Have been following the Photoshop Gurus contest at photoshopworld.com. I was wondering if there is any such Bryce Gurus contest? If there isnt can we organise one here at Renderosity? To see how Bryce may be stretched to the limits and where the best of the best Brycians world over participate? What Say folks? Agent Smith?

I'm up for such a contest. the prize to me will bein the sharing and learning such a venture could afford us as Brycers.

but the contest is opened only for Gurus or the entry will be free? In the first case who decide who is a Guru? Great idea btw. cheers

Nice idea I support the idea. But what are the rules for being Guru? Am I a Guru?

How about a quarterly contest. I pulled about ten buildings and 20 people out of my Atlantis entry. I just couldn't wait 2 days for each render to reposition or try different skys, up the haze, etc. Iv'e been pulling back from making anything really big. If I knew I had more than a month I might try something more ambitious.

What about a Bryce slander contest, yet again this week I had to read through a rundown of the best 3D software, only to see bryce restricted to being a Landscape renderer! Arrrgh! The themes could be based on what they say Bryce can't do, then we could show them how wrong they are! It's all about ingenuity and creativity. Not "how big is my software". Oh dear! another rant. oops!.

This is an interesting idea, but there are a lot of questions to sort out about who is a guru and how would a guru contest compare to the monthly challenge. Some people are killer modellers, but when they build a scene, it doesn't look as good as something made by someone with a good eye for composition and that leaves out all the people who really work the textures over. Also, would such a contest allow any postwork or imports from other programs at all? If so, does that mean someone is a Bryce guru or just good with lots of programs? I like the idea of allowing more time to participate in this contest, if we have it. I also like the idea of trying to provide each other with more answers (although I always see plenty of information here). Perhaps we could give a list of suggested information to include about any submission. For example: What version of Bryce, what parts are from elsewhere or were done in postwork, any nifty tricks you used to achieve an effect. A lot of people are good about including this, I often forget, but it is useful information to have. Lin

The photoshop world Guru contest is; -free. -open to anyone. and, what's kind of wierd...if you win...you get a guitar. Guitar? How about a new (bad ass) monitor? Or even plugins This is a good idea, yet somewhat a duplicate of the Monthly Challenge and even the Bryce Hot 20. But what I do like about it, is to have it every two-three months to allow for greater entries. Also, the idea to have say, a journal with each picture to describe how each entry was made.

I think it's the competition that would prove who is a guru, not that only gurus would be allowed to enter! :) I think it's a good idea. The forum is great for hints and tips, and the monthly challenge is a bit of fun, but, speaking personally, I am lazy and need a kick in the ass to produce anything remotely worthwhile. I'll knock out something for the challenge in 40 minutes, because it's just something to do and I don't care a jot whether I come first or last. The same with the Hot 20, I don't care whether any of my stuff is there or not - it's just interesting to look at. A real competition, though... Hmmm. I like the sound of it. We could see some really good stuff coming out of that... Who would be the judges? The admins? But I don't want a guitar. I wouldn't mind a pair of fake breasts or a rubber chicken, though.

Personally, I think that that one contest a month is fine. And the fact that the name implies a level above the rest isn't a good idea. If you want another contest, why not call it Another Bryce Challenge. As far as what you need need in order to make anything worthwhile, I don't know. It seems to me that the monthly challenge has produced some spectacular images from a large range of people. If your good, or a Guru as it were, most people would recognize it by your work, whether it's a monthly challenge or just plain posting.

I'm not really opposed to the idea, in fact if you want to have a larger challenge with real prizes, I think that you will see a better effort from everyone involved. But not limiting to who may enter, and I think a different name other than Guru. Have it quarterly, throw in some specific rules, a few prizes, and away you go. I actually think that the Monthly Challenge could do the same if there were actual prizes offered. Some say you can never have too many Challenges or Contests, but I think you run the risk of dilution of resources if this gets out-of-hand. Even when it comes to having time to the forum to help people out.

Just my thought, for whatever it's worth. And if you were to ask my wife, she would tell you I think too much sometimes.

