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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Dec 23 7:38 pm)
Subject: Doncha hate is when...
I think there are certain paeople who go through the galleries giving low ratings just to cause trouble. Roy may be working on some improvemnts to the ratings and comments in the future. One Idea was to have gallery moderators. Until then you can always take it to the source and e-mail the person directly for a response. It couldn't hurt. -JH.
Not sure If that was me tl...but I have done that from time to time. There I am looking at 35 pics and trying to comment rate each one. Some pics have a parade of fives but yet in the comment field, there are things pointed out. If I already agree with other people then why repeat what they said? But my number may reflect the collective comments that I agree with, which if there are many, doesn't equal a five IMHO. I mean, c'mon man it's a four! That's real good. Now if it were a 1 or a two and everyone else was saying five...then ya, you better talk. I was a victim of this a few days ago with "Real Women Prefer Citgo." All fives and then some jackass drops by and gives me a two with no comment. I messaged him and he explained why he's a hardass with numbers, but he did not say what was flawed in my pic. I tried again and got no response. So moderation is a good idea. (I'd like to be a moderator? Can I nominate myself?) I think it's a bad idea though to force a comment. I mean, some days you're lucky to even get a numerical rating on the fly. -Darth_Logice
yeah... the reason I brought it up is 'cause there's this one guy who never posts his own images, and never posts comments and doesn't participate in the forum and doesn't respond to my email but has done this to me a couple of times now... aside: granted most images don't merit just a slew of 5's (and some people are way to generous with their 5's... check the gallery... sort by rating... there are over a thousand images that are rated 5... some of them suck)...
I thought that on a scale of 1 to 5, 4 would at least be "good" and 5 would be "masterpiece". It's come to the point when "3" is a deadly insult, and I can never give anybody less than a 4 for fear of making enemies. It kind ot makes nonsense of the whole system. Someone said we should not give 5 unless a second DaVinci shows up, but it doesn't work that way. -Talos
I operate this way. 1= go back to art 101 and take notes this time 2= ok, you're in the right ballpark but you're still in the cheap seats 3= average - on a par with pretty much what everyone else is doing, yadda, yadda 4= above average and 5= Excellent. Or if you prefer; 1 = F, 2 = D, 3 = C, 4 = B and 5 = A. And I don't always leave a comment, particularly if the problem areas have already been pointed out, but from now on I will comment with either "ditto" or "yeah, what so and so said" Kate (who seldom gives out a 5)
I work on a similar scale to Kate - 1 This really is your 1st image isn't it? 2 Okay, but there are some fundamental flaws 3 Better than average, but there are some points 4 Wow, that's damn' good 5 Move over daVinci, there's a new master in town! And, like Kate, if the problems (IMHO) have been pointed out, then I won't leave a comment. And, if I don't comment on a picture, it doesn't mean I think it sucks - it just means that I haven't had a chance to see it (I don't get as much time to look through the galleries as I'd like) Paul
Totally in agreement Tim. I have been the victim of some smartass kid obviously going through and placing low ratings on works that have 15 or 20 5's on them already. And like you said, they never post anything or leave a comment. Simply troublemakers. My response has been to either flame the living daylights out of them in private email or ignore them totally. I did flame someone once like that, and then got a letter from some guy in Germany (the letter was in German!) asking me what did he do to me, he didn't even know me! It was probably his kid that did it- and since I put the link to show him, and it was at Renderotica, little kid probably had some explaining to do! NOTE: THIS PERSON'S LOGIN IS xanthiel (for your future reference) All in all, I've decided it's best to just ignore those people though- they're just looking for a rise out of someone- it's juvenile and petty- and if I see a 1 or a 2 with no comment in a string of 4's and 5's I know its' just some jerk, and pay the rating no heed at all. Your work is great Tim, we know that and who cares what some asshole thinks anyway? -Thorne =};-}>
Ha! I just looked at your images! That same person did that to me too! Even obviously did a search on my login because he did it to some very old posts, and systematically. This person also has another login they use to do the same thing to people. Little jerk obviously thinks it's cute. Maybe we should keep a running list of these people so newcomers will know whose ratings to ignore!
Nice use of lighting and characterization. They both communicate a story to me-which I like. These are all subjective ratings-in my art shows I find there are some pieces with a large popularity-but now and again someone has a particular favorite that really connects. I am not sure how the ratings should work-but I do think if I were to give a 4 amongst a sea of 5's I would say why. It may be that the image just did not appeal to Elpinio Eric W who gave 5's
Eric, there are a hell of a lot of images in the gallery that obviously do not appeal to elpinio, who constantly does this and leaves no comment! Funny how elpinio has no work posted... Yes, art is very subjective, but I believe the point that Tim is making and that people are agreeing with is the "no comment" with a low rating. Hell, if you think my use of color or lighting or something just really sucks and want to give a low rating, that's absolutely fine with me, as long as you tell me WHY, so I can improve on that aspect in the future. And THAT is the point of ratings and comments in a gallery such as this one- to help us all raise the standard of our work that we enjoy making so much. But if you are going to go to the trouble of giving a low rating, why not give your reasoning? Even if it's only "I agree with the above low rating".
