that newbies need to know - there's a free script which makes all the clutter (lights etc) invisible in Preview, without actually turning them off. You then get a nice clean render for use in comics etc. Click the script again, and it toggles them back on again. It's available for P11 and P12. Having toggle scripts like this, on a 'one-click button' in the UI, is why the XA Toolbar addon is important to have.

HartyBart posted at 4:44 AM Fri, 5 May 2023 - #4464336

Where are these scripts. that remove bump maps, remove clutter, etc.?

Preview never looks as good for me as it does when other people do it. The black lines end up ugly. Maybe I need different lighting? Or maybe people touch it up in Photoshop?

Been around since the first Poser, and honestly... Only found out like last month that you can alt+click a dial to turn it back to default/zeroed. D'uh, thanks Nerd3d for that one LMAO! Been super helpful when making stuff.

randym77 posted at 1:39 PM Fri, 5 May 2023 - #4464354

Where are these scripts. that remove bump maps, remove clutter, etc.?

Poser 12: "Python script to disconnect all bump maps - P12" free at ShareCG.

Poser 11: "Simple Python script to disconnect all bump maps" free at ShareCG.

Render preset: "Poser - a toon outlines render preset for Firefly" free on ShareCG. (Use the above scripts with this).

Poser 12: "Poser 12 helper scripts and perma-palette" free at ShareCG (a set, has "Remove Wires in Preview", toggle light wireframes in Preview, without turning lights off - "Remove Wires" also works in Poser 11).

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 8:07 PM Sat, 6 May 2023 - #4464495

Been around since the first Poser, and honestly... Only found out like last month that you can alt+click a dial to turn it back to default/zeroed. D'uh, thanks Nerd3d for that one LMAO! Been super helpful when making stuff.

I didn't know that, but I know in Poser 13, you can click on those green dots that show a dial has been moved and it will put it back to default.

HartyBart posted at 5:08 AM Sun, 7 May 2023 - #4464525

randym77 posted at 1:39 PM Fri, 5 May 2023 - #4464354

Where are these scripts. that remove bump maps, remove clutter, etc.?

Poser 12: "Python script to disconnect all bump maps - P12" free at ShareCG.

Poser 11: "Simple Python script to disconnect all bump maps" free at ShareCG.

Render preset: "Poser - a toon outlines render preset for Firefly" free on ShareCG. (Use the above scripts with this).

Poser 12: "Poser 12 helper scripts and perma-palette" free at ShareCG (a set, has "Remove Wires in Preview", toggle light wireframes in Preview, without turning lights off - "Remove Wires" also works in Poser 11).

Thank you!!! Those look very useful indeed.

RandyM, somewhere I have a script in which I tried to make non-rendering all possible forms of scene/stage clutter before doing a real-time Preview render (e.g the 'purple ball at the character's feet' that can show up in certain circumstances). I can dig that out if you want, but it'll be for Poser 11. I really only need the lights toggle, so I never polished and released the script.

Rather than de-rail this thread... if you want further advice on the real-time Comic Book Preview, Sketch, and the Firefly lines-only render (and subsequent Photoshop filtering to humanise the lines in DAP or G'MIC etc), then start a new threat somewhere and I'll get on it. It's pity we don't have a 'Comic-book & Sketch' sub-forum on Renderosity. But I guess a new thread could liven up the 'Mixed Medium' forum.

I've learned that using Poser can be a major exercise in frustration, unless you're prepared to learn absolutely everything about it... and even then, it's probably just as frustrating.

And I really can't be bothered to learn everything.  So here we are.  :)

Yes, that's a good point, SamT. One point I forgot to mention that there are excellent video tutorial series. Those would have been so useful to have, back in the day. I think we had to wait until Poser 2014 for a really good set of video tutorials, and they were expensive to get on a DVD. Before that it was mostly expensive books the size of telephone directories (most of which are now on the Internet Archive). Useful, and still useful, but not as good as well-made videos for most people. The official video set is now free and on YouTube - search "Learning Poser Pro 11".

HartyBart posted at 5:13 AM Tue, 9 May 2023 - #4464770

Yes, that's a good point, SamT. One point I forgot to mention that there are excellent video tutorial series. Those would have been so useful to have, back in the day. I think we had to wait until Poser 2014 for a really good set of video tutorials, and they were expensive to get on a DVD. Before that it was mostly expensive books the size of telephone directories (most of which are now on the Internet Archive). Useful, and still useful, but not as good as well-made videos for most people. The official video set is now free and on YouTube - search "Learning Poser Pro 11".

I purchased most of the expensive books around the time, certainly for Poser Five and Six and if my memory serves me well, a tutorial on DVD for Poser 8.

In my case, I found quite interesting information about light and its mechanisms in a PDF shared by Piersyf on ShareCG, at least for those like me without specific knowledge when it comes to photography and lighting.

Actually, Piersyf has 4 items shared, so you will find the second edition, 5 years old, quite easily.
Quite a lot of theory, but also enough examples.

