Scott, you inconsiderate slut. You teeming mass of ungrateful scum. You complete and utter moron. There. Now I feel so much better.... =)

this is not just a trend, click back to past gallery pages, ths has been going on for a long time Want to see something truly frightening? Go look at the most viewed image in the Poser gallery.

Nude figures have been, are, and always will be a staple of the art world. The human body is a beautiful thing...nothing wrong with celebrating it. Not the kind of art you enjoy? Want to see something different? So post it already! Let us see what YOU have in YOUR imagination. We'd really like to see it you know, its one of the things I like about this site. Also be sure you make comments on the artwork you like to encourage them to continue. Think about it, if you get 10 views with 10 comments saying they really enjoyed it for whatever reason they enjoyed it, or 1000 views and no comments at all, which tells you something about your art and which tells you your thumbnail was interesting?

"They aren't necessarily making the pictures for the benefit you the viewers, they are making them for themselves and are just sharing."

BRAVO DAVO!

Most viewed does not necessarily mean best or even most liked. Some things people will view just because they have to see if it's as bad as they thought it was from the thumbnail. Sometimes I will view those outlandish "huge boobie" pics because I have to see just how outlandish they really are. BTW, back to the original topic. {buying a texture, slapping it on vicky, putting a sword in her hand and giving her a lewd look and pose} I think the same holds true here for every kind of picture, whatever the subject. I've seen Bryce landscapes, Bryce lakes and Bryce skies (all generated with presets) so many times I could cry. Now it doesn't take much to generate a halfway decent scene with Bryce, but talk about BORING! But then, I don't really like landscapes in any medium, even really well done landscapes. I don't particularly like still lifes either. Never have. People interest me much more. Nude or otherwise. And animals, too. And please don't lump Renderotica's art automatically into the "buying a texture, slapping it on vicky, putting a sword in her hand and giving her a lewd look and pose" category. Do we have that there? Of course. We have newbies and people who are more concerned with what positions they can get Vicki into than with making art. But we also have some EXCELLENT artists there whose subject matter just happens to be erotica.

At the risk of getting "flamed" (or starting an ever bigger debate), I'm going to jump in here- Why do we so many nudes? Why do we see so much of the same stuff? Why do so many people use the "add-on-of-the-day"- the Xurge body armor, or fairies, or the latest figure in their image? (Yes, I know these are excellent products, but does "everybody and his brother" really need to post their picture of these things?) Before long, the gallery becomes one, big advertisement for these products! The simple anser: it's "easy" and it takes almost no thought or imagination. Slap a figure into a scene, slap on the "body armor", apply a pre-made pose, add pre-made lights, render the scene, and you have "art" ready to be added to the gallery for all the world to compliment you on. Where's the "artistry"? Where's the "craftsmanship"? A while back, I was thinking about posting a message along these lines, but I was afraid I might "offend" someone. With Poser, we have the ability to create ANY kind of artwork with people. We can make historical pictures from prehistoric days (and use the Poser dinosaurs) to images of today to images of the future. We can make political cartoons, ilustrations, or portraits. We can make copies of famous cartoons (such as The Far Side), or superheroes, or even our own comics. Yet, what do we do with this tool that we have? We make nude pictures of Vicky. The point is this: USE YOUR IMAGINATION. Sorry if I have to "yell" it, but maybe it will get the point across. Show some creativity! Make your art say something! A picture of "Mike in a fighting pose" (Mike posed in front of a white background) is not using your imagination... in fact, it's saying, "Look how lazy I am- I can pose Mike in a pre-made pose, but I couldn't even think up a clever title." Your art should make people think about what you've made. Make people laugh or cry or yell at you. Provoke them. Make them think about things. Make your own comments on the world. (Then again, I could just be "preaching to the choir" here in the forum. And, yes, I recommend that people "do I as do"- go check out my own gallery and see the variety of my images. You'll notice that I have no full-nude images and that my topics range from humor to political to super-heroes.) --John

John, the points are all valid. However... (yeah, you knew that was coming, didn't you...) Let's face it: this is a tough program for the newbie. It's not like Bryce, where you can go a long way on a little information. Poser requires a more in-depth awareness of how to shape the human body to convey something -- like, look at your hands. Fifteen pieces each, and if you want to make your hands really suggestive, you have to work with all fifteen of those pieces. For some people, yeah, no big deal. But Poser 4 was my return to this program after giving up on Poser 1, and I was completely freaked for months. And I can still remember the thrill of putting my first image up in the gallery, even though now I look at it (and don't try; it's gone from the gallery here) and laugh at how naive it was. So yeah, there's a lot of flavour of the month in there, but let's be kind to the newbies on that issue. If you want to take a shot at someone, look at the folks who have hundreds of entries in their galleries, representing a span of a couple of years, and not one whit of difference from the first image to the most recent. No development. No stylistic change. They might as well be cranking out oil paintings like the guy on PBS with the big hair.

