Renderosity Forums / Poser 13
Welcome to the Poser 13 Forum
Forum Moderators: nerd, RedPhantom
(Last Updated: 2024 Sep 29 10:28 am)
Subject: Future of Poser
DS and Poser use entirely different weight mapping techniques, and rigging and morphs are the most time consuming part of content creation. Not quite double the work to make it work in both, but commercial products are expected to meet a higher standard than you might expect if it is for your own use.
Using genesis clothing on Poser figures is another challenge, as the clothing would have to be reshaped to fit Poser figures and THEN rerigged and regrouped.
After all that is considered, content creators have to weigh whether nearly double the work would result in nearly double the sales.
Yes, Daz allowing their content to be used in Poser would be a win for every one. It's even technically possible. If you've been following the Poserverse since Poser 4 you know Daz used to support Poser. They decided to burn that bridge. They've been invited to build back a relationship multiple times. They aren't interested.
Totally agree with cappy3.Frustrated that Renderosity has become almost a Daz lite store With the only
Poser figure support is for La Femme, aka the Poser killer.I have actually spent the last week rediscovering
and rebuilding my Victoria 3 Runtime and been pleasantly surprised how nice it is,especially with addons such
as Corvas Simple Details shoulder fix,plus the amount of clothing,characters,etc I have accumulated over time
will keep me amused for quite some time.
@jimros
Would you explain to me what do you mean by the notion that LaFemme is the Poser killer?
What's wrong with her?
I have made some free stuff for her, you can find here on Renderosity, including morphs.
She is a nice piece of geometry and it has been fun to work with.
I agree with you that we lack modern content for Poser.
As long as we complain and wait for Daz to do us a favor, the future of Poser is to migrate to Daz.
I'm 58 years old now and I spend almost 20 years with Poser.
I don't want to use Daz Studio, I tried and I didn't like the way it works, looks and feels.
So, seems to me that we have to build our own world in Poser, so to speak.
You know what? The more I think about it, I will open a new thread to create a sort of wish-list of content we need in Poser.
Maybe you could do a list of things you want to use in Poser and I pick a thing or two, maybe someone else will do it too?
What do you think?
I agree with you on that point 100%.
That's why we need to create things for her ecosystem our self's.
Since most of the former Poser Content Creators have left the Poser Community for the more lucrative Marketplace Daz Studio we have to do it on our own.
I already started the new thread I mentioned in my first reply to you.
If you are interested, consider joining the conversation over there.
As I wrote, drop a list of your most needed things.
I can't promise wonders, but at least we have a base line from which we can start to make things happen.
Hot take: make LaFemme/LHomme figures more adult content friendly.
Have you seen the huge Adult Visual Novel market out there? That will definitely get some interest in Poser. Someone had to make a whole different LaFemme2 version to add female genitalia and, while I praise the effort, afaik it's not able to use LaFemme2 stuff easily on it so it's a clunky solution. On Genesis figures you just slap on the proper geograft and you are good to go (with G9 kinda messing things up a bit but still not as much)
If Reallusion also made their CC figures adult content friendly I'm sure they would also get more sales considering how good their apps are (CC and iClone) but that's also why they probably don't need to, plus they keep making it much easier to use their apps with figures other than their own.
Poser doesn't really have a selling point to stand out besides not needing a Nvidia card, which would be great for some wanting to make their own Adult Visual Novels if the figures could be used for that.
blackbonner posted at 4:46 AM Sat, 24 August 2024 - #4488696
@jimros
Would you explain to me what do you mean by the notion that LaFemme is the Poser killer?
What's wrong with her?
I have made some free stuff for her, you can find here on Renderosity, including morphs.
She is a nice piece of geometry and it has been fun to work with.
I agree with you that we lack modern content for Poser.
As long as we complain and wait for Daz to do us a favor, the future of Poser is to migrate to Daz.
I'm 58 years old now and I spend almost 20 years with Poser.
I don't want to use Daz Studio, I tried and I didn't like the way it works, looks and feels.
So, seems to me that we have to build our own world in Poser, so to speak.
You know what? The more I think about it, I will open a new thread to create a sort of wish-list of content we need in Poser.
Maybe you could do a list of things you want to use in Poser and I pick a thing or two, maybe someone else will do it too?
What do you think?
Much like communism, "better bending" was a red herring......
All of that nice geometry never translated into vendor support/content. From an end user perspective, neither of these figures brought anything to the table that we didn't already have. LF & LH were built to address vendor issues with making content - remind me again how that worked out, as far as lots of new content coming out.<Lots of angry ranting removed>
From an end user perspective, LF/LH is no different than any other post-V4 Poser figure. If you are doing single image stills of girl pinup art, she is ok. Move outside of that, and you will be spending more time converting legacy content for it's use than it was worth.
