I don't think we've ever said that Poser doesn't create well - just there aren't many resources left for those who want to start learning how to now.

Rhia474 posted at 10:23 AM Sun, 21 January 2024 - #4480639

Where Poser falls short right now is content. Look at the other software's store: I want decent fantasy clothing with detailed armor and not much skin, check. Do I want fantasy with skin, check. Do I want sci-fi armor and critters, check. Do I want monsters,  check. Do I want great props with details and different shaders,  check. Do I want to import figures from a game and render them? Check.

I'd settle for armor with a lot of skin at this point. You can't even do a naked LaFemme in a temple with a sword render, unless you make her actually naked. No brass bikinis or anything like that to be found. Most clothing for LF and LF2 are dynamic, I guess because it's easier. But some things look better as conformers.

I'd be absolutely happy to use LF or LH more if they had content that is suitable for what I do. But at this point all I can do is portraits or quasi-contemporary renders...and I am still grumpy about LH's arm bends (SO glad LF got fixed!). I tried to use him yesterday in a standing portrait with his actual, made-for-him poses and the arms were so awful I just closed the program instead.

I really hope that is being worked on for P14?

So yes, content for P14 that would be nice (along with what I described). And L'Homme updated. And I understand if displacement can't be fixed in Cycles, okay... can we, then, get some decent content creation tutorials and maybe, maybe a script that handles scars, dirt and tattoos easier than doing them by hand matzone by matzone, please?

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 7:43 AM Sat, 3 February 2024 - #4481193

I don't think we've ever said that Poser doesn't create well - just there aren't many resources left for those who want to start learning how to now.

As in Tutorials?

One thing about Poser its been around for generations and the same principals from decades ago largely apply today.  Here is a secret stash worth its weight in gold   http://www.cocs.com/poser/

Are you sure that the link is working?  I get a 404 error.

The page works and loads fine for me, but to be honest I am not sure what of it still can be used for the current Poser version. That's my issue with most of the stuff that is floating around: no one went through and updated older tutorials etc. I mean it still talks about reflection maps, for instance, and Smith Micro as the current owner of the software... There are tutorials here on this very site on how to *use* the software, that's not my issue, my issue is regarding to how to *make* anything for Poser. As many said before, several of the tools that were used no longer work and my understanding is that there is no process that was ever put online that is comprehensive.

I'm a Poser loyalist. Always have been.  May I make a radical suggestion? I know there are challenges to creating for Poser ... but we have some great creators who do just that. Why not concentrate on what we love.  Making images from Poser.  Just doing what we do.  No comparing to other programs or content.  But keep with Poser.  I have over 1.5 Terabytes of resources and content for Poser to work from ... dating back to Poser 3.  It's about creating what Poser can do.  The other program seems to be more about buy, buy, buy to make whatever is trending for them.  I don't think Poser users are that way.  We just get ideas and render that idea in our favorite program. 

Got you. Had no idea I was taken that way. Sorry.

Rhia, I get what you mean.  There is a tremendous lack of knowledgeable tutorials and step-by-step guides on creating content, not only for Poser but for any third-party 3D program.  The Blender community seems to be on track to provide such needs but there are no tutorials for importing and working with other program figures.  If someone is very knowledgeable in a particular skill set, they are unwilling to share technique, methodology, and tricks of the trade tips.  How many tutorials are available on how to create a mesh hairpiece?  None as far as I've seen.

I think you guys are over complicating things surrounding the issue of content. I don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way but in my eyes the content issue is much simpler. 

In 2011 Genesis was introduced creating a rift as a disruptive innovation at a time Poser was mainly in a circle of smaller incremental updates from Poser 9 onwards for several years. REF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poser_(software) (Have a look here at the developments after Poser Pro 2010, things seem to slow to an evolutionary pace)((+ Someone needs to update the Poser wiki page as it stops at 11.2)) So basically it was revolution vs evolution which always generally goes one way in a marketing environ. 

