Oh geesh Ron, get a clue and re-read the FAQ - I'm not trying to be harsh - but you can't possibly miss what they are saying! You are refusing to see it because you refuse to see that you made a mistake in the creation of the character - admit it - remove it and get over it. Simply save her as a pose file and don't include the cr2 and you are fine. ONLY vic or Mike 1 can have the cr2's distributed (unless you are using the special files for this)and you used the PreTeen. What they are saying is that you can NOT re-distribute the morphs that are in thr cr2's of these characters because they are based on the mesh of the version 1's, so therefore those that came after are the sum of their morphs! By giving aways the morphs you are giving away their additional character parts. NO, I am not wrong, I had called DAZ about Stephanie distribution when she first came out and spoke with AnneMarie personally for a statement on this for 3-D Arena, and then DAZ released a generic statement everywhere (including here) for those who wanted to make characters featuring their models. The FAQ is very clear and easy to read - if one isn't scurrying for cover because they f*ed up.

-Bookmark :)

I am Soooo confused now! I think I'll just stop posting anything modified by the Tailor. I don't understand why its a problem as long as you still need the orginal OBJ to use it. But I don't want to get sued. Should I delete the ones I posted already?

LadySilverMage, No you are wrong. The version of my Millennium Girl figure most recently shared was a MOR file, not a cr2. By the way, there is an LE version of the Millennium girls. That is perfectly acceptable to distrubute, a cr2, just as it is for Mike and Vicky. I had previously used that method. Again, that too was legal, since I used the cr2 file provided by DAZ. By the way, the "analogy of Vicky and Mike" doesn't apply to the Millennium Girls, since there is no Version 1 and version 2. My Marvin character was a cr2, consisting of morphs copied onto the acceptable version of Mike. That is the one that may or may not have been acceptable, since the wording of DAZ's FAQ is murky at best. To be careful, I removed all my characters from Free Stuff. Now that you have the correct facts, maybe you care to make an informed comment? This is fun.

Attached Link: http://store.daz3d.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=ZP1&Product_Code=ps_pe023&Category_

not only to get ebots, but: mehndi: "I would just take a half sphere, put alot of "sticks" sticking through it artfully to create sort of a straw roundhut with it, then mount it on top of long spindly bird legs. I think one of the animal based sites have bird legs available." that would be not very accurate. carolly, baba yaga's hut sits on only one chicken leg, that cuts your expensis for chicken legs by 50% ;). since the whole story comes out of russian folklore, it is sound to asume that it looks very much like russian "datchas" (sp?) - simple, one-room wooden house. i'm not sure, but i thnik that baba yaga also had chicken legs...

Oh GAWD Ron, no one is saying you cannot re-distribute cr2 characters - read it!! What you can NOT do is include in those cr2's spawned morphs that come from the non LE versions. So if you use a regular model spin your dials to create your recipe and then move that spawned morph (that you have renamed) to an LE model it is a violation of the distribution rights. You have in essence only moved the morphs from one cr2 to another. Why are you having trouble understanding that the issue is that the morphs were spawned from a cr2 that you are not allowed to distribut morphs from - in any form... If you still don't get this, only DAZ can explain it - and at this point I doubt you will get it. There is no version 1 or 2 of Stephanie either so read the FAQ that pertains to them, they can not be distributed in the same manner as the V1 and M1 it is those two which are the exception - not the rule. Every other mil figure has morphs that may NOT be distributed in ANY form. So "My Marvin character was a cr2, consisting of morphs copied onto the acceptable version of Mike. That is the one that may or may not have been acceptable, since the wording of DAZ's FAQ is murky at best." is illegal because you COPIED the morphs at all! As for your comment about making an informed comment I'm going to do something rare for me Ron - and tell you what I'm thinking. You are a fraggin' idiot! (yes violates TOS so report me - but you distributing copyright material of DAZ also violates the TOS) Unlike those who look down their sharp little noses and patronise others when they don't know what they are doing half the time, I DO know something about copyright laws. I was a law student for corporate law who left law school due to a medical emergency in regards to my pregnancy. I stayed out because I had to take care of my father. I am NOT a lwayer, but I do keep up on it, I would never make an "uninformed" comment in regards to copyright distribution. Unlike you I have ALWAYS had the correct information - I can read a legal document quite easily and that FAQ isn't the slightest bit vague in this instance and was created for a layman to read. If I have ever had any doubts I have called DAZ on the phone and asked (as in the case of Stef and mil kids not having s version 2) so I do know what I am taking about. Unlike you I understand that Stephanie is created from Mike's mesh and therefore her morphs can't be distributed. I understand that the millenium kids are created from vickie's mesh and therefore their morphs can't be distributed. But we all know that only Ronknights knows all and sees all, so if we write it in crayon for you in big block letters will you understand it then?? Frankly I think you do understand it, no one could possibly be this stupid, and you simply enjoy trying to make others look stupid because of a warped belief that it makes you look smarter - tends to backfire.

