Hi fellow Poser users,

I'm working on some textures for a piece of clothing for Lafemme right now.
The way I work on that is to load the figur and the untextured clothing in the viewport, set some light, head over into the material room, lay out some basics.
Then I open up Krita, load the texture template of the clothing and start working on the textues.

To check for the look and progress of the texture, I save steps of the texture, head over to Poser again and connect the texture to the base material.
In that ongoing process, I switch from Krita to Poser, back and forth, saving the texture under the initial name and file typ, PNG or JPG for example.
In previous versions of Poser, I just had to push the Reload Texture button and the texture got updated to the one I saved last.

This seem to be broken.

Also, when I use the file browser dialog in the image map to locate the image source and chose the latest version of the texture, I used before, it ignores the alterations and shows the "older" version of the texture.

I assume this data is comming from the cache.
I have to delete the Image Map node, create a new one and search for the texture file again.

The fun part is, the Reload Texture function works perfectly fine...when I'm in the Pose Room.
Poser, a box with a neverending supply of surprizes.

Changing zones may 'reawaken' the Material Room. However, you are right; that room has responded slowly when changes are made. Please submit a ticket to the tech team for assistance.

Are you using the cache? If so, go into Render settings and uncheck "Use Cache" I stopped using "png" and "jpg" files long ago. I use photoshop for all my materials and I save the files a "tif" files. Now once I add the tif to the image node in Poser. I change the tif and save it. Without closing Photoshop, I head over to poser and Render. Poser automatically applies the changes without having to go into the Material to swap out the png for the updated one. I don't know if your program can save tif files. Just a thought.

@kbdm257

I could be wrong, but I don't think it's the render cache that causes this problem. The viewport of the node editor in the materials room is not responding. After I saved my texture in Krita, the previous version of it is physical gone, overwritten with the new one. The only thing that stays the same is the name of that file.

Thanks for the advice in regards to the tif file format. Krita can handle tif and psd files alike. It should be no problem to check on your notion. If the file format is causing this behavior, I will let you know.

Thanks so far. I'll check out the suggested solutions and see if it works out.

I'm on the beta team. Yes, things changed with the render option of "Use Cache" in Superfly. I had the same problems with that and also problems where I changed a camera and it would not update the camera controls for focus. I'd get a blurry render. Not sure what "Use Cache" is good for at this point so I have to have it unchecked so I can work on images.

Same. Unchecked that option because it didn't update background nodes properly either.

If I understand it correctly this issue consists already since early poser versions. Updating a texture with the same name kept the old version in the viewport the change was only visible when rendering. Empty the cache did not fix this, the only solution was to slightly change the name of the texture and load it.

But this is a issue that is over a decade old or more :)

I guess that All the creators over the Past decades just did not see this as an error, by changing or altering a texture also changed the name of it . I also do it this way ever since, not sure if it cold  be a use full update if the viewport also would change a updated texture keeping the same texture name. Hope such a change would not affect the load as the engine might have to refresh the whole load of texture constantly this sure could be a heavy load ( Technically ) if just for the option " When If " a texture would be altered keeping the same name as shortcut to reload a new one. 

Sometimes it might be that there is a reason why this does not happen. A constant texture reload could sure affect allot of things and bring some unwanted surprises along especially if the texture has a slight path issue :)  this might remove the option " File Search " or give you constant errors on the viewport

Sorry, not factual. Use Cache is a Poser 13 function, definitely not a decade old. Let's not mush things together.

Updating a texture with the same name has no influence with the Cache , you can try with turned off cache but this will not make any difference. the cache will update as soon as you render.  you just can't  rework a texture while it is loaded in poser and expect that it will change in the viewport as soon  as you overwrite the Image. Same happens in blender btw. no constant refresh of loaded textures if you think you can update rework repaint textures in real time over a 3rd party paint app this will just not happen 

If you want to repaint a loaded texture and work at the same time with poser in the viewport you just need to save the new texture with a new name and replace the old one, not just overwrite as it is a new texture and you need somehow to send the information to the application that the loaded file has been changed, meaning the application needs to reload the texture in the viewport.

I've been repainting textures for years with no problem. You need to hit reload texture before it will change. And even then it might not update in the node preview unless you close that preview and reopen it. Or maybe that's my impatience. I don't have the fastest computer. And yeah, it shows in the scene preview if the shader is showing up there.

I seems odd that so many people have noticed this right after an update...

That isn't a coincidence.... 

I've noticed this in P12 & 13 and maybe even versions before that. If I apply a tex file as a mat and then I subsequently make a change to that tex file in my graphics app, I have to disconnect the node and replace it with any other tex file (doesn't matter what), and then save my update in the graphics app. I think I save my scene, too (I save it often). I then reconnect my updated tex file to the node. That way my change updates in the render (if not in the preview). I can't recall having any luck with Reload Textures.

Hm, if we have to alter the files name, what good does the "reload textures" do anyways?
I have checked the suggestions for using tiff files insead of png or jpg.
The reloading did not work any better, but the file size got higher, so I received the "Running out of memory" message.
Unchecking the Cache in the render setting did work, but I also had to clear the Render cache in the General Preferences under the Render tab.