This created a fork in the user base as many were interested in Genesis and some were directly opposed. Many users decided to peak there head over the fence and liked what they found there. A platform focused more on delivering a stream of user focused content or as some may term it "selling make art buttons". At this point the market began to radically alter and sales of Poser products started to drop in the market. Many Poser users embraced the core of Poser as a self creation program and begged for tools to aid in that end. Vendors seen the change in sales numbers of content and generally migrated to vending for both platforms as this was a viable option initially. Over time the returns on one side just didn't justify overcoming the hurdles of the different direction of both platforms. So Poser content support seen a slow decline by third party creators as a response. I also believe from maybe Poser 8 or 9 onwards the market began transitioning from mainly a community driven 'make and share freely' content experience to a more commercially based concept. These factors over a decade led to the current content situation. The broader digital art market is now facing a few new forms of potentially disruptive technologies such as AI image generation, but that's another subject entirely.

I'm not going to go into my ideas how of how I think it's best to correct the trend as that tends to be pretty divisive subject. But I do see some indicators that things may be heading in a positive direction with Poser and Renderosity definitely has both the Poser community and the future of the platform in their foremost priorities. I'm looking forward to future announcement of the direction of Poser 14 from Bondware.

Boni posted at 1:01 PM Sun, 4 February 2024 - #4481243

I'm a Poser loyalist. Always have been.  May I make a radical suggestion? I know there are challenges to creating for Poser ... but we have some great creators who do just that. Why not concentrate on what we love.  Making images from Poser.  Just doing what we do.  No comparing to other programs or content.  But keep with Poser.  I have over 1.5 Terabytes of resources and content for Poser to work from ... dating back to Poser 3.  It's about creating what Poser can do.  The other program seems to be more about buy, buy, buy to make whatever is trending for them.  I don't think Poser users are that way.  We just get ideas and render that idea in our favorite program. 

I can certainly relate to that idea, I have been using Poser for 20 years now and use it to render on an almost daily basis.  In the early years I spent vast sums of money each month on more Poser content, these days I spend a lot less but the amount I am prepared to pay for individual items of content has gone up.  There are couple of Poser creators that provide some high quality Poser content and I tend to buy anything they produce.  I have even purchased some high end content in Blender format and converted that to Poser.  For all that it is my drive to try and improve the quality of my renders and understand Poser better that drives me on.  For me the ability to take an idea I have in my head and communicate that to others with the limited skills I have is what gives me the real buzz.  It is that buzz that keeps me using Poser and long may it continue.

An example of a purchase from outside the normal Poser market for something a little different that can be converted to render in Poser.

shvrdavid posted at 5:45 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481090

Rhia474 posted at 4:00 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481081

That is what worries me. Why is Poser not attracting content makers any more? Is it something much more difficult to create for than the other program? If you look even on this marketplace,  the difference is staggering. I would like to understand why, because without content the future is grim.

The main reason is probably the fact that if you didn't have the tools prior, you are not going to get them now. Poser file editor, Netherworks scripts, etc, all gone..... Having to edit basically everything Poser saves to put it up for sale is another problem. A problem that Poser, self created.... Almost all of the sites that explain the files structures, etc, are gone as well. The ones that are left took it upon themselves to delete much of it in the past, which didn't help matters a bit.....

Sure you can use notepad++ to edit and change Poser files.... You can also paint your car with a brush, but that is not very efficient......................

Poser File Editor is not gone, it's just been bundled in with other tools:

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/53947/poser-power-tools

It's a bit pricey but the other tools in that bundle come in handy too.

But the bigger issue is that content creators shouldn't be dependent on knowing how to edit code in order to make their content work.

Full unimesh support

Full geo grafting for weight mapped figures

UV swapping - which was promised back when Poser 11 was still in development by SM.

A hair and cloth system that isn't 25+ years out of date.

All the necessary rigging and morph setup tools built into the software so there's no need to edit files in a 3rd party editor or have a degree in advanced calculus to figure out the math necessary to make morphs work as required. If I want a morph applied at 100% when this joint rotation and that joint rotation are in x position then it's the software's job to do the calculations to make that happen, not me. 