wait! I though baba yaga's hut had 2 legs??

So then what the hell are the LE version cr2's for?! Frankly, I'm not the only one who's been confused by the way DAZ has presented all this stuff. It appears you're just having a temper tantrum. I'll be the first to admit I don't know it all, but then I can't learn if someone isn't able or willing to explain what I don't understand.

Daz has not said they wouldn't give permission if asked. Why is it such a hard thing to ask if your "whatever" is OK to distribute? Of course, if some of you did that DAZ might be completly flooded with a hellish amount of paperwork...

As a musician, I can't copyright a chord progression - such as C-Am-F-G7. There are a ton of songs that use that progression. The arrangements, however, are different and copyrightable.

The courts said that Microsoft's "Recycle Bin" was not the same as Apples "Trash." They do exactly the same thing but are named differently and have different icons (boy, that one blew me away).

The instruments or software used to create the similar items (music or recycle bins) doesn't / didn't matter - only the final result.

Thus, one could infer that if something looks like Mike2, and functions (morphs) like Mike2 but doesn't have Mike2's exact mesh and the morphs aren't named like Mike2's, regardless of how it was created, the courts would say it isn't Mike2 and is therefore legal. In short, one could legally create clothing that "almost" fits Mike1 and makes him able to look like Mike2. I don't want to put ideas out there that would hurt Daz but, that's business. They know it. Just like Apple, they're trying to maintain the ability to feed their families.

Chad seems reasonable. It obviously wouldn't do him/Daz any good to go on a witch hunt and sue everyone who's been creating stuff for the last 4 months. I would expect that they would be willing to work out a deal with all of you model creators that indemnifies you from legal action for what's been done in the past.

I'd bet even now he's stressing out about this much like many of you. I know what it's like to have your wife say, "we gotta go NOW!" while you're in the midst of a work-related crisis.

I'm taking the rest of the day off from this thread. I'll wait to hear from Chad.

And desperately try not to quote Tom Greene in the movie Charlies' Angels.

"Is it the Chad?"

Dang. I just couldn't do it. ;-)

Well, maybe Monday I can quote Drew Barrymore from the same movie,

"The Chad was great!"

Well, As Brazilian fans blare thier horns in Germany... :) I've got to say that so far it's been ineresting. I think the DAZ post at the top of this thread is an attempt to sugar coat a bitter pill, it's far easier, (and for more private) to speak to people one at a time, which gives you room for maneuver, than it is to put it all down in black and white, in a language that people who aren't copyright lawyers can understand. But to be fair to them, given the nature of thier customers, and the fact that in places like renderosity, etc. Said customers like to talk.... I don't think they have much choice but to symbolicaly open thier arms wide, hunch thier shoulders and say "Guys, you can trust us, we're just trying to make little profit, is that so wrong?" Personally I have no problem with profit. I'm never going sell anything, and I'm probably never going to create anything that anyone wants. But as a buyer, and downloader, the more stuff there is to choose from, the more I like it. If the outcome of all of this is that there is less stuff of a higher quality, then I for one won't be pleased. Less is not more, less is less. Why do women have 20+ pairs of shoes when you can only wear one? Because they like pretty things, and it's always nice to have a choice. To have shoes that go with your dress, or catsuit :) If all you've got is one outfit, well... later jb

Ron not having a temper tantrum - but what do you expect when you refuse to see it and then accuse others of making uninformed comments?? You childishly refuse to read ALL of the FAQ, picking and choosing then calling it vague. The LE versions of the cr2s are to encourage people to create their own characters - YES, but to do so using their OWN morphs or those morphs that are allowed for this (example I gave above was that I bought Travelers MorphWorld Cd that allows the creation of a commercial or free character as well as the use of magnets) The LE versions are NOT available so that you simply move non-distributable morphs and rename them.

