On a picture I created...I made the mistake of not only not being specific, but not getting the credits right. As I was so snottly told... I want to make a formal apology to MnD for screwing up the credits for Romantic Curves... And not being more specific about the added textures...Tho the picture contained more props, characters, and lights...One would point out I meant Romantic Curves was my texture...This is not so...As this is just a hobby of mine...I in no way need to steal credits..I don't sell my morphs, or anything else.... I also have so many files that at Times I get the makers mixed up..Excuse me for being human and making a mistake..for which I accept I did...Most of my files do come from Daz, or RNDA...So I will go through my files and mark those that are not Daz or RNDA so this mistake won't be made again..... Once more to MnD Productions I apologise...For the mistake of Getting your file mixed up with others... This is posted to show I am honestly sorry for the mix up... I also will be more careful how I place my words...There are added textures to that picture of mine...Once more I made the mistake in believing people could see for themselves the textures that belonged To Daz, RNDA, and MND productions....That I would not have to defend myself from snotty people that think I want to steal credits...For what I have no clue...I don't sell anything I do in Poser..So there is no profit to me... I am satisfied with my work, and see my flaws...I don't post half the work I do here...Just some for those that enjoy my work and requested I do it...If asked I would of clearly stated nothing in Romantic Curves is of my making except the dark shadowing I did in post for the theme of war....But why ask when you can just accuse?....snorts Once more MnD Products....Sorry for the mix up...And yes Romantic Curves has some beautiful texture..For which I placed a link of another artist that shows the beauty of Romantic Curves...Just in this theme...Darkness was needed..War isn't beautiful...

well, im sure i speak for many other merchants here when i say that not everyone will jump down your throat for not crediting their marketplace items. when someone credits my textures that they have purchased in the gallery, i really do appreciate it - but it is by no means a necessity. as far as im concerned, when someone purchases my work they own it, and its theirs to do with as they please - to use in private or commercial renders. if they choose to credit me, leave store feedback or message me with a link to an image they created with it then i regard that as a bonus :) cheers, -gabriel

One of the major reasons I don't usually jot down credits in my images. It's not to be nasty, It's just that I wish to avoid things like this (and occasionally because I forget who made what). It didn't seem too snotty, but perceptions differ from person to person. Ah, well. BTW, your artwork is getting better and better, judging from looking at your gallery.

I truely thank you for your words...They mean alot to me..One reason I stopped posting more of my creations(I do mean pictures)...Was because of the snotty attitude I receive and I found a place that truely enjoyed my work... I try and give credit where credit is due...I enjoy creating a scene or picture, most come from short stories I write...I think I just have a few here that don't like me...All is well tho...It is the internet after all... But your words are greatly appericated..They sooth the insult I recieved...But I am an honest man and wanted to clear up the mistake....my files consist of well over 500 and sometimes I forget totally who done what and I go racing back to the download file, which many I had to place on cd for harddrive space reason...to see if I can find the creator... I apperciate every creator out there...for without them I would have nothing to work with... Thanks again..It shows there are still some understanding and kind people out there...

It should have been a private e-mail to you informing you of your mistake, and you could have altered the text easy enough. Airing dirty in public isn't very brave, but one-on-one takes guts. :^)

Seems like you got the brunt of some pent up anger. I am always amazed at how some members can pick out a texture's origin even with dark lighting and alterations. It is handy when you can't remember where you got something from. If this is a purchased product, I don't see any need to promte the origin with each use. If there is that much attachment, maybe the merchant should have kept the product for themself. In this case the artist attempted to credit creators. I don't believe there is any sign of an attempt to purposely leave MnD out and a general remark about lights and morphs may have been misleading, but I doubt evil in intent. A polite IM would have sufficed. I bet there would have been an additional note added by the artist with out any uglyness. Don't bother looking for my gallery pages. I don't post here. I come to learn. As an unknown beginer, I don't know that I would get help by posting and would prefer not to suffer ridicule ( I do enough of that to myself, thank you) or probably worse not get any comment at all. By the way, nice work ever.