Stuie

Aye, a free contest is a free contest! I'm currently duking it out with Masema overwho can produce a more convincing Shadar Logoth, a project that is now taking me months instead of weeks. I considered even bending the rules between us, and exporting actual sections of the city straight from WOTedit and into Bryce, but that's the cheap way out... To push oneself, that's the key... I'm all about sharing, but I probably only post 1 out of every 20 images I make. Perfectionism has kept me from all of the monthly contests, and procrastination! Perhaps just have a quarterly contest? Three months, and AgentSmith and clay can duke it out for the first topic?

Ooooooooooooooooooo......lol. Like an actual fight? Hmmm...can't tell how big he is from his photo's....but than again he lives in Missouri, I live in Los Angeles, long way to go to duke it out. I could sharpen my Bryce CD into an edged weapon, lash it to a stick, use that on'em. AgentSmith

Hey AgentSmith, As Bryce-users we are all a bit computer nerd (in a positive way). Why don't we act as computernerds and fight over the internet? I had a little virus-war with some friends from school once. It was quite funny. We knew that we could receive a (non-multiplying and non-spreading) virus at any moment in every bit of data that came on our computer. So we where constantly on quard. The most important rule was 'If you hit first you win'. We had to be really sneaky to get the virus on the computer of the opponent but we also had to program the viruses our selves and make sure that they would be non-destructive to other computers. Sadly the war ended without a winner, we just gave up after a while, but it was fun. There where some sneaky tricks used to try and get the viruses on the right computer.

Uh.........no.

lol....I know you're just jokin'...right? I do(seudo)pc repair in my spare time, most of the time the only thing I am doing is retrieving/saving files, then completely wiping out and re-installing someone's PC, because they had a virus. And, this always happenes because of one of two things. They opened an e-mail from someone they didn't know or, they manually disabled their Mcafee/Norton from running, because it made their pc run slow... Uh, but please no viruses at Renderosity...please. AgentSmith

While Clay and Agentsmith fight it out with or without cyber-critters, let me clarify a few things about a Gurus contest (going by Photoshop Gurus contest). - Anybody can participate. It is on winning the particular category or the overall contest that the title of Guru is conferred on the contestant. - There is no entry fee, but only attendees to the Photoshop Convention can participate. Now convention cost is itself $$$. Im all for a free contest. - The Gurus contest is held twice a year. We could do the same for Bryce Gurus contest. - There are quite a few categories for the photoshop contest. We can also have a few categories in the Bryce contest, viz. Best Scenery, 100% Bryce, Best Bryce Illustration and an overall winner. - There has to be a prize. Electric Guitar, rubber chicken, mammary substitute, monitor, cash prize whichever...but it has to be a prize people will aspire towards and bring out the best in them, along with a memento, not to mention shippable to any part of the globe. - The panel of judges will have to be community-recognised people. Susan Kitchen? Conan Hunter? Clay? A few things will have to be sorted out. Under whose aegis will the contest take place? There are quite a few Bryce communities other then Renderosity eg. Brycetech, Bryce Forum etc. Its only when all are included, will this be truly a contest worth its salt. The modalities of course will have to be worked out! Can we form a team of 3-4 individuals who can work out the contest requirements and modalities, with the community chipping in? Agentsmith, Brycetech, Clay are people who come to mind along with Audre and her organisational skills. The last Bryce contest we had in Renderosity was in Nov last year. Time we shook things up? What say folks?

Well, I'm always up for a Pepsi challenge with anyone! Count me in!

A guitar is a really original price, but I don't think I'd use it to often. But if it was a violin or viola from Antonio Stradivarius or Guiseppe Guarneri I'd make the best scene anyone will ever make with Bryce. (even if it needs 3 years to render) :)

Ray, what about a vintage Fender or Les Paul? They are not in the Stradivari league, but are worth at least a year of rendering. :-) Humorix, would the other Bryce communities accept the rules etc without them participating in the decisions about the contest? How can we ensure that they do participate? I'd recommend an ad hoc forum at Yahoo, except that they are filthy spammers. Any other "neutral" place where there people could talk? A closed or open mailing list? Anybody can host a mailing list somewhere?

