Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12413&Form.ShowMessage=672871

Actually... I am not impressed. Not at all. To be exact, that figure doesn't look "Human" to me. It looks far too stylized. Of course, that is my own opinion. I really like the results I get with Vicky2, and have no reason to switch to this new figure.

My only question is: If you don't buy now, while she's useless, will they jack the price up when she is actually usable?

Also, I don't know how swift it is to go around bashing everybody elses work. It's ok to create something new. But, do you have to bad mouth the competition in order to make it look good?

EA: Smallspace clearly stated those were his personal opinions, as it was yours when you called Amy "useless." In my opinion, since she comes with textures, clothing, and six different hair sets, Amy is hardly useless.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=167444&Start=1&Artist=smallspace&ByArtist=Yes

I bought and own all the figures I talked about. When I first loaded the CR2 of Vickie, I called her the "Ugly Chick". However, with enough work and a lot of morphs, she looks good. When I bought Dina, I thought I must have gotten the wrong model. She didn't look anything like the renders that got me to by her. I'm sure however, that also with enough work, she look good as well.

The point is, Amy looks good from the start. The gallery image in this link contains NO morphs, just Amy, an outfit and lots of attitude.

Not too useless, I would say...

-SMT

To clairify ('cause I prolly chose my words not too cafefully) By useless, I simply mean,most peeps here that are really into it, have a ton of cash wrapped up in Vickie. It's gonna take alot to persuade those peeps to start all over again with a new figure. Don't get me wrong, the more different faces out there, the better. I would be interested in checking her out, but that will have to wait 'till I can afford a little experiment money. I hope she does well for you, really I do. Like I said we need more faces. ~EA

I think the model looks well-crafted in some areas and she does come with quite a few goodies. However, to compete with widely-used figures, namely Posette, Victoria and Stephanie, you go up against a well established clothing market. It would really be a better sell if the figure was able to take current clothing (or even old clothing). I understand this this may sacrifice realistic movement and posed shaping, but it might be better to give a little to make it more "useful". And though the article is only an "opinion", I'd venture to say that many of us are happy with our favorite figure or figures. Without treading lightly, it makes people defensive. For example, I could say that Stephanie works well as a sporty/jockette character (she has a lot of muscle-morphs, it seems to be the intention there), but I don't think she looks transsexual at all. I've made morphs to make her more lithe if needed, and adding them is no big deal to me. ...and she takes Victoria's clothing.

I like Amy I have seen the pictures of the gallery and really looks cool, the only thing I guess I've found a little odd about her is her price, it is higer for the same kind of characters as Stephy, Vicki or Cindy, I guess I will going to save some money to buy this new character, I'm agreed about the faces, the more existing faces for models the more the poser community will be benefit. Best Regardings Virus

I'm not a big fan of this "Crazy Eddies" kind of advertising. I personally prefer a low key, show me what you got, kick the tires kind of approach. But that's just me. And I don't know squat about advertising. The figure looks interesting. I'm interested in seeing how well it poses. Seems I'm always the first one to ask this but... How big is the file size for the mesh? ScottA

I'd like to see the character standing square on, not pushing her breasts out and her hips way to one side. From what I can see, she has huge shoulders/breasts and far too small hips. If I get another female character, I want a human looking one, not another grossly disproportionate, plastic doll. From the links you put up there, I'm even less inclined to buy than before. The multiple body shots show very hard, unrealistic edges to the mesh. The proportions are off - the face and neck seem elongated, the shoulders are too wide, the breasts are too high up and the legs too long. Depending on which Turbo Squid link you use (either the one referenced in this thread or the one referenced in the previous Rendie thread that smallspace listed here), the size is either 21MB or 9MB with two different prices listed, $50 or $28. http://www.turbosquid.com/HTMLClient/FullPreview/FullPreview.cfm?ID=164701&Action=FullPreview&intType=6 http://www.turbosquid.com/HTMLClient/FullPreview/FullPreview.cfm/ID/166959/Action/FullPreview

