Hi All! I know this question has been asked before from time to time, but I cant think of any effective search terms that find those threads for me. The fact is, Ive had Poser since V1, and now Poser4 + ProPak. Ive bought a LOT of poser-related products here and at other sites. Ive recently gotten ZBrush and despite its many limitations, Ive had so much fun with it (other than the incredibly lame S/N validation system that keeps defaulting to Demo), that Im finally looking to try some modeling on my own. My question: What modeling software would be best to move on to? There are specials and upgrade pricings available on several products, but visiting their sites its amazing how each and every one of them constitutes the ultimate evolution of 3D software! G Ive got access to vintage unlimited versions of Truespace3, Carrara 1, RayDream 5, Amorphium 1, Animation Master, Cinema 4D, Amapi, and even Rhino, LightWave, 3DStudioMax V2, and SoftImage (these last 5 Id have to visit friends and use on their computers to spend any time on, or if I buy one friends old computer (which I dont need) shell give me her 3DS Max V2 with it). None of these are WAREZ or Pirated, by the way. Im quite aware how applications change from version to version, sometimes radically changing the interface and capabilities, so I dont really want to start with an older software & go thru a stiff learning curve with an upgraded version. From what Ive seen in the galleries, looking over tutorials, and visiting the various forums, there are apps that are excellent for rendering (but Im not interested in those just yet, Ill limp along with Poser/Vue4/Bryce5 for now), other apps that excel in modeling organic forms, others still that seem superb for inanimate/geometric forms, and a few that seem to fall somewhere in between. What I really need info on is this - of the most popular modelers used by the Poser Gurus who frequent this site, which is the most versatile for modeling organisms, clothing, environments, and props? And of these which might have the shortest learning curve? I want to really dive into just one app and make some progress on a few projects that are very near and dear to my heart (making and modifying clothes/costumes, making and modifying buildings, etc...), but I dont want to have to learn one app for modeling organisms, another for clothing, and still another for toasters/ships/buildings. I just dont have that kind of time available. Budget-wise, I can usually promote a decent price on software when I really want to, via upgrades, closeouts, and such, but I really need information to go after the best choice I can before I decide which one I want to go after. What 3D Modeling apps does everyone else here use, & whats their opinion of them regarding ease of use? Btw ....This might be a good thread to include through the Tips and Tricks links in Poser Resources/Backroom for others....S

I model everything except trees in Cinema 4d XL V7...the trees are done in onyx tree pro (which exports to cinema), it works well with poser as long as you know the few quirks (which i'd tell you if you got it of course ;o) of the 3 pro pack plugins the cinema one seems to be the easiest to use (just move the trans to the alpha channels and your done).....the app has fast radiosity but still renders well without it ....heres a few image links where everything has been modeled and render ii C4d (except humanms and trees of course )....BTW which ever app you get ring them before buying and ask if they have any crossgrade deals from what you have, if they say know hum and hah and bit and seem indecisive they may make you a good offer :o).........Steve http://poserworld.com/stevePublicPrvws/todinner.jpg http://poserworld.com/stevePublicPrvws/mbrender.jpg http://poserworld.com/stevePublicPrvws/stopnow.jpg http://poserworld.com/stevePublicPrvws/btwindow.jpg this last one has radiosity http://poserworld.com/stevePublicPrvws/btw2.jpg

I use Amapi for mainly geometric modelling... Although it also possesses nurbs features, I tend towards Amorphium for organics. Both these apps are available in full, free versions with good value upgrades to the latest versions. Amorphium is incredibly easy to use... just pick up a tool and start prodding and pulling at the "virtual clay". Amapi (I use 4.1 at the moment) is not easy to get into in my opinion. The tutorials for the early versions are awful... some tools are not even mentioned!... suddenly it all clicked and now seems completely intuitive. I would recommend Amapi for creating poly-conservative props for Poser. And it won't leave you sobbing over your bank balance! Thats my tuppence! (Ooher Missis!) Howie:)

I've used MilkShape 3D (a low-poly shareware modeller) mainly for creating props and environments (although I've also created characters like Sabrina), and trueSpace primarily for creatures and organic shapes.

We use AutoCad, mostly made for engineering and architecture, but can be used to create humans and organic things like clothes....Sharen

I have the following apps for modeling: LightWave, max, carrara, raydream, truespace, Rhino and maya complete. By far the best modeler is LightWave. I use it about 95% of the time for modeling. It is on sale now through april, 15 at $995. It is not just the best modeller but also has the best renderer in the business. It is also an animation package that is close to the best. Best app if you are working with Poser in my opinion. Call them an let them know you want the upgrade pricing even if you do not own one of the upgrade packages on their list. Ron

As you have realised there is no definitive answer on this but here is my info:-

Application: Truespace www.caligari.com
What it can do: Review my work
Learning curve: I used to be a plumber :)

Hope this helps.

