Renderositys Mission is to create a thriving, productive environment that encourages an atmosphere of community, respect, collaboration, and growth for graphic artists of all backgrounds.
Destructive commentary/communications made with the intent to disrupt or attack (Trolling). This applies to any communications within this community, whether in the forums, art galleries, graffiti wall, chat, or IM.
A member was banned a few weeks back, and we all know who, and yes he was disruptive... but at least he was a POSER user. Now we a have a member "a non POSER" user, that comes here with only one intention... and it is attack POSER and POSER users. I do not mind hearing about the bugs and faults in Poser5, but I am more than sick of hearing this guys comments. This is Our POSER Forum for POSER users, so how about giving this guy the boot? Anyone else feel the same way? Niles

I do. I only have a hunch about who you mean, but if I'm right I couldn't agree more.

Boot him!!! By the way, who got banned a few weeks ago and why? --jjsemp

I got a IM. today It said I should try differant art work and quit doing the same old thing. Along thoes lines. I looked and this person has no art gallery here at all. the message was longer and more of a personal attack on I need to grow and not be afraid of change. etc-etc. Has anyone eles got that type thing?

Hey Turtle, I like you stuff! Don't let some troll get you down!

turtle u have some of the best artwork i seen :) i know who your talking about give he/she the boot its annoying. everyone who post is a work of art just because its not like a piccasso or monet or something abstract and makes you think doesnt make it any less.

Turtle uses a technique to stamp out Poser images one after the other. I wouldn't call it artwork though. Just mass-produced 2D work like you see in Wal*Mart mailers.

If you cant say anything nice don't say anything at all SHONNER. If you don't like her artwork, keep your opinions to yourself. If you don't consider her artwork artwork, shove that opinion in a pipe and smoke it till the cows come home. Here tosses SHONNER a dime Call someone who cares what you think!

SHONNER,

Trolling is against our TOS, please do not continue this activity.

-JeffH.
Renderosity

Niles I presume you are talking about Shonner and not me :) Because I am vocal about my disagreement with some of CL's latest 'advancments' in Poser 5 - but I am a Poser 4 and Pro Pack user... And I have been kinda 'harsh' resently in regards to asking people to attempt to do new stuff with their work instead of keeping to a true and tried "formula"... And I'm sorry Turtle yours is one of those I believe needs to move forward and try new things with your art... but that is my opinion - and certainly not something I would expect someone to take offense at. It is my opinion of a lot of artist recently that people are getting comfy with just posing a bought model, a couple or three objects, and that is your picture. And boy I know people don't like the fact I am thinking that way - but I'm sorry there is more to art (IMHO) then dressing up a doll... Now if I (or anyone) is wrong for saying that, then I would be guilty - but I'm sure as hell not going to start telling people I love their work especially when I believe that the people who have talent on here are wasting their talent by not exploring their talent and trying to reach new heights, (which is one of the reasons I have not been posting - because I am exploring myself and my art a lot more.. and don't wish to flood the list with millions of really shitty stuff :P) I don't know Shonner - nor know his work, though the only one in his gallery is ... well not there - so kinda not good. However, personally as long as people don't get personal then honest constructive information about ones feelings is the least we can ask for in this community. If Shonner gives contructive help - then I don't see as it being bad ... if not... nuke him :)

I agree, I'm getting really fed up with seeing a certain name pop up all over the poser forum, this name has been in the Lightwave forum for months trashing poser even though it owns a copy of poser & happily uses it all the time. It's not SHONNER, try looking for the "Poser Cloner", that's his description for us poser users & nothing that came from his typing fingers so far has been constructive. Rob