After you have converted everything you plan on using, there isn't an incentive to spend money on new content.
LF & LH were the 1st meshes that I truly never cared about due to the lack of vendor support. I have seen this movie too many times already. SM put the Fitting Room into Poser for a reason - and that reason was lack of vendor support.
<Lots of angry ranting removed>
If we build a new mesh, the vendors will come is the same failed strategy we have lived with since Poser 9.
Poser and that other program have completely different business models - yet the Poserverse keeps trying to use the other one. Poser is a toolbox that allows us to use whatever we want. That other program is like a gatcha mobile game - always nickle and diming you, while never fixing the underlying problems with the software.
Most vendors only make what they are personally interested in, and many were very, very adverse to learning the new tools that are in Poser, which leads to a figure having no overall direction. Rosity had the opportunity to address this with LF & LH, and they fumbled it about as badly as possible.
<Lots of angry ranting removed>
I would rather that 'Rosity work on improving the Fitting Room, and adding support for rendering with AMD graphics cards (via the Pro Render Engine - it is open source & they have a Cycles Plug-in). Then as end users, we can use whatever we want. Ken1171 has us covered with converting most DS content with his fine array of scripts.
Shoes - get us a shoe converter, it is the last piece to becoming figure agnostic.
<Lots of angry ranting removed>
What I want to see is NORMAL clothing for my characters. In it's lifespan, LF never got a week's worth of clothing that could be worn in an office environment. Now realize that LH got about 10% of that.
The issue is, once I get going with the fitting room, there is less & less incentive for me to purchase content.
With Poser 5, I could create anything I could imagine - with Poser 13, I can do pin up art - but not as well, nor as fast as I can in Stable Diffusion - for a lot less money, as well.
You keep saying there isn't a week's worth of office clothes. But looking in the marketplace, I've found several. I'll admit I've never worked in an office, I've always been able to wear jeans to work.
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/137445/la-femme-business-suit 3 color options
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/151559/office-suit-viii-for-la-femme 6 color options
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/152499/da-femenin-for-office-suit-viii 6 color options
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/154416/nine-to-five-for-office-suit-viii 8 color options
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/163519/thetrenchcoatset-for-lafemme2-lafemme-and-v4 1 color
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/163527/ra-for-the-trench-coat-set 5 color options
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/149954/dynamic-skirt-set-for-dawn-and-la-femme 6 color options though you might need to add a blazer to this
That's for different geometries with 35 different color options.
Lafemme has clothes available. You just need to take the time to look for it
Available on Amazon for the Kindle E-Reader Monster of the North and The Shimmering Mage
Today I break my own personal record for the number of days for being alive.
Check out my store here or my free stuff here
I use Poser 13 and win 10
... If I had a penny for every time I've seen ssgbryan say "a week's worth of office clothing" in these forums, I might be able to retire by now LOL. You're the only one, Bryan, sorry to say that. You can't really make it worth our working time alone. You don't speak with your wallet, we won't go out of our way to please you single-handedly specially when I don't see you buying much. This is work for me, my income is on the line.
The thing is, very few of us Poser vendors are left. We can't suppy a figure like V4 could, because in V4 times there were hundreds of vendors making stuff for her. We can't supply figures like DS Genesis, because there are thousands of vendors making stuff for that.
And why is it that only a few of us are left? Honestly, from my PoV there are a few reasons:
-A lot of us - specially tool creators - have passed away or retired
-Poserdom doesn't know how to bring new people in. The software doesn't make itself known, or desirable for modern audiences.
-It's very frustrating to make content for Poser. While the process is simpler, it doesn't automate anything for the end user, leaving vendors to have to hand-make each part of the process (like adding every single morph, making sure their mix doesn't create pokethrough, etc etc), and there are so many bugs through creation that you end up having to redo what you've made several times because something got corrupted or just weird at some point.
-Poser was stuck in limbo for many years, abandoned while other programs evolved and got better.
-Current Poser ownership IS doing what they can to make it better, and I myself have seen a few of my wishlist requests for new features be added in the past couple of years, but I don't think they have enough staff to keep up and try to fix everything in a timely manner.
