to get a understanding .... the script needs to be written manually for it to work so for example to change a diffuse color you need such lines, as simple sample but to be able to adapt older skins to superfly more nodes would need to be altered so the codes would be of great help to create the scripts

Diffuse color change sample

figure

{

material 2_SkinHead

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

}

material 2_SkinNeck

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

}

material 2_SkinTorso

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

}

material 2_Nipple

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

}

material 2_SkinHip

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

}

material 3_SkinArm

{

KdColor 0 0 0 1

ETC.........

RedPhantom posted at 4:23 PM Thu, 12 October 2023 - #4476161

Let's try to stay on topic for the vascularity in this thread. We can start another for tips on using Superfly and for questions from those who are just starting to use it or those who are unsure about going that route until they know more. That way the information for one topic doesn't get lost in the other.

But since this thread is not about vascularity and shaders to do so, I will refrain from posting that.

By all means, carry on........

@shvrdavid

Well you sure could post your alternate shade setting for vascularity that works for superfly as a Mt5 that sure would be interesting and useful for further improvements, mine is just basic, it works but there might be a better way with even better random possibilities. Some renders of them so to see how the effects should be resulting could also be usefull :)

would also be great if you got some solution for the script ....

To see other settings in a Mt5 could also help the development of a one click adjustment pz file for skins if they vary allot from the basics, older stuff does not have to be perfect by any means, but getting them to work in a simple way sure would be great in superfly. considering that such a setup for veins has a large range like scars, scales, special definitions on skins, all just by simply changing the maps on a simple setup :)

@shrvrdavid, as the originator of this thread, I would very much interested seeing that, even if you could just pm it to me. I intended this thread to be about vascularity and solutions in Superfly thereof.

I'm pretty sure I would like it.

Just so you know where I am coming from:

(BTW, I was an early adopter of Poser 13, basically paying full price to upgrade from Poser 11. Only to find that Renderosity stabbed me in the back by allowing direct upgrades from Poser 11 for half what I paid a few weeks earlier. But that's another story. So I really would have my investment actually pay off-)

So I'd really would like to know whether my next computer should have a decent GPU to support Superfly or I rather get a better CPU for Firefly)

OK, this is what I have now:

The figure is a modified / improved Poser 5 Don, using Michael 2 textures plus a converted Michael 4 vascularity map. The mesh was subdivided once.

Shader is basically Snarlygribbly, but modified by me.

Two infinity lights, one IBL. (No image attached)

Render is of course Firefly.

The preview:

The render: (Actual displacement)

The shader setup:

Render time was 1.20 minutes.

My setup is optimized for performance AND to have a decent looking preview.

And here lies the biggest stumbling block for me. Looking at Shiverdavids render, I simply couldn't work with an "all black" preview. Nope, Nada. Remember the Poser 4 days when the figures were just a bunch of boxes?

Of course a preview is never as good as the final render, but I worked hard to tease as much realism out of OpenGL as I could, and I won't go back behind that standard.

I also need "real" displacement, not just some Bump -map trickery.

(Preferrable without having to subdivide the mesh so many times that Poser starts to scream in pain)  ;-)

As long as we don't have true instancing, large outdoor scenes with grass are impossible without actual displacement. (Mesh grass and hair-room grass only work for the foreground)

*

Anyway, back to the skin / vascularity:

I'm seriously asking: What, in it's current stage of development, can Superfly BETTER than Firefly can?

Even if I put the poor preview aside, I look at the "Poser 13" renders thread and at threads like this, and I see nothing.

Not a single Render I see there that makes me go "Wow, I need to install Poser 13 again because this looks so great and I wouldn't be able to replicate this with Firefly."

Sorry.

But I STILL very much would like to see a Superfly skin shader that is as robust (As in: Looks good combined with a large amount of very different light settings) and easy to handle as what I'm currently using.

You don't have to work with an all black preview, and you never had too either. Yes some shader setups don't compute properly in Superfly, in the preview. But the same can be said about that in Firefly with complex shaders too. You can have lights that light up the preview and do nothing in the render as well. 

This goes right back to knowing how the engines actually work, and understanding how to do things.