That is one reason I don't post in the gallery anymore. Seems there are always issues about certain textures need to be credited to use, or someone gets upset because they didn't get credited and on and on. Easier to just not upload. I always figured once you buy it you can do what you want with it. I mean, I don't buy clothes from a department store and walk around with a sign around my neck thanking who ever made them everytime I wear them ............ Like many people I mix and match so much I always forget what I used and who it's from. Ever, you are just getting better and better.

Have to say, I'm with Blackhearted [Howdy Gabe] - if someone pays their hard earned money for my items, they've already given me ample credit just by buying it. If they happen to mention it in image credits, that's a nice gesture and it's appreciated, but it's not neccessary. I definately wouldn't jump down someone's throat for not doing so or for making a mistake on where it came from... I have a 8.9 gig runtime folder, a lot of which is textures and props. Half the time, I have a hard time keeping track of all the variations of my own stuff, much less everyone elses. Sheesh.

heh...you think thats bad, try buying the stuff under one username and posting art under another. Then some of these merchants really jump all over your ass. And god forbid if you don't credit their crap on your gallery images...sometimes it makes you want to chuck the whole thing alltogether. But it's like Blackhearted said, MOST merchants are cool....but some really excel at making you feel like a jerk. Sasha

Those are the real jerks. Don't worry about it.

I agree with Blackharted, sometimes I also get bored to mention long lists of credits :) (and usually I have to edit the image once or more times 'cause I always forget to mention something :P) and anyway you're not obliged at all.
I certainly prefer that a picture is commented by the author for what it means to him or where he/she got inspiration or that is posted with a nice story that goes together with the pic rather than any list of credits.

Don't worry about it! Hope this will make you feel better and that you'll continue sharing your art with us :)

~*Siliphiel

oh, i'm sorry that happened to you. i know some of the merchants view our gallery as a personal ad campaign, with the work done by their customers, for free. there is no rule that you have to give "credit" to anyone you have bought from. i hate seeing long strings of who created what under a picture. what would be nice, though, would be....IF you really like something you used in your picture...to credit it, and it alone. might give the viewers a better clue as to what is cool and what is not in the market. nice picture, btw. don't let the meanies discourage you. pop...pop...Poppi!!!

I really think some merchants forget their place in the scheme of things. We pay someone for a product or service. That is the only thing they are entitled to. Merchants or artists can not tell us to give them credit. They can't forbid us from giving the product as a gift, etc. They don't have the right to poke into our computers or our personal business. Make your product, take our money, and leave it at that. In the end, you have the ultimate power on how to deal with undesirable behavior: 1.) Ask for a refund (you may not get it.) 2.) Boycott the artist in question, and tell others why.

There have been a couple of recent posts in the Poser gallery where the poster claimed credit for someone else's work. It seems clear from YOUR gallery post that this isn't what happened here, Ever. But I think you caught the backlash from that event. I'm sorry to see this happening, I really am. No one is obliged to give credit on their images, and if you purchased the product, it's yours. You certainly don't owe anyone an apology for not giving credit.

You have done more then others by posting this message and I applaude you for takeing a stand and Yes I agree that an IM would have been the first alternative then an e-mail then to the staff if nobody has either fixed the mistake or changed the credits...Bummer stuff like this still happens...

then an e-mail then to the staff if nobody has either fixed the mistake or changed the credits... he doesn't HAVE to fix the mistake or change the credits. we are not obligated to give credit in the gallery, PERIOD.

I like it when people credit me in their pictures, but that's only becourse it's the only way I ever get to see my props used by others. I run a search for my name every once in a while in the Gallery to see if anybody has posted something with my stuff on. But of course it's not a MUST, I guess it's just my vanity that I like to see my stuff around, and since a lot of people actually download the props, I guess at least SOME of it should show up in the gallery sooner or later. But as I haven't got the time to watch ALL the pictures in the gallery I have to pick and choose, and well, my trash items rarely end up in NVITWS-pictures G But I also have a very hard time when posting pictures, becourse as I of course credit my self (well have to advertize, right?) I feel it only fair to credit the other contributors to my images, and.... I can rarely remember where they come from. So if I occasionally forget someone, it's not intentional :o)