What to do about that? I don't know, you tell me. I do what I can, which is making figures that are pretty out of the box and as easy to create content for as Poser can possibly allow (and anyone out there who's made conforming clothing for LF and for LF2 can tell you that it's easier for LF2 - but how many of those are left? Me plus one or two other vendors?), and even for those I try to make it so previous content can more easily be used. Other than that? I'm a single person, and I'm not a developer. Can't do any more than that.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
If I can ha e one request. Just once, maybe wuth the cooperation of vendors and the software writes, write a content creator primer for the modern iterations of Poser. The software doesn't attract new vendors because content creation for it is an arcane mystery and it's secrets are hidden in private conversations, three forums, two if which are extinct, four manuals (with no actual examples) and ancient primers from the early 2000s.
I keep wanting to circle back to that. At some point, I had an agreement with Jenn to make tutorials for Poser - but she had to leave, and that was left out in the open, and then I got (extremely) busy working on LF2 and now LH2. And after LH2, I'll need a good break for mental health reasons - after that, I might again try to go back to that project.If I can ha e one request. Just once, maybe wuth the cooperation of vendors and the software writes, write a content creator primer for the modern iterations of Poser. The software doesn't attract new vendors because content creation for it is an arcane mystery and it's secrets are hidden in private conversations, three forums, two if which are extinct, four manuals (with no actual examples) and ancient primers from the early 2000s.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
RedPhantom posted at 6:49 PM Sun, 22 September 2024 - #4489618
You keep saying there isn't a week's worth of office clothes. But looking in the marketplace, I've found several. I'll admit I've never worked in an office, I've always been able to wear jeans to work.
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/137445/la-femme-business-suit 3 color options
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/151559/office-suit-viii-for-la-femme 6 color options
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/152499/da-femenin-for-office-suit-viii 6 color options
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/154416/nine-to-five-for-office-suit-viii 8 color options
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/163519/thetrenchcoatset-for-lafemme2-lafemme-and-v4 1 color
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/163527/ra-for-the-trench-coat-set 5 color options
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/149954/dynamic-skirt-set-for-dawn-and-la-femme 6 color options though you might need to add a blazer to this
That's for different geometries with 35 different color options.
Lafemme has clothes available. You just need to take the time to look for it
I have seen all of these. The reason they aren't in my runtimes is they are not office appropriate. None of these work in a white collar environment. If those skirts went to at least just above the knee or to the knee, they would be fine - otherwise, we are having Basic Instinct at the office. I've seen people sent home for the mini-skirts. There is also the issue of the colors.
See this as an example:
or
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=female+office+wear&atb=v344-1&iax=images&ia=images
Lots of dark colors, solids, sleeves on the shirts, no cleavage, and skirts that end at the knee or just above it.
The LF "business suit" is great if you are going out on a date, or the club, or shopping; just not the office - the same can be said for all of the color combinations. And that was so easy to fix too - run the skirt to the knees & then change the colors. This is what kept getting me so frustrated - 99% of the way there, and then the vendor snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.
As far as the trench coat outfit, it isn't worth $14 - It looks like something from the V2 era (I have loads of better looking outfits for V2 & V3 that have survived a trip through either the fitting room, Xdresser, or Wardrobe Wizard for post V4 figures.
The dynamic set has a similar issue - the lack of sleeves on the top.
Further to Rhia474's observation, the latest edition of the Poser 13 manual appears out-of-date. Recently I searched for insight on the Subsurface Skin's ScatterScale function/settings and found nothing using the manual's search function. Clicking around didn't help.
As for content development, I've held off posting this because I don't know how many users this affects. But at least for me, new figures that only have dynamic clothes are non-starters and will not replace the SASH2019 version of V4.2+ I use. I may be the only one, but I get dynamic clothes to drape correctly less than 10% of the time. In fact, I bought an item that included two versions of the same thing plus a simulation and instructions. One draped as it should have. The other didn't even come close, leaving me to wonder whether the vendors even understood this process. And for those who actually figured out the dynamics, it seems dynamic clothes may work well for single character pin-up renders. But for those of us who create scenes that include, for example, three characters on a sidewalk, buildings in the background, and a motion-blurred car driving down the street, dynamic clothing completely hoses up the render. I realize that may be simply due to my lack of knowledge, but as Rhia474 noted, a little information may cause some of us to finally understand the dynamic morass and buy new products. As it is now, I'm sticking with conforming clothes that I can adjust/alter with the morph and grouping tools. I would very-much like an up-to-date tutorial on how to convert dynamic clothing to conforming and how to actually make conforming clothing conform. But if LF2.0 and Dawn2.0 are dynamic clothing only figures, SASHA 2019 will remain my figure of choice.
As always, just my contribution to the marketplace of ideas.