Poser has a long way to go before it's going to attract many new or returning content artists, and they're not going to wait around, they've been waiting for years.

hborre posted at 3:16 PM Sun, 4 February 2024 - #4481245

Rhia, I get what you mean.  There is a tremendous lack of knowledgeable tutorials and step-by-step guides on creating content, not only for Poser but for any third-party 3D program.  The Blender community seems to be on track to provide such needs but there are no tutorials for importing and working with other program figures.  If someone is very knowledgeable in a particular skill set, they are unwilling to share technique, methodology, and tricks of the trade tips.  How many tutorials are available on how to create a mesh hairpiece?  None as far as I've seen.

Lady Littlefox has a series of tutorials on modeling hair. Originally at RDNA, now at DAZ.

Maybe that could be a solution? Tutorials that are for sale, not for free. I can understand people not wanting to spend time explaining how to do stuff, when they could make stuff for sale instead.

Rhia474 posted at 4:00 PM Thu, 1 February 2024 - #4481081

That is what worries me. Why is Poser not attracting content makers any more? Is it something much more difficult to create for than the other program? If you look even on this marketplace,  the difference is staggering. I would like to understand why, because without content the future is grim.

I can explain - you won't like it, but I can explain why we are where we are today......

<angry 3 page rant deleted>

We have 3 interrelated problems:

1.  A lack of vision at the company level; no one from Curious Labs to 'Rosity has been looking at the big picture.

2.  A vendor base that is mostly monetizing a hobby.

3.  A userbase that is aggressively unwilling to learn either new techniques or spend money on either content or hardware to make Poser go.

I dunno, I think the company has looked at the big picture. It often hasn't been one that aligns with us Renderosity users, and it hasn't been too successful, but I think they are looking. The execution has been questionable.

eFrontier did seem more attuned to the hobbyist users. They created Content Paradise, and content that had appeal to hobbyists, like the Winter Queen and Miki. I really liked the idea of the G2 figures, with shared bodies but different heads. Perhaps because they were based in Japan, they understood that corporate users, at least, wanted more diversity. When I see Poser renders "in the wild" these days,  it's usually the G2 figures.

Smith Micro seemed not that interested in Poser. Bondware clearly wants to tie Poser to their store, which is understandable. It appears that Poser still has corporate users, since they've set up a separate store with content that won't get you spoken to by HR.

I think the third issue might be the biggest. There's such a huge catalog of stuff for M4 and V4 that is often for sale for a couple of bucks, even a few cents. I think a lot of customers are used to Poser stuff being ridiculously cheap. Plus, many of us have been collecting stuff for those figures for going on 20 years, and it's hard to justify buying pricier content for new figures that are different, but not necessarily more useful than the old ones.

I guess what would most encourage me to spend more on Poser stuff is reassurance that a new figure will be supported, well into the future. There's still not a lot of stuff for LF and LH, and now we have LF2. (They have tried to make LF2 backward compatible, to a point, and I appreciate that).

Hivewire announcing Dawn 2 five years ago probably killed a lot of the interest in the original Dawn. It's been years now, since Dawn 2 was "coming soon."

Chris is the one that invented the saying "Daz Soon" - he has stayed to form.

As far as the 3rd issue - I really feel that 'Rosity should focus on the fitting room, and come up with a plan for converting shoes.

The fitting room gets us 90% there, but the last 10% would take 90% of the work.  However, once it is done, we have another giant leap forward.  It wouldn't matter who the clothing was made for originally.

poser 14 should be able to mix the mico displacement of firefly with superfly

randym77 posted at 11:28 PM Thu, 8 February 2024 - #4481377

I dunno, I think the company has looked at the big picture. It often hasn't been one that aligns with us Renderosity users, and it hasn't been too successful, but I think they are looking. The execution has been questionable.

eFrontier did seem more attuned to the hobbyist users. They created Content Paradise, and content that had appeal to hobbyists, like the Winter Queen and Miki. I really liked the idea of the G2 figures, with shared bodies but different heads. Perhaps because they were based in Japan, they understood that corporate users, at least, wanted more diversity. When I see Poser renders "in the wild" these days,  it's usually the G2 figures.

Smith Micro seemed not that interested in Poser. Bondware clearly wants to tie Poser to their store, which is understandable. It appears that Poser still has corporate users, since they've set up a separate store with content that won't get you spoken to by HR.