You can also do things in Superfly that you can not in Firefly. One being vector math mods to shaders without a million nodes. The other is control SSS depth, color, and type, on multiple layers of SSS/ (You don't have to use Poser layers to do so either)

The shader above works well, in Firefly, but it is missing a lot..... It does use Firefly's micropoly displacement advantage thou. But is also has many disadvantages compared to Superfly. Veins appear blue for a reason, and that reason has a lot to do with SSS control that is next to impossible to do in Firefly. So where is the blue SSS in the veins on the shader above? Well, there isn't any handling for it at all. It would be a very large shader setup in Firefly to do so. Superfly, no where near as many nodes to get the same result, but it is still a lot. You need more image maps than diffuse and a vascularity map or a ton of procedural stuff to do so, in both engines.. Most content doesn't come with those maps, and they never will at Poser content prices either.

"Ok guess no one had a solution for the scripts" .... So will figure out the codes by my self taking a little longer to share the setup ! so this is the Pz2 script so far used on a older Illusion design texture set. The first render shows the effect in superfly P13 without changes. applying the Pz2 file to the old texture would result like shown in the second render, so just a klick away. there are some other slight changes that I have to do on the script but so far it makes almost any old texture working with the superfly engine in a matter of seconds .... 

Combining the simple vein setup "that no other found a better solution until now" it should be possible to combine the skin script to adapt an older skin adding the vein option right into it. but this has to be figured out if in two parts or a single click option would really needs to be done.

BTW: Sample renders have the exact same Ambient light setup and superfly render setting No Postworking on the renders No changed on the maps or skin.

I personally think that allot of technical discussions are not very helpful on the how and why, at least for most users. This just is making it confusing and users are getting frustrated, the main importance is the given result and sharing it if possible so that the user ends up to be a happy camper with a working file that is fixing the issues. People do not want to bother with all this technical stuff for weeks and month and they do not want to question the why it is not working, they just wanna play with the Dolls :) and get fast working solutions. 

For me for instance it would of been important getting the codes to get on with the script or an alternative MT5 setting to see what alternatives there could be, but instead there is again allot of talk of why and how that has nothing to do with the purposes.

ok back to it .... this is the comparison of the effective final after the fix using a simple "filter" to see what is really going on

Original setup im Poser13 Superfly with filter

Fixed skin with one klick Pz2 for P13 Superfly

The results are "gigantic" and sure makes the old Dolls worth getting out of your dust-cases. Both renders been through the same filter to check the  effective improvements on the texture setting for superfly.  

understanding the filter : It just is using the light contrast balance to see if the render has the correct Information for further Postworks. The original render lost most Information as you can see. the second with the fix applied has all given levels for a perfect skin. Again .... same skin textures same lights same render setup.

Getting to the next step. Old skin fix applied with Vascularity expansion, same settings as above first render simple no filtering used, second render with simple filter for the final results. Got a little distracted and have not jet added additional lines to the script for more complex older skins but at least I got a acceptable result for Vascularity, scales and skin.

Again same setup .... skipping to place without filter, further expansion of the script with optional Vein Intoxication. Ok Now should get my self on getting the script done else I sure will loose track of all the steps :)  ( Just turned the light from the right to the left ) 

"So where is the blue SSS in the veins on the shader above? Well, there isn't any handling for it at all. It would be a very large shader setup in Firefly to do so."

That's actually not a limitation of Firefly, but of my 58year old brain.  ;-)

I already had a (blue) color map spliced in, but the blender note was still set to 0.00! DUH!

BTW, I'm not happy with the vascularity map. As I said, it was converted from M4 to M3 then to M2.

If anyone knows a better map made for M2, I'm all ears.

*

"I personally think that allot of technical discussions are not very helpful on the how and why, at least for most users. This just is making it confusing and users are getting frustrated, the main importance is the given result and sharing it if possible so that the user ends up to be a happy camper with a working file that is fixing the issues. People do not want to bother with all this technical stuff for weeks and month and they do not want to question the why it is not working, they just wanna play with the Dolls :) and get fast working solutions."

I again have to agree with you, JustBeCause.

While I (Out of sheer necessity, I must say) learned my way around the material room, at least enough to get results I'm pleased with, I am so NOT interrested in it's inner workings.

Especially not in having to start from new, having to learn a gazillion of new nodes and what they do when I can barely memorize the old ones.

I'd rather spent my time sculpting and rigging or making stuff in Wings3D.

(Also, if I HAVE to learn a new shader from the ground up, wouldn't my time be better spent to just learn Cycles?)