From the Turbosquid site: "Cindy has medium resolution geometries (48.000 polygons)." So it's probably about a 10 MB obj file. It also says "File Size:9092 KB", but that may be the zip file. Maybe this means that, once some people buy it (and it ends up on the warez sites), we'll start seeing hundreds of nude Cindies competing with the thousands of nude Vickies and Posettes in the galleries 8-)

How well does she ANIMATE???
can her skeleton accept BVH files well??
can you Guarantee me that she WONT poke though
her clothing.

please show us more :-)

ScottA:

Sorry if I went over the top. Unfortunately, Amy's been around for about 4 months right now, and during that time, I HAVE been "low keying" it, making only subtle references to Amy. The result? Almost nobody knows about her.

Imagination Works, while highly regarded in the 3D world in general is very much an unknown in the Poser community. They're not one of the "in players". Something had to be done to raise the level of awareness of Imagination Works in general, and Amy specifically.

I'm not an employee of Imagination Works, and I'm not being paid to do this. Tom is a friend. He gave me Amy to beta test. I told him what I liked about her and what I didn't like. He went and fixed most of what I asked. I went and brought in Traveler to help do the things that were difficult for Tom. Traveler said the mesh was the best he'd ever worked with and I agree.

So maybe the hard sell isn't the best way to do it, but you know what, I believe every word I wrote. I still use those other figures, but Amy's now become the central figure in my art, and those of you who know what I do, know that's not a small statement.

I want Amy to succeed for another reason: the better Imagination Works does in the Poser Market, the more things they'll make for the Poser Market, and that can only benefit us all.

-SMT

Netherworks,

Amy IS going to take Vickie's clothing. There's a CR2 in development to do just that. But you know what? I've seen the full library the "Amy native" clothing that's in development and it's HUGE! Remember, Tom's been creating human figures for more than 10 years now. He's got a ton of stuff just waiting to be adapted for Poser. And it's all of the quality level of the fetish outfit I used in the picture I posted in the link above. When the first clothing pack hits, you'll want it!

-SMT

Crescent, the reason there are two prices and file sizes listed is because the links take you to ads for two different figures. The link above takes you to the page for Cindy (who is $28) while the link in the other thread takes you to the page for Amy (who is $50).

Virus: With Amy, for $50 you get the Amy mesh, fully textured with hi-resolution teeth, 3 CR2?s, 3 outfits, 6 hair styles, 3 chair props, 20 facial morphs (with more on the way) 20 facial expressions, 15 poses, and 2 walk cycles. With Victoria II, for $60 you get the Vickie mesh un-textured, 2 CR2?s, 175 Facial morphs, and 112 body morphs. If you want DAZ?s medium resolution textures, add $20. If you want the millennium teeth, add another $20. If you want a basic clothing pack...that?s $35. You?re now up to $135. Doesn?t Amy look like more of a value now?

smallspace, that would be a benefit. But I have to agree with ElectricAardvark that buying another wardrobe is costly for those of us at hobbyist level (which I image is a large percentage). If I remember an earlier post of yours correctly, you said that the company is learning to adjust their prices for a hobbyist market. That is certainly a must. They will have to undersell or be very innovative in design and capability (as is the case with anton's items or quickpose items). It will have to go beyond "just another spaghetti strap dress", for example. But if Tom is that proficient, then we'll have to see. I don't know the man, so don't take this aggressively. In all actuality, I'd like to see a freebie that showcases the craftmanship(and no, I'm not talking about a major figure or anything). Many (if not all) of the Poser artists have done such (including DAZ, weekly) and I think its a great teaser.