I think the third issue might be the biggest. There's such a huge catalog of stuff for M4 and V4 that is often for sale for a couple of bucks, even a few cents. I think a lot of customers are used to Poser stuff being ridiculously cheap. Plus, many of us have been collecting stuff for those figures for going on 20 years, and it's hard to justify buying pricier content for new figures that are different, but not necessarily more useful than the old ones.

I guess what would most encourage me to spend more on Poser stuff is reassurance that a new figure will be supported, well into the future. There's still not a lot of stuff for LF and LH, and now we have LF2. (They have tried to make LF2 backward compatible, to a point, and I appreciate that).

Hivewire announcing Dawn 2 five years ago probably killed a lot of the interest in the original Dawn. It's been years now, since Dawn 2 was "coming soon."

The third point is the issue for me,  I have been using Dawn SE for a number of years now and I have been more than happy doing so plus I can find enough content to spend my hobby budget most months.  Her male counterpart is sadly M4, I would love to be able to use Dusk but there certainly is not the content around to make the figure viable for me.  I am not expecting the Dusk content to match M4, that would be impossible in the short to medium term, but the content that is available makes Dusk a non starter for me.

That is an idea, it'll take a lot of work... but if they could perfect it and you could just drag whatever clothing item from whatever figure onto Poser's latest figure and it just fit like magic. I think that would be a real winner.

"The third point is the issue for me,  I have been using Dawn SE for a number of years now and I have been more than happy doing so plus I can find enough content to spend my hobby budget most months.  Her male counterpart is sadly M4, I would love to be able to use Dusk but there certainly is not the content around to make the figure viable for me.  I am not expecting the Dusk content to match M4, that would be impossible in the short to medium term, but the content that is available makes Dusk a non starter for me."

***************************************************************************************************************************************************

1. Load M4 and ZERO as well as LOCK him.

*

2. Load Dusk and SUPERIMPOSE him over M4. (Basically adjust the scaling and his pose so that he "fits" M4 like a (body) glove.)

*

3. Use the Morphbrush to improve the fit/shape by using M4 as the "target".

*

4. You might have to re-name/regroup some of Dusk' body parts to match M4 grouping. You can do it in Poser, but it's easier in a dedicated modeller. I use Wings3D and yes, I'm very, VERY oldschool.

*

5.Create a new figure based on the resculpted/modified mesh by using M4 as the donor rig.

Use MorphManager, NOT the Poser morph transfer to copy the head morphs from the original Dusk cr2 to your "Dusk-to-M4" figure.

*

6. Adjust the eyeball centers and perhaps head and neck rigging.

Hmm, I just checked the Dawn/Dusk rigging, and you'd need to readjust the centers of the tounge actors and the jaw, too.

(BTW, that's why I prefer simple rigged figures without extra bodyparts.)

*

7. If you want you can transfer M4's body morphs over to your new figure, this time DO use Poser's built in morph transfer.

*

8. Now yoy can use any type of M4 poses and clothes with Dusk without any need for conversion.

*

*
*
*

BTW, I did this a long time ago, making the P4 Dork compatible with M4 clothing, as well as making Posette compatible with V4 clothing.

These are NOT "Frankensteined" figures, but both meshes are 100% Dork as well as Posette.

That is what the fitting room is for, hornet3d.

It does quite well going from M4 to Dusk - if that doesn't work (and sometimes there are issues), then try Xdresser.

Between the 2, I moved just about everything to Dusk.

ssgbryan posted at 12:31 PM Fri, 9 February 2024 - #4481401

Chris is the one that invented the saying "Daz Soon" - he has stayed to form.

As far as the 3rd issue - I really feel that 'Rosity should focus on the fitting room, and come up with a plan for converting shoes.

The fitting room gets us 90% there, but the last 10% would take 90% of the work.  However, once it is done, we have another giant leap forward.  It wouldn't matter who the clothing was made for originally.

LOL. You might have a point there. But jeez, at one point Chris said Dawn 2 coming out maybe next month. It's been years since then.

Clothes aren't actually the biggest issue for me. It's morphs and textures. LF and LH are lacking in diversity, and IMO, it's the morphs and textures that are the issue. If you want to depict a middle aged Black man, say, or an elderly Asian woman, you're kind out of luck.

One particular example: nearly all the LF textures have eyebrows that are really thick, and square on the inner ends. That is fashionable now; all the models and actresses have brows like that these days.