*

But be that as it may, a "ready to use" skin shader for Superfly would still be very welcome.

*******************************************************************************************************

BTW, I don't mind a better render engine at all!

But I think it would have been better to make it an external plug-in.

Or simply work on a Poser/Blender bridge.

@ JoePublic 

My preference is actually also Firefly, main reason I spend my time ( right now  ) for finding a solution for superfly is that actually the setup works for both, it even improves the renders in Firefly without any big mess of nodes and setups. Starting off in Firefly and see if it also turns out right in Superfly.

Your Vascularity setup sure looks basically correct, just a matter of Vein thickness of the map used for bump or displacements but sure would look perfect for scars, guess it also depends on how much you increase the volume of the model.

Best solution for most sure would be just having small patches letting you use the texture sets in both render engines without having to rebuild huge collections of doll setups that actually would be just impossible seeing all the options such a pack often give.

Actually we are happy campers if the render just ends up to look good not caring about the logic if right or wrong in the material room LOL, there are Millions of ways to make nodes, some have the passion spending there free time attaching nodes all day trying to explain the why ( a Mathematic Passion ) others spend there time making neat renders :) hoping to get a cheer up and some appreciation.

I chose the second option with renders and less time with nodes :)) just gotta find the balanced shortcut for it , one klick for nodes and I'm all happy and hit that render button.

ok getting a little off topic here ...... 

It would be better to use the blue map to drive changes in the Subsurface. 

Personally I don't find it that hard to learn what the nodes do. The hard part is converting what you want to achieve into a node structure that does what you were thinking about in the first place. You sort of have to understand the nodes, what they actually do, what you are trying to do (how light actually works, SSS, etc). 

If any of you don't want the technical discussions on how the nodes work, how light works, so you can get it to work. Just do the vascularity in post work and be done with it.

That way you don't have to worry about the nodes, how to use them, learning, etc.  Then people can go to the appropriate post work forum to discuss it there.

As is stands now, this is a Poser forum discussing how to do vascularity, in Poser, and winging it to get close enough was probably not the OP's intention.....

If you want it to look right, you have to understand it.... The render engine does exactly what you tell it to do, nothing more, nothing less......

But we were told not to explain these things by a Mod, so I will leave it at that....... But by all means, wing it and tell yourself it looks right......

@ shvrdavid: I want to understand the nodes and what they do in Superfly. The skin setup that ghostship2 proposed for Cycles is very simple and has great results and I have been using it with success in Poser 13.

I would very much like learn how to connect vascularity maps to it the way it was proposed by some of you, but I could only get one of those to work. As I mentioned before. An automated/scripted way would be great even if I had to buy it.

I am curious as to what your solution is.

@shvrdavid

Until now, no other member presented a alternate solution, even that it has been requested several times, saying "so I will leave it at that" is not a helpful solution. Like said before, it would be appreciated getting a working alternative ( not just talking around it ) A render, a setup, a Mt5 sampler. You say you spend 2h on a alternate solution but right after that, you say, I will not share, so what's the point ? just reading the link to you placed "behind the scene" episode does not give any clue on a alternative setup for this theme.

This is not a way achieving team work for a good final solution, that all could take a good profit off. so either you are able to give an alternative or you are not able, as simple as that.

@shvrdavid, I did not say not to explain things. I said not to get sidetracked. I said let's keep the thread based on vascularity. Part of that would include explaining how to achieve it.

Yeah, ok.......

The op has said that they want to understand the nodes, understand it completely. Even how to use it with Ghostships superfly shaders, not firefly.

That is what I was referring to when talking about an environment and then the link. I was remaining on topic, but started from the foundation part that was not being discussed that makes a HUGE difference.

Again, you have to understand how the engine works, what the nodes expect as far as lighting goes, etc.. 

But this is no longer the OP's thread, is it...............

Will be off for a while, Trying to finish up my basic solution for the Pz2 skin file to adapt the older skins so that the Vascularity can be used on them in superfly. No more renders needed from my side so I can concentrate on the script settings. Vascularity I will try making a full setup Pz2 or Mt file with maps in the root folder so you can just change these replacing with same named maps of your own ( Would make life easy interchanging the maps without having to change the script Path's ) Do not expect perfection I'll keep it simple..... 