Alright...let me make the official inquiries (to a lot of people). There is a ton of stuff to take into consiration. I might even have an idea on where to lay my hands on a prize...I'll try to flesh out what you guys have mentioned here this weekend, get the info to different people, see what they say and think (and see if they can get their hands on a better prize than me!) Hang on (and keep suggesting) AgentSmith

Realize that contests with prizes usually do NOT allow; *No pre-made models - which means NO models from Poser/Zygote/Daz. Any and all models would have to be made originally and from scratch by each artist. Models could be created in other modeling programs, taken into Poser for assembly and posing and then taken into Bryce, but the artist would have to have files on hand for proof of this. *Textures could not include ones available for download, they would have to be original textures made by the artist within Bryce, a 2D photo-editing program, or photo textures of photos taken by the artist. Materials that come with the actual Bryce program would be allowed. Photo textures laid onto 2D faces would not be allowed. Bryce renders laid onto 2D faces would be allowed. *No models, textures, or renders allowed that had been previously used in the artists gallery, whether here at Renderosity or elsewhere. *Compositing renders together in 2D programs are allowed, but post-work on the finished picture is to kept to a minimum. *Any and all files used in creating the reneders should be kept on hand for submission, if needed. -------------- Like I said...this is the usual, just giving you an idea to how difficult it could be. AgentSmith

This sounds like a fun one. I suggest 100% Bryce only. No imports of any kind. Afterall, it is a Bryce contest, right? Show the true power of Bryce!

I'm up for it! Thanks for looking into this idea AgentSmith :)

bikermouse needs a new left handed guitar. Doubt I could win but it sounds like fun . . .

Left-handed guitar, hmmmmm...how about software for left handers? (oh, and right handers, too) ;oFeedback is enthusiastic...looks like this contest could become real....

I agree with Spike on the subject of imports. At what percentage does an image remain Bryce?, 80%, 50%, 10%? There is large scope for making models in Bryce, it just calls for a bit of hard work and ingenuity. I am against postwork as well! unless we call this the Mixed Medium Guru contest. Either it is Bryce or it is not! If other artists are like me? ,there will be tools and buttons in Bryce that have yet to be explored for their full potential, the features in Bryce are many and various and in some cases hidden!. Time to reveal them to the world. I do a lot of abstract stuff in Bryce and wonder if there should be a few categories so as to spread the field? Sci-fi, Landscape etc. A good prize would be for Corel to create a Spline tool for everyone to download, with an Extrude tool for second prize. Any ideas for a third? Cheers.

It would be great if a bit of compositing postwork would be alowed. When you make very complex scenes the hardware decides what's the limit of your scene. If a scene gets too complicated it just won't load on some machines. I've seen the problem on my own system. I had to buy more RAM and a bigger harddisk before Bryce loaded the scene again. With the old hardware the system just chrashed. Hardware limimits would not really fit the idea of a Guru contest. Guru's work on the edge of their software, not their hardware. (or at least that's my vision on the title of Guru)

Guru - it means you'll never say you're out of memory. :-) Ray, I don't think that every Guru has the latest processor and zillions of megs of memory and hard disk. Yes, they have to have a reasonable configuration, but still ...

Erlik: That's exactly what I mean. The Guru's use tricks to work around the limits of their hardware and/or software. That's what makes them stand out above the rest. And one of those tricks for bryce is rendering only parts of the scene at a time and compositing the complete image/animation in another (often 2D) app. It can save days of rendertime and it can allow for making much more detailed and complex scenes wich would normally be impossible due to things like lack of memory. That's why I think there must be some compositing postwork allowed.

I don't have zillions of megs of RAM and I always have less money to spend on hardware and software than I wish for. But hey, who hasn't got this problems? ;)

I consider compositing (using bryce mask render) as something necessary for complex scenes, it got to be allowed. Anyway A real bryce challenge should be 100% bryce, compositing allowed, That's the way I work for every Bryce contest. Then.. when does the Bryce Guru challenge will start... and who's gonna decide of the topic? Another question.. Bryce 5 has metaballs, soft shadows, tree lab... Bryce 4 doesn't.. It should be taken in consideration for the votes. Cheers Pidjy