But it hasn't been popular in the past, and doesn't look natural. So if you want to render a 50s glamor girl, or a historical heroine...the textures look anachronistic.

CobraBlade posted at 3:38 PM Fri, 9 February 2024 - #4481405

That is an idea, it'll take a lot of work... but if they could perfect it and you could just drag whatever clothing item from whatever figure onto Poser's latest figure and it just fit like magic. I think that would be a real winner.

While this is a sweet idea, it would never happen. Rendo sells content for a living, if we could just re-use all the old content on every new figure with ease, we would never buy content again

Many (all?) Genesis figures come with 4th Gen (And even 3rd Gen) "legacy" shapes.

While these legacy shapes still feature the original Genesis rigging, it's quite easy to convert them to the original 3rd or 4th Generation Poser rigging.

Here is Genesis 2 Male converted into a native Poser figure, complete with Michael 4's shape and rigging:

This figure can use all M4 poses and clothing. Has a more realistic face, takes G2M textures and head morphs, and weighs 2/3rd less than M4 does.

Poser has such powerful tools, it's a shame they are hardly ever utilized to their full potential.

*

BTW, DAZ seems to be fine with the fact that pretty much all Genesis figures have one-click access to each others clothing, including the vast V4 and M4 wardrobe.

So, even though they see selling new clothing as their main buisiness model, they don't mind "hand-me-downs" cutting into their profit margin.

That makes me wonder if they'd be willing to "license" the V4 and M4 shapes and rigging to a third party.

All things considered, a "native" Poser figure, but with "out of the box" V4 and M4 clothing compatibility might make a good "interim" solution for the currently content starved Poser community.

(Not to mention that I find many V4/M4 clothing better made than their more modern counterparts, anyway)

This is great. Now, here is my question:

Can you share *how* you did that? With a step by step for end users who are clueless and may benefit? It is great to see that is *can* be done, but it's useless if people don't know how it is done, especially if it's done entirely inside Poser.

Here you go:

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2986273/lafemme2-to-v4-or-if-the-mountain-wont-come-to-muhammad

That's nice, but I specifically was curious about the Genesis part of your post. I know how to use the Fitting Room for clothes.

There is no difference between G2MtoM4 and LF2to V4.

Exept that the G2MtoM4 is easier, especially if you have the M4 legacy shape for G2M.

Load M4, add G2M to the scene and fit him over M4.

Take especial care of the hands, as even with the legacy M4 shape, G2M and M4's hands are different.

*

Combine the hip and waist into a single object. (This actually can be easily done using the grouping tool)

(If I remember correctly the eyes have to be renamed, too. But I'd have to check that)

Export as object. Import again.

Use the Setup room to transfer G2M's original rig for the correct head rigging, then transfer the M4 rigging directly in the Pose room, to get the correct body rigging.

Maybe adjust the rigging here and there if necessary. Done.

(I used my weightmapped M4-17K as the rigging donor)

*

BTW, this already IS "higher level Poser tech". In my experience hardly anyone will ever attempt to do something like this.

99% of Poser users can't even  pose a figure from scratch, less alone modify it from the ground up. (And there is nothing wrong with it, because that is what Poser is all about: Saving you from having to do everything from scratch so that you can spend more time rendering)

*

So, my intention is not to teach the average Poser user how to do it. (Although I'd be happy if someone would try it out)

But to give a "proof of concept". THIS is what Poser could actually do, so that they are less satisfied with what they actually get.

Thanks for the insults; way to tell me you don't care for the average, normal, everyday end user  who would like to learn. 

This is exactly why I am despairing for this program's future.

The problem is not that people are not willing to share their knowledge. The problem is that the past and present owners of Poser constantly made the wrong decisions, completely misjudging their customers.

The average Poser user IS all about "load, render, post to the gallery, repeat". And as I said multiple times over the last 23 years, if that's what makes them happy, there is nothing wong with it.

If Poser would have originally come with the figures I wanted, I'd be exactly the same. While it's satisfying to be able to do whatever I want with a figure, all this tinkering takes time away from actual rendering and story telling.