Dianne I agree with you-I was not aware that master Elpinio was consistently doing that-it does sound like a version of spamming or sour grapes in that case. It is not constructive to give a lower rating for no reason-why bother to give a rating in that case? I try and and separate my own artistic leanings from my ratings and judge on such things as use of lighting, texture, and composition. My largest bias is against the PLASTIC look-unless it is deliberate and for a purpose. This makes me cringe sometimes at S.Mortier's work (the author of the Poser Handbooks (3&4). His work IS creative-it is just uniformly plastic looking. I would HAVE to be careful if asked to rate his art that my anti-plastic bias was left out! As a matter of fact, now that I have a webpage I can put up some of my own art for praise and criticism! Havta get to doing that! BTW, I love your work and tend to "5" it! -Eric Walters
I haven't been a victim of a flamer yet, but then I haven't submitted much to the gallery either... Only time I got annoyed is when I asked the viewers NOT to judge my Princess Diana image on whether they agreed it was a close likeness, but to judge on the over all content..Then I get someone who gives me a 4 (which was fine) but they gave it to me because they didn't agree the image was a close enough likeness to the real Princess..ugh!..lol The 4 wasn't the problem but the reason for it and the comment annoyed me.. Oh well, I should count myself lucky .. I'm one of those people who give out 5's not because I think the image is a masterpiece (I'm not sure I'm qualified to know what a masterpiece is) but because I think the image works or it's different and fresh... When I give a 5 it's because it was pleasing to my eye or appealed to me for some crazy reason.... I've given one 3 and a couple of 4's but always leave a comment even if someone has already expressed my opinion.. Most of the time I just look and leave without rating or commenting, even though I might love the picture I'm viewing.. I just get lazy sometimes... I prefer the comments to the ratings but seems like it doesn't work without checking both comments and ratings... I don't understand why I can't just have comments without the ratings sometimes.. Tuwood be nice... =) ~Cindy
I think the ratings system asks you to put a value on the artwork which has been so inflated as to be useless (except to hurt feelings and cause problems). I'll use generally good natured Geep as an example. Geep's early stuff was pretty rough--but I got no joy out of giving him what I considered to be a below average score when everyone else in the gallery was getting 5s and 4s. The point was, Geep was a novice at the time and he deserved to be in a constructive environment, not a competitive one. When I'm forced to give a rating when all I want to do is critique the work, I'm stuck in the dilemma of going with my gut, or following suit--not a pleasant situation. I have a feeling that the rating system discourages novices. Since everyone can contribute to the galleries, why not remove the element of competition and save the ratings for the professionals (who show work in offline galleries.) Or else, I'm going to give only 5s on the assumption that the numbers are meaningless.
Ok, I think this string is nuts, what olimpic athlete get's pefect tens. if all the inages (including the two that I have put up so far) are really five quality, how about all of theose at www.raph.com/3dartists/ Would they be 30 or 40? I have a lagit and honest criteque on the two. 2nd image: Ranking 3.5 to 4 Why: Nice use of position and form, and I love the use of color in reguards to the subject against the background. since they have the same value it blends well, but the shues bother me. there too bright on the side. The cloth texture has do depth to it, or bumpmap, thus it doesn't look like it does the figures justace, and the hair texture needs improvement. Framing is also kindof standard, I would play with camara angles, and maby make it an off center panoramic with something to conter balence in the empty space. You fix theose things and you'll eventialy have a rateing 5 image acording to my rateing scale. -Continued below
It doesn't seem to work for me, Jeff.. Or it hasn't the two times I tried... Maybe I'm doin' something wrong.. Last time I tried it, I checked only comments and NOTHING showed up as if I had disabled everything.. I did it for a couple of my pics, but had to go back and edit it to turn both comments and ratings on.. Could of been a glich or something... Don't know...
1st image Ranking 2 to 2.5 Why: the image has great potential to be a maserpeace, (it even reminds me of someone. Lighting and pose are good. the pose could use a bit of cleaning up it has nice composition, but somthing small makes it imperfect, can't put my finger on what though, it doesn't look totaly natural. Textures need ALOT of work, the hair looks as much like a helmet then hair, needs transparencies, textures, and posibialy a seprate light on it for highlights. Framing has been done before, you should play with chamara angles to enhance the emotion you want to express. The emotion is confusing. (Because of the title I know what you were getting at, but if it had no title I wouldn't of know what you were thinking.) I do like the slight off angle think that's a good start. The flore texture should be crisp, not fuzzy, do to that, focal point is unclear and distracts the eye. Her eyes need somthing too, it seems to me that they have lots of potencial to really capture the viewer. Look in people's eyes and see how they look in low light, maby even a soft glow and a wet highlight. (eyes are wet and glossy on the serface not matted) work on this stuff and repost, then have a critique done again and repost again and you may acheve your 5s. I hope that you don't take this post the wrong way, because I gave you the same type of feed back I get from others about my photography work. (my job) You are a good artist, and have the capability to be great, but to do so, you have to give each image somthing that makes it stand out. Look throgh photo magazines, the 3D artist web sight I put at the top of this post and real people, and find what's missing, good luck and I hope to see some reposts soon. By the way please excuse my spelling I'm dyslexic and my spell check is down, and english is my 2nd language.) Best wishes, -Gabe-
Personally I don't think the rankings actually help. Constructive comments are much more useful. However, I sometimes feel guilty about some of the comments I place because they are usually saying what's wrong and how things could be improved. But on the other hand, if I just said, "Wow, that's terrific, great image," what would be the use in that? Gabe, I sympathise with dyslexics (one of my sons is dyslexic and my wife specialises in teaching dyslexics) but if I could write your language (whatever it is) half as well as you write English I'd be a very happy man.