I do think those "Bugs" get often noticed after an update because people seem to be more aware and almost expect to find something.

Yeah, it never really worked for me in any version, I always saved the images under a new name. Would be nice if it did work. Perhaps caching is the issue but slowing down renders for this once-in-a-while issue doesn't seem worth it. Reload ought to flush the cache anyway.

I never have had to change the file names before to get it to work.... 

And I have been helping with content since Poser 5.....

Something has changed, you really can't say it hasn't with this many people noticing a difference.

I would not be surprised if something may have broken when implementing other changes to the Material Room.  This feature is not commonly used so it could have been undetected for quite some time.

Tested the feature that you think is wrong also in Daz Studio , and see there it acts exactly the same way. If I overwrite a texture that I have loaded with a figure in the viewport it will not change, not even if rendering it. Poser does when rendering. In DS it loads after changing the Viewport from Iray-to texture shaded and back.

Blender also acts this way. We are talking here about the real time view of the model, I do not think that you are expecting that it while moving the model it also will check or reload textures on every frame movement. This would sure cause a overload as if you were to load the model on every frame new. how long does it take you to load the full model so imagine this happens on every frame when you move it.

it is something that is found in every poser version, In Daz Studio, In Blender , you just cant overwrite a texture while it is loaded and see this in real time. 

You have your model loaded, you go into a paint app pick one of the loaded textures, add a tatooo, and overwrite the texture that you have loaded on the model in your viewport in Poser Right? What must happen that it will load this texture? actually the same thing as if you would either load a new one, comparable with loading a material MT file to your model. But you never gave this command to poser by replacing the texture that is already loaded in the viewport. The model file has to be fully reloaded as it can't know witch of the textures has been overwritten. It is also a really unusual way to overwrite a texture while it is loaded in the 3D app this could cause really bad side effects. It is comparable to a program update, Why do you think that it will ask you to restart the program after files have been overwritten to take effect?  

No one should really be concerned how it works in other programs. Poser has a long history of things the devs didn't document and people relied on it working. That is no reason to paint this off as a never existed feature either. Poser used to pick up changes to textures, just by clicking render.... 100's of vendors probably relied on it doing so when making content.

I used it for years, and it recently changed. Just because another program doesn't have that feature, that shouldn't mean to just brush it off like it never existed.

Adding more steps to making content is the last thing Poser needs.....

I just found the Problem !

The solution would be a Pop Up to make users understand that something like this should not work, or should not be done.

Who the hell gets the Idea overwriting files that are in use anyway. try this with a Poser dll when it is running. or we could start to try overwriting Obj's while the figure is loaded, wonder what would happen. Would the figure change and keep the textures in real time, or just ignore it to prevent a crash ! and if a error pops up because we start replacing files that are in use start to spam tickets that the program is having an issue :) 

Ok Now seriously, I checked the Poser versions and compared when using the option to reload the textures and overwriting a texture. I did not change any cache settings! All worked as it should on my side no issues in any poser versions. some slight glitches yes but always ended up loading the new version. P13 latest release once did not want to load so I just jumped out of the material room and back and all was just fine. But have to say this method is not secure for creations, you lose time checking if everything worked right, you can't jump back undo redo, so really uncommon for texture creations or applying them! 

I do allot of texturing and always when working real time save the altered texture under a name that fallows 01 02 03 04, I can roll back compare the final will have the appropriate name. your workflow is clean and secure, and for sure not a time loss.

All Poser versions seem to be acting the same using the reload. A update suggestion for the "Update texture feature " would be to add visibel button in the material room for the ones who like to overwrite the texture maps.

The texture cache will be removed from the next service release. In the mean time just uncheck "Use Cache" on the SuperFly tab of Render settings. This feature was intended to speed up renders but it's getting way too much negative feedback.

I personally would leave it if making a next update, and if there were negative feedbacks just set it off Standard leave it a optional setting  :) less work and risk to Damage something. Often complaints do not really refer onto the right directions, could also be cause due wrong handling of the application it self. Allot of users are new or have no deep experience. So might be better leaving the cache optional, might save another drama LOL  ... one second longer render and they will make a ticket spam ! 

Versum posted at 3:55 AM Mon, 11 November 2024 - #4491249

You have your model loaded, you go into a paint app pick one of the loaded textures, add a tatooo, and overwrite the texture that you have loaded on the model in your viewport in Poser Right? What must happen that it will load this texture? actually the same thing as if you would either load a new one, comparable with loading a material MT file to your model. But you never gave this command to poser by replacing the texture that is already loaded in the viewport. The model file has to be fully reloaded as it can't know witch of the textures has been overwritten. It is also a really unusual way to overwrite a texture while it is loaded in the 3D app this could cause really bad side effects. It is comparable to a program update, Why do you think that it will ask you to restart the program after files have been overwritten to take effect?  

Sure, but when you click Reload Textures you are telling Poser that it needs to reload. It doesn't make sense for it to realize those changes automatically, but when you manually tell it to reload the images, it should reload the images.