I've looked at everchangingdeity's image (nice pic, by the way)and though I'm sure it wasn't intentional, there is a possibilty that the merchant concerned could have thought he/she (?) was claiming credit for their work. But even so IM or email would have been a better way of clearing the misunderstanding up - not posting potentially defamatory comments under the artist's work. On a more general note, I always try to give credit for any free items I use. I do this because I really appreciate the efforts of the modelers and their generosity so giving a credit is the least I can do in return. But I am rather with crisjon regarding items I have bought. I still appreciate the modeler's work... but I've paid for it and so don't see why I should provide them with free advertising to boot. For a merchant to insist on a credit is rather like a department store insisting you use their logo emblazoned carrier bags. Having said all that, though, these type of merchents ARE a rare breed and will become rarer still if they keep taking shots at their customers.

I've had a look too & the comment wasn't a big over the top demand for recognition, just the creator pointing out a small error in your credits or has the comment been removed?, at least they haven't hounded you for weeks in email & threatened you with legal action like some dodgy merchants, who shall remain nameless, would do for not giving them credit. everc don't worry about it, just carry on making great pics & posting them for your adoring fans ;) Rob

Mental note : Send email to Heinz,Kellogs,Sony etc thanking them for letting me spend my hard earned on their products.

First let me say I looked at your render. I like it. I didn't think what Martin and Debbie said was a slam or rude, they just stated you gave the wrong people credit. <<>> To me this gets harder as more products are made. >>>I've finally come to my own way, I give credit to anything free, and products nice people have given me.>>> The products I bought, everyone knows I bought them anyway. I do sometimes put Quim2001 for his Dragonfly wings because so many people IM, when I don't have that down. and want to know where I got them. **** I agree with Blackheart and Ironbear too, for one thing when I use blackhearts KI-it's so orginal that everyone can tell it's his. *** I do find this whole thing hard to find a good answere too. For one thing I spell like a 2nd grader, and I'm a grandmother so thats embarrasing. Sometimes theres no name on the read me, or you just plain forgot who did what. So what we need is better way of writting credits. and believe me Martin and Debbie are very nice people and probably never thought they would hurt your feelings so much. Keep posting!

By the way, I in NO WAY intended to lump MnD productions in with my comment regarding that particular breed of merchant who insists on a credit with every picture. Just want to make that clear. Whew! Jack

I agree that marketplace vendors should not be jerks about requiring credit. However.. there is comment above from Crisjon1950 that bothers me, and I'd like to set things straight, for the record: "I really think some merchants forget their place in the scheme of things. We pay someone for a product or service. That is the only thing they are entitled to." You're not buying the product outright. You are licensing use of the product. There is a difference, the marketplace merchant retains all copyright and control over further development or propagation of the product. The buyer is entitled to everything set forth in the license.txt, that's all, read it! "Merchants or artists can not tell us to give them credit. They can't forbid us from giving the product as a gift, etc. They don't have the right to poke into our computers or our personal business." From the license: "Buyer is hereby granted a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to use all of the contents of the encapsulating archive file" I'm not sure what part of non-transferable crisjon1950 does not understand, but it's pretty clear to me that you cannot give someone a 'gift' of someone else's marketplace item, even if you intended not to keep a copy (yeah right). Gift = piracy. I'm not going to whine if people don't credit me, but if someone were to give away my stuff to all their R'osity buddies as a 'gift' or trade for other marketplace items, I would NOT be ok with that. -Adam

Merchants or artists can not tell us to give them credit. They can't forbid us from giving the product as a gift, etc.<<< Actually, they can. The part about credit - under the renderosity license agreement no merchant can require that. BUT if you bought a product elsewhere, or for certain freesuff items, check the EULA you purchased it under. You'd be surprised what slips in there, sometimes. Equally, under Renderosity's current system, the ONLY legal way to give a gift, is via the gift system. The license is non-transferrable. Which isn't to say most people would insist on the letter of the law...but that IS what the EULA says. If you purchse through some other site, or direct from the merchant, s/he can set any EULA s/he wants. Including banning gift-giving. The majority of the merchants here are pretty relaxed about all this. That doesn't mean those who aren't are in the wrong. For me, this is a hobby and a source of pocketmoney. For others it's a livelihood.