HartyBart posted at 5:13 AM Tue, 9 May 2023 - #4464770

Yes, that's a good point, SamT. One point I forgot to mention that there are excellent video tutorial series. Those would have been so useful to have, back in the day. I think we had to wait until Poser 2014 for a really good set of video tutorials, and they were expensive to get on a DVD. Before that it was mostly expensive books the size of telephone directories (most of which are now on the Internet Archive). Useful, and still useful, but not as good as well-made videos for most people. The official video set is now free and on YouTube - search "Learning Poser Pro 11".

All good but I honestly do not have the patience to watch tutorial videos.  The older I get, the more impatient I become in some ways.  Not all, because I'm generally a very patient sort but certainly when it comes to learning stuff.  I need the info right there without having to wait for it to show up on screen.

Maybe it's because I'm more mindful of passing time, or something like that.  TBH, I've not even opened Poser for months.  It's a great tool and can be a lot of fun but I honestly can't say when I last really enjoyed using it.

I don't care for video tutorials either. If I'm Googling for help, I usually add -youtube to avoid videos, if possible.

In some cases, video makes sense, but I think the huge move to video instead of images and text is because it's easier to monetize video. Just a lot more profitable.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 8:07 PM Sat, 6 May 2023 - #4464495

Been around since the first Poser, and honestly... Only found out like last month that you can alt+click a dial to turn it back to default/zeroed. D'uh, thanks Nerd3d for that one LMAO! Been super helpful when making stuff.

WHU--UUT???  Been Posering since ver2 and this is the first time I hear about that one!  See, learn something new every day, LOL!

I thought of another one. Drag-and-drop import, from an external library such as Poser 2014's Air Library or the PzDB external library. Also .OBJs from Windows Explorer, if all you need is the materials-free line-art rendered in the real-time Comic Book Preview. I recall it took a while to realise that import could be done that way too. I'm not sure when drag and drop became a standard feature, but it wasn't always there in Poser.

something else I didn't know until recently is that on the render window page, you can switch between render engines and change between full-sized images, half-sized, and quarter-sized renders. I don't know when that was added but I didn't notice it until Poser 12 or possibly shortly before 12 came out. Yeah, I'm not very observant.

That was available in PP2014

Bill

I thought of another one, that newcomers may not learn about for a long time. Poser has an excellent and very easy-use foreshortening dial (meaning: a foreshortening effect on the camera). And the real-time Comic Book inking (Poser 11 onward) auto-adjusts its inking lines to become thicker toward the camera. As you can see here in this quick demo:

When I first seriously tried using the morph tool, it took a while to get the hang of it, but I eventually did. However, sometimes, the mirroring didn't work, and it frustrated the hell out of me. It took forever before I realized I had to have Body selected, not a specific body part, for the mirroring to work the way I wanted. Duh!

I didn't know that a passing interest in what I thought was a tool to help make better sprites and levels for twitch games would become a near 25-year hobby. 

I say this with amazement, happiness, and a touch of sadness. The latter because I can see AI transcending the use of the tools that I can now use by muscle-memory, and a time where all these investments over the years become as so much dust...

"all these investments over the years become as so much dust"

Quite the opposite, I'd say. I had no idea that all my Poser content would become so potentially valuable, for making quick 'seed images' for Img2Img in AI image generators, so as to get exactly what I want and to keep a character's appearance stable across different images (which is vital for comics). And we're only just at the start of such things. I fully expect some sort of "Poser character basic render to Photoreal AI render" feature before long (see SDXL 0.9 etc), and hope that the Poser 13/14 devs are considering a 'plug in any AI model' plugin for Poser. All they really need to do there, I'd guess, is make the PostFX panel open to PoserPython - so any script can be run on the render at PostFX time. Including a Python-driven AI.

The other way that AI makes Poser more valuable - and this brings the thread back to its original topic - is that I had no idea that over time I'd come to have a quick 'magic background maker' (good AIs such as SDXL). Backdrops for any type of scene, over which the Poser characters can then be rendered.

What I never realized when getting into Poser....

Well, that I would still be doing it all these years later.

That so many of the people I met and got to know so well, would pass on. Either to other hobbies, or another life.

That I would learn so much about the program and get so involved with it in many different ways.

That multiple gigabytes isn't enough space.... Terabytes are questionable now too....

On the flip side, I never thought that the community would get ripped to shreds like it has.

How many remember the days of clicking on the links on a site to go to the next Poser site? There were hundreds it not thousands of them.

There were so many people helping other people make content, learn Poser etc. Giving freely without bias or hatred.

And now for the most part, it has shrunk into a small handful of sites. 

What happened to the passion, the people that contributed so much, etc?

Well, let me tell you what actually happened to it.... And it might not be what you first think....

Some people thrive to trash everything they see as not good enough, while contributing nothing to Poser other than there disgust and hatred. For Poser, the people trying to make it better with content, help, tutorials, etc...