I just can't put something out of my head, and I know I'm going to be hated for what I'm about to say - but hell I'm in a depressed suicidal mode so might as well shot myself here :) Something Kitten said disturbs me: "If you don't like her artwork, keep your opinions to yourself" I'm sorry people but it doesn't work this way - if you leave yourself open for comments you can't pick and choose what comments you want and what you don't. I believe in giving information that helps a artist - even if I like the piece I will find something I feel could be improved. It is what I expect of the people who look at my stuff, and it is what I give back. However, not everyone is like that (nor do I expect them to be) - but here is the thing that bugs me. It is perfectly right in the eyes of the people here for one to post a comment which says, "I love your piece, it is wonderful." and yet, if one says something like, "I didn't like your piece." it is seen as bad... It is fine to praise someone, but not okay to say you don't like something. I can understand the dislike for trolls - and I'm not saying Trolling is right... but at the same time I really am sick of the "you can only say good thing" mentality I'm starting to see thrown in everyone's faces on this and others forums... I'm going to be blunt, because that is the only way I can approach this: If you can't take the heat, don't jump in the fire. You ask for comments by posting your stuff with Comments enabled. If you don't want the risk of those comments to be bad, then just turn comments off, and ask your friends to message you their precise. If that is all you are after, precise on order, then please just IM your friends and ask them to tell you how grand you are. But if you do turn on comments then don't you dare come down on people (like me!) who are being honest when they say they don't like something of yours. Because if you do, then you are not artist enough to take those comments are the jewels of honour they are... I would give my left lung to have more people telling me they didn't like something, than just getting a million and one comments saying how "great" it is! And I would give my second lung for that person to tell me why! Im not defending trolls who just go around putting people down but be damn careful in telling people not to make negative comments about someones work because it offended me /me gets of her soapbox! WiNC

btw - what is a Troll? Kitten - do you have a gallery??

I don't mind contructive criticism of my pics, I hesitate to call them art cause they stink actually, but I really don't like when someone just posts something like "this pic sucks" without any helpful hints or suggestions, it's even worse when the person making those comments doesn't have any of their own work to show. Rob

Yeah but Rob - a lot of people out there who will make comments about your work won't have a thing to do with art themselves. look at Movie Critics (do they make movies), or Book Critics or even Art Critics - most of this people are people with opinions and are just willing to take the brunt of people hating them for putting something down. WiNC

'rosity hiccup again :) ok maybe the bit about having nothing to show is a bit off, but I would rather constructive criticism than insults, it's not too much to ask for.

Yeah - I wanted to get my point across but certainly didn't want it posted 8-9 times :) LOL And I agree with you c1rcle - and I love people telling me what they don't like - but at the same time, if everyone tells me they love something of mine, I feels hollow. It is just people saying, "Oh WiNC posted - I must say something nice"... I would rather have people be honest, than lie... And I believe any artist out there would probably feel just like I do - but again this is my opinion and I totally believe people have the right to tell me I'm wrong :) Unlike many people in the free world - I believe totally in the freedom of speech, and to tell me I'm wrong :P WiNC (though if you insult me - be warned - I have big friends in big places... I mean it - one guy is like the size of a house smile)

9 times out of 10 when I post a pic people say "how nice" or "well done", yes it's nice to be told things like that, but there's very few people here who have the courage to step up & say "this is nice but......here's how I'd fix it.....", the few times I've seen this it's been the people I most respect from here who are saying it. Freedom of speech is ok but you can't really say what you want these days ;)

We all know, don't we, that just because one person out of more than 100,000 Rendosity members makes a suggestion, we aren't obliged to take it or take it to heart.

Recently I received some rather detailed suggestions on how to improve my graphics (I'm at the beginner stage...there is almost nothing I couldn't improve on my graphics). I didn't happen to agree with some of what was said. I thanked the person and said I respectfully disagreed. The person then implied (though I may have misinterpreted them) that I was being defensive. In truth, I respect the fact that they took the time to write. I simply did not agree with the opinion they provided, nor did I particularly agree with their interpretation of my graphic (what they wanted, I think, was for me to change the graphic so it matched more closely what they thought the graphic was about).

You don't have to be an artist to have an opinion about what you like...I hope everyone has that right and the right to express that opinion (though I don't think that right extends to a persistent attack....people should have the common sense to leave another person alone after they've indicated a lack of interest). We are fortunate on this gallery to have skilled graphic artists to comment on each other's works, but often the best critics have good insight but not necessarily the skills.

Bottom line...you as the creator don't have to accept their opinion. So while I appreciate, very much, someone who takes the time to track me down and offer suggestions, it doesn't mean I automatically rush to redo all my graphics as a result. Will I do my next graphic differently as a result of the comments? It depends on whether for that graphic that it is relevant for me to change. Part of it, for me, is that my graphics change as I learn new skills....I have a long way to go and I know my abilities limit what I can now present. My critic may be happier with what I produce in two or three months as I learn how to better express my themes.

Or my critic may never be happy with what I do. Then I gently suggest they find someone else who graphics they can enjoy more than mine.

The point is, it's a two way street but you don't have to drive down it. And it may be just 1 person out of more than 100,000 ... a lot of times people who like what you're doing and don't have anything to suggest for improving it will not write at all.