If you search my name, you find that I posted quite a lot of tutorials over the time, but hardly anything ever resulted in someone trying to recreate my efforts. People are happy to download an already finished figure, but hardly anyone ever tries to do something on his own.

This is no insult, but just the way the Poser community works.

I think I already described thoroughly how to create a "to-V4" or "to-M4" figure, but you actually do need a working knowledge of how to pose and scale a figure yourself, how the MorphBrush works, how the Setup room works, how to rig, how to open a cr2 and an object file in a word editor and how to edit those files.

Explaining all this at true "beginners level" for every little step with the corresponding pictures would probably take me several days to set up.

And the result would probably be just a few Thank You's and ataboys and nothing else. Sorry, but after 23yrs I'm too tired and also cynical for that.

The days of Dr Geep and all that pioneering work are over. People want instant gratification these days.

*

So, if I post something these days, it's more aimed at the current owners of Poser, not the "General Audience".

It's "Look folks, this is what a Poser figure can actually do  - Why can't the figures that come with $200 Poser do it?"

The better the people are informed, the less inclined they are to buy Poser in it's current state. The less copys of Poser are sold, the more inclined it's owners will be to make better decisions in the future.

There is a difference between "supporting" and "enabling".

(For the record, I bought Poser 11 TWICE and paid full upgrade price for Poser 13)

*

At least commercially, Poser is completely dead. G8 and G9 rule undefeated but even they will soon be replaced by AI.

The old hands either defected to DAZ, dead, or are cynical old bast*rtds like me, so there isn't much hope for revoking any type of "community spirit".

Any change for the better must come from those who have the power to make the actual decisions.

I really LOVE Poser to pieces. I wouldn't blink an eye paying $1000 for a copy that has certain features that would improve my work.

I'd also happily pay $500 for a Poser figure that makes full use of all the abilities Poser actually has.

*

But given the state of things as they are right now, the only "Love" I can still show Poser is sometimes being a (small) thorne in their side.

Any "real" support (like a truly elaborate tutorial, for example), would just enable them on their path of bad decisions.

*

Still, if someone wants to ask me a serious question about Poser figure design and mods, just PM me. I'm a bit tired of public discussions and locked threads.

;-)

What is stopping Poser from having "one-click sharing of clothes"?

"What is stopping Poser from having "one-click sharing of clothes"?"

*

That's a good question. I made a tutorial back in 2013 how to turn Genesis (1) into a native Poser figure. (No DSON needed, faster loading times, etc)

The "on the fly" UV-Swapping didn't work anymore, but the "clothing - autofit" STILL WORKED! INSIDE POSER!

Sooo....

1. This was proof that Poser was perfectly capeable to support it's own Genesis-type figure. ONE well designed mesh that could be anything from young woman to old man, from Zombie to baby, from monkey to monster.

2. If clothes can one-click "autofit" to a completely different body shape, then it should be perfectly possible to have them one-click "auto-convert" from one figure to another. (Probably a "translator" figure would be needed though. But making these is just a matter of hours as I've just shown with LF2-to-V4)

But I'm no coder, and probably some real coder will soon join in, explaing to us why this is all A VERY BAD IDEA, and that it is much more benefitial for the community to have a new set of hastily designed, poorly supported one-off figures that are as quickly forgotten as they were created, with every new iteration of Poser.

*

Rather than to shamelessly copy (and probably improve) a method that obviously works very well for DAZ.

(After all, they copied Poser in the first place)  ;-)

But as I said, that was in 2013!!!

I've long given up to make sense of this, and went on my own merry way. I even "invented" my own posing system to make my figures look more realistic.

But I still dream of a native Poser figure that:

1. Looks like a real person. Regardless what body type it is morphed into.

2. Bends like a real person. Even in extreme positions.

3. Does have genitals like a real person. Or not. (There was nothing wrong with Poser's genital switch. It was just swapping hips)

4. Has as few polygons as possible, but as much as needed. (And is not afraid of tris or poles to achieve an efficient topology, because Poser doesn't mind them)

5. Has a cr2 that is as simple as possible, so even dummies like me can hack and edit it.

6. Relies on morphs and morphs alone, because with Poser's ability to inject morphs only as needed, this is way more practical than a complicated rigging armature.