And worse yet, it is once again welcomed into the forums and community that it has basically already destroyed....

That is what happened, which may sound trivial, but it is not and has had a drastic negative impact.... This is what kills forum communities.

To those that have helped others and given freely to others for years. I thank and commend you for everything you have done for it.

For those that do nothing but complain and bash the crap out of everything.... Well, they can just pass on...

But they wont, because some forums still welcome the things that will destroy it, into it with open arms....

I ran very successful forums for years, some not so successful. And I know what kills them... There is a blatantly obvious difference...

None of the successful ones put up with destruction from within.... None of them....  

I see that destruction allowed here again. And that worries me.

Yes you can start the free speech argument. But that doesn't apply in a forum, and it never did either...

There is a TOS which nullifies that, at every forum. Every member has to agree to it to join. And it can be changed at any time the forum sees fit.

I started running and moderating forums when they were still run under the BBS systems.... (Yes I am showing may age here.)

But after seeing and realizing the real reason they fail, what is allowed to happen at forums baffles me.....

People tend to go to places they are treated with respect, among friends, etc. It is a personal kind of thing. Because they have a choice not to be treated like shit.

When others that disrupt that are welcomed into the same place with open arms, you will loose the people that were there to contribute...

Sound familiar when you look around to see how is actually left here? This thread is a perfect example of the small group of people left that contribute.

A small group of people that contribute and stuck it out. 

But, there is another group in the forum as well...... And the other group that is still welcomed, to finish the rest of us off....

How long will the rest of the good people here stick around with those that are never happy about anything and bash everything?

The number of people that left, is huge, to say the least....

Personally, I am done dealing with the fuckheads that think they control what people can contribute. I am done with the fuckheads that judge something they have never seen, don't have, and wont ever buy because they already know everything about it even thou they don't use it and may not even have that version of Poser. These are the same fuckheads that think they are the authority on Poser, and contribute nothing to it other than their hatred, bias, and bullshit. They are same fuckheads that continue to berate everything, including Poser in the Poser owners very own forums...

These are the same fuckheads that have literally destroyed the community. Many did the same things at other forums as well, even succeeded in what they set out to do.

Again, I have no problem with the people that contribute. No problem with the users that ask questions, etc.

But when the same group of fuckheads that are continually allowed to trash things they have never even fucking seen, Poser, etc, repeatedly.

I have to wonder what side the forum team is actually on.

The side that is helping Poser succeed, or the side trying to destroy it....

I am stating this from experience... As in 40+ years of it. Feel free to tell my your opinion on it if anyone believes I am incorrect in this....

Who knows, I could be wrong and there are still thousands of active members contributing here............

If what I have said bothers any of the forum team, feel free to suspend my account just for pointing out the obvious.....

Because it is blatantly obvious....

I made sure not to violate the TOS in any way when making this post.....

Here is a link to the TOS, just in case anyone want to actually read it.... https://www.renderosity.com/wiki/policies/terms-of-service

@shvrdavid:

Thanks, man.

I'm a baby compared to many of you in Poserdom, started with Poser 7, and had no idea how to conform clothes or hair, but darned if I wasn't determined to do it. I got so much help and kind words from many people in the by now sadly much smaller community. Lurked on many forums for literal decades and witnessed many of the things you list above. I also see how much publicity and fanfare the other software gets on social media and I would venture 98 percent of people who laud them there doesn't even know Poser exists, while even 10 years ago it was a different percentage.

You and people like you are who keeps us, literal end users who never created content, figures, props, textures or materials but just would like to learn and play, going. Thank you and keep going!

shvrdavid posted at 3:05 PM Sun, 23 July 2023 - #4470944

Y-Phil posted at 2:16 AM Mon, 24 July 2023 - #4470978

shvrdavid posted at 3:05 PM Sun, 23 July 2023 - #4470944

Thank you so much!

I'm in favour of a clear return to a bit more discipline: after all, respect goes both ways.

TBH, it's much, much better than it was a few years ago; I remember fights breaking out almost all the time, all day, every day.  I'm not saying the negatives shouldn't be dealt with now, mind you, just that it *is* demonstrably better than it was.

I do, however, think it was a mistake to tighten the forum rules to a "Strictly on topic" place because, despite the fights, we'd managed to build a sense of community here, and it was always somewhere we could share all kinds of things, other than simply Poser.  I know there are other forums on here, but honestly, how much traffic do they get, compared to here?

Anyhow, as for Poser, I've not done much with it for a while because, well, life gets in the way.  I have too much to deal with IRL to want to get my head around the nuts and bolts of making Poser do what I want; basically, the thing has grown immensely complex over recent years and it'd take me forever to catch up.  So, I tended to restrict my stuff to making models for free and for sale, but even that's dried up now because I simply can't be bothered to jump through hoops getting stuff to work.  But that's *my* problem, nobody else's.  My health took a sharp left turn and now my meds are definitely making it harder for me to drum up any energy.  Maybe I'll be full of fire when I'm cancer free, but not right now.