OK. At rist of getting kicked out of the forum; because, as many know my humor may hit "below the belt", I'm going to ask this question. Which seriously kinda bothers me. WHY IS PORNOGRAPHY ALWAYS CONSIDERED LACKING ARTISTIC QUALITY? I do have a life I've read a little, watched a little, and thought a little. But I think people often look down upon nudity just because it coule be considered porn. As we all are aware porn is simply images created to ilicit a sensual responce. I would think that sensual responce is more dificult than showing skin. Let's face it. Now all nude people excite us. Nor does just the idea of nude people excite us. HOWEVER, Britany Spears gets far more done with cheasy lyrics, riped jeans, and a halter top t shirt than 40 years of ice scaters at the winter olympics OR Ms America-Ms Universe pagents. So I suppose IF I could take a photo which constitutes PORN I would be honored. That would be one "HOT" photo as opposed to the usual. "Uh it looks kinda blury. What were you trying to do here. Reception" Notice I said PORN not SMUT. SMUT is tasteless, cheap, and lacking originality in my opinion. PORN is overly SEXY. I actually can't see anything wrong with being overly sexy. We, well most of us anyway, have participated in one "slow" dance in our life. We know if we enjoyed dance because of the emotions experienced or not. If a dance is fine. And if dimming the lights and giving and reciving a good kiss is fine; then why is a beautiful dress gown not alright? If a dress gown is alright, then lingerie should be fine. If lingerie is alright; what's wrong with nudity? Why is a painting by Michaelangelo, Gogan, and Rueben fine but Britany spears is tacky. Why is a photo of a lady bending backwards nude fine but a buxom lady holding eggs or a mellon in a magazine not? Just courious where others stand on this topic? Bsteph

BTW: Please don't get me wrong there is a "proper place" for porn. For example I don't expect to see it during Sat. morning cartoons. But is it really so bad while waiting at the DMV? =:-) > Bsteph

Oh No, more philosophy!!! LOL...See "Simple Answer to Simple Question" Thread earlier for my views on just about everything...some people view pornography/porn as an Art form, some don't...with "porn" though, there are other things to consider however...like, are the kids online??? - I really don't know Bsteph...but I'd thought I would give you a reply at least! Gotta go to bed now tooooo sleepy to think... :-)>

Well, love this question, cause women are such beautiful creatures :) Personally I think that porn(ografy) shows women the way the average guy would like them to be. With the 'average guy' I mean the kind of person who got married because he doesn't earn enough to afford a real butler. Since the only function of the photos is to satisfy people's sexual needs nobody would be interested in the quality of the photos....well, other than how Other than the money, I can't think of any reason why a women would want to do stuff like this. I don't mean to say that I'm some kind of saint, but I really think that it's boring and in no possible way could be a subsitute for the excitement and fun of real life (and it's just skips the most fun part of all, seducing ;) Well, the biggest problem with it for me is that women are much, much more charming, intelligent, gracious and compelling than men could ever possibly be, but porn(ografy) doesn't show anything of that.....it just doesn't show any respect to women at all. And perhaps that's the difference with Rubens or Gaugin.... And about that 2nd photo: If she feels happy walking around like that, I'd be the last one to tell her not to. But I don't feel anything when I look at that. Clothes, stockings, high heel shoes....it's just a pile of cotton and leather....or if you like 'plants and dead cows'. No, if I walk some where and this girl looks at me in particular way, just her eyes can just keep me awake for nights. But maybe I'm just an old fashioned fool :)