Still if someone got a alternate setup for the Vascularity it would be appreciated,  "" a B&W Vascularity map V4 M4 that can be shared would save allot of time  :) "" and finally some clue for script codes requested to build up a great Pz file that can be used on old skin packages. Got already most of these codes but still not 100% sure about the Alternate ones ..... 

So letting you guys the campus to post your settings and alternative proposals :)

Be back as soon as I can post these setups Pz Mt files in here....

Again if one has a free good Vascularity map to share it would be a great timesaver else I'll just try making one my self for the basic script ....

Since I feel a little left alone on this I am setting up a basic Map style for Vascularity that will be shared with the setup. This is just a test to see if the effects with this style of vein contrast would get a good result. You tel me ! I had to set up some brushes in "Twisted brush" trying to get a good working texture. the Pz2 file to adapt older skins for superfly is getting slowly better as for the Vascularity so it seems I'll have to get good basic textures done. To me it seems that the style would already do the trick and the brush is setup in a good balance giving a sharper definition then the old Vascularity maps.

Test maps for the Vascularity superfly-firefly setup

Hope there is still some interests since there is not much participation on this matter, else will just open up a new thread on this matter, like said any help and Ideas are appreciated .....

There are too many visible prominent veins unless you want a science-fiction look.  Areas where veins are most noticeable in an average person would be the feet, ankles, back of the hands, wrists, the crook of the arm, behind the knee, the neck, and perhaps the temples.  Everywhere else, you will see the faint outlines of the blue vessels.  A bodybuilder will exhibit more prominent vessels along the forearms, biceps, chest, abdomen, backs, thighs, and calves.  Of course, if you want to make an imperfect individual, you need to consider the creation of spider veins and varicose veins or other types of vascular diseases.

hborre posted at 10:05 PM Fri, 13 October 2023 - #4476225

There are too many visible prominent veins unless you want a science-fiction look.  Areas where veins are most noticeable in an average person would be the feet, ankles, back of the hands, wrists, the crook of the arm, behind the knee, the neck, and perhaps the temples.  Everywhere else, you will see the faint outlines of the blue vessels.  A bodybuilder will exhibit more prominent vessels along the forearms, biceps, chest, abdomen, backs, thighs, and calves.  Of course, if you want to make an imperfect individual, you need to consider the creation of spider veins and varicose veins or other types of vascular diseases.

this is how the Map brush tester looks like, also will have to make sure not going over the borders with the branches took a while to set up these brushes to generate branches.

As for the strength will be possible to alter the map with blur, contrast and darkness making them fade away. That would be the easy part. Important for now is to have a good Map so that the setup script can be made to share. Btw, if you find some usage for the scrap just go ahead :)

ok now I am stuck with a strange poser issue. when having a script with this lines to add the Vascularity bump without affecting the other textures, actually a setup that always was working it loads the bump file into the Gradient_bump node instead of the Bump node. Actually it should load into the Bump node. Someone might have a solution for this issue !!! Hope dies last ...

this is how the script looks like, all works great , but Poser loads the Bump on the wrong place !

{

version

{

number 13

build 449

}

actor $CURRENT

{

material

{ 

bumpStrength 0.02 

bumpMap ":Runtime:libraries:pose:Vascularity-Limbs.jpg"

  0 0   

}

}

}

}

somehow Poser is confusing the Gradient_Bump node with the Bump node ... LOL

That confusing Bump node with Gradient_Bump seems to be quiet a issue with global consequences for Pz2 Mt files ! that concerns almost the whole poser line since P7! Wonder what caused this issue . 

Any Poser file that has a integrated adjustment to just change the bump,  Specular, Ambient, any Spectrum changes even in figures like M4 when it loads out of the box will move the bump to Gradient bump, unless it is not a file that is changing the whole setups of the skin. So most probably if you open M4 because he is having the line in the script 

bumpMap ":Runtime:libraries:.........

he's bump maps will load into Gradient_bump. Some other material files that have alternative settings in packages causing the same changing that bump node! Now a good working script to adapt skins for older packages or just adding a Vascularity with bump maps to a loaded skin on your model it is getting difficult as again that darn bump node gets changed to gradient bump globally on your loaded figure.

I do not know if any of you in here have some experience with the Pz2 Mt5 scrips to be any help finding a solution for this issue! I do allot work with manually altering the scripts to be able doing things that Poser just can't do by just hitting a save button, so there might be someone in here that is able to see what I can't see, with all the Knowledge of Map, light, nodes, settings.

probably just a tiny thing that is causing this global Poser material phenomenon! 