Life is short. Do you want to spend your energy on this person or doing your graphics to your own satisfaction? You always have a choice. And let's face it, there are some people out there who wouldn't be happy with the equivalent of Van Gogh or Picasso on these galleries. Oh well, that's their problem and not mine.

Seems this thread slipped by. Sorry it's taken a while before any of us got to it. If you are having problems with a member, please forward any relevant info to the moderator of the forum/gallery where the offending person is posting, or if it's a forum/gallery without a named moderator or the mod(s) aren't online, feel free to contact any of us. Please make sure to refer to the offender by their real member name as opposed to references like 'you know who I mean' as this makes life all the more difficult for us. Contrary to the stated opinions of some folks, we do actually give a damn about everyone here, and if the odd person or two is disrupting the rest of the community we'll deal with whoever it is using whatever means we have at our disposal in order to make things 'right' the way they should be. Kevin.

Yup, What Kevin said.

Everyone is free to post comments that are less than flattering. We do require that the comments aren't hurtful, though. And it's preferred if the comments are helpful. If you don't like something, try to find a way to explain what looks wrong and how to improve it. The whole point of the comments area is to help the artist learn what works and what doesn't work. As dialyn pointed out, though, the artist doesn't have to agree with your opinion. (They do have to respect it, though.) I've seen some obvious trolls in the galleries, but I've also seen artists throw a fit because someone tactfully said that a piece needed some work. I don't know who is being referrenced in this thread, but please give the info to one of the moderators or admins so we can look into the situation. We don't put up with people who insult and drive other members away. Thanks!

Interesting thread to say the least!

Crescent - Sorry I disagree. Again it is prefectly okay for someone to say "I love your work" but not okay for someone to say, "I don't like your work."?? I know what I expect and hope people will put on my pictures - and I don't like it when people say they don't like something - but again I believe they have that right to say what they want. I don't agree with hurtful personal comments - those are not about the work, they are about the person - and are wrong. But if someone told me they didn't like my work just by saying, "I don't like this piece." then I'm not going to complain or be upset. In fact I would be honoured that they told me the truth and said something when they could have just ignored it. Again - there shouldn't be one standard for one and another for another. If those who love a piece don't have to qualify why they love it, why should those who don't like a piece? WiNC (damn I need a life - debating gets tiring :P)

Saying, "I don't like your work" isn't hurtful. Saying, "Boy, does that suck!" is. Saying, "I don't like this and here's why" is better than simply saying that it's bad. No, it's not required to explain your opinion, but what are you accomplishing by simply saying, "Ick?" Have you ever seen a bad movie and simply said, "Boy, that was bad!" but couldn't say why it was bad? I bet that you had a reason why you didn't like it most of the time. Maybe the plot sucked, or the dialog was written by five year olds, etc., but you had some idea on what was wrong. The same goes with pictures. People can't improve if they don't know what needs improving. I'm simply suggesting that it is more helpful if you can give an explanation of why something isn't to your liking. I need a life, too. Does anyone know where I could buy one cheap? ;-)

Yeah it is more helpful - but have you ever had that time when you have seen a bad movie and you have said, "Gods I hated that" but when people ask why you are left unable to answer why because usually you don't know why? Or maybe you know why but you don't want to honestly name the 2 million bad things you noticed :) And I hear Microsoft are planning on producing a new product called "Life"... the only problem is - the moment you really need Life to work, it blue screens on you :) WiNC

In my opinion, Tuttle is a better artist than Turtle. Then you'll know what I'm talking about. I understand that some people here don't like being told that someone doesn't care for their artwork. And I also understand that whoever says "The Emperor is naked" in this forum will get personally attacked by the adoring mob. It's just that when I read about how great someone's work is, I expect to see some greatness. If one person here disagrees with you guys, it's the end of the world all of a sudden. SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

Shonner - While I agree with your comments on Turtle's work - that she needs to spread her wings and try other stuff (she certainly has the talent for it) I do think the WalMart thing was a little... um... 'unneeded' :) But I totally agree - there is an opinion here that if you don't praise the glory of someone you are a Troll. And that is something I'm not happy about. I am honest, sometimes too bluntly honest - but I believe everyone who posts their work to this community has the right to have honesty. If not - then what is this community really for? To me - art should be a way for you to explore yourself and your mind. If you just create work which is safe, you will never expand... BTW - Shonner - who is the music on your site? Sounds like ELO? WiNC