Again, you don't take the time to know what I have or have not done. I've read the FAQ's countless times and asked questions about them countless times. And I do NOT just move morphs and rename them. I make my own combination or recipe of those morphs and then distribute them. There is a big difference. DAZ didn't create the character that I made by twisting those dials. I did.

Attached Link: http://www.sunbirds.com/lacquer/box/250270

Attached Link: http://www.mythinglinks.org/BabaYaga.html

LadySilverMage, Your points are correct, but my issue is with the idea that I can not make morphs for items so that they will fit Vicki 2, Mike 2, etc. Contrary to what someone wrote above, I want to morph some available clothing items to fit Vicki 2, et. al. and release the morphs for free. I want to take outfits that are currently available, some at the Marketplace (and I have NO ties to any vendors except for respect for their products) and some in Free Stuff, and use the Tailor (and tweak in Rhino) so that they are useable with the upgraded models. By Daz's current statement, I can not do that. I am not redistributing a morph from Vicki 2 to be plugged in to Vicki 1. I am redistributing a morph created from a different mesh to allow that mesh to fit Vicki 2. Money has nothing to do with my concerns. Having useable products for my Vicki 2, Mike 2, Stephanie, and Aiko top my list of concerns. I'm sorry if trying to make Daz's products more valuable by expanding the clothing choices for them (for free) is a bad thing. Daz's current statement opens a huge can of worms. Over at PoserPros they've stated that a catsuit can not be morphed to fit Michael 2 as that would eliminate the need to have Michael 2 - Michael 1 could look like he was Michael 2. (I guess all the face morphs in Michael 2 aren't worth anything.) You can release pants that would fit Michael 2 - if it isn't seen as competing with a Daz product. (Daz's own words.) You can release a long sleeved shirt that would fit Michael 2 - if it isn't seen as competing with a Daz product. Now, what happens if you release a shirt and pants set - assuming Daz doesn't declare your clothes as competing with their clothing pack? Put the shirt and pants together and the entire body is covered just as if Michael was wearing the cat suit. Now you have the same issue as the cat suit. It's an ugly situation, and the personal fights flaring up between a few people here is making things worse. (I'm not casting blame not directing this statement at anyone in particular, just observing the usual problem of personality clashes gets exacerbated in a sticky problem like this.) Hopefully Daz will read all the concerns, look at the ramifications of their current statements, and come up with something workable. As it is, their stated interpretation of their EULA can really screw over both merchants and freestuff providers on the very products Daz is trying to sell - V2, etc.

people, why don't you all cool a bit, huh? there have been far more superior textures by other vendors for vicky and mike, and though they seriuosly compete with daz' stuff, they never complained. so, as i read chad's message way, way, way up above, if you want to distribute something, ask them, ok? :)

Gah, I'm personally getting tired of the LSM / ronknights -argument. Ron, you are wrong. LadySilverMage is right. You can NOT use ANY of the Michael2 morphs and then transfer them to a redistributable .cr2. No matter how unique your combination is, it uses the Michael 2 morphs and redistributing them IS NOT LEGAL. Even if you used every freaking dial in the M2 body and then combined it, you are NOT allowed to transfer the combination to a Mike1 cr2 and then share it. No, no and one more time NO. Now can we please end this?

Bucket's full again. That's OK Little Dragon, I've got it this time. * walks up, dumps bucket of chum overboard, stirs vigorously *

Staying in the loop ;-)

Well maybe that really wasn't made clear with all the legaleze. Someone can say that I'm too stupid to understand legaleze, but when it comes down to it Plain English is always best. Right now I'm trying to figure out just where there is a good alternative source of Morphs. I went to Morphworld, and looked at their CD contents. All you get for Mike is face morphs. So LadySilverMage maybe you don't create Mike characters? If you do, then maybe Traveler has another morph cd that isn't advertised? It also appears the Victoria morphs are nowhere near as comprehensive as Vicky 2's morphs. So I really wonder what can be created with this MorphWorld CD?! *** "Daz Michael: 35 Face Morphs" "Daz Victoria:128 Face Morphs - 40 Body Morphs"

lol come to my house and hand me a 'cease and disist order'. I'll happily see you in court. If I messed with clothes, this'd be my response..but since I hate making clothes..Im in that unaffected group right now. but make no mistake, if I make a shirt for vicky, mike, stephanie, the kids or whomever...you can hide and watch me post it. I fully understand what DAZ is saying, or attempting to say..but it doesnt hold water. so, now who had the popcorn? BT