but it doesn't state in the license that the vendor is allowed to harrass someone who either was bought something as a gift or used a different name to buy it, not that I'm saying MnD harrassed everc, there should be limits to what a vendor can do as well. Rob

<< you cannot give someone a 'gift' of someone else's marketplace item, even if you intended not to keep a copy (yeah right). Gift = piracy >> Then I have several "Pirated" files. Several members od my family have bought me stuff from here, as well as from daz and other places as gifts They don't do digital art, but they know i do so they get me stuff sometimes (i.e., for Christmas and my birthday. <>You're not buying the product outright. You are licensing use of the product. There is a difference, the marketplace merchant retains all copyright and control over further development or propagation of the product. >> B.S. When someone buys something it beciomes their property. If you want to retain control over it you should cut your prices by at about 90%. I'm just waiting for the day someone tries to stop me from using something i received as a gift. I'll then take them to court to challenge the legality of the liscensing agreement which is an attempt to control what people can do with their own bought-and-paid-for property. While I'm at it I may try to milk the "punitive damages" cow a bit as well.

B.S. When someone buys something it beciomes their property. If you want to retain control over it you should cut your prices by at about 90%. Absolutely not! This comment makes it clear to me that you do not even understand the concept of licensing of intellectual property, let alone the terms of the Marketplace EULA. And I wasn't talking about the built-in gift system, I was talking about person 'A' buying the item for themsevles and copying it for person 'B' as a 'gift'. That's piracy, in no uncertain terms (it's the very definition thereof). -Adam

If someone buys you a marketplace item through the gift system, that is obviously totally legit because the license is granted to you, not the actual person paying.

Absolutely not! This comment makes it clear to me that you do not even understand the concept of licensing of intellectual property, let alone the terms of the Marketplace EULA.<< I understand the terms, I just reject them as the civil rights violation that they are. It is nothing more than an attempt to control what people can do wwith their own property. When you "liscense" abook or a record album you still have the right to give it away or sell it, so the same holds for software. >>And I wasn't talking about the built-in gift system<< neither was I. I mean that my sister or my dad or someone buys it and puts it on a CD and mails it to me. My family does that every christmas and birthday.

Since it is no secret that Deb, Martin and I are friends, I am sure that some will take what I have to say as my jumping to their defense. Instead, I hope my comments will be received with the spirit in which they were given, not spoken with prejudice but with a sincere desire to understand. And to that end, let me first say, that I wish my friend had taken his comment to everchanging in an IM before leaving it as a gallery comment and not inferred that the artist had done something to ruin the presentation of the textures, as I have seen far worse done with nothing said....but I can say that in honesty, because I am honest with my friends. What I don't understand is why, now that this seeming oversight or misinformation has been clarified, why have the credits on this image not been changed? Would it be such a hard thing to go to the image, hit the edit button and give the proper credit? Had you given NO one credit, I'd say that was unnecessary, but since you did bother to give credits and are now aware those credits are erroneous, wouldn't the proper thing be to edit those credits so they are correct? Not everyone reads comments, and I agree not everyone reads credits, but the people who are reading the credits are the potential customer of the vendors and as such, it is the right place to correct what appears to be a wrong. And as someone says here....we don't HAVE to give credit, but if we are going to bother to do so, we should do so correctly and when we as humans err, we should do the humanistic thing and correct those errors. Now I return you to your normal programming.

I understand the terms, I just reject them as the civil rights violation that they are. It is nothing more than an attempt to control what people can do wwith their own property. When you "liscense" abook or a record album you still have the right to give it away or sell it, so the same holds for software. I understand why you reject it, but you have to either reject it entirely (boycott the MP) or you have to agree to the terms. There is no legal middle road on this issue, no matter how personally violated or controlled you feel by the terms. neither was I. I mean that my sister or my dad or someone buys it and puts it on a CD and mails it to me. My family does that every christmas and birthday. That's totally legal, and not piracy in any way. You can buy someone software and they get the license, you just can't buy and 'share'. Situations like yours are fine, and people have certainly bought me stuff as gifts like that too. -Adam

OK, I thought you were saying no gift-giving at all.