Mass-produced artwork is not a bad thing. It's just not interesting to me. Most of Turtle's figures have glazed eyes, unnatural poses, don't tell a story, don't envoke any empathy from me, appear as nicely dressed mannequins. Turtle has a very good technical grasp of Poser, though. SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

Shonner - you didn't answer my question about the music on your homepage - I can't continue pressing refresh on your homepage over and over to listen to it :P And yeah - that is a very good way of putting it - I'm not overly interested in mass-produced artwork - it has its place however (a number of them are up on my study wall :P) I have noticed with your pitures that you like to explorer your ideas also... not everyone does - but just like you and I those people can't expect everyone to agree with their pictures. Just because we don't agree with something doesn't make us Trolls... maybe Ogres sometimes - but not Trolls :) (though I think of myself as a bitchy Nymph who just isn't that tacful sometimes :P) lol

To WiNC: It's ELO from their TIME albumn. Wal*Mart has had great success through their artwork. They are one of the most powerful retailers in the US. They certainly know how to sell. And Turtle's artwork has accomplished the same thing with this group. They're buying into it with all of their many high praises. Quantity, tough, is still not quality in my book. I don't IM people about their artwork, by the way. So it wasn't me. SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

I think there is a real difference between constructive criticism aimed at improving a graphic that you think could be made better, and attacking an artist for not doing what you want them to do. I think it is important to allow for the fact that different people have different styles and different preferences. If all my characters have purple hair...get a clue. I like purple hair. Telling me you hate purple hair isn't going to get me to change the hair to green. But if you give me information about a particular picture where an element could be changed to help, that's different. One person told me that they noticed all my lighting came from above and asked (ASKED....NOT TOLD) if I had tried side lighting to make a more mysterious look. Well, I tried it the next time and I liked it. Good advice given politely as an inquiry was something I could receive. If the same person had told me, "Your lighting sucks," I'd have hit delete and gone on my merry, top lighting way. People will not change until they are ready to change and the more you beat them up, the more resistent to change they become. Be supportive and constructive, and they may be more open to listening to you. And I guarantee every artist and non-artist here has someone who likes their work and someone who hates it. And that's just part of being creative.

I'm thrilled to get any comments. Doesn't matter to me how they read. I can usually figure out what they mean if they just say "It sucks". But if I can't, I'll reply back to them and ask for more detail. I won't just hit DELETE, though. SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

but dialyn - why should people be more open to "I love your work" then compared to "I don't like your work." It isn't a insult of their person - it is just a honest response to the art work in question... What would you have said if I had just posted on your piece, "I don't like this picture" - is that any less valueable then "I like this picture". Honestly they are both really useless to a inspiring author because neither give you anything to help you become better. The "I don't like this picture" doesn't give you any reason why they don't like it, and the "I like this picture" doesn't give you any reason why they do like it. It is like getting an assignment back and only getting 95% - but only getting "Great Assignment" - but not knowing why you still lost that 5%... My point is that just because someone says they don't like something - does not mean they shouldn't say it. They are just being as vage as those who say they like your piece. And they shouldn't be treated any differently for being honest. There are far too many people in this community who believe "that if you can't say something nice don't say anything" and it is the WORST PC bullshit ever produced! Because if people don't say anything - we will never know anything... WiNC (Damn I have to start writing shorter posts!)

Shonner thanks for the Album name - I have their greatest hits and was reluctant to get any more of their stuff - but I really like the one on your homepage... your poor homepage is getting hounded by me each time I listen to it :) LOL And I totally agree with your comment about not Deleting posts - there is only one person I have had issues with, and that was someone who went through all my pictures and posted, "You suck and so does your pictures." ... needless to say after talking with me he removed them all... WiNC

Liberals will tell you that you shouldn't judge things. So why ask for comments then about your artwork? Or does commenting really mean that you're acknowledging having viewed it. Just comment, "Yep. It saw it. It's there all right. Good job uploading." SHONNER http://www.shonner.com

WiNC: The homepage music is from The 5th Element movie.

Shonner: I'm talking about music on your gallery :) Which isn't from 5th Element (I have that CD - I love the writer of that music I have a LOT of his stuff smile)

Ok. I have to head home and see if Poser 5 arrived yet.