Dear lord!!
i just hope that no one decides that selling my custom BVH files
( which are basically animated versions of mike&vickies
internal bones rigs ),

are an illegal distribution the characters heirarchy structure

:-(

Tagging this so I know where I stopped reading.

tag! your it!!! hehehe, just getting ebot turned on for this thread too

I can leave for a while. And when I come back. You all are having the same discussions you had three years ago. Nobody has done anything here that they haven't already done several times over the past three years or so. Yet you all react with shock, as if it's never happened before. Backstabbing, questionable business practices, aliances that crumble, gossip, political maneuvering. Year after bloody freakin' year. If DAZ was making a nice profit. They wouldn't care what was being passed around. An easy way to learn the financial status of a business is to measure it's policies. A successful business doesn't need many polices. Policies are created BECAUSE of problems. Whether the folks at PoserPros "sold out" or not doesn't really matter. The facts are: DAZ sucks at e-commerce. Their store and servers are crap! They ALWAYS have problems with it because they don't know what they are doing..... Not clue one. They are 3DModelers....not "IT" people. Russell IS good at it. He knows his stuff. He IS an "IT" guy. DAZ shoud not only use PoserPros as a side market place. But they should also hand over the existing store to them as well. And stick to what they do best.... Making good 3D models. Although it would probably take a little time to get used to a DAZ store actually functions properly over the weekend. ;-) ScottA

lol eowyn I wasn't actually going to "say" another word on the subject. Ironbear had popcorn somewhere looks around I'm not commenting on the DAZ thing in regards to approximate morphs As for the MW CD there are 35 michael morphs and 38 musclebound michael morphs used in combination one should be able to create interesting characters. Furthermore there are numerous magnet options and one could always create your own.. PoserPros, now it is owned by DAZ they bought a bulletin board that is phpbb2 - now they have their forums - that is exactly what it is now - DAZ forums, so the previous owners of the forums really don't matter now do they? However I do think that having DAZ forums is a good thing. Baba Yagas hut- I'd swear it had 2 legs in the game.... masybe it had a leg amputated??

OOOOPs, it appears some folks have not read the DAZ FAQ fully. It basically says you can distribute Mike 2 & Vicky 2 morphs in this manner: "3) Custom Morphs based on Victoria 2.0/Michael 2.0 Morph Combos: If you want to create a custom morph using one or more of Victoria 2.0's or Michael 2.0's morphs as a starting point, you can do this by creating two seperate distributable files - a Pz2 pose file with dial settings for Victoria 2.0/Michael 2.0 morphs, and a vertex-only Obj with only your custom morph....." (snipped for brevity) So you see, I'm not so dumb after all. I was just doing it the wrong way. And I'll probably just work with MOR files instead. Tee hee. Now who is the dummy? ScottA, I wasn't here 3 years ago.

Hiyas Scott! How are things going? Thanks for the kind words of support. The Poser community sure is an interesting place, ain't it? :) How many times has the sky fallen now? "PoserPros, now it is owned by DAZ they bought a bulletin board that is phpbb2" They didn't buy the phpBB software. We all know that phpBB is a freely available forum software product. However, I have and continue to make many modification to it to support the growing website. I maintain my modifications in my CVS software version control repository, so that I can still upgrade the base phpBB code as they release new versions and reapply my changes easily. Then there's all the "new code" that no one outside of staff has seen before. :) That is 100% my code ... or was. :) "so the previous owners of the forums really don't matter now do they?" Wow, that was pretty harsh. We don't matter? I'm sure you didn't mean it the way it sounds. :) Hmmmm ... we still run the place. Does that matter? ;)

Ron, DAZ has not said you can't make characters with the M/V2 morphs. Just that you cannot in any way distribute a cr2 with those morphs, or any combination of those morphs spawned into a new morph, or any morph that started with one of those morphs and has your own magnet/other program morph added and spawned. They have spelled out how you CAN distribute the characters using pose files to carry any of the M/V2 info and transferring morphs you actually made yourself to a LE cr2.