GOD how I miss RDNA !!!!

For you to understand and making it less complicated, "I might get some help this way" ! here is a Pz2 file sampler made the Standard way, always has been done this way. This Pz2 file will reduce the glow on a skin so that it can be used in superfly. Your model will not shine like it just came out of a oil bath or even be made of silicone! a good start for making these Vascularity Injections. "BUT" now it comes ! this set has nothing to do with bump, but it will change your bump node to Gradient_Bump a real mystery for sure! same thing if I do a file instead of Specular like in this Pz2 sample, but doing it for Bump settings without affecting your loaded maps! " It all gets moved to Gradient_Bump !

Here is a Pz2 file reducing the Specular value on older skins for a basic good usage in superfly P13. you check it your self it works just that the bump has been changed to Gradient_Bump .

Download Pz2 1Klick for Superfly Sampler  

Note: it is for V4-M4 older doll skins

Download Pz2 1Klick for Superfly Sampler

Feel like talking to my self in here :(

"Now it would be a good timing to understand nodes in a script !!!"

Trying my luck with the Script editor for the mentioned issues, making life easy to find the settings and nodes in the script !  Was at least able to find a configuration to load the Veins setup into a model without the loss of the loaded skins and without the change of bump settings. but the feature to remove the oil shine for superfly on older sets still changes the Bump to Gradient setting. The issue left for the Vascularity loading on a mapped model is that the node is not attached and needs manually to be done. Attaching the node somehow is causing to generate a secondary PoserSurface in the materials that remains Inactive or interchangeable. But getting closer to a solution! 

The 1klick for superfly could be integrated directly into the script for Vascularity using the advantage of the error to drop Bump to Gradient bump for the skin so that the Vein bump load into the Bump keeping the doll skin bump and not being replaced by Vascularity ( A error that could be used as vantage )

with this it sure is possible changing the lines a little faster and in a secure way ..... still the Bump phenomenon remains after several tries

I still hope that someone in here can help out a little since this could be something that all can profit from for many other Superfly solutions and Mat settings. Getting a little the feeling that there are no more creators around for Poser that are experienced enough, even that all this is old school for Poser! 

I may ask a question in a less technical way !? 

Is it Possible creating a Pz2 or Mt .... file that is just changing the Specular value and color without affecting the rest ? If yes How!

Is it Possible creating a Pz2 or Mt .... file that adds a bump strength or a new map without affecting the rest of the loaded model ? if yes How!

Is it possible creating Pz2, Mt files that just can change a color a value a strength in a loaded skinned model leaving the rest as it is ? If yes How!

I know it can be done as I already had quiet some good results, I am just missing a tiny thing, something I have overseen. 
 

Poser does not support partial materials. And PFE knows nothing of python scripts, you are editing Poser files, not scripts. 

To do what you are asking about (applying a partial material change) requires a python script that reads the current shader tree, modifies it, and replaces the entire shader it previously read.

So you either need to write python script to deal with the specific shader setup you are working with, or a very complex script that can work with any material setup used on any character.

Or do it manually, because Poser doesn't support partial materials.....

That is exactly what I was trying to avoid using a py script ! from these are loads around but as we all know all dead. P11 has expanded script letting you do most anything with the material room in just a few clicks but again for simple users it is a large learning curve. It could of been done in a simple way using ShaderWorks .... AdvancedShaders.pyc loading through a py a  sh8 Vascularity shader "my guess" but well this is a dead end for poser 12 up.

I'll continue trying seems I found the right root, some things work others have to be figured out in the script, not the first time that i found way's to trick out Poser with scripts and options that one thought it never would of been possible.

Still working on this Vascularity setup with SF older skin shine fix. Found some new solutions that are getting close to get good results ....

Wonder why People think that a Py is a script and a Poser file not !? so a poser File is a poser file LOL . It is a little disappointing not to see any alternative working samples in here, seems a little that people are giving up on Poser. There sure were times when Poser users were searching for solutions and "Never even thought something would not be possible or not supported " It was simply made to be supported :)

In times when  we talked about changing a Poser file manually we were talking about changing the script but times seem to have changed. Ok enough of this ... 