WiNC...I'm not saying they shouldn't have an opinion....they just shouldn't get upset because the person creating the graphic ignores that opinion. If you tell me every single graphic I do stinks ("Your stuff sucks") that is your personal opinion. Say it. Get on with your life. But don't keep attacking me with it. Say it once and if you don't have anything else useful to say, move on. What I don't get is why someone would repeatedly attack a particular artist on the galleries with such vague comments. It's obvious an ego boost for the critic, or some sick game, but it's not useful, and the artist shouldn't change just because somebody doesn't like what they do. You don't have to like what I do. Don't look at it. If you don't like my work, tell me once and go elsewhere. Why is that so difficult? Allow me to do what I want in peace. If you have a constructive way of improving it, fine. I may, or may not listen. But telling me I stink doesn't do anything. And notice that I don't have my stuff open for comments....I'm not trolling for people to tell me how great I am. I know I'm not great. I know I have a lot to learn. Tell what I need to know that will allow me to grow as an artist. Telling me you hate my work only tells me something about you. And I am only using you and me as reference points and not directed toward anyone particular. I don't believe WiNC, for example, has ever said an unkind word to me. Actually, overall, I have found people on these forums very supportive and helpful. This obviously is an important point or we would be all debating it with such emotion. And I think that's a good thing in itself. If it makes us think about what we write before we write it, that's a good thing.

"Blech!"....is BAD...(and I HAVE seen this word used under renderings aplenty when I was an admin...heck...I had to remove the dreaded plagues...)....saying..."Look...I think maybe you need some shadow under your character because they tend to float"...is NOT....but....you would be shocked how many would pee themselves from that second statement as well....and insist on having it removed!!! If artists think comments with criticism are bad news...they have NEVER met an art director or art critic...or shown a portfolio and got smacked in the ego...time and time again... Art is a perrogative...not everyone likes the same things...sometimes folks even like art that may mean "horrible" to others...then there are those that don't get noticed till they are dead and then their relatives get rich from their art...then there is the lucky sap that paints three lines diagonally and gets millions because he happens to be in the right place at the right time with a bare wall and a rich politician wanting to cover it that don't know art from his knee socks... I have seen folks who can create like there is no tomorrow....get cut down like dead tree's....and others that can't do a stickman that have an ego the size of a watermelon....and do well too... Tales of the artistic and no-talented.... Chill....it's not near as bad as you think here....not even NEAR!!

dialyn you are a dork! (sorry just had to say a unkind word to you because I can't have people making me sound like I'm a nice person :) ) I argee with you regarding people posting "your work sucks" through all your gallery... just say it once - I think we get the message :) The thing is - someone telling you they don't like your work (that picture for example) isn't a bad thing. I believe more then anything it is a great indication on knowing there is something not right with your work, and maybe you should relook at it from another prespective. One person told me "I found this work boring." Wow - most people would honestly take that as a insult and get upset (I know - I have been on the recieving end) - however I found it a great indication that my work had issues and it was maybe too simular to everyone elses stuff. The ones I do get upset about are those that put your work down, without proof. I have had one person who said I just posed a figure with default post, and attached a skin to it... the skin was my own, and the poser figure took almost an hour or so to put into the position I wanted (and it was only for a friend I did it anyway :) ) And honestly sometimes the full opinions of others are worse then someone just telling you, "I don't like this picture." because sometimes that person is totally wrong, and is more abusive that way then if they just don't like it. All to their own - but again - I hate seeing comments like what Kitten said to Shonner... we have the right of our opinions - we just don't have the right to give people personal attacks. And yeah "Blah!" Should be made an illegal word in the english langague - it means... what? :) Same as "Doh!" ARGH! WiNC (unless there is anything new added I think I will leave this - I'm starting to sound like a broken record... ...i'm starting to sound like a broken record... ...i'm starting to sound like a broken record... ...i'm starting to sound like a broken record...... :)

Someone telling me they don't like my work doesn't tell me anything except they don't like my work. It is no reflection on me or my work. It is one person's opinion...and I may or may not value it. I have to respect a person to accept their criticism...if they just say "bleah," then I consider the source and continue on my merry way. I'm not trying to take a vote and the majority gets to decide what I do or don't do with my graphics. It's a monarchy and I'm queen and I have power of life and death over my little Poser subjects. And dork isn't the worst thing anyone has called me today. :) I just got Poser 5 installed. And the registration was easy.