The US National Security Agency's dress code emphasizes that what's in a person's mind is more important than what is on their body. My company, which supported NSA, adopted the same view. These days, I mix and match 3D Age's outfits and have never had one of my characters sent to the virtual 3D HR department. However, everyone else's experience may differ . . .
DeeceyArt posted at 4:48 PM Mon, 23 September 2024 - #4489653
To be fair, they're FAR easier to make. Skin tight clothes are much easier to rig, and the less coverage means there's less pokethrough to worry about.And yet the barely there bikinis and undies just keep on coming. LOL
The thing with "office" suits is:
-They're hard to model. You have to worry about things like fabric behavior, the cut and tailoring of the suit, etc.
-You have to rig everything thinking of how things will poke through the figure AND each other - a sweater might poke through the pants, etc.
-Rigging rigid things like buttons is a nightmare.
-And the more fabric coverage, the more you have to worry about texture stretching at the joints.
-Now add having to add working morphs to all that AND still worrying about all that pokethrough and stretching.
Now consider: all that extra work, AND very few people actually purchase that kind of outfit.
And then you understand why vendors don't really make that stuff.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
It baffles me that dynamics are so little used. It took me a while to internalize the process and also to learn to ALWAYS check the individual product readnes/ instructions because every vendor does it just a bit different, but the basics are not that hard. And the results are lovely.
There are also, ironically, more tutorials around about dynamic clothes than many other features of Poser.
It's several extra steps, many users are intimidated by that. Many users are even too intimidated to use any of the other tabs in Poser, apart from the default pose/preview tab.
That's why we've taken to including scripts to automate the dynamic simulation process. I'm not sure if that's actually making more people dare to use dynamics, but I've beem making sure to always include those.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
I totally get it as it is great on the short term. The problem with scripts is that as soon as there is a Python version update, they will need updating. As we saw it many times with excellent scripts, they become unusable the second the original creator disappears/ stops supporting Poser. Unless a script is supplied with the program it is a risk to rely on in such a small ecosystem.
I mean, yeah, every user should learn how to set things up by themselves, but the best we vendors can do is something like this. We have no shortage of tutorials on that matter, at least.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
The scripts that usually fail are those that are compiled PYC. If they are left uncompiled they should work unless there is a change to the syntax rules, and even then, it would be fairly simple to fix the error. If not the that user then they could ask and someone can give the fix in a post. The same thing happened to PE when Poser 11 came out. The script was setup to work with Poser 9 OR Poser 10. By changing a single line in the script it was possible for it to work with 9 OR 10+.
Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13
hi all,
(sérieusement, je suis utilisateur depuis poser 3 et je crée du contenu gratuit depuis des années. renderosity a été le pire gestionnaire du logiciel, et semble complètement dépassé... ils devraient revendre la licence Poser à une autre société qui la développera. Pour renderosity, posséder Poser était la solution pour avoir le contrôle sur les fans... et depuis, les choix stratégiques commerciaux ont été très très mitigés ! je ne veux pas être méchant mais ils sont vraiment à côté de la plaque ! exemple : poserfusion permettait d'interagir avec les 4 grands noms de l'industrie 3d. D'ailleurs daz3d ne s'est pas trompé, ils ont créé daz-bridge, pas à la hauteur à mon avis et moins interporable que poserfusion.)
seriously, i've been a user since poser 3 and i've been creating free content for years. renderosity has been the worst manager of the software, and seems to be completely outdated... they should resell the Poser license to another company that will develop it. For renderosity, owning Poser was the solution to have control over the fans... and since then, the commercial strategic choices have been very very mixed! i don't want to be mean but they are really off the mark! example: poserfusion allowed interaction with the 4 big names in the 3d industry. Besides daz3d was not mistaken, they created daz-bridge, not up to par in my opinion and less interporable than poserfusion.
i think renderosity killed the Poser software...
best regards
je pense que Renderosity a tué le logiciel Poser...
"Renderosity has been the worst manager of the software"
ok ok I'm gonna give my input here from someone who has been usiing Poser since Poser 1, and creating content for it since Poser 5: no, Renderosity hasn't been the worst. Renderosity might have been the one with less resources though.
Smith Micro took good care of it for a while, then as soon as it was no longer as profitable, they just completely cut up the entire development team and abandoned it. THAT was the worst part, because those years of complete radio silence were the ones that allowed all other programs to race well past Poser technology-wise and take almost all its users and content creators. With Renderosity, what happens is that Poser is now in the hands of a company that has more interest in it (as it also sells content for it), but also didn't have prior experience with developing software (it was a website development company), as far as I know. The team is capable, but small. Fixes and new features come slow.