Crescent: "From what I can see, she has huge shoulders/breasts and far too small hips" You must be talking about the Cindy character virus brought up in response to my initial post. Cindy and Amy have nothing to do with each other. I don't think anyone has yet accused the Amy figure of having overly large breasts. Pam at Imagination Works would never let Tom get away with it. (err...what Traveler does is another matter entirely!) :) -SMT

Netherworks: I've talked at great length with Pam and Tom about the need for freebie's, if for no other reason, that they need to get people in the habit of checking out their website. It will happen. Just when and how I'm not sure yet. -SMT

Though, I'm sure that compared to the high-cost models they're used to doing, it must sound like "giving away the farm"

Agreed With Smallspace, it was my fault, I just add confusion to this message, sorry gals and guys, I just deleted the link I added, Amy is a great character and she has a lot of potential, hope to see more poser stuff from Imagination Works, trade competition is always healthy, and yes Smallspace It is fair for what i has the price, but there is something that it is worring me, it is the lack for my humble point of view of face Morphs fro Amy, hope there will be more soon, I'll wait to get some extracash to buy her, definitelly I think I will give her a chance :) BTW I deleted my previous post to void further confussions. Best Regards Virus

That was not meant as a bash. Just kind of shocked me. ~EA

I'm on the page with Valadar... some parts got my attention but not overly much. Nice endevour.. but I find Steph and Vicki to be fine products and look much better to me then Amy. Parts of her seem far too.. blocky, and like Val said - overly stylized. But for building something from the ground up very impressive. Anz

I like a lot of diversity, and the overall value seems acceptable, but what I'd want to see is how expressive the face is. There's are expressions, certain types of smiles and such, that none of the existing characters do well. How about a link to a page demonstrating the range of expressions? Or a pic of the head in wireframe mode?

ElectricAardvark: No, The skate Pack is not typical. Something to do with a deal with TurboSquid I think. Amy and the Skate Pack are a TurboSquid exclusives. The clothing packs and furture extras will not be. As such, There will be more value for money. (either more stuff in a package, or a lower price) -SMT

leather-guy: Right now the best facial morphs on Amy are the phonemes. Give me a day and I'll have complete examples for you. The main reason Traveler was brought on board (other than the fact that we like him a lot) is that he has much greater skill at creating morphs than anyone at Imagination Works. By the time he's done, expect that 20 facial morphs to grow to about 150, and a laaarge number of body morphs as well. -SMT

Small - an issue for me with all the DAZ figures has always been the crotch region. They make a point of keeping the vertex count down to keep their figures out of porn as much as possible, I guess. So, for poses that require detail down there, how does Amy shape up? I had a look at your render, very nice it was too, and she obviously had genitals! Am I right?? Also, how does she handle poses like legs open or most of all, on all fours? Do the hips bend in an acceptable fashion, making her look halfway realistic? Vicki is a serious problem here, a real drag. She almost doesn't have a perineum, it's 2 polys wide (!) Eve was sort of OK, but she had the Posette buttocks, the dreaded saddlebags. :o] Oh, and how is Cindy genitals and bends wise? Anybody know? :] FishNose

FishNose: You know, Traveler asked me the same questions. He's happy now. :) I just posted some straight renders to the link, if you'd care to take another look. -SMT

Hello everybody, Ive just discovered this beautiful program which is Poser4.0.I am just learning how is it working...and I need some help.I am doing a project with my University for the next European Tournament of Track and fields in Munich, Germany the 6.08.02. Whe want to do some modelling of triple jump, High jump, etc..., but I need to find, good looking clothes, shoes, etc...for the body I have animated.This project will be shown all over the world, in the Olympicstadium wanto be known in the world of sports, please send me your creations, so ill added your name on the posters we will do for it (In English, French, German, Italiano).Its really urgent, so please let me an E-mail: Blueyesx@caramail.com Thanks again

Well, Small, she's got genitals alright - but no hips.... and decathlon shoulders. I'm really rather surprised you like her the way she is.... Like a well trained young man without the dick. If Trav can make body shaping MTs that fix this, she might be interesting. I find even V2's shoulders are too wide, and Dina is hilarious!!! :] FishNose

The leg to torso tie in looks a lot more like it does in human anatomy. The base default looks like a very good start. Like all other new charactes the morphs can do the rest in terms of anatomical tastes and/or acuracy. Very cool. :)

Maybe I didn't see all the renders, but her elbows and knees still seem to have the same nasty bends as any current figure. What would catch my attention would be a really good shrugging shoulders pose! If the shoulders don't bend and pose well, it's hard for even well-conforming clothing to look good, especially in an animation.