Mostly just needed to bookmark my place. === "So you see, I'm not so dumb after all. I was just doing it the wrong way." That's what people have been trying to tell you Ron. Nobody thinks you did anything bad on purpose. Lots of people have made similar mistakes with the figure morphs because it can be confusing. Take a deep breath when these things happen and try to realize that people aren't attacking you, they are just trying to help you know when you made a mistake and steer you into the right way to do it.

Cross-posted here, Ron. LSM never said you couldn't distribute your morphs either. Just that you were doing it the wrong way.

Wasn't meant to be harsh russ, only a statement that all the hoopla now brewing over the change of PP is irrelevant, if people like or dislike you and mehndi that is irrelevant now for PP. It doesn't matter in that aspect that as employees of DAZ you answer to them, so anyone's issues in respect to what PP was before or what the apparant "plans" for the site were are now irrelevant. You "manage" it for DAZ that is a big difference so it really should make all the uproar irrelevant. phpbb2, I do admittedly find it ridiculous. I do understand about buying a ready made forum of the type that PP is - tutorials and such. Just find the phpbb2 thing a bit odd for a corporation. Ron, I said that, see post #12 that if you included those morphs they had to be added as a pose file, so now who looks stupid? Instead of always trying to tear everything apart to prove that you are right (or righteous) try reading what people post to you. Often times they start out trying to be helpful until they bounce off your attitude of all-knowing pastronisation.

This is not an attack?! LadySilvermage: "You are a fraggin' idiot! (yes violates TOS so report me - but you distributing copyright material of DAZ also violates the TOS)" This is not an attack?! "But we all know that only Ronknights knows all and sees all, so if we write it in crayon for you in big block letters will you understand it then?? Frankly I think you do understand it, no one could possibly be this stupid, and you simply enjoy trying to make others look stupid because of a warped belief that it makes you look smarter - tends to backfire." *** This is wrong. The morphs can be redistributed, in the proper format: "You have in essence only moved the morphs from one cr2 to another. Why are you having trouble understanding that the issue is that the morphs were spawned from a cr2 that you are not allowed to distribut morphs from - in any form..." I just love getting blasted by someone who forgets her manners, and then having someone deny that I was blasted.

LadySilvermage: "Instead of always trying to tear everything apart to prove that you are right (or righteous) try reading what people post to you. Often times they start out trying to be helpful until they bounce off your attitude of all-knowing pastronisation." You're talking "out of your backside," and frankly I've had enough of your crap. I am tired of wasting all my time and energy putting together stuff to give away just so some cranky person like yourself can kick me in the balls. You don't what what the hell you're talking about. If I was such a negative person, I wouldn't even have been involved in this or other similar threads. But these threads are about my concerns, and the concerns of others over work we have done with Tailor that we are giving way. If you can't be civil to me, then why don't you just ignore me. Or go sit in the corner on a "timeout," till you can learn to behave. And take Carolly with you.

Bucket's full again. That's OK Little Dragon, I've got it this time. * walks up, dumps bucket of chum overboard, stirs vigorously *