I have no problem with legitimate gift giving. I also agree with you that non-transferable licensing sucks. So long as you are no longer using a product, and are definitely not keeping any copies for yourself, I think it's totally reasonable to be able to pass it on to someone else. Most software companies allow this too, if you arrange a transfer of the license with them (pain, but still better than a flat-out non-transferable license). Daz and the Marketplace don't agree with us on this point though; they argue that a if the product as been used at all, you have paid for whatever profit or enjoyment you got from using it, and you cannot expect to recoup this cost (just a different viewpoint really). In the end though, I have agreed to uphold the Marketplace terms because I want to sell there, because it will help keep R'osity running. For me, the non-transferable license issue is a minor quibble at best. I'd be happy to sell any of my customers a transferable license for $0.01 :-D -Adam

terminusnord: "You're not buying the product outright. You are licensing use of the product. There is a difference, the marketplace merchant retains all copyright and control over further development or propagation of the product. The buyer is entitled to everything set forth in the license.txt, that's all, read it!" You know, once I buy a product, I'll do anything I want with it. No, I don't intend to change a product and resell it. But if I want, I'll destroy it, ignore it, kiss it, swear at it. **** "I'm not sure what part of non-transferable crisjon1950 does not understand, but it's pretty clear to me that you cannot give someone a 'gift' of someone else's marketplace item, even if you intended not to keep a copy (yeah right). Gift = piracy." You don't even know what you're talking about. You really should think twice before accusing someone of a crime. My wife doesn't use Poser or any of the graphics programs I use. My wife has bought me a year's subscription to Poserworld and several Poser-related items as gifts. My wife has allowed me to make several purchases as well, using her credit card. I don't have a credit card. Of course I don't need to explain myself to you or anyone else. **** As for credits, I'm working on an idea to showcase the products of various artists on my web site. For instance I have a large section showing many resources available for Mike. Each section shows who made the articles, and where they can be bought, or obtained for free. I would just point people there if they wanted to see the credits for items used in my work. Otherwise, I'm liable to use the same hair or outfits in several renders, and I get tired of repeating myself.

i do believe the whole custom of "crediting" came about in a kinder, gentler time in poserdom. way back in the days when folks actually helped one another....by, gasp...actually SHARING techniques and freebies. then, came the great renderosity split, with the advent of the marketplace. well, folks did see that all this "crediting" could be profitable....sinamin said it..."but the people who are reading the credits are the potential customer of the vendors and as such, it is the right place to correct what appears to be a wrong." and a monster was born. i give credit to the makers of freestuff. i give credit to those products i think are "must haves". i am not much of a consumer, since i find it fun to "make my own". at least, i know i can go into the gallery, post, and not be called a thief. that to me, is worth having fewer posts, and having to do more work to make one. i think some of this "crediting", and the paranoia that seems to go with some of the merchants CAN hurt feelings. last year, i downloaded a free texture....then read that something was wrong with the download, and, never used it. i was reading a thread about a character with one letter different in the spelling, and, mentioned that i had that character...in error....but, had not unzipped it. next morning....yup...i had ims from the merchant...if i recall correctly, even an email through my isp, telling me that she did not recollect my purchasing said character. it hit me, and i felt really BAD. i felt accused over a typo. stuff like that is wrong. even though it was settled discreetly, and in private, i still felt hurt. i cannot imagine how badly i would feel if someone posted a comment of that sort under a gallery picture. it's so easy for merchants to stick together, using the term "warez" as a blanket for behavior that is less than kind. and, you know what is the saddest thing? i bet the warezer's could give a rat's ass about having their feelings hurt by a merchant. no, mostly that is for the honorable folks.

You don't even know what you're talking about. You really should think twice before accusing someone of a crime. Crisjon, I'm not accusing you or anyone else here of any crimes, so please don't put words in my mouth. I was expressing concern over your remarks, because your comment "Merchants or artists can not tell us to give them credit. They can't forbid us from giving the product as a gift, etc. They don't have the right to poke into our computers or our personal business" sounded very reactionary and anti-merchant to me. In subsequent posts, I clarified that I was only interested in making sure people don't take your comment the wrong way. Certainly there is nothing wrong with using your wife's credit card to buy things... but that's entirely different from implying that you now own that stuff and are free to use it and then give it to whomever you please, merchants be damned. (which is how the tone of your original comment reads to me). -Adam