Okay, I decided, what the hell and bought it, I always like seeing new faces. Anyway, the renders you are putting up really don't do her justice because she really is a peach. I can se me doing a lot with her in the future and can't wait until I get the Vicki clothing CR2 and the morphs for the face and body (she really does need more, but I agree, the mesh is fantastic and even I can do some of the morph I need with it). First thing I did was fit Cake's Real eyes to her and had no problem with that at all (yay Cake, they are awesome BTW) That being said, there is a downside and here it is: It comes in a zip, no readme, no documentation of any kind whatsoever and no link to the company who makes her. There is no liscensing information in the file, no texture template or anything else that explains how the people who purchased her can register and make sure we get the upgraded files. So Small, if you can get some answers like for the questions above, I think it would sell a whole lot better, even without the hard sell tactic (which is not my favorite style either, down with Crazy Eddie) Thanks, JDexter P.S. She really does look better on my screen than any of your renders, I wonder why? Camera angles? Focal Length? I will post something of her once I get something I like. At least a head pose with the hair and Cake's Real Eyes.

Amy's major obstacle has been in her marketing. I don't want to ruffle too many feathers with my comments but: 1. The timing was bad--Tom is a freaking perfectionist. He should have gotten an earlier version of Amy out--instead of tweaking and hacking her well past Turbo's deadlines. This is a perfect example of why software is released before all the bugs are worked out. Tom would have never released Amy until he was positive he was getting it right. 2. Going against the grain: Amy and Dina are at opposite ends of the spectrum in reference to how DAZ3D creates their models. The DAZ human models appear to be a hybrid of scanning and modelling. Dina's promotional emphasis was on scanning a "real woman" and Amy's emphasis was on modelling a female completely from scratch. This may be one reason why Amy looks so stylized--Tom designed her with utility in mind. Amy was designed to wear clothes--this was Tom's primary goal in making her somewhat underweight. 3. Thinking Differently isn't for everyone: It'd be great for me if the rest of the world used Macs, but it doesn't. I argued with Tom for a good hour on the benefits of using the traditional Poser scheme for texture mapping, but Tom is convinced that his method gives the texturer more control over the model, and that the textures render better with no distortion to detail. This would definately account for Smallspace's "Amy Evangelism". It does make creating textures for Amy a lot easier in some aspects--and textures do make a big difference in her appearance. 4. Tom gets a little too attached to his projects: Tom wanted to hack the pz2 files to keep users from screwing up the model by posing it in impossible poses and scaling it to unrealistic proportions. I'm the first person to admit that if you can't supersize the breasts and legs, the model loses a lot of appeal. (and if you can't get her knees behind her head, she loses the Renderotica market.) 5. Turbo is still new to the Poser market: Turbo was breaking into Poser territory when they solicited the Amy model for their store. Imagination Works was trying to produce the perfect model. In theory it should have been a win-win situation--but Turbo still conducts business differently than other Poser vendors. It appears that its primary customer base is in other 3D applications. IW and Turbo still appear to be scratching their heads about how the Poser community conducts their business. I think the Amy model is a good model--but it requires the user to approach using it from a different perspective. It's not for everyone--but I think that it will definately get some hard core enthusiasts if IW doesn't give up on it. I think that the biggest flaws in promoting this product (of the 5 listed above) were in the timing and location of releasing the model. My biggest problem with Amy was that I ended up going on 2nd shift shortly after IW sent me the model. This change in schedule sadly put a lot of my projects (as well as the beta-testing) on hold. I really hate having my day chopped in half.

FishNose:

Who says I use Amy "as is"? Actually, I don't use any model as is...but Amy takes to individual body part scaling very well. On pretty much every character I use, I shorten the shoulders and forearms, shrink the hands, lengthen the lower legs, shrink the feet, widen the hips, shorten the abdomen, and narrow the chest. One of my big complaints about Stephanie is that I can't do this without the mesh breaking apart at the collars and butt when bent.