PC-Yes I agree. I perfer no children to be in ography(porn) and depending upon their age I wish them not to see it. Then there are those living on the farm so to speak. I mean ages ago. Sex was no mysterious thing! Personally I like "average" type people so they don't have to be "siliconed". The lady in the photo I would thing although she is quite good looking is not really special. It's just packaging. Rork-You are going to get me and yourself killed. "the kind of person who got married because he doesn't earn enough to afford a real butler." UH. I was maried cleaning was the furthest thought from my mind. Plus I did a lot of the cleaning. I agree the purpose of the onroP is to satify needs but the purpose of art is to satify a need also. I one less important than the other! I'm sure one is harder to satisfy than the other. "but I really think that it's boring and in no possible way could be a subsitute for the excitement and fun of real life " I agree one is not the same as the other. But you can win them all. I read books to experience something; but I am experiencing it second hand. I've never shot at someone with a rifle I've never been a spy, of a spaceship captain, of famous scientist however I still enjoy the books as I'm sure you do. "Well, the biggest problem with it for me is that women are much, much more charming, intelligent, gracious and compelling than men could ever possibly be, but porn(ografy) doesn't show anything of that.....it just doesn't show any respect to women at all." Well that's the hard part. And if the photographer is GOOD then some of that will come across IMHO. I do disagree with you however I do think it shows respect because it acknoledges ladies HOPEFULLY, as the beautiful people they are. Besides most people ( if not all ) want to be acknoledged as looking good and or sexy. The lady was a photo I had taken a few years ago. It was a photo that I felt comfortable with showing and that I felt that she would feel comfortable with being shown. I always try not to use someone elses work when I post. "if I walk some where and this girl looks at me in particular way, just her eyes can just keep me awake for nights. But maybe I'm just an old fashioned fool :)" I feel the same way but it's smiles. High heels always helps though! Bsteph

Okay, I want yone to jump up and scream the word PENIS. Ok, now I want you all to scream out the word VAGINA. U know, these are parts of our body. They are there, and we can attempt to hide them all we want, but they will always be there (barring some unforeseen pineapple accdent, but I won't get into that now...). The breast is essentially fatty tissue. They are also blatantly there, and no matter how much clothing there is covering them up, they are there. a woman Wearing a super tight t-shirt i find much more appealing than the same woman walking naked down the street, likely because I get to imagine what's there. Should that mean that women wearing clothing should be taboo, because me (and likely many other men) find it almost more eye catching than someone baring all? I find there are differences between art and porn. If you want porn, you go to the video store and rent it. There is a HHHUGE difference betwwen what's on your television,, and the Venus Demilo (typo), though both (most of the time) are/have naken women. The galleries are much in debate always over this. Porn is also something that the canadian government has never been able to give a complete and definite definition of, so its mostly p for public debate. Sex scenes in what are considered igh art films can easily be mistaken for porno, simply because its up to the person to make their own decision on the matter. To me, porn must involve the following to be porn. 1- Naked people engaging in sexual acts. Nudity is not required, always though. 2- A very small budget. 3- a poorly written and often hilarious story and plot. 4- a dirty old man in the corner of the room doing nothing but lick his lips while watching. I might call other things porn, but I'll be making up my rules along the way just like everyone else. As for the girl in the photo, you haven't seen nothing yet until you come to montreal for a few days. We are contantly called the sex capital of north america.

hmmm..... well, nudity, IMO, is far from porn. I would agree with Slynk on his general classification of porn, except I dislike him terming me as 'dirty' or indeed 'old'..... oh, and one I saw when I was 16 had a good storyline..... I'm what most perverts would call 'liberal minded', I mean nothing sexual I have seen (or had suggested, come to think of it) has ever offended me (when talking consulting adults), and I think the 'slow dances' you refer to are so far removed from pornography that I'm amazed they're in the same post....lol At the end of the day pornography is difficult to classify because 'prude levels' differ so much with individuals - but pornography has to be recorded to be classed, whether it be on audio, film or digital. Until then it is merely erotica. (",) btw, Bsteph, if you've got her number, you know my e-mail.... lol

While I enjoy the coments thus far I've only received one coment which stated that porno in their opinion just does not cut it. Compared to the real thing. Is that what makes porn a bastard child to the society at large. I'm discussing typical porn - erotica ( thanks Slynk ) here. Between consenting adults not including eels, chickens, sheep, dogs, or anything else. I it that one can do the real thing and it's better? I don't think that's the case because people buy travel magazines all the time. I've bought several memorabilia from places I've visited. I had no problem with the pictures. ALTHOUGH they are nowear as good as the real thing. I have never thought. " Nah, not as good as the real place" then left the souvineer on the shelf. Bsteph Bsteph

Notice how no ladies have taken part in this thread? I have to add my two cents worth as a lady Nudity I have no problem with because the human body is an incredible and beautiful creation. I think people (men in particular) spend way too much time with sex on their minds. That is something that should remain private and sacred. The obsession with sex or porn or whatever you want to call it, is a sign of the moral decadence of society. Sorry, maybe i should stop now.