Still both of you have damned good points. John is right in many a sense, as are you Virtual. But heres the thing. This site houses tutorial after tutorial, and long with links to the sites with more tutorials, to many to count. n00bz need to learn about these things, and that will help them become better artists. I used to be nothing more than pen&pencil artist, never coloring my images unless I did some water color(Which I still do on occaisions), and when I got my first copy of photoshop, I went bonkers on books. My poor mothers bank account about sank :) It would seem to me that the people making all of these tacky nudes are nothing more than teenagers, raging with hormones... maybe we need to put some age identification stuff on here. That way, the young ones are kept from viewing it and also, it keeps all of the nudes from being the most popular and balances out the load, so to speak. just some thoughts

"This site houses tutorial after tutorial, and long with links to the sites with more tutorials, to many to count. n00bz need to learn about these things, and that will help them become better artists."

So newbies should wait on posting anything until they've "learned these things"? Sorry, I dissagree. I enjoy going through someone's gallery and seeing the difference in their images from the first posted to the latest.

But then I wouldn't think of criticizing someone's vision in the first place. If I don't want to view a nude done for the sake of nudity only, I simply don't view it. If I do and don't care for it, I just don't comment. But if they want to do a nude just for the sake of nudity, that's certainly their right and why not?
If a temple image with Vicky is inspiring to someone it's their right to create and showcase. New Poser users are going to use recognizable poses until they get posing down better.

Maybe I'm just too "new" to this community to really understand this complaint but to me it's like walking into someone's showing at a gallery and complaining they have too many landscapes.

Well, Kendra, that's more or less it, except that this is one whopping big gallery with way too many "landscapes". After you've been here for a while and cruised through the galleries with any regularity, the monotony of it will become understandable. What does surprise me is why so few of these folks use the WIP or beginner's galleries. That's what they're there for, so that WIPs can be studied for critique. But because those galleries aren't as wildly popular as the all-purpose Poser gallery, I guess no one wants to be in there. I guess my thinking is that it's like your six year old coming home from school with a picture of a pony and a tree and a bird and a flower. You can't see them, no matter which way you turn the page, but you still post it on the refirgerator with all the paternal pride you can muster so they'll be encouraged to do more.

"This site houses tutorial after tutorial..." Actually, I've found a great many of the tutorials (not just poser...other apps too) are dead links :( Click 5 404 links in a row, you don't feel very motivated to keep trying them. I wish Renderosity would spend some time cleaning those out so the lists would be more usable.

If I could do anything in the world for a living and earn money enough to survive on, I'd be a painter. Where my visual imagination could manifest itself on canvas. Where there would be no limits other than the colors from which to choose. Alas, I cannot paint so much as the wall of a house without leaving streaks. That is an excerpt from my website. I posted it here because of something said much earlier in this "tiny" thread, by geep, something to the effect of Poser giving the ability to non-artists to create (question mark) artwork. First of all, I know geep to be an intelligent and nice guy, so dont take this wrong. But his comment cut just a little bit. I realized he was talking exactly about me. You see, Ive wanted to draw, paint, sketch, ANYTHING, but I cant. When I got in the army, I took up photography to try and make images I couldnt draw. ESPECIALLY if and when I could EVER get a female subject to pose for me as I consider, have considered, and will always consider the female form to be beautiful (and, yes, sexy). I look and analyze women I see on the streets. I look at erotic pictures of women. I ogle them on TV, the movies. I look at Rolling Stone covers and sometimes even the occasional Playboy. I have never gotten tired of dreaming about painting or photographing some of the ones I see. I guess I never will. Sigh. But alas, I dont have the money or talent to pay for models (and hopes of selling art). I certainly dont think my wife would like it very much. Then I found Poser, quite by accident. And I thought, Here is a way to try (once again) to make some artwork involving the female figure. I thought, I can do this! I dont have to pay for a model, barring the initial outlay for software, and its not a real woman so my wife wont get jealous. And with the Vicki model and right textures, nearly lifelike. So, here I am masquerading as an artist. I realize making a render and posting it doesnt automatically grant me the title of artist. I certainly will never compare to the many, many wonderful works I see. But before we just lump all the people who work on a scene and post it on a gallery into the same category, testosterone-crazed teenagers, lets not forget that the conventional artist, canvas and brush people, may very well harbor the same thoughts about photographersthat they really arent artists, theyre merely cheating and capturing an image, not creating it. Yet, photography has become a widely accepted art form. I realize this is a tad off-subject and will perhaps be chided by the moderatorsso, perhaps Ill still have enough energy to write another comment more appropriate to the subject. Tks for reading (if you did, that is....grin)