I passed some time to see if it would be an alternative to write Vascularity into a SDMAT Pose " sub-dividing MAT pose " at the time it was a method used to make second skins. I could add some lines into the previously posted 1klick for SF Pz2 that is only changing the values in the materials of a loaded model so that things do not get affected to much and the results for older skins in superfly give good results. So for this matter it is Solved , but this is not the thread theme, we want vascularity there I just need to figure out how to load the bump setting on the right place, it is to mention that it works to load a individual map keeping the loaded skins on a figure with a poser file, it is supported ! but well that bump still loads to gradient bump :) . a alternative test I'v done is to load the Bump nodes into the model without having it attached to the Poser surface, this works perfectly not affecting the skin setup of your loaded model, this alternative would mean that you just would need to attach this additional shader tree manually to the bump node.

so well , Poser sure supports Partial materials, no doubt !  

In my opinion, the old PoserSurface node is becoming obsolete and can easily be replaced with the root PhysicalSurface node which is friendlier to the Preview window than the Cycles node, especially for Firefly.  If set correctly, the channels are more precise and may be less prone to problems.  However, there are times when one PhysicalSurface node in a material zone will not behave accordingly syncing with the preview window. The PoserSurface node needs to be present for proper display.  

hborre posted at 5:54 PM Mon, 16 October 2023 - #4476365

In my opinion, the old PoserSurface node is becoming obsolete and can easily be replaced with the root PhysicalSurface node which is friendlier to the Preview window than the Cycles node, especially for Firefly.  If set correctly, the channels are more precise and may be less prone to problems.  However, there are times when one PhysicalSurface node in a material zone will not behave accordingly syncing with the preview window. The PoserSurface node needs to be present for proper display.  

This is why I think that the best solution is to figure out a file that does the trick, so that these users just can click and it works. Vascularity is a old product just like all V4 M4 dolls and skins that are still the most commonly used Poser models! Working on solution with just a few clicks making all these older things work in superfly without that the users need to manually rebuild all these would make Poser of more interest. It does not have to be perfect in sense of how all these nodes are built, it just has to render well. The user just wants to klick that SF render button and get a neat result, he does not care about the proper shader tree. If it does not work he wants a button a file that just makes it work. 

I see all the Poser forums slowly die, guess why ? except of complex manual solutions you just will not find any simple ones that adapt or fix the stuff to be working with SF. I try going from there trying to make a simple file for simple users so that these get the stuff working without having to puzzle around for day's.

If shvrdavid tells me " you only can do it with a PY " well this is not the solution this just is telling me " Make a py " but if he's solution is the right one why is he not offering it, this would be a alternate solution. Just saying what could work without being able to make it is not the solution ending up with a working product.

I can make these Vascularity I can set em up just like a few of you in here also can " Manually " but can you share these ? so that others just can load them on there favorite skinned dolls ? 

This worked for me:

The above was proposed by user oz_tangles and added to the shader for Cycles that ghostship2 published on these forums it works well. It is, however, a manual solution and it would be nice to have a python script written for it.

If shvrdavid tells me " you only can do it with a PY " well this is not the solution this just is telling me " Make a py " but if he's solution is the right one why is he not offering it, this would be a alternate solution. Just saying what could work without being able to make it is not the solution ending up with a working product.

So let me guess, I am supposed to write the script for you? And just post it here? So someone else can make a working product out of it? 

Python is not a programming language I use much, just so you know that. But I do know how to program in it.

This is a thread on Vascularity, not Python.

We were already warned to stay on topic as it is. And all it takes are mods to decide the thread goes, and poof, it's gone forever....

Poser is something I use a lot, know basically inside out, worked with Dev's on, have alpha and beta tested it for years, etc. 

Are you perturbed that I know what needs to be done, what you want to do, explained what you actually need to do to do so, but did not offer it to you in completed form?

Doing it the way I mentioned is not just what could work. It is the only way to do it. Other than manually doing it and saving it the your library.

Which both you and Poser know how to do.

A python script to do this to every possible shader setup out there, in two render engines, could take months to write, debug, etc.

I did offer you the solution. Have at it...

Gotcha. Thanks. 

I am done with this thread, didn't mean it to turn into this. Mods, feel free to delete, and sorry.