Ok Cal thanks for opening the door for the women to respond. :~) I was trying very hard not to reply because I couldn't find a way to reply without sounding like a prude or something worse. You've said it quite nicely, and I agree with you. My opinion, there is absolutely nothing artistic about porn. An analogy.......the theatre -vs- live sex shows. Now erotica....there is a very fine line between crossing over into porn....sorry this one is very subjective...and one's erotica could be anothers porn. I too will shut up now, and not say another word on it. :~)

1st I wish to say thanks to everyone who replied. I also noticed that no ladies had replied and am glad that Michelle and Caledonia repled. I also noticed that most of the participants in the forum did not reply. Considering how nudity is often an issue I am a little frustrated that more didn't reply. Most importantly I do not intend to offend anyone. And I was trying to open a dialogue discretely. Caledonia-As a male and therefor a person who according to statistics spends at least 50% of the time with sex on his mind. ( I'm still confused by that one! ) I am intrigued by your statement. Is sex intimate, of course; private, perhaps; sacred, I reserve sacred for religion. No, I do not feel that you are a prude. And I am interested in you voicing you concern and ideas. IF you wish you can always instant message me. Or you can/should be able to sound off here. I can understand that I could be "off track". And actually I often use such forums as these to revise my impression and ideas. Michelle-Thanks also for responding. I extend to you the same thing that I swrote to Caledonia. Please, if you feel strongly, I think there is nothing wrong with voicing your opinions. Especially when asked for, which I did. Perhaps I am dense headed. But why do you say "there is absolutely nothing artistic about porn. An analogy.......the theatre -vs- live sex shows. " And please be blunt. It's hard to catch meaning when it's brief responces without visual cues. BTW-I'm gonna be honest I always think of erotica and porn as existing in the same basket. It's just one sound better pure semantics. Like eating veal as opposed to yound sheep. Bsteph

hmmmm....read Emmanuelle - that's erotica....Fanny Hill - that's erotica.....Playboy - that's mostly erotica.... Swedish/Dutch blue mags - porn..... (",) ....and why is it whenever you mention Emannuelle people start labelling you as a pervert? It's a damn good book in itself! Mind, anyone who spends the time and patience reading and understanding Fanny Hill MUST be a pervert...

Bsteph, I had no problem with your trying to get input and was not offended. I do not actually know much about porn, I just get tired of men staring at me all the time. I am glad to know there are honest gentlemen out there. Maybe sacred was the wrong word- I meant something to the effect of very special.

Hi Caledonia and all, You know I was thinking about the coment that sex is sacred. And I thought about my reply ( I reserve sacred for religion )..... Actually on second thought I thinks sex can be sacred. Definately not as sacred as religion; but very high on the list. At the same time I can understand that others don't feel the same way and I can respect that. I suppose it depends. Needs vs real honest love. Mechanics vs a joining. Cal- As you I'm sure are aware can live perfectly fine withought seeing porn. So you aren't missing much. BUT if you have to watch. For a class of something, to avoid being disgusted watch porn with the sound off at fast forward speed. The movie last shorter and is more fun in general. Actually this trick works with almost all movies. Jordy-Are you aware that Emannuelle has been turned into a cable movie? I saw it cinda once. I frankly was slightly bored and confused. It has also been turned into a comic as has the story of O. Haven't seen the Fanie Hill thing. BUT I have seen Barbarella! Not erotic or even sexual. It was silly!!! Now for your next reading assignment you have to read the entire GOR series by John Norman ( I think. ) Playboy is mostly erotica and informative interviews! Playgirl-Stupid posing. Very stupic posing. Hustler-Smut. O magazine ( That's the European O magazine. ) NOT OPRAH! Erotica, porn, humor, design, and expensive all at the same time. The magazine has Great paper though!!!! I have seen the Perils of Gwendoline. It silly, so silly, but interesting costumes! Bsteph