Do you think some of our art is influenced by the latest and greatest products in the Marketplace, and even in Free Stuff? I like to get my hands on the hot new stuff. I like to play with it and make pictures. Hey, how many of us bought Michael 2 and immediately started featuring him in some renders? I sure as heck want to use something I'd wanted for awhile, and finally got. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a momentary flash of insight I had. I get them every once and awhile. Ron

More on the subject, thoughand this goes more in line with answering BladeWolfs original remark and the many exchanges afterwards. A good friend once told me (over and over) during the so-called hippy days that Everybodys gotta be somewhere and just because where they are isnt where I want to be I shouldnt find fault. Ive tried to live by that but still find myself finding fault with complete strangers who wear their baseball caps backwards or mount a spoiler/wing 4 feet high on the rear of their Honda Civic. I guess they think it looks good and dont care what others think. Yes, there is a lot of nudity in the Poser section. Some of it quite redundant, but it doesnt really bother me. I look, and despite the, perhaps, triteness of the artistic endeavor, I still find something to admire. Even if it is just another person trying a pinup pose, I sometimes marvel at how well the lighting was done or wonder how they did the pose so well. Its (currently) a (pretty) free and open forum. Freedom of speech is something tested over and over in this country. Im glad we still have it. So what if the majority of the work is nude (and perhaps redundant)? Id just say, Get over it. IF the majority of the people are sex-crazed teenagers, theyll either get tired of it or move on to what some would declare more artistic work. If the majority is deemed artless redundant pics, then I just guess thats the way the world (or at least the Poser section) isgrin. And just as I dont like organizations of overweight women trying to make me feel like I am a bigot for not preferring overweight women as much as I do slender women, I dont really care for a minority trying to complain and change what the majority currently seems to like and enjoy. As others have said, turn off the nudity switch. Certainly, making a separate room for clothed and unclothed Poser renders would seem to be a useless idea. IF the majority of viewed renders were nude, that very same audience would just frequent the unclothed gallery more often and the artists in the clothed section would realized an even smaller audience. As it currently is, I prefer looking at nudes more than other works. I suspect there are plenty of people like me as the viewings for nude images most often doubles or triples that of conventional works. But when I am scrolling through the gallery now, sometimes a conventional thumbnail grabs my attention and I take a look. As a side note, and because I take a curious interest in this (I have asked many people), I was surprised by the number of nude work done by females. And, more often than not, of a female subject. I was also surprised by the ages of people I met in here, thinking that many were in their 20s and artistic computer nerds (so to speakgrin). But, another surprise as it seems the average age must run much higher. (I add to that pool, BTW). So, Im not so sure how fair it is to classify these people with a phrase such as, teenage male testosterone. Anyway, had to say somethingdidnt want to be left out of the worlds longest threadgrin.

Scott, you hankering bit of week old goat cheese. Scott, you incomprehensible waste of electronic space. Scott, you... you... you Democrat! Just making sure the thread gets in its quota of unnecessary slams against someone... =)

"That is an excerpt from my website. I posted it here because of something said much earlier in this "tiny" thread, by geep, something to the effect of Poser giving the ability to non-artists to create (question mark) artwork. First of all, I know geep to be an intelligent and nice guy, so dont take this wrong. But his comment cut just a little bit."

On the "is it art?" subject, why isn't it?

I've read the discussions but I still don't see it. To say (for instance) that Photography isn't a form of art does a disservice to someone like Ansel Adams. Anyone can take a picture but Ansel Adams' images are true art forms. I can pose, render, texture, etc and put out something I couldn't do in oils but someone else here could use the same images and create something truely remarkable.

So why are a few 3d software programs not considered a tool like the camera is? When is it art? What if I convert an image to a crosstitch pattern and spend days stitching it on linen, does it become art then? Don't tell me it's never art, you'll depress me. I have plans to spend a lot at Daz this week. ;-)

" ... something to the effect of Poser giving the ability to non-artists to create (question mark) artwork. ... "

I sincerely apologize to you Chuck.
I was NOT talking to you, or about you.
I was speaking from my own somewhat frustrated position of being able to create (sortof) "art."
I am no artist, and could not draw a recognizable circle if my life depended on it.

Poser gave me the ability to "create" things (yeah, I'll admit it) ....... the nude female form. There, I've said it!
The most beautiful thing to behold in the Universe (IMVHO)!

Now I'm a Mod and I don't have time to even start Poser, let alone do anything "creative" with it.
[ok, all together now ............BOO HOO!]
(thanks, I needed that.)

"But his comment cut just a little bit. I realized he was talking exactly about me."

I was NOT talking about YOU, I WAS talking about ME!
[conceited little bugger, ain't I!]

And so, I apologize again, to you, and to anyone else that may have taken offense about what I said.

No worries though, I have given up my mouse for a keyboard.

cheers, (always)
dr geep
;=) <----------------------------- (sincerely)

someone should lock this thread I'm tired of reading it. ; )

;=]

I'm going to stop reading this thread. I want to draw more naked ladies. Now where did I put that temple?!