waves up the thread Here you go, LSM. Popcorn, beer or something stronger? eyes her criticially And one bottle of industrial strength Tylenol for a chaser, on the house. ;] Ko... ", but then they go on to state you can't make your own mesh and wrap it round the figure, which really defeats the purpose of owning the figures or phil's CD totally." They may be able to state that, and they can state it all they wish. I just now got back, and I haven't checked to see if they've added any new statements while I was asleep... on their previous release, they didn't quite state that. Irrelevant. They can state whatever they wish. Some of those statements won't be enforceable. What they ARE counting on is that no one will want to challenge them on it and risk a court fight - a court fight that Daz won't care for on a non-enforceable policy. Eula Revisions: A EULA is a contract. You are bound by agreement to the EULA you SIGNED AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE, and to the policies that were in force at that time of purchase on the item you purchased. And if those policies are not stated in the EULA you agreed to, you are NOT signatory to it. THAT is contract law. Do some research, jeeze. Changing a eula or any other contract and then notifying previous purchasers they're bound to an agreement they were not signatory doesn't work. It would be like me contracting to do a freelance job for you for $1500, and then six months later revising MY copy of the contract and informing you that you now owe me $2500 additional. A judge would laugh me out of court. And maybe slap a contempt charge on me if I refused to accept his judgement on it. You are bound by the contract that was in force at the time of purchase that you accepted. And under current practice, acceptance of a EULA is equivalent to being signatory to that EULA, and that EULA only. [As a side note, the entire concept of EULA's in general as being a binding contract if you cannot read them before agreement is under some legal fire.] If ANY company tries to tell you otherwise, you are in your legal rights to acquire a lawyer and challenge them on it. And probably to bring suit for unfair trade practices, depending on the laws of your state and the pertinent federal statutes. "Certain high quality places heavily restrict who can market what where, it is how they stay high quality and keep their edge." No, that's market protectionism. Just as your Merchant's Guild was ill disguised market protectionism. That's why it blew up in your face. This is the same thing with a different bow and ribbon. And sorry - Daz isn't the be all and end all of quality kiddo. I've pruchased Daz items, I've had Daz items purchased for me as gifts, and I've downlaoded every weekly freebie they've ever put out. On their own inhouse items, they are a median end constructor of poser items. They hold their brokered artists to higher standards than they do their inhouse products. I've purchased as good or better quality items at RDNA, Renderosity, and the 3Dc, and I've downloaded better items from Freebies. Kozaburo makes better hair for free than a lot of brokered stuff. The "higher standard of quality" crap is arrogant bullshit. Maybe three years ago, when the state of the art wasn't where it is now - but not today. What Daz offers to merchants is fucking PRESTIGE, pure and simple. It offers the "I sell at Daz, aren't I cool!" label. ;] "Sounds like you have become nothing but a spokeperson for DAZ." Becoming, Kattman? Heh - where ya been the past three years? grin Now. I truly fucking detest seeing some of this blow up. Chad Smith is one of the nicest men I've ever corresponded with. He's never been anything but polite to me. But I hope he'll understand if I'm not able to let some of the arrant nonsense running rampant here slide, even if he finds my points of view offensive. Then again, I have the feeling that the guy I've corresponded with might just find the rampant Daz worship as incomprehensible as some of the rest of us do - if he's running a business, I hop that he at least has a realistic appraisal of their companies products and their relative merits. Decent goods at relatively decent prices, yes. Shining examples of the epitomy of poser quality? Heh.

I'm going to interject here in a different vein then I have. The fact that PoserPros is now owned by DAZ doesn't make a difference. So a few poser fans put up a site that became popular and usefull. It took a lot of time and they asked for nothing in return, well almost nothing. They were given a chance to get paid for something they were doing anyway and took it. Who wouldn't accept this? I'm happy for them in this regard. Secondly, If I was going to trade the actual morphs from Mike2 I would agree I am totally in the wrong. This is thier geometry and NEEDS to be protected. Now for my bitch. If I make a clothing item that has either geometry without a morph or can be morphed to 'fit' mike in any of his morphed forms I WILL be in copyright infrigment with thier current stance. It doesn't matter if they will enforce it or not, I just don't like the idea that my own geometry is now considered thier property becuase it fits one of thier character permutations. Saying it only matters if the item covers the entire body doesn't cut it. I could make a pants and a shirt, neither cover the entire body on it's own but together it will and gives the same exact result as a full body covering. I know this won't hold up in court but I can't even afford to test that out if they decide to try. I;d be innocent but homeless anyway, effectivly taking me out of the market and in the end they win by defualt. That is why I will fight this all the way. I am really looking forward to tomorrow to see what they say and I am only going to read the very next statement. We have had three so far and they are all double speak because of the ramifications. If they don't back down, that is thier right but I will boycott then 100%, and that regretfully includes PoserPros. If they back off and make it only illegal to use tailor to approximate the geometry from a clothing item so that they can apply it to the figure then I will support that. This changes the figure itself into Mike2 (if it was Mike to begin with), but to say I can't make a clothing item that makes him look like something he isn't I won't go for due to the far reaching results of this. It essentially says I can only make clothing for the standard mike and none of my clothing will ever fit mike2, even if it is just a belt.