Yup, LOTS of things to work out...give us a little time here to iron things out. We'll see if the higher-ups can come up with a great topic. I think outside ideas for a topic(s) might be better this time out. As far as when it starts, have no idea, this thing is still growing its legs. If it is to be as big as you guys want it, this is going to take some planning. One of the big things is the prizes. Aquire the prizes...and they will come. Right now other mod's and admin's are giving me advice right and left, gotta work it all out. Bryce 4 vs. Bryce 5? Watch...some person with Bryce 3 will come outta nowhere and kick everybody's butt. I realize 5 has abilities 4 doesn't, but which way to go? I mean if it is made that only Bryce 5 people can play, that's unfair. The same goes if only Bryce 4 people could enter. So, fair or unfair...any version of Bryce will have to be allowed. I remember the "Win Bryce 5" contest. Even though people who already had Bryce 5 were allowed to enter...(grumble, lol), the one who won, used Bryce 4, and they didn't win because of soft shadows, or metaballs. Compositing. That will have to be hashed out, not sure how much of what kind will be allowed. There may have to be catagories, in fact it's almost completely neccesary with all the different types of artists out there. Superior hardware will never talent. Yes, more ram means bigger scenes. Faster cpu means faster render. But that's it. I can say, (with no offense) "Get over it, and learn your Bryce". I'm personally not the best example, but...all but the first 5 pics in my gallery were made in Bryce 4 on a Pentium 1, 200mhz cpu, 32mb of ram, and a 1mb video card, I kid you not. Now, I'm not the most "artistic" brycer, I'm more technical, but Bryce can still do GREAT things with little power. But, it does take plannning and knowing your Bryce. Understand you don't HAVE to have The highest res terrains and textures on EVERY object in your scene, it really helps. I want, what I'm sure you want; a fun kick-butt contest with prizes, lol. But, this is also a great opportunity to get desperate and learn things about your Bryce (and yourself)you never knew you could do. Any good Bryce abilities I've aquired was directly because of this Forums Monthly challenge. It created a deadline that I had to meet with only what I had, which was a lame pc and the result HAD to be pure bryce with no post-work. It can be done. AgentSmith

Just a thought...how about calling the prize a Debbie? There is an Oscar, an Emmy, a Grammy, a Tony...etc. It would be a nice way to keep alive the memory of one who championed the cause of Bryce so effectively. What say folks?

Another thought! What will the Debbie (trophy) be designed by? Will it be design by booleans? By Metaballs? By Terrain editor? By Multirepplication? And then again who'll design it? Or do we have a contest for it?

Talking about prizes...how about a cash prize of $5000 :-P. Well no harm in wishful thinking! ;-) But if we got that then we would have a GURU'S CONTEST!!!! If there is a software prize, wouldn't it make sense to have a software which complements Bryce..eg. Rhino? Doesn't make much sense giving a Brycer a copy of Bryce which he/she would have gone for any way. The Vue-esprit contest has Vue-esprit as prize only for people who submit their image in Vue!! Doesn't that have redundancy built in??? Well more thoughts cooking...and will post it as soon as they get baked.

and Agentsmith...talking abt the Win Bryce 5 contest..Agor won tht 'cos of a lot of grass (I'm talking DXF imports here, not inspiration inhales) and I got a second for booleaning my way through ;-) But if somebody had to beat with Bryce 3 it would have to be booleans and terrain editors. But in case you all have seen www.deeptextures.deamon.co.uk, you'd know how kickass Bryce3 can be! Even at 100% Bryce!

Attached Link: http://www.mindscenes.com/goldentori/bryce_forum_golden_tori_awards.html

There used to be the Golden Torii awards before. Thought this might serve as useful referance!