My take on this subject. I agree with some that said, sure it's nice to see "Great Work"..but it's nicer when there's more to the line, such as good job on the lights, or the textures, etc. The same goes with the "constructive critism".."I think maybe if you tried this or that..". I like your work is much different from I don't like your work. And it's not a thing about "if it's good for the goose"...I don't like your work, doesn't do anything. Each and everyone of us has our own tastes in what we like in art. If we posted "I don't like your work" on the pieces that we didn't like, guess what folks (more for shonner). Each of our pieces would have at LEAST several of those comments. We all know there are folks out there that don't like our work, but it's nice to know that somewhere in out there amoung the 100.000's of peoples, someone likes what you are doing. I think maybe Shonner needs to learn the difference between constructive and destructive. Did it ever occur to you to just say "Hun, I think you got this style down pat..maybe it's time to open your wings and try something new, I bet you would be good at it..etc etc etc" Get it yet? MUCH better than calling it Walmart Crap. Some people are just afraid to try something new, hanging on to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude. Constructive encouragement usually helps break them out of that mold. Just my 2 cents

dialyn wrote: "If you tell me every single graphic I do stinks ("Your stuff sucks") that is your personal opinion. Say it. Get on with your life. But don't keep attacking me with it. Say it once and if you don't have anything else useful to say, move on. What I don't get is why someone would repeatedly attack a particular artist on the galleries with such vague comments." Now that's a perverse fan that does that kind of stuff.

Turtle I am sorry I came across this post so late .. I very much enjoy your work , and as someone who has followed your progress from the early days on ID to here I can only say that I have notice a HUGE amount growth in it, and that's a joy to watch.

StormyGal wrote: "I think maybe Shonner needs to learn the difference between constructive and destructive. Did it ever occur to you to just say 'Hun, I think you got this style down pat..maybe it's time to open your wings and try something new, I bet you would be good at it..etc etc etc' Get it yet? MUCH better than calling it Walmart Crap. Some people are just afraid to try something new, hanging on to 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' attitude. Constructive encouragement usually helps break them out of that mold." Did I destroy someone? Did I tell someone how to do their artwork? Did I bad-mouth Wal*Mart? Did I say someone is afraid of something? What mold are you referring to?

To Laurie S: I visited your Gallery just now. The use of shadows and dark spaces in your work stunned me. The lighted areas near or on your subject matter was handled extremely well. Your characters have the appearance of thinking beings fill with wonder as well as sorrow. I'm very much interested in what they're going to do next in the scene. I'm a big Michael Parkes fan from way back. It was cool what you did with the Sky Scape images. My friend's daughter also liked them (she's a dancer). Good stuff indeed.

Glad you enjoyed your visit Shonner.. but I have to say that had you visited when I first started using Poser I think you would have had a much different experience.. Stepping up on the soap box... ( don't groan, you didn't HAVE to open the door ;-) I was lucky, Bill Munns and Elusion both found and critiqued my work early on, and I learned a lot from them ..I still learn a lot from them , and have a long way to go ..BUT the critiques they gave, while pointing out weaknesses were also filled with encouragement, and never disdainful .. I agree that artists can grow by hearing both the good and the bad about ones work.. however I also have to say that I think a person can be set back and more or less frozen from receiving a critique that makes the artist feel that it comes not from a genuine whish to help but more from a whish to undermine. You sound like you have some background in art ..it would be wonderful to share that , but if you share it in a way that is hurtful to the recipient then it is a waste of your time and a potential set back to the person receiving it .. Sorry Shonner .. I know it was a bit underhanded to start yapping at ya when all you did was enjoy a visit to my gallery .. It is just that while I have never gotten to know Turtle personally I have watched as she struggle with Poser in the beginning .. and then watched as she began to really get a grip on the program, I hate to see someone who worked that hard get hurt.

No prob.

I heard my name whispered through the ether so I just had to check it out- thanks for the compliment, BTW, SHONNER - ;) but I'll reserve comment on my own artwork! Just to stick my own oar in, I think I agree with most of what's being said. I love getting constructive criticism, 'cos if I take note I know I'll improve faster - or at least get a handle on what other people like, even if I don't agree with it. However, it annoys me to see a pic marked down without a reason being given (or with the comment "awesome pic!") or given an "excellent" followed by list of things that are wrong with it. If a person can't bring themselves to rate / comment properly then I can't see why they bother at all. If I want to gauge how good a piece is, I submit it to raph.com. I work on anything over 2 accepts as being good, and that's out of 21!!! I have a long, long way to go!!! :)