Quit beating around the bush IB. ;-)

Ya gotta watch that, quixote. When you chum, you get sharks. ;] And wolves.

Hey I stand by those comments, why? Because I wasn't attacking you but trying to be helpful at first. You are the one who said "Now that you have the correct facts, maybe you care to make an informed comment?" I was not the one who was uninformed and though I explained it you several different ways you refused to read the entire FAQ for yourself. Though others explained it you refused to acknowledge it. Nowhere did I talk "out of my backside" that would imply I didn't know what I was talking about - but I read the FAQ and talked to DAZ so I did know. Geesh get your analogies straight would you? As you quoted, people DO try to answer your questions and help you, just because you don't like the answers doesn't mean we are childish or mean to you. If I wqs so mean to you Ron I wouldn't have bothered responding to your emails recently and explaining why hair flys off your characters now would I? But we are all only human and when someone who doe not know what they are talking about patronises those who do and try to help they are bound to get frustrated. If you don't understand that then you understand nothing abougt human nature - unless (and I suspect this s more the truth) you simply enjoy pushing buttons. I remember a child psychology book about children who want to be abused, it was basically about how some personalities enjoy pushing and pushing and pushing so they can make a parent/person lose control because then they have all of the control. After that they get to whine and play the martyr and thereby garner more control through guilt. This is something you do over and over again. Think about it Ron, I have never had a problem with you, I have im'ed with you and emailed you. Never have I treated you with any animosity. So does it not seem off to you that I would? Do you not think that perhaps you push people away with your taunts and your patronising? Probably not because I think that in your world you are the martyr and everyone else is out to get you, why would anyone want to do that? And to top it all off you still think the morphs can be spawned and moved and yet your own post points out that those m2 (etc.) morphs can only be included in a pose file... good day ron

"OK so you cant distribute the morph, BUT a person can go to Daz and buy the tailor themselves sound of cash register " Future, they may be able to say that all they want to. But there may not be a damned thing that can be done on it except shake a finger and say "Bad merchant, no donut". Tailor doesn't copy morphs. It makes an approprimation of a morph. And not always a perfect one. If the geometry that the morph is being approximated in is different, and it's yours... it is frigging yours. It is NO different that morphing clothing to a body shape in a modeler, and someone can jump up and down all they wish, but skinning a shape in a nurbs modeler isn't illegal. What they did say was that they were frowning on a specific instance - involing Mike and Vicki2 and the catsuit. All items of which are their morphs and their geoetry and their cr2's, so their property. That can be restricted. If you make your own bodysuit, your mesh, and morph it to fit - it is YOURS. No one, including I, have any say on what you do with it.

grins at ScottA Heya Scott - long time. ;] Ya realy think I shoul quit repressing my true feelings and mealy mouthing around? ;]

Thanks IB - I need that... IB > my dream man, understand everything and comes equipped.

AOL @ Ironbear.... :) Also part marker. Getting wearing ploughing through this.

Now I'm going to chum again

Oooh. Be still my beating heart. ;] Too bad she's married. grin

Thank you, IB....I have been basically peeping the same thing about contract law that you Roared out to the crowd. I hope they hear you better than they heard me. I sure hope folks just don't go along and believe the crap that was spouted in that faq#49. Kattman....NO YOU WON'T. The agreement, at the time of purchase of the m2 figures was NO DISTRIBUTION OF ANY CR2'S OR PARTS/DERIVATIVES, THEREOF. JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE TRYING TO CONVINCE THE GENERAL POSER PUBLIC THAT THEY NOW "OWN" THE RIGHTS TO ANY OF OUR ORIGINAL MESHES...MADE INDEPENDENTLY FOR THE M2 CHARACTERS...WHO MAY BE MORPHED IN A CERTAIN WAY IS CRAP....PURE AND SIMPLE....IT CANNOT BE LEGALLY DONE. So many people seem just to have recently fallen off the turnip truck. Is it miller time, yet?

Wow...so many posts, as I was typing out my response to IB...One more little note....AND, yes....I worked for an appellate attorney for nine years....went back to school and became a certified paralegal...that and a degree in fine and applied art will keep dinner on the table. What daz is doing....with their "new stance" is actually trying to perpetrate a fraud on their consumers. I would like to see them address THAT.

(I've been around since the first site :P ) Just marking place of last read.........