From the license: "Buyer is hereby granted a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to use all of the contents of the encapsulating archive file" I'm not sure what part of non-transferable crisjon1950 does not understand, but it's pretty clear to me that you cannot give someone a 'gift' of someone else's marketplace item, even if you intended not to keep a copy (yeah right). Gift = piracy. Actually this is one thing the bothers the hell out of me, not that terminusnord said but that in essence he is correct. According to the license, I cannot transfer the license of software I've purchased from this site or others sites like it because I'm forbidden to do so by the license. I find that to be pretty strange consider even Mircoserf recognizes that the consumer has the right to transfer the license at will if they wish to. Stopping the second-hand market has been attempted on video's, cd's and other forms of copyable materials. The courts have sided with the consumer every single time. But try putting one of the marketplace items up for sell second hand and see where that gets you. If you're lucky the thread is locked with something similar to 'this is not something we want to deal with' if you're unlucky someone screams that nasty W word. As for giving credit, always try to credit the creators of the free items you are using. Purchased items get their credit when they got your greenbacks. However if they really want their names on your images remember advertising rates are 0.05 cents per page view. ;) -Moon

It bothers and angers a lot of people, me included sometimes. You can't resell anything from Daz either. And you can't resell your copy of Poser 4 on ebay, even if you are purchasing the full version of 5 (rather than an upgrade). I suspect (and sincerely hope) that these companies are putting these restrictions on the resale of their products only as a last resort because they absolutely have to in order to keep in business. As much as it burns me to not be able to resell the Daz items I realise I'm never going to use, I'd still rather eat the cost than see Daz go out of business (no Vicky 3, that would be a real disaster!) -Adam

I'd still rather eat the cost than see Daz go out of business (no Vicky 3, that would be a real disaster!) -Adam if daz went out of business...i think....the new shopping function in p5 would make it very easy for the same group of folks who have been creating for daz to set up individual shops via cl...not sure how this is gonna work, but, i know it sounds like a wonderful idea for 3rd party creators. my kids got me a bunch of daz stuff the christmas, and, mother's day before last. i was sooooo amazingly happy to open my email and find the download links. of course, that was a while back....i couldn't get anton's pony to work right...and, i mentioned it in forum. he sent me instructions, and, like won my heart as a wonderful merchant. but, last holidays...after the blackhearted/steffyzz threads....i did not tell them what i really wanted.....god forbid i get accused of thievery. sigh...i like purses, and wallets. they were some swell gifts...but, nothing that brought actual tears of joy. one of these days, i will put my junk into one of those new purses....and, go to work. daz could go out of business. but, folks like anton will remain....and continue with their "must haves" for poserdom. as for warez...it sucks. so do child kidnappings, car jackings, drive by shootings, etc. yet, i can't go about in MY world accusing people, or making them feel small because i think they MIGHT have cheated their finance company on their vehicles. come on....some of the attitudes from our merchants remind me of the spanish inquisition. why in this virtual world is it okay to insult ones clients?

"why in this virtual world is it okay to insult ones clients?" Because they are not face to face and can say and do pretty much what they want...And If I read the happenings back a little while ago with A CERTAIN someone we all know who...got mad and started accusing a whole bunch of people of stealing their Textures and look what happened...Someone got shut down and someone is still makeing tons of money from a well orchestrated Promotional attack...What did the little outburst do for the artist who got shut down for nothing(unless it has been proven in court and I havent heard yet)was heartache and maybe an heart attack...For the Merchant who Accused the Artist alls they got was more sales to me it looked like nothing more then a sales promotion to sell more product and to me that is ullhit but folks will be folks and as long as we buy and we sell there will always be mistakes honest ones and not so honest so for us who use start makeing sure you attach a note in the download file even tho mistakes happen and now folks pretty much let you know when one was made but like the above links said it should have been handled between the two parties not all of renderosity...

And both Deb and Martin are some of the nicest people you can hope to meet... there is no way in hell they would deliberately insult customers, or anybody!