for a while i stoped giving my honest rating for fear of that person going after my images but now I dont care I know what the true rating are and what one are from the "losers" around here. the one thing I wold like to see changed around here is the highest rating gallery I just think that it is causing a few of the rating comments.
cool... gabe you rule... thanks for insightful and constructive critique... and a hearty thank you to everyone who participated in this conversation... there are many sides to the issue of rating.. and many styles and schools of thought for what meaning and weight is assigned to this particular rating system... but in the end... it's all for fun... and I for one and having lots. :)
Yet another victim here. My sister and I have had several where we had good ratings of 4s and 5s and some jackass comes and puts a 2 or 1 (that was done to one of Verdie's pics and an aweful comment put on it too. Not naming names here, but I was not pleased with this person. He posted not so nice comments on one of my poser pics too). But then, one wonders what one has to do sometimes to get a 5. I did a pic, "Ready to Kick Alien Ass". It took me about 8 hours to put together to my satisfaction. I know it's a 5. I look at it (especially after I printed it out) and went "did I really do that!" It got 4s. I turn around a do a simple character study that took about an hour to put together and really wasn't as good as I'd hoped (I was trying to make a poser figure of one of my friends characters from memory of the drawing). It gets several 5s. I at least have figured out how to get a 5 out of geep! Women with any color hair that isn't blond! The babe in Alien Ass was a blond. Probably should have done her as a red head like myself.
All Good tlabach, -I'm happy to know that you saw that as my honest opinion and didn't take offence to it. I look very forward to seeing the improvements you make on them, "especialy" the one with the girl crouching on the tile floor. There is power there, if you want it to screem "WOW", I really think it will come from the eyes, though I haven't realy been sucsessful at making haunting or powerful eyes yet either. -To the forum I just have one request, is there a better way to add more text to a post? I had to break that last one in half so that I could give a thoughtful critique, I think if we can start doing that more, another hundred words may help. See ya at the top of the list!!! -Gabe-
I wish to thank Darth for looking at my "Ready to Kick Alien Ass" and for his comments! I may still be new to this gig, but I knew that I'd done a damned good job on that picture. I found the background picture on the Internet while looking for textures and said immediately to myself, I have to use that picture very soon, hmmmm, foxy babe with big ass gun in front of it....that's the ticket! Hey, Darth, there is the "Dirty Old Man v1.0" at Rendererotica! Same pic, sans costume for the guys to oogle! Couldn't resist, just had to render it with and without costume! To all who make comments on my pics or Verdie's (and soon Sylvia White, well, I already posted one of her's in the 2D gallery to help bolster her confidence), I sincerely thank you because you teach me so much and I hope to get very good at this so my illustrations for my vampire book are the best quality that I am capable of.
I see the rating system as a way to compare my own work against the others. Of course, some smartass might spoil the rating just for fun, but I can easily ignore this when the comments are not serious or missing. Comments of honourable members are more important than the rating. If I just want comments, I disable the rating. So I think, the mechanism is perfect as it is. I, too, rarely give a 5. I think it belongs only to absolutely stunning pictures which immediately jump at my eye, for whatever reason there may be. I'm always glad when somebody gives my work a 4. If it's a 5, I feel very honoured. But it's not my goal to get a clean 5.0 average for an image. As tlaubach stated, there's a lot of crap in the "best ratings", so that's not the criterium for me. What's a bit more important to me is the number of viewings, though I don't quite get the strange schemes behind the viewer's behaviour... Sometimes a quick render gets over 300 viewings, whereas a hard work masterpiece doesn't make it over 100. I wonder if this depends on the weekday when you post it, the amount of flesh in the thumbnail ;-) or the phase of the moon, or whatever? Strange...
I think the whole rating system is so overvalued that it is largely worthless- sort of like the EM rating system in the Air Force (at least in the late 60s), where anything less the 4.0 mean the guy is worthless. I suggest we try to come up with a better system, maybe rate separatly on artistic and techical content, on maybe a 0 - 10 basis, and reserve the highest scores for exceptional, outstanding work.
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you post something to the gallery and it's got all 5's and lots of positive comments and then ONE person gives it a 4.. but no comment at all... dag.. defeated.. hehehe... there should be form validation that makes a comment a required field so you have to justify your rating... not that I'm saying that the stuff that I do is all that, but I like to get feedback so that I know how to improve...