Attached Link: www.deeptextures.demon.co.uk

Yeah, it makes sense to have prizes that would compliment Bryce, that's what I'm shooting for anyways. But hey, if you don't want to win Bryce 6 Pro, I'll just take it off the list... Yup, there should be a graphic "trophy" to go along with the prize(s). Let me find out first if we can legaly use the word "guru" in the contest. "Agor won because of a lot of grass"? Oh...it wasn't because of talent or vision (or inspiration)? It was because of dxf imports? Whew...glad you straightened out on that one...:o/ Well, some of the best art I have seen wasn't great (or won contests) because it HAD to have booleans or terrains. It was great because the artist channeled their talent through what tools they had available to them at the time. Talent makes the artist, not the number of polys in the art. Prize(s) in this contest will be software. Yeah...Rhino would be the crowned jewel of prizes (at $900), can't hurt to try. I remember the Golden Tori Award. A bit dated now, the winners pictures aren't even available for viewing anymore, shame. Your link for Lester has an extra "a" in it (demon) Great site for terrain modeling tutorial. Keep suggesting (everyone)! AgentSmith

I'm all for keeping it simple, but one thing that I think would need clarifying - what about textures / bump maps / trans maps etc. drawn in a paint package and imported into Bryce? IMO these should be allowed and unlimited, otherwise you're excluding many of Bryce's native functions - after all, everyone has SOME type of paint package to work with, no? Just thought it would need to be made clear.

I hear ya, all being taken into consideration. I myself use textures I make in Photoshop.

Some more thoughts: Since Agentsmith is working on the prize as well as the general contest, I wonder if I can add a few more thoughts on the same. Firstly, when we think up a prize, let's keep in mind that its not just for an upcoming contest but something that will be sustainable over coming contests and remain constant, if not improve. If the contest has to be held twice a year (the way PS Gurus is), the next release of Bryce might not be available by then! Also when one thinks up the prize, can it be made to stand up over general Renderosity contests, 3dluver contest or other net contests? Something, which will make people, really aspire towards. It might not be useful, but a guitar as a prize does make the contest special and over time has provided a stand-alone recognition. Am I being too ambitious in terms expectations? Maybe because here is the chance of starting off something which will really be a milestone for the Bryce community. I feel there are three things, which will contribute towards the success of the contest: - The prize or the stature associated with the prize. Maybe we could get creative with it. - The Judges associated with the contest. Imagine having Doug Chiang or some other Digital Art Guru judging! - The contest structured in such a manner which will be perceived as something which stands above any net community and is perceived as a generic event and accessible to all Bryce artists. Possible collaboration with other Bryce Forums and communities might make this more acceptable and who knows might overtime develop into a full fledged Bryce convention somewhere down the line! I guess Agent Smith will have the time of his life dealing with hurdles which are bound to crop up doing something of a certain magnitude, so I do wish him the very best! P.S. Never underestimate the power of grass ;-)!

Well, if you are going to insist that it be "100% Bryce" with no imported objects or anything like that, then to be Honest, it should be named the "Bryce Purists' Quarterly Challenge." You do understand that if you do insist on "100% Bryce" you are naturally excluding a lot of people who haven't already developed advanced modeling skills with metaballs/booleans. And if it's going to be "100% Bryce", WHY should textures made in any other program be allowed? Requiring everything to be done with only procedural textures is not the tiniest bit more restrictive/excluding of people than requiring any and all objects to be exclusively created in Bryce. ($.02)

Oh, I'm going over and over ALL those battles in trying to iron out the rules. I can understand all the arguments, and myself am leaning towards allowing more than restricting. It may not be up to me though...If I can get Corel involved, they may have something to say about it. Those example rules up there are JUST that, an example. They are not what we are going on. But, one thing. Let's talk imports, if someone imports an awesome free mesh from 3D Cafe, and wins...how is that gonna make the losers that spent weeks building a model inside of Bryce feel? There are a lot of sides to consider, lots of consequences to look out for. But, like I said...I myself would rather allow more things than restrict. I feel it would bring more entries in and make the entries that much better. But, how far do we go (allow)? AgentSmith

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=252113

- "You do understand that if you do insist on "100% Bryce" you are naturally excluding a lot of people who haven't already developed advanced modeling skills with metaballs/booleans." - That's what the Gurus' Contest is all about! After all, I don't feel bad about not being able to compete in the Grand Prix 'cos I'm not that good at controlling an F1 McClaren. ;) But flippancy aside, I think the idea is just to prevent some people having an unfair advantage over others. That means the guys with access to 5K-worth of modelling s/w, or those who've spent days (and s) downloading meshes designed by someone else, etc. But most people have a 2D paint prog knocking about, so IMO that should be allowed (although it wouldn't bother me if it wasn't - the Bryce Purists Contest sounds like a good idea). Bryce is great because you needn't know every little function in order to produce a decent image. I posted on the forum last week-ish because I couldn't get multi-replicate to work. The attached link is my first attempt at modelling using MR (although I still can't use it very well!) - no booleans, no metaballs, just spheres. It's not great, I admit, but it shows how modelling in Bryce can be simple with a bit of lateral thinking!