ChromeStar posted at 8:17 PM Mon, 11 November 2024 - #4491266

Versum posted at 3:55 AM Mon, 11 November 2024 - #4491249

You have your model loaded, you go into a paint app pick one of the loaded textures, add a tatooo, and overwrite the texture that you have loaded on the model in your viewport in Poser Right? What must happen that it will load this texture? actually the same thing as if you would either load a new one, comparable with loading a material MT file to your model. But you never gave this command to poser by replacing the texture that is already loaded in the viewport. The model file has to be fully reloaded as it can't know witch of the textures has been overwritten. It is also a really unusual way to overwrite a texture while it is loaded in the 3D app this could cause really bad side effects. It is comparable to a program update, Why do you think that it will ask you to restart the program after files have been overwritten to take effect?  

Sure, but when you click Reload Textures you are telling Poser that it needs to reload. It doesn't make sense for it to realize those changes automatically, but when you manually tell it to reload the images, it should reload the images.

When I make a model, personally would not start to overwrite active stuff, sometimes it is essential that poser remains stable for some day's and better not having a crash or a shutdown. The better I work the way the program understands it best the less I risk for a crash or errors. I also learned the hard way trying shortcuts ( Do it quickly ) that caused to restart a skinning. Especially if you do not notice that an error occurred. 

" The way this problem is described is as if you would not even need to go into the material room anymore ( Why should you ) if you start to overwrite the texture externally and want to see the changes in real time, you might as well just stay in the pose room and see how your loaded model is affected by just hitting the Reload button. But really not the common way! "

if it is combined with changing slider settings of the materials then you might as well load a texture with a new name and use the material room the way it is supposed to be used.

If it isn't a common way, why did so many people notice the changes......

Anyone observed a Improvement in this matter after the  "Poser 13.3.895" update and removal of the cache, that just came out the other day ?

Had not the time jet to Install and check, would be interesting to know if this fixed the mentioned issues, and if there is a notable render slowdown as it was mentioned to be a feature intended to speed up renders  !

@versum

Can confirm, it hasn't changed. To have this feature functional, you have to uncheck the render cache and for whatever reason is behind it, it works in the pose room every time. Not so much in the materials room. I'm somehow predestined to find such glitches. In Poser 11/Smith micro era, there was a feature announced called 3D Path, remember?  I was crazy about it, it would be a game changer for animations, right? I found out that it didn't work, not even showed up in the menu, because, and I don't make this up, I use a German Keyboard layout. I purchased the English version of the software, installed it on a Windows 10 with German language package and it didn't work. I had to switch to the American English version on my OS and change the Layout of my Keyboard to get it to work. From that point on I'm not even sure, if I have a full featured version of Poser running. I mean, if what I described is possible, everything is, right?

Strange, on the update to 13.3.895 it says that the cache has been removed ! Then the feature to uncheck render cache should not be there anymore . Yup Poser can have nasty glitches but with time getting to  know these and avoiding a workflow that could cause these. Often there not really errors they come depending on how you work , like adding, removing, spawn assets, then jump from into the material room, setup room, back and forth can sure cause some nasty glitches :) . sometimes it even happens when working fast hanging with the mouse on a body-part in the hierarchy moving it up a row. But all in all is Poser quiet reliable since 11.1 . Updates upgrades often bring up new unknown issues, fix some thing and another one appears. 

Poser 13.3.895 - 2024-11-14
--------------------------------
- Use Cache removed from SuperFly render settings to avoid memory leaks. (App) #2421
- Exporting Partial scene no longer shows file chooser twice. (App) #2424
- Implemented displacement node for SuperFly materials. (App) #2234
- Displacement renders will no longer invert shading on curved surfaces. (App) #2285
- Documentation: Poser's system requirement for the Mac is now OS 12.7.1 (Monterey or higher). (App) #2422
- Documentation: Updated details for Default Exposure and Saturation in PostFX. (App) #1846

@Blackbonner So the 3D Path thing. That was added by the "B" team at SM. After Smith Micro canned the entire graphics department they tried to develop Poser for a while using the cheapest coders they could find on earth. The 3D path was one of those. It was 99% useless as they implemented it. If you wanted to track something in a straight line it could work. Of course, you don't need a 3D path to do that. Just one of many things the "B" team did to Poser while SM was wringing cash out of the Graphics division to bail out the divisions that were bleeding red ink.

@Versum The texture cache is/was intended to keep textures in memory between renders. So it you re-rendered there was a pretty noticeable improvement in the pre-render times. The stuff that goes on before the progress bar even starts moving. But there's so may ways that was breaking stuff we removed the feature for now. It caused too much trouble in other places.

@nerd3D

Thanks for the clarification. The feature never really worked on my machine, so I can't say I have made anything with it, expect for pulling my hair out trying to get it to work.

At this time around I also noticed when I use the metric system to which I use on a daily basis as a European, certain aspects of the software act differently. Simulations across the board put out strange results, in animation the dope shed editor won't do the operations like adding, deleting or copying key frames. If I would be superstitious, I would believe there is an evil ghost inside Poser who tries to drive me mad. In one of those forms back then someone told me to switch to the imperial system and voila, the ghost was gone. I have no idea if this is still an issue, since that time I have always set the system to imperial and run with it.