The thing is, yes, they come slow, and don't look flashy - because every new company that got their hands on Poser tried to give it new exciting features, but just hacked them onto the program without fixing the underlying tech to make it work smoothly. We're left with a program that has so many bugs and limitations accumulated from that frankensteining of different teams. It's like a house that was built to be a single-floor house, but then every new buyer of it kept building new floors one atop the other without fixing the foundations. It's starting to crack at the walls. If it continues like this, it's gonna crumble over its own weight and get destroyed.
What Renderosity has been doing is, as well as they can, they're tweaking the foundations of the house so that it can support new weight. We've already had a revamp of Superfly, that now allows them to update with newer versions of Blender's Cycles faster than before - when every new GPU model required an entirely new Poser version to be supported. Things like old rigging bugs are getting fixed - it's no longer a complete nightmare to use the Joint Editor! - and other things under the hood are getting fixed. What this means is that end users almost don't see any changes, but if this wasn't done, the entire program would be unusable soon.
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Dealing with technical debt while maintaining compatibility can be a developer nightmare. turning a program started when cpu had one core, 16 bits and so few Ghz to the massively parallel nowadays architectures is challenging too. Covering the code with unit tests is mandatory before refactoring seriously, but it cannot be seen by users.
I don't think it's dead. But the team cannot get open source code taken from other projects in it only.The last release came with this intriguing sentence :
This release marks a change of direction
for the Poser development team. Customers can expect ongoing updates to
Poser 13 for the next 12-24 months as the team explores new
technologies for the next major version of Poser.
so i believe they gave up and try to start something else, we just can try to guess what : Transform poser into a paying Blender plugin for posing ?
Smith Micro took good care of it for a while, then as soon as it was no longer as profitable, they just completely cut up the entire development team and abandoned it. THAT was the worst part, because those years of complete radio silence were the ones that allowed all other programs to race well past Poser technology-wise and take almost all its users and content creators. With Renderosity, what happens is that Poser is now in the hands of a company that has more interest in it (as it also sells content for it), but also didn't have prior experience with developing software (it was a website development company), as far as I know. The team is capable, but small. Fixes and new features come slow.
This. As one of those who was blindsided by Smith Micro in an all hands on deck telephone meeting (three days before Thanksgiving 2016), the way Smith Micro let the entire Poser team go was BRUTAL. The meeting was not even 15 minutes long and email accounts were locked and closed within that time. The team was later replaced with people that knew little to nothing of Poser and the application languished for five years. At least Renderosity had the smarts to hire back some of the original development team and get the application back on track.
Meanwhile, Smith Micro's stock is floundering and hanging on a knife's edge.
Is development at Rendo slow? Yes. But at least it's moving and heading in a better direction. God, I hope they don't tie Poser to a specific modeling application. That would be a huge mistake.
lsauvage posted at 8:29 AM Fri, 27 September 2024 - #4489790
so i believe they gave up and try to start something else, we just can try to guess what : Transform poser into a paying Blender plugin for posing ?
That would make absolutely no sense. Specially considering that the vast majority of remaining Poser users seem to stay for the user interface simplicity.
DeeceyArt posted at 12:03 PM Fri, 27 September 2024 - #4489797
As one of those who was blindsided by Smith Micro in an all hands on deck telephone meeting (three days before Thanksgiving 2016), the way Smith Micro let the entire Poser team go was BRUTAL. The meeting was not even 15 minutes long and email accounts were locked and closed within that time.
Oh god, I didn't know it was THAT bad. :(
- - - - - -
Feel free to call me Ohki!
Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.
Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.
Privacy Notice
This site uses cookies to deliver the best experience. Our own cookies make user accounts and other features possible. Third-party cookies are used to display relevant ads and to analyze how Renderosity is used. By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understood our Terms of Service, including our Cookie Policy and our Privacy Policy.
Hello, I have been using Poser since Poser 4. I love the program, through all the different versions and ups and downs. My concern for the future of
the program is real. I am at the point in my life where I do not want to learn another program if I don't have to. The real thing holding back the possible future of
Poser is the content. Is there really no chance/way to build a relationship with Daz to have their newer models/content to be able to work inside Poser? The
amount of content missed out on is really annoying. I really like the Superfly renderer now, and would love to be able to work with some of the newer models
and content that Daz puts out. What is holding this back? I think it would be a win/win for both companies. I am not well versed in all the technical under the
hood stuff, so maybe the answer is very simple that I just don't understand. Thanks in advance.