Whatever you all decide is ok with me. My idea is that if you make a model from scratch you should be able to use it whether it's made in max, carrara or booleened in Bryce. I'm so confused , - TJ

Well tuttle, you do have a point since it's supposed to be a "gurus/purists" challenge. I guess I'm just a little touchy on that subject because so far in all the time I've been a member, EVERY single time some idea for a Bryce challenge and/or contest has come up, there's always some (usually the same several IIRC) that want it to be "pure" Bryce - which to me just seems to be a way of saying "Let's exclude as many people as possible from this challenge and set it so only a few select persons can play." I could be wrong, but it's always given me that impression - rather strongly.

I understand not wanting to exclude people, but if it is a Bryce oriented challenge, how are you excluding people by asking them to make heavy use of the program that the contest is based on? Are you a Bryce guru if you can make a terrific render of objects and textures you created in other programs?

It is a bit hard not having access to, much less any skill in other software that might allow me (or others) to make a better creation than what I can do with just B4.

On the other hand, my artist skills aren't up (yet) to recreating what my imagination comes up with in any medium, so pure Bryce or not, I'm not up for a guru title any time soon.

Well, maybe/perhaps the members who want Pure Bryce Challenges are the ones who are better at modeling in Bryce. But, I can assure you it's not to exclude anyone. I am quite sure it is their desire to help further the skills of everyone. And, to challenge themselves. (Here's my old chestnut story) Long story made short...I won a monthly challenge, some members pointed out the fact that my picture was just a Poser figure rendered in Bryce. (which...yes it was) So, I made a commitment to enter the next challenge using pure Bryce only, no postwork and I did so. AND...ANY real skills I have today with Bryce was because of that pure Bryce I made myself do. It was amazing what came out of me in those few weeks. Anyway, this isn't a hidden mesage that the new contest will be pure Bryce, I was just joining in the discussion, is all. AgentSmith

Well then, if "Pure Bryce" is so important, why allow ANYTHING made in ANY other program at all? *** OK. Here's a REAL challenge to the "Pure Brycers" - let's see a "believably realistic" image of a person and/or animal (real species) done exclusively in Bryce (Primitives, booleans, etc.), using ONLY Bryce procedural textures - NO imported image maps. Try THAT for your first "Pure Bryce" challenge. Anybody who can do that will definitely have me burning incense in front of his/her/its picture as a certifiable 3DGod. Who needs to be a mere guru when you can be deified? ***** Agentsmith, I do see your point about the learning - and I will admit that in THIS particular context you are probably right. Just be sure to call it the "Bryce Purists' Challenge" so people know exactly what's happening here. Like I said, it just pushed a button when I saw this come up AGAIN - as it has for every single Bryce contest/challenge/anything-at-all I have seen since first joining the online art community. Anybody know where I can get a locking cover for that damned button?

Oh, and for the animal - nothing pathetically easy like an earthworm which could be done just by replicating spheres/metaballs along a path, I mean something like a dog, cat, elephant, crocodile, etc. -- something with 'features.' Howzzat fer' a "challenge"?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=186014

You asked for it. Something like this? Pure Bryce, all metaballs. The finished product is at the link which was one of the entries for a 100% Bryce challenge. That is the key word "challenge". The point is to challenge yourself and push the program and your imagination to the limit. Importing G2H maps and textures created in image editors I think is ok. Importing a model YOU made in another program I'm kinda on the fence about it. On the one hand it still requires skill to model (and making people in Bryce is almost impossible though I'm still working on my character that I started) but lighting and textures are what really make a model shine so I think using Poser or some other modeling program would be ok as long as it's your model and not something you downloaded, with the exception of Poser perhaps.