Have you ever wondered why fashion models are so skinny? Freakachu stated, "Tom designed her with utility in mind. Amy was designed to wear clothes--this was Tom's primary goal in making her somewhat underweight." ---This is absolutely correct.

Even more than that, as I tried (somewhat badly) to communicate, it's easier to pull polygons outward to make a character look fat than it is to push them inward to make a character look thin.

The mesh really is flexible enough to be morphed very easily. I'm sure there will be plenty of morphs of "soften" her up.

-SMT

Well, Amy looks like an interesting character, I think this "super hype" marketing style is doing as muich damage to her as it did to Dina. Tom does great work, but the Poser market IS different than the others. Frankly, the Daz models look like they have the best match of scanning and modelling - I still find that Vicki and Stephanie just look better from what I have seen. I am sure Amy, like Dina, will fidn a place in the community - but there are problems with her and like Dina it isn't doing any good to claim that she simply stomps the others flat :)

JDexter: Imagination Works is still in the leaning process when it comes to proper Poser installation and support files. They dont have anyone right now to show them how to do something like DAZs EXE file. However, I do know that new documentation is on the way. As for now, if you email Tom or Pam, I know theyll be happy to answer any of you questions., including those about upgrades and registration. Email, pam@iw43d.com or tom@iw43d.com Regarding my renders: I think its a result of my experience with Dina. The promo pictures of Dina looked so good that when I opened the CR2, I was in total shock. I didnt want that to happen with Amy. In fact, Im totally pleased you think she looks better than I showed. Feel free to post all the good looking Amy renders you want! :) As for the hard sell, it was a deliberate choice that I am regretting minute by minute. I know Ive used up a large amount of the good karma that Ive built up in the community. I just thought that a bold statement was necessary to get people to sit up and take notice. At least I accomplished that. Oh well, you may now let the lynching begin... -SMT

I don't get why so many people are calling two threads by one person a "Crazy Eddie"-type ad campain. Maybe I missed something, but I never even heard of Amy before yesterday. That's nothing like the Dina hype was. And, in smallspace's first post yesterday (where he "bashed" the other models), you could tell the guy was just excited to get the news out and went a bit too far. That happens a lot; I've done it myself.

Thanks Jackson. (sniff) I appreciate it! -SMT (doing my best "wounded puppy" imitation)

S'funny, small - I do much the same stuff with Vicki for instance - narrower, flatter chest and shoulders, wider hips, longer legs, (mostly lower leg), shorter abdomen - but not smaller feet or hands. Also, I scale up the head to 110 or 115% at least. Vicki looks like a pinhead to me. But because scaling has it's limitations (at least z and x) I have MTs for that, mostly. I'm glad to hear you say Amys highly adaptable - that's what it's all about. With each new figure I get I spend months, literally, fiddling before I get something I can use. In the case of Vicki it took almost a year.... Steph I haven't even started on yet, wondering whether I should bother. I'm not a hardbody fan exactly. Shapely, yes, skinny is fine too, but muscular..... nah. And Dina - I wouldn't have her for free. :] FishNose

Post an image of the wireframe. Lets see how it looks. ~EA

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12413&Form.ShowMessage=672871

The polys look nice with a few exceptions. The shin polys are too long for good morphs (IMO) Still not sure, but getting there... maybe :)

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If she was created to wear clothes why the genital morphs? Just curious. Marque

Hi Marque, Actually, those are not morphs, those are part of the basic geometry. There's a little misunderstanding here. Amy was created as an all purpose figure, which can be used in any scene. When I say Amy was created to wear clothing, it means that clothing conforms easily to her with fewer problems in the area of body parts poking through and so forth. In real life, super models are all skinny because clothing "hangs" better on them. the same thing applies in 3D modeling. It's easier to fit clothing on a thin character. This in no way means that Amy wasn't designed for nude renders. Like I said, Amy's not a specialty character. She was designed to the best of Tom's ability to perform well in as many applications as possible. -SMT

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=675524

Well done Anton. I see there is yet to be response.

Well smallspace, looks to me like she was "designed" to rip people off. Marque