And both Deb and Martin are some of the nicest people you can hope to meet... and, yet...when i first came here...i just wanted to be a part of this site. i commented on many of her pictures. she has yet to comment on one of mine. (and, guys....i get alot of comments, when i get a chance to post.) i have never gotten a "thank you" for commenting on any of her gallery images....yet, many others have taken the time to drop a line. martin...he does very nice work. i have never tried to get to know him. debbiem...i felt snubbed. so, she may be one of the "nicest" to you. but, perhaps to some of the rest of us, the perception is different. obviously, she has time to look at the gallery. obviously, she has time....from what i see in this thread, to post replies. now, i have seen her...omg...i am speechless...let me pick my jaw up off the floor replies to gallery pics by friends. now, i have seen an ascerbic reply because she did not feel she was given the proper "tribute" by someone who had purchased something from her. i have yet to see her being just plain ol'....nicest people you can hope to meet... wanderin' off wondering if someone could actually be "nice" to me here, because they knew i would whip out my credit card for their newest creation....as opposed to being...somewhat rude, to rude because they know that i tend to make my own stuff, and use the cc for reality issues. so much to ponder. and, no...was just not saying this because i feel the need for flattering comments. eowynn consistently points out the flaws in my renders....i respect her talent to the nth degree...and, think she is as nice a person as you could want to meet in cyberspace.

For the Merchant to demand to be recognised for makeing...Be it Texture,Model ect is wrong in my thinking,It is a Privaledge if someone uses what I create and if they Bought from me I always give alot extra more then they bought...I mention in my READ ME that I would like them to let me know when they upload a pic so I can view and more then likely get inspiration from them I also state that it is not a requirement...Hey folks what is that old saying...."Cant we all just get along"...People are dying all over the world from starvation and other man made destructions and all we have to do is sit around and complain that a person who bought my product didnt give me credit...Come on Folks lets all gather around the old campfire...come on its story tellin time...Once upon a time way back in the past there was this group of artists who gathered from all corners of the world and banded together to save the world this is their Tale....

I look at it this way (as if anyone cared): Posting in the galleries here should mention/credit all people (paid or free) who helped make it happen. I see it this way because this is a community of artists. I think they should share just how they came about making their art. This serves 2 purposes in my HO: (1) If someone sees something that you used, they know where to get it. (2) It makes people whose items you have used, either purchased or taken freely, appreciate your credit. All-in-all, a friendlier place. But that is for R'City and its galleries. Should I ever sell an item (around the time hell freezes over), I wouldn't credit anyone. It wouldn't appear in the media it was presented, and the purchaser certainly wouldn't give a damn. The only thing I would ensure was that I sought (or had) appropriate rights to sell the item in question with concerns with whose items I used. In the background, though, I would certainly let the people who "assisted" know.

I think they should share just how they came about making their art. so, ANTON....SEEE...chuck evans says you must share your method of the "handles". i am so glad of this, 'cause i read the stuff others write about this technique, and, still don't get it. i want to use your handle technique on 1. clothing 2. potential hair articles 3. props...would that work? remember...chuckevans commands this. woohoo...tomorrow i will have your secrets. thanks, chucke.

terminusnord: "Crisjon, I'm not accusing you or anyone else here of any crimes, so please don't put words in my mouth. I was expressing concern over your remarks, because your comment "Merchants or artists can not tell us to give them credit. They can't forbid us from giving the product as a gift, etc. They don't have the right to poke into our computers or our personal business" sounded very reactionary and anti-merchant to me." You put those words in my mouth. It almost appears you've appointed yourself head of this thread?! The minute I mentioned a gift, you quoted me, and mentioned the word piracy. That is seen as an accusation and insult. The least you could do is apologize to me, directly. Instead you choose to dig in and quibble some more.