I think you can tell from this that the best app is the one we like the most LOL, so the moto of this thread is get the demos of all mentioned and see which you like best and don't rush to buy one (but don't take to long if you like LW seeing its on sale ;o) its a lot of cash ;o)......Steve

I would have to agree with Ron. Being in the gaming industry for over 13 years, I truly believe that Lightwave has one of the best...affordable...rendering power in the business (SGI computers w/Wavefront-Alias is the best, but way too expensive!). As for the price, I know $1000 is a lot of money for a software. But heck, if you could find someone that is a student you could get it for less than $500. Now remember, Lightwave has the best renderer out there for your money, but at the same time it isn't the easiest to create models unless you are a semi-pro in 3D designs. So go ahead and like Steve mentioned, try out as many demos or friends/neighbors 3D software and see which one you will be more comfortable in using.

I agree, the best thing you could do would be to download demos of the newer or newest versions of the programs you are interested in and try them out. This would give you an idea of what they can do and whether they suit your style and needs or not. I have trueSpace and I like it a lot. If you download the demo and wait a little, Caligari will offer you some deal to persuade you to buy the program (lower price or a free expansion pack).

I'm very grateful for all the input - So far it seems like Truespace and Lightwave are most popular :-) I really have very limited time for trial-and-error, so the more input I can get, the likelier I'll make a good choice. Any other recommendations/Observations?

I have both Truespace and Ligtwave. With truespace you need to have another app which is free in order to make things work in Poser. Scaling things like that. With lightwave you do not need to have another app. It takes Poser objects perfectly. Morphing in Lightwave is the easiest of any app I have. Both Lightwave and Truespace have excellent support groups. Lightwave is respected in the gaming, TV and movie industries. Truespace is not. The poser Pro Pack has a plugin for Lightwave but not for Truespace. If you want one of the top apps Lightwave is the way to go. As far as learning to model lightwave is much easier than truespace in my opinion. ron

The only other thing I would add, is if you start using Max, stick with it. Same with Lighteave. I personally find Max a bit easier to understand, but I learned that first. Trying to go from Max to Lightwave was a nightmere, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, unless you like less hair and rapid aging. g ~EA

I use InfiniD 4.5. I export my models as DXF's then import them to Bryce and export them as OBJ, 3DS, or anything else I like.

Well it sounds like you want an honest evaluation on what software to get (now). If that is the case, and I don't usually like to promote softwares...and I've used them all (past and current). Then my opinion is to go ahead and purchase Lightwave. If you have a chance, take a look at Daz3D animation page. Both the high and low res animation were done on Lightwave: http://www.daz3d.com/pages/dp/animation/animmain.html If you could afford to go higher in price, then go ahead and purchase Maya, the results are amazing! Sample Pics from Maya http://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/Community/Discover/product_news/img/grass_large.jpg http://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/Community/Discover/product_news/img/abl_large.jpg Good luck

We use Max here and Rhino for some types of objects.

While Lightwave has a reputation for a good rendering engine there really isn't all that much t hat is unique about it, and when you look around at the technology of rendering you find that all the really cool stuff right now is happening with Max as a base.

finalRender, Brazil and some other rendering systems that plug in to Max and are really pushing the envelope for speed and quality. The tool is ridiculously flexible thanks to the plug in system and does great work.

Anyway, either Max or Lightwave are your best first bets. Truespace is a great tool but to far off the mainstream in my book for serious investment of time, Bryce is cute but the rendering engine is SLOW and the modeling isn't all that. The others (Raydream and so on) fall somewhere in the middle.

So for > 1200, go Max.

For about $1000 then Lightwave.

< $800 then go Truespace

Enjoy :)

I gotta agree with the others that you should try various demos and take a look at their tools and workflow, since what is important is what suits the way you work and that it fullfills your needs. We've got both Max and Lightwave at work but personally I'm using Rhino on my PC and recently bought Universe 4 for my Mac. I am also considering Maya for it's character anmimation tools and flexibility (but still gotta save a lot of pennies up for that one even with the pricecut).

All apps have their strengths and weaknesses and once you've learned a 3D app it's often easy to forget how much work went into mastering it. The only thing that really matters is that you feel comfortable using it. In the end no tool will make you a better artist.

well, for my most basic vertex-pushing I use AC3D... then it gets packed off to Carrara Studio if I need to tweak, NURB, or do anything boolean to it, saving the results in .obj format. After that, I shove it into Poser, where I can assign materials, set the hierarchy, and finalize it.