*

AI will probably "kill" this hobby, anyway, but I'd rather see Poser go out with a BANG, than with a whimper.

"What is stopping Poser from having "one-click sharing of clothes"?"

*

That's a good question. I made a tutorial back in 2013 how to turn Genesis (1) into a native Poser figure. (No DSON needed, faster loading times, etc)

The "on the fly" UV-Swapping didn't work anymore, but the "clothing - autofit" STILL WORKED! INSIDE POSER!

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2874695/print

Sooo....

1. This was proof that Poser was perfectly capeable to support it's own Genesis-type figure. ONE well designed mesh that could be anything from young woman to old man, from Zombie to baby, from monkey to monster.

2. If clothes can one-click "autofit" to a completely different body shape, then it should be perfectly possible to have them one-click "auto-convert" from one figure to another. (Probably a "translator" figure would be needed though. But making these is just a matter of hours as I've just shown with LF2-to-V4)

But I'm no coder, and probably some real coder will soon join in, explaing to us why this is all A VERY BAD IDEA, and that it is much more benefitial for the community to have a new set of hastily designed, poorly supported one-off figures that are as quickly forgotten as they were created, with every new iteration of Poser.

*

Rather than to shamelessly copy (and probably improve) a method that obviously works very well for DAZ.

(After all, they copied Poser in the first place)  ;-)

But as I said, that was in 2013!!!

I've long given up to make sense of this, and went on my own merry way. I even "invented" my own posing system to make my figures look more realistic.

But I still dream of a native Poser figure that:

1. Looks like a real person. Regardless what body type it is morphed into.

2. Bends like a real person. Even in extreme positions.

3. Does have genitals like a real person. Or not. (There was nothing wrong with Poser's genital switch. It was just swapping hips)

4. Has as few polygons as possible, but as much as needed. (And is not afraid of tris or poles to achieve an efficient topology, because Poser doesn't mind them)

5. Has a cr2 that is as simple as possible, so even dummies like me can hack and edit it.

6. Relies on morphs and morphs alone, because with Poser's ability to inject morphs only as needed, this is way more practical than a complicated rigging armature.

*

AI will probably "kill" this hobby, anyway, but I'd rather see Poser go out with a BANG, than with a whimper.

randym77 posted at 7:59 PM Fri, 9 February 2024 - #4481415

LOL. You might have a point there. But jeez, at one point Chris said Dawn 2 coming out maybe next month. It's been years since then.

Clothes aren't actually the biggest issue for me. It's morphs and textures. LF and LH are lacking in diversity, and IMO, it's the morphs and textures that are the issue. If you want to depict a middle aged Black man, say, or an elderly Asian woman, you're kind out of luck.

One particular example: nearly all the LF textures have eyebrows that are really thick, and square on the inner ends. That is fashionable now; all the models and actresses have brows like that these days.

But it hasn't been popular in the past, and doesn't look natural. So if you want to render a 50s glamor girl, or a historical heroine...the textures look anachronistic.

Shhhh......

Don't say that LF & LH are All Caucasians, all the time.  It sets people off that can't actually do math.  I have run the numbers - Poser (and DS) figures are over 90% Caucasian - it has always been this way.  As I said earlier, Poser has devolved from Make anything you can conceive of to Make a generic pin up image with an instantly forgettable white girl. 

The whole reason I use every figure I have collected since Dec 2004 is that is literally the only way to get a wide variety of ages, shapes, colors, and such.

There are a number of texture conversion products have have been around, and then abandoned - the last was Texture Transfer.

It works really, really well and a number of us were begging Blacksmith3d to take our money for new plug-ins, but it looks like they have gone to that great software repository in the sky.

Texture Transformer would have also needed updating to support PBR type maps (normal, metallic, roughness, etc), as well as the ability to save SuperFly shaders. 

DeeceyArt posted at 7:08 PM Wed, 14 February 2024 - #4481622

Texture Transformer would have also needed updating to support PBR type maps (normal, metallic, roughness, etc), as well as the ability to save SuperFly shaders. 

While yes, that would have been nice, but any of them could be converted by plugging them into the diffuse node and saving as a temporary shader file. It's not as nice as a auto-convert, it was better than nothing