i have yet to see her being just plain ol'....nicest people you can hope to meet... I just couldn't sit back and leave this alone, even though I promised myself once I made my initial post, I wouldn't say anything else in this thread. But I will not sit here while someone who clearly admits they do not know Debbie, maligns her on a personal level. I didn't meet Debbie because I whipped out a credit card and bought anything she had for sale. I was new to poser, and I read somewhere in someone's gallery or perhaps a thread here in the forum, that she had a good tutorial for painting hair. Familiar with Moonlight Designs from my PSP days, I went to her site but found no such tutorial. So, I took a moment, dropped her an IM, apologized for the intrusion, explained my need and asked her to point me in the right direction. Not only did Debbie answer me, she offered to help me as I learned. I took her at her word, assumed her offer was sincere, and dang...imagine my delight when it turned out that she was this incredibly sincere person, willing to take some time to help a poser newbie and a stranger, without any expectation of anything in return. That is who Debbie is. Debbie is not the type of person who would come to a thread and bemoan that so and so isn't commenting on her images. Debbie isn't the kind of person who would come here and explain that her computer time is limited...she works a full time job, she's a full time mom, she has a part time job, and a life outside of the poser community. Debbie isn't the kind of person who would come here and defend herself by listing the people whom she helps without the slightest thought of what they will, can or should do for her. No, Debbie is a much bigger person than that. Debbie gives back to this community generously. If she doesn't have the time to comment on your gallery or thank you profusely for commenting on hers, why assume she is some type of mean-spirited person out to slight you? Is it so far fetched to even give credence to the thought that she might be busy or have a real life? And would it be too much effort, if you sincerely want her artistic opinion, to write her and ask her, when she has time, to take a moment to look through your gallery and give you some pointers? Now, if after doing that you came here and belly ached about Debbie not being a great person, I might have something worth while to listen to. Debbie M is now my friend...but she became that over time, time she spent helping someone new who could barely turn poser on. Debbie exemplifies what the poser community is about and I am PROUD to be her friend.

isn't the kind of person who would come here and explain that her computer time is limited...she works a full time job, she's a full time mom, you can't be a "full time" mom, and work "full time" outside of the home. period. , why assume she is some type of mean-spirited person out to slight you? i was not assuming that...merely stating the fact. from what i have seen in the gallery is this: she makes the time to look at the gallery images that use her stuff. i am just thinking she does not bother looking at my stuff because she knows, she won't be seeing any of her goods showcased there. how you came to so many conclusions as to what i was thinking is beyond me.... But I will not sit here while someone who clearly admits they do not know Debbie, maligns her on a personal level. i did not "malign" her. i merely stated my observation of the comments that i have seen her make in the gallery...up to, and, including the comment on everchanging's pic. that's all....no more, no less.

Why on earth are sales and ownership of electronic stuff not covered by the common practice of the real world? If I purchase a thing from a producer or his duly licensed vendor, that thing is mine to do with as I choose - so long as I do not claim that I am the originator of that thing, nor replicate that thing for distribution. I can resell the original - that does not have deleterious effect on the profits of the originator, since he has made his money off that one thing once. If I were to copy that thing and sell or give away these copies I would then certainly be cutting into the profits of that thing's originator and be guilty of plagiarism/piracy. Once I become competent in the process of doing so, it is my firm intent to make and sell props/models, and I would be quite upset if an end-user bootlegged any of them and distributed these illegitimate copies - that'd be money out of MY pocket, and since I was the one who put in the brainsweat and time in that object's creation it is fair to deem this as theft on both an ethical and legal basis. Additionally, I would be a little annoyed if some clown flounced around CLAIMING to have created this object, since that could also hurt my profits (by diverting customers) on top of being a massive insult and quite possibly an example of identity fraud - which is a felony. On the other hand, why the hell should I be allowed to "demand" credit for these props in each and every single public use thereof? That's excessive. I'd appreciate such recognition, but I just don't see how demanding it could be legally justified. That'd be like Mazda demanding that every time I brought my B2200 light pickup to a full, complete stop I "must" get out and at the top of my voice sing the Mazda corporate anthem! Such nonsense.

There is a difference in demanding credit and demanding CORRECT credit. There appear to be arguments here based on the idea that a merchant is demanding credit when really it sounds like a merchant saw a mis-credited item and wanted it corrected. How they did that should have been in an IM, obviously but we've all made judgement errors. I would correct someone if I saw them giving someone else credit for my textures (or taking credit). Don't bash someone for something they didn't do.

"...if you bought a product elsewhere, or for certain freesuff items, check the EULA you purchased it under. You'd be surprised what slips in there, sometimes." I was not taking anyone specific to task, since the incident which initiated this discussion appears to have been much as you describe. I was taking the above-quoted absurdity to task.