If I run into any problems, like needing a convex hull or to work with it in .3ds first, I may put it into OpenFX, a freeware modeller... it does imports vastly better than anything I've ever seen :)

Once everything is modelled, I use Poser to put it together, but then put it all back into Carrara for rendering :)

HTH a little...
/P

Rhino, Rhino, Rhino! $200 student price, and it is by far the easiest NURBS modeler to get into. The tools are intuitive, and you can use their Flamino renderer which costs extra, or BMRT for free. It exports just about every format, and imports all formats but OBJ, but there is a freeware converter for that. Best purchase I ever made! I purchased two versions of TrueSpace (4 and 5) and I found the viewport navigation and primitives manipulation to be too weird to use. Rhino you just right-click to grab the view and slide it around... even in the middle of a construction command... and the scroll-mouse button zooms in and out, again even in the middle of a construction command. http://www.mcneel.com For Rhino http://www.exluna.com/products/bmrt/index.html For BRMT http://www.dream.com.ua/thetool.html for Shaderman

Hi Folks! I was hesitant to mention Infini-D 4.5 until Alleycat169 did. I use it for modelling and importing into Poser by way of Painter 3D and UV Mapper. God, I wish someone would rescue that app from software oblivion!! I think the ease-of-use and leaning curve in ID 4.5 are so wonderful that I use it as the flagship tool in my animation courses for consumers, along with Poser or Bryce. (Or any of my students reading this?) I am, however, gradually migrating-- both personally and thru the courses-- to Lightwave via its junior version, Inspire 3D. I've had Animation Master for years, but I've never had the time to learn it-- and its learning curve doesn't appear to be nearly as inviting as Infini-D's is/was. Is there ANYBODY out here from the old Specular company that would like to see Infini-D get a new lease on life? Peter (Dr Zik)

I use Lightwave, the best renderer for the money and a great modeller (don't know how I lived without those layers), lots of internet resources and tutorials. It loads up poser's obj and uv's with no problem. I switched to it from Truespace and have never regretted the investment.

If I liked NURBS, I'd probably use Rhino, but I'm much more at ease with Lightwave's subdivision surfaces and Polygon editing tools. The only thing I'd wish for in Lightwave (for working with Poser) is for the Wavefront .obj IO to include the object group information from the object, otherwise it does a great job! Regards- Lemurtek

Just my 2 cents - or whatever that may be in Euro's...? If you want to do freestuff on a hobby basis, why pay to be able to work for nothing ;o) A good freeware modeler is plenty. I use Amapi 4.15 - free, and immensely powerful - but there are other good choices mentioned in the posts above. I'd pick the one with the most tutes on the kind of work I'd want to do. Check the tutes section here on R'osity. If you want to do go into doing commercial Poser Stuff, looking for reasonably-priced apps that makes modeling and texturing quick and efficient would seem like a good idea. Picking one for which there is plenty of tutes is also a good idea. Plenty of good choices mentioned above. Personally, I use TrueSpace, partly because I know it well, partly because of the excellent "Magnetic Vertex" plugin that'll "shrink wrap" a mesh around a Poser figure automatically, and thus spare you the initial drudgery of fitting a base mesh to a figure, before you can get into the detail work. If you want to go in to professional 3D and animation, I'm not working in that business, so I can only speak on the basis of the the job adverts, articles and interviews I've seen. Most of them refer to 3D Max, Lightwave, Softimage and Maya. Whatever one's opinion of these apps (and their prices!), they seem to be more or less compulsory. Then again, if you want to work as in pro 3D or animation, you probably shouldn't waste your time on Poser - although I think/hope that'll change in the not-too-distant future ;o)

For ease of use at a good price, Rhino is excellent.

I really want to thank you all for your generosity in taking the time to share your take on this. I'm planning on going to a Computer trade show on Sunday. I'll make a decision by then & either make a buy at the show, or place an order on Monday (depending on the final choice). I really appreciate so much help! I'm still not certain what I'll choose, but I'm getting eager to dive in! Thank you all again, and if anyone else wishes to add their opinions, please do!

How many of the apps mentioned run on Mac?

Near as I can tell from the product sites, Lightwave, Amapi/Cararra, Amorphium Pro, and I think Cinema4D all have Mac Versions, but you can check the others to be sure - I'm on a WinXP P4, myself

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=662139

So, what happened at the trade show? Have you made a decision about which program you're going to get? :)

Sue88 I didn't find much selection among current apps at the trade show, just closeouts. I teach a computer class 2 nights a week at a local college, talked to an administrator there, who agreed to get a copy of Rhino, and one of Lightwave for me at the Edu discount, on condition I teach a class in one or the other next year, so now I have a real motivation to dig into them:-))

Many people like those two programs a lot, and I hope that you will have fun with them. :)