Rhia474 posted at 8:04 PM Mon, 16 October 2023 - #4476372

This worked for me:

Here is a Mt5 file for your setup for others to try. To use it on skins " Load it using the double hook, add to scene button " it will be added on the region you selected, without affecting your other loaded textures, connect the Mix Color to the displacement node of the Poser surface. I added the test map into the Material folder you can use your own by just replacing it with a same named Map into the material folder.

Alternative Vascularity setup DL

Shot of the result of this setup, as you can see some veins go in others come out, so I am not sure if this setup is good enough to be used  

1st.

little side note, you mentioned the shader for Cycles that ghostship2 published was used for your displacement style that I used for the last comment, if this shader is causing like seen in the screen shot negative and positive effects that actually are totally wrong then it will happen with any other displacement setting used with this setting, meaning you will always get a wrong result .

2ond.

As for Partial materials or loading, saving some of your settings to be used without having to recreate them manually every time you load a new project, you can create these in poser in a easy way, so do not get irritated by shvrdavid saying "Poser does not support partial materials" to do this simply select the node branch then save it as Mt5.

after you have saved your shader setup simply load it by adding to scene on any new setup , without affecting your doll skin, you get a Partial material loaded this way. only thing you now need to do is to relink your shader tree to the poser surface.

So much for Poser not supporting Partial Materials !!!

Look Vopehov, I never said Poser could not save partial materials, I said it doesn't support them, as in you cant load them hooked up to anything.

actually you can load any node collection all hooked, whole setups and yes it just will not add a node to the poser surface if using this method. Rather having the feeling that users in here were not aware of this feature in poser as none has "Ever" mention it as alternative. all always say " You must do it all manually " so in case you were not aware of the feature until now, you now know that it exists :) 

as for a script in a poser file to just add this missing little feature to hook the setup to the poser surface is just a little thing that I mentioned and was trying to get help on it, it just links it to a wrong place, but it is possible, just like many other things in poser that allot of users think it is not possible because they can't figure em out them selves.

See just like the py issue if i were to make it i would just share it "  was even looking into it ", not like some that think if they were sharing there help that another one would use it for he's own benefit witch is a little egoistic thinking. In here things really seem to work very contra productive if it comes to bring up solutions or new features for poser, by any means that sure is not what will make poser better . Unless it has been brought up by that little group that is left in here not letting any new Ideas from other users go through as of a fear of attention loss ! Also a main reason why the Forums slowly are dying.

shvrdavid posted at 1:13 PM Tue, 17 October 2023 - #4476400

Look Vopehov, I never said Poser could not save partial materials, I said it doesn't support them, as in you cant load them hooked up to anything.

Summon_Conjurer

had to make a secondary account JustBeCause I lost my password and trying to retrieve it after a computer crash, got it somewhere on a txt on my backups :) so this is why I name it JustBeCause ! Really Ironic .

Sure.....

The height map shown above may benefit from some gaussian blur to soften the edges of the veins. I used a gaussian blur setting of 2 pixels in Photoshop. Maybe you can even go up to 4. This will soften the transition between the normal skin and the raised veins. 

Also remember ... bump maps only show accurately for polygons that are directly facing the camera. Displacement would be better, but you have to subdivide the mesh to get decent displacement in SuperFly.

The areas of the arm that are curving toward the back may be exhibiting the inverted appearance because they are not directly facing the camera. That is actually one of the reasons that I suggested adding the blur. 

Rhia474 posted at 8:06 PM Mon, 16 October 2023 - #4476373

The above was proposed by user oz_tangles and added to the shader for Cycles that ghostship2 published on these forums it works well. It is, however, a manual solution and it would be nice to have a python script written for it.

Anyway, let's say you're doing the arm.

1) Select the arm material.

2) Add a new material layer.

3) In that new material layer, add a phyisical surface node.

4) Change the Color chip to a blue veiny color. 

5) Connect the Vascularity map to the Opacity channel so that the color only appears in the veins.

6) Set the roughness to .5 or higher (you don't want it too shiny). Connect the vascularity map to that input as well.

7) Connect the vascularity map to the bump or displacement and set the value to whatever works well.

I THINK that is all you need to do ... I'm going by memory here.

Anyway, follow that same procedure for the other body parts until you get all the vascularity maps created and looking the way you want.

Then save it to the library. You SHOULD be given the option to save ONLY the material layers to the library, which should then work on any other skin base made for that same character.

NOTE that material layers are SuperFly